Reich on Wentz

[Four2itus]

Seriously? Ballard and Reich are doing a wonderful job of building the Colts. They will not get let go, fired, or moved on from because of Wentz's performance. That said, Carson is gonna kill it. All will be good. 

[Zoltan]

On 5/19/2021 at 8:18 PM, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Actually, Reich preferred Rivers returning over acquiring Wentz.

 

https://www.sportscasting.com/if-frank-reich-gets-his-way-the-colts-wont-be-trading-for-carson-wentz/

 

He never said that, the article was referencing a media day in January where he said he wanted Rivers to be his QB next season, then on the very next question J. Erickson asks can that change after talking to Ballard and Irsay and he answered Yes, that can change. There was no mention of Wentz. 

 

[Valpo2004]

On 5/22/2021 at 3:09 AM, NewColtsFan said:

Honestly, I’m on the other side of the spectrum in this one.  
 

I don’t think Wentz bet his job at all.   Because the cost to acquire Wentz wasn’t very high.  The franchise isn’t hurt if CE doesn’t work out as it would be if we had traded an even bigger haul of picks for a drafted QB and the draft pick doesn’t work out.   That would be much worse.  
 

I think Reich and Ballard are joined at the hip on Wentz.   Ballard has been talking up Wentz more and more of late and CB has also talked up Reich of late.  Reich is about to get signed to a new long-term contract in the next few months and I don’t see Reich being the fall guy if Wentz doesn’t work out.  But after Reich did so well with Luck and Rivers,  I think Ballard LOVES Reich and strongly believes in him. 
 

I don’t see Ballard throwing Reich under the bus if he can’t resurrect Wentz.  
 

 

 

They amount they traded for him is why I think Ballard could survive Wentz busting.

 

I'm not sure Reich could because if Wentz busts than the Colts are probably going to have a couple bad seasons which would almost certainly at the very least put Reich in the hotseat.

 

 

[07dleigh]

On 5/22/2021 at 3:39 PM, Four2itus said:

Seriously? Ballard and Reich are doing a wonderful job of building the Colts. They will not get let go, fired, or moved on from because of Wentz's performance. That said, Carson is gonna kill it. All will be good. 

 

Yeah I'm confused as to where this notion that Frank's seat is even warm is coming from? It's not and it shouldn't be. 

[Superman]

43 minutes ago, 07dleigh said:

 

Yeah I'm confused as to where this notion that Frank's seat is even warm is coming from? It's not and it shouldn't be. 

 

There's an anti Reich sentiment among some fans. I disagree with that sentiment.

 

But Reich still has to prove that he is the guy for a championship contender. I said the same about Pagano. It's one thing to coach a team to the playoffs, even to win a couple playoff games. It's another to contend with the conference heavyweights, and eventually get to the Super Bowl. That's another tier. 

[PRnum1]

How the Colts plan to take pressure off of Carson Wentz

 

"Reich told reporters Wednesday. “Believe me, I understand that when you have a quarterback that can escape and is mobile like Carson, we’re going to take advantage of that, and he’ll create some plays like that. But we’re concentrating on running the football, we’re concentrating on a good play-action game to keep the defenses off balance, we’re going to concentrate on a rhythm-passing game to get it out quick.”

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/colts-plan-pressure-off-carson-202846032.html

[EastStreet]

30 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

How the Colts plan to take pressure off of Carson Wentz

 

"Reich told reporters Wednesday. “Believe me, I understand that when you have a quarterback that can escape and is mobile like Carson, we’re going to take advantage of that, and he’ll create some plays like that. But we’re concentrating on running the football, we’re concentrating on a good play-action game to keep the defenses off balance, we’re going to concentrate on a rhythm-passing game to get it out quick.”

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/colts-plan-pressure-off-carson-202846032.html

It's gonna be a conservative O at minimum early. Slow roll with Wentz. 

 

That said, with the some of the teams we play early, it's likely we get punched in the mouth early, and need to abandon some of the conservative stuff.

[CoachLite]

19 hours ago, EastStreet said:

It's gonna be a conservative O at minimum early. Slow roll with Wentz. 

 

That said, with the some of the teams we play early, it's likely we get punched in the mouth early, and need to abandon some of the conservative stuff.

Playing conservatively may be seen as a vote of 'no confidence'. Play as you normally would.

[EastStreet]

20 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

Playing conservatively may be seen as a vote of 'no confidence'. Play as you normally would.

I think Reich, and his scheme in general is more conservative than most, so would not associate it really with "no confidence". He'll be a little more conservative than normal to start the year, but that's understandable given Wentz's 2020, and simply the fact he's new to the team and system. I anticipate we'll have to go off script early anyway given some of the teams we play. For instance, doubt we'll be able to pound the rock and be single threaded vs the Rams.

[NewColtsFan]

On 5/25/2021 at 8:42 AM, Superman said:

 

There's an anti Reich sentiment among some fans. I disagree with that sentiment.

 

But Reich still has to prove that he is the guy for a championship contender. I said the same about Pagano. It's one thing to coach a team to the playoffs, even to win a couple playoff games. It's another to contend with the conference heavyweights, and eventually get to the Super Bowl. That's another tier. 

And because there is another tier I too wonder a bit about Frank.   Don’t get me wrong, I love the guy and how the players respond to him.  Glad he’s our head coach. 
 

But as you advance further in the playoffs,  Frank’s head scratching decisions stand a good chance of not working.   Better teams have better coaches, better players, better difference makers.   So when you lose a post-season game by 3, and you elected to go for a touchdown instead of a field goal and it didn’t work, you might want to consider passing up a field goal in a 3-point loss wasn't the best call.  
 

I’d hate to see Frank Reich become Chuck Knox 2.0.   A great coach who often made curious decisions in the biggest playoff games and he never reached the Super Bowl. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

And because there is another tier I too wonder a bit about Frank.   Don’t get me wrong, I love the guy and how the players respond to him.  Glad he’s our head coach. 
 

But as you advance further in the playoffs,  Frank’s head scratching decisions stand a good chance of not working.   Better teams have better coaches, better players, better difference makers.   So when you lose a post-season game by 3, and you elected to go for a touchdown instead of a field goal and it didn’t work, you might want to consider passing up a field goal in a 3-point loss wasn't the best call.  
 

I’d hate to see Frank Reich become Chuck Knox 2.0.   A great coach who often made curious decisions in the biggest playoff games and he never reached the Super Bowl. 

Chuck Knox is a nice blast from the past. Great Regular Season head coach but like you said when it came to the playoffs he had some head scratching decisions. Much like Don Coryell and Marty ball. Hopefully Frank doesn't fall into that category and we win a SB.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 5/28/2021 at 2:44 PM, PRnum1 said:

How the Colts plan to take pressure off of Carson Wentz

 

"Reich told reporters Wednesday. “Believe me, I understand that when you have a quarterback that can escape and is mobile like Carson, we’re going to take advantage of that, and he’ll create some plays like that. But we’re concentrating on running the football, we’re concentrating on a good play-action game to keep the defenses off balance, we’re going to concentrate on a rhythm-passing game to get it out quick.”

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/colts-plan-pressure-off-carson-202846032.html

 

The colts don't have the Defense or the Defensive scheme to win playing a predictable conservative offense. This isn't the old NFL of yesteryear of winning low scoring  games consistently week in and week out. 

[Nickster]

On 5/20/2021 at 1:48 PM, gspdx said:

 

Or maybe Reich has more integrity than that.  Maybe rather than acting like a politician he is willing to say exactly what he thinks and risk his job on it.  I sure wish there were more people that would stick to their beliefs rather than make sure they have an escape hatch.

 

After 20 years in the military and several years teaching leadership I came to a few ideas on leadership.  Leaders don't have to be the smartest, best, etc.  I came up with two traits that I found bring people forward as natural leaders:

1. A leader won't ask others to do things they wouldn't do.
2. A leader demonstrates we are all in this together (in other words, the leader will go down with the team).

I think Reich is demonstrating qualities of a natural leader.  

People get burned and integrity doesn’t really pay.  Everyone lies.  I don’t like it, but it’s usually dumb to exceed a certain level of saying what you think.

 

I hate that about our culture but it’s there.  If Frank really thought JB was good, I have to question his judgement.  He was lying.

[Colt.45]

On 5/29/2021 at 3:56 PM, NewColtsFan said:

And because there is another tier I too wonder a bit about Frank.   Don’t get me wrong, I love the guy and how the players respond to him.  Glad he’s our head coach. 
 

But as you advance further in the playoffs,  Frank’s head scratching decisions stand a good chance of not working.   Better teams have better coaches, better players, better difference makers.   So when you lose a post-season game by 3, and you elected to go for a touchdown instead of a field goal and it didn’t work, you might want to consider passing up a field goal in a 3-point loss wasn't the best call.  
 

I’d hate to see Frank Reich become Chuck Knox 2.0.   A great coach who often made curious decisions in the biggest playoff games and he never reached the Super Bowl. 

Same question marks that plagued Andy Reid in Philly for years IIRC

Similar question marks plagued Marty Schott in San Diego, and even Tony Dungy was supposedly not 'elite' even till now.

I'm not putting Reich in that class yet but the guy is relatively new to head coaching, and has dealt with quite a few things already while still running a relatively stable ship. The playoff stuff is what it is, we will see in due time, i don't think i'd feel comfortable telling his story yet on that front.

[Colt.45]

On 5/29/2021 at 4:08 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Chuck Knox is a nice blast from the past. Great Regular Season head coach but like you said when it came to the playoffs he had some head scratching decisions. Much like Don Coryell and Marty ball. Hopefully Frank doesn't fall into that category and we win a SB.

That's the part of sports narratives that can be unfair. Guys get labeled and it sticks and can be very very hard to shake. Heck, #18 was labeled a regular season wonder like Dan Marino, the media doesn't care to analyze things past surface level. The stories are all that they want, and fans eat that stuff up. It's hard to win in the NFL.

[Superman]

On 5/29/2021 at 1:56 PM, NewColtsFan said:

And because there is another tier I too wonder a bit about Frank.   Don’t get me wrong, I love the guy and how the players respond to him.  Glad he’s our head coach. 
 

But as you advance further in the playoffs,  Frank’s head scratching decisions stand a good chance of not working.   Better teams have better coaches, better players, better difference makers.   So when you lose a post-season game by 3, and you elected to go for a touchdown instead of a field goal and it didn’t work, you might want to consider passing up a field goal in a 3-point loss wasn't the best call.  
 

I’d hate to see Frank Reich become Chuck Knox 2.0.   A great coach who often made curious decisions in the biggest playoff games and he never reached the Super Bowl. 

 

I'm not one that's worried about Reich's decision making in those situations. For every situation like you just described, there's another where you lose a game by 4 because you kicked the FG instead of going for a TD. As long as his process is sound and consistent, I'm good with the decisions. 

 

But there is a history of good coaches who make questionable game management decisions in pressure situations. Just off the top of my head, Marty Schottenheimer, Mike Tomlin, Andy Reid, etc.

 

My biggest concern is whether he's a good enough play caller to keep the offense in rhythm. I thought he was really good in the second half of the 2018 season, except for the Chiefs playoff game, but there have been a lot of changes since then. Now he has a really capable QB, and they have history together. So I expect to see Reich's very best this season.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not one that's worried about Reich's decision making in those situations. For every situation like you just described, there's another where you lose a game by 4 because you kicked the FG instead of going for a TD. As long as his process is sound and consistent, I'm good with the decisions. 

 

But there is a history of good coaches who make questionable game management decisions in pressure situations. Just off the top of my head, Marty Schottenheimer, Mike Tomlin, Andy Reid, etc.

 

My biggest concern is whether he's a good enough play caller to keep the offense in rhythm. I thought he was really good in the second half of the 2018 season, except for the Chiefs playoff game, but there have been a lot of changes since then. Now he has a really capable QB, and they have history together. So I expect to see Reich's very best this season.

 

Good post.   Thanks.

 

And to your very last sentence, I'd add this....   (and I've said it elsewhere here before...)

 

That however good the team of Reich and Wentz are this year,  I'm expecting them to be even better next year.   Another year in the system.    Another year with his teammates.    Another year away from Philly.    Another year to be comfortable in Indianapolis.     

 

I just see 2022 as being better all the way around than 2021.      At least, I sure hope I'm right.....     

[coming on strong]

On 5/29/2021 at 10:54 AM, EastStreet said:

I think Reich, and his scheme in general is more conservative than most, so would not associate it really with "no confidence". He'll be a little more conservative than normal to start the year, but that's understandable given Wentz's 2020, and simply the fact he's new to the team and system. I anticipate we'll have to go off script early anyway given some of the teams we play. For instance, doubt we'll be able to pound the rock and be single threaded vs the Rams.

The new oc seems to be a super aggressive guy . His schemes as head coach for cfl were chunk plays and a fast past offense. I wonder how it looks in the nfl because the cfl is a more spread out faster paced game in general with their rules . I wonder how it’s going to look different this year .

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Superman]

On 6/1/2021 at 1:55 AM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Good post.   Thanks.

 

And to your very last sentence, I'd add this....   (and I've said it elsewhere here before...)

 

That however good the team of Reich and Wentz are this year,  I'm expecting them to be even better next year.   Another year in the system.    Another year with his teammates.    Another year away from Philly.    Another year to be comfortable in Indianapolis.     

 

I just see 2022 as being better all the way around than 2021.      At least, I sure hope I'm right.....     

 

Yeah, same. As good as Luck looked at times in 2018, we all expected him to be even better the next year. That's what I'm thinking with Wentz. I think he has a high enough floor in 2021 that he shouldn't hold us back in any way (assuming he's not a shot fighter, and I don't think he is), but he should just get better moving forward.

 

I've also allowed for some excuses for Reich, due to the QB situation. But Wentz should be the guy for him. He can do it all, he knows the playbook, they have chemistry, and there should be nothing holding Reich back from being at his best, specifically as a play caller. And we all know how I feel about the HC being the primary play caller, but Reich is taking that job on, and he needs to nail it moving forward.

[bleevit]

One thing that I love about this Wentz deal is that the media are being very reserved in their opinion of him. That may allow the Colts to kind of "stay under the radar". This won't last long but with the degree of difficulty the Colts starting schedule, I'll take anything that helps. If Carson is fixable or better yet was never broken, the Colts should be a tough out this season. 

[bleevit]

On 6/1/2021 at 8:53 AM, coming on strong said:

The new oc seems to be a super aggressive guy . His schemes as head coach for cfl were chunk plays and a fast past offense. I wonder how it looks in the nfl because the cfl is a more spread out faster paced game in general with their rules . I wonder how it’s going to look different this year .

When I read your post about a fast paced game, the youth of the Colts may allow them to wear teams down a bit in the last half of the season. Their apparent work ethic should contribute to conditioning.

[DougDew]

A few thoughts:

 

I don't think Reich is conservative.  I don't think his offense is conservative.  Its not a down the field offense.  Its a ball control offense.  Reich believes that the best way to win ball games is to limit the number of possessions the opponent gets. He is not looking to score each play.  He's looking to get a first down each play.  He is aggressive about holding the ball, which is one reason why he goes for 4th down a lot.  That's not conservative, IMO.

 

In the Buffalo game, the conservative decision would have been to kick the FG and get the easy points.  Reich was more aggressive.  Against Allen and the Bills, it was the right decision.

 

If he kicks the FG, Buffalo gets the ball at the 25 yard line with 2 minutes and needing 40 yards to kick a tying FG.  The likely outcome of Reich kicking the FG was that we'd go into halftime in a push situation, each team scored 3 pts.

 

If he goes for it and fails, BUFF instead gets the ball on the 7 yard line with 2 minutes left to score 3 points needing about 60 yards.  And they won't be as aggressive starting from the 7 as they would if they were starting from the 25.  More time wasted.

 

Buffalo has a better chance of scoring 3 points in 2 minutes when getting the ball at the 25 than getting it at the 7.  So if you're going to score there, its best to try to score a TD first and increase your point differential by 4 before you give them the ball at the 25. 

 

But if you give it to them at the 7, the defense needs to keep them from scoring in order to keep the point differential the same as it was before you made the decision to go for it.  The defense failed, and failed miserably because it gave up a 93 yard TD drive in the last 2 minutes of the half.

 

Not thinking about it and just taking the 3 points is what a conservative HC would do.  That's Chuck Knox.

[EastStreet]

On 6/1/2021 at 8:53 AM, coming on strong said:

The new oc seems to be a super aggressive guy . His schemes as head coach for cfl were chunk plays and a fast past offense. I wonder how it looks in the nfl because the cfl is a more spread out faster paced game in general with their rules . I wonder how it’s going to look different this year .

I'd like to think we'll be more wide open than past years, but I wouldn't assume we'll be much different with Reich still calling plays.

[coming on strong]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I'd like to think we'll be more wide open than past years, but I wouldn't assume we'll be much different with Reich still calling plays.

the good thing about frank is he is not a micro manager and lets his coaches contribute .  i believe 100 percent he lets brady tinker with the scheme and add some of his own plays .   looking at film of bradys offenses in the past it gets me exited .,He is very creative scheme wise .   He loves deep shots early in games and has a good mix of  half back use  .  i wonder how much is the 3 down rules instead of 4 and the bigger field  in the cfl .   the cfl in general is a much more  aggressive /creative scheme wise  to make up for having to punt on 3rd down .

[EastStreet]

18 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

the good thing about frank is he is not a micro manager and lets his coaches contribute .  i believe 100 percent he lets brady tinker with the scheme and add some of his own plays .   looking at film of bradys offenses in the past it gets me exited .,He is very creative scheme wise .   He loves deep shots early in games and has a good mix of  half back use  .  i wonder how much is the 3 down rules instead of 4 and the bigger field  in the cfl .   the cfl in general is a much more  aggressive /creative scheme wise  to make up for having to punt on 3rd down .

We'll see. Given what we've heard from FR about our O this offseason, just don't see it. Hope I'm wrong. I'd absolutely love to see a few deep shots early every game.

[ipljeff]

The Wentz decision is going to cost Frank his job and waste two years of our young players. Reich is way to close to Wentz personally to be objective. I really hope I'm wrong, but damn Wentz stunk it up so bad he has to prove it on the field under pressure before I'm buying into the hype. Boy he looks good throwing against what?  If he couldn't look good now then he couldn't even be a college starter. Now Frank has to worry about his son on game day instead of coaching the game. This offseason has been very disappointing to me. But hey, we have cap space. 

[Dogg63]

I agree with a lot of this, but with modifications.

 

18 minutes ago, ipljeff said:

The Wentz decision is going likely to cost Frank his job and waste two years of our young players. Reich is appears to be way too close to Wentz personally to be objective. I really hope I'm wrong, but damn Wentz stunk it up so bad he has to prove it on the field under pressure before I'm buying into the hype.

 

Now Frank has to may worry about his son on game day instead of coaching the game. 

 

[cjwhiskers]

2 hours ago, ipljeff said:

The Wentz decision is going to cost Frank his job and waste two years of our young players. Reich is way to close to Wentz personally to be objective. I really hope I'm wrong, but damn Wentz stunk it up so bad he has to prove it on the field under pressure before I'm buying into the hype. Boy he looks good throwing against what?  If he couldn't look good now then he couldn't even be a college starter. Now Frank has to worry about his son on game day instead of coaching the game. This offseason has been very disappointing to me. But hey, we have cap space. 

I understand your reasoning and don’t disagree that it’s tough for Frank to be objective but this wasn’t his decision. Sure he had influence but both Ballard and Irsay are bought in. I honestly don’t think Ballard would’ve made this move if he wasn’t confident that it wouldn’t make us as good or better than last year. There’s a chance it could go either way but I think under the circumstances there is a great chance for it to be positive. 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, cjrulli said:

I understand your reasoning and don’t disagree that it’s tough for Frank to be objective but this wasn’t his decision. Sure he had influence but both Ballard and Irsay are bought in. I honestly don’t think Ballard would’ve made this move if he wasn’t confident that it wouldn’t make us as good or better than last year. There’s a chance it could go either way but I think under the circumstances there is a great chance for it to be positive. 

 

 

Ballard  did as much scouting on Wentz as Reich in 2016.  He also said it was a easy decision.  So Yep Ballard is bought in too.

[John Waylon]

3 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

I agree with a lot of this, but with modifications.

 

 

I dunno. Based on what Frank has said behind closed doors I could see it costing his job if it doesn’t work out. If he’s been making bold claims that he can indeed reform Wentz into an MVP candidate, or that he can win 10 games a year with Wentz or something along those lines and it doesn’t play out that way I don’t see any way not to move on from him. It’s not a good look if he can’t deliver with his own handpicked option. 
 

And I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Frank was definitely a proponent for making the move. I’m guessing of everyone in the organization Frank championed the move more than anyone. I don’t see him sitting down with Ballard and Irsay and only saying “Wentz, you say? Well yeah, that would probably be alright, and might work. Let’s try it.” There’s history there, and I’d be surprised if Frank was ever less than full gung-ho to make it happen. 

[Dogg63]

12 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

I dunno. Based on what Frank has said behind closed doors I could see it costing his job if it doesn’t work out. If he’s been making bold claims that he can indeed reform Wentz into an MVP candidate, or that he can win 10 games a year with Wentz or something along those lines and it doesn’t play out that way I don’t see any way not to they might move on from him. It’s not a good look if he can’t deliver with his own handpicked option. 
 

And I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Frank was definitely a proponent for making the move. I’m guessing of everyone in the organization Frank championed the move more than anyone. I don’t see him sitting down with Ballard and Irsay and only saying “Wentz, you say? Well yeah, that would probably be alright, and might work. Let’s try it.” There’s history there, and I’d be surprised if Frank was ever less than full gung-ho to make it happen. 

I agree completely, except as marked. I can see the Colts canning Reich - I just don't view that as the most likely outcome. I think odds are better that the Colts will consider a Wentz implosion as a Team Failure and keep Frank around because he's pretty solid in so many other areas.