Reich Coaching Decisions Post-game Takes(Mega Merge)

[hoosierhawk]

Just now, Colt.45 said:

Look around the league. Point me to that HC who doesn't have mistakes. I'll wait.

There are a lot of x-coaches that made the same mistakes over and over, I agree coaches make mistakes but most learn from them. Those that make the same mistakes but don't learn from them don't last long.

[chrisfarley]

3 hours ago, funktacious2 said:

My only issues with coaching today was indeed the failed challenges. That might be on Reich or it might be on a booth guy. But both seemed obviously to be correct calls to me, and that kills. But we still had a chance without them. I guess I also didn't like the run for the failed 2pt attempt either. 

 

Other than that I liked the playcalling today. I don't mind the 4th down attempts or the 2pt conversion idea. It's a shame we lost but I know the truth. No one issue lost us this game, we lose this game by a hair. 

Coming back from the commercial and seeing another time-out gone on the screen and then the announcer saying something about a challenge???????!!!!!!!!! , I was dumbfounded.  WHA???? 

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Look around the league. Point me to that HC who doesn't have mistakes. I'll wait.

You completely ignored what @hoosierhawk said. All coaches make mistakes. Reich admits when he makes mistakes (which is good and supposed to be the first step from learning from them), then he makes the same ones again and again and again. It's not even different mistakes from experimenting, it's the same ones from stubbornness over and over like he is going to prove his ways work. He is set in his ways and it is affecting the team negatively. We can't win a SB with him and he needs to go as soon as possible, preferably tomorrow while we can interview lots of good HC candidates.

[funktacious2]

1 minute ago, chrisfarley said:

Coming back from the commercial and seeing another time-out gone on the screen and then the announcer saying something about a challenge???????!!!!!!!!! , I was dumbfounded.  WHA???? 

Yeah, I definitely said "Oof" out loud.

[Colt.45]

2 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

There are a lot of x-coaches that made the same mistakes over and over, I agree coaches make mistakes but most learn from them. Those that make the same mistakes but don't learn from them don't last long.

 

Nah, those that lose dont last long. Actually in the NFL where coaches are cycled around, it happens for quite a few.

They all make mistakes including Bill B who is without peer in this league.

[Tsarquise]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You completely ignored what @hoosierhawk said. All coaches make mistakes. Reich admits when he makes mistakes (which is good and supposed to be the first step from learning from them), then he makes the same ones again and again and again. It's not even different mistakes from experimenting, it's the same ones from stubbornness over and over like he is going to prove his ways work. He is set in his ways and it is affecting the team negatively. We can't win a SB with him and he needs to go as soon as possible, preferably tomorrow while we can interview lots of good HC candidates.

What mistake does Reich keep making? 

[Moosejawcolt]

3 hours ago, runthepost said:

35 yard field goal shouldn’t be missed

Bingo

[Yoshinator]

1 hour ago, Sumo63 said:

I'm dying of stage 4 cancer.  Enjoy next year, I probably wont be here to debate fieldgoals.

Sorry to hear this my friend. Horrible news. I hope you can extend your life as much as possible and spend it in the best ways possible. Hopefully we see you on the forum for a very long time. Fight it as long as you can. God Bless! 

[Dingus McGirt]

Analytics:  Passing the coaching buck to a computer.  
 

Seems to perfectly mesh with Mr. Reich’s emotionless and stoic manner.  Very android-like.

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

Sometimes u learn more from a win then a loss. If the Colts would have won in spite of all their gaffes, we become ignorant and think we are almost there.  A loss like this can be a good thing. We have talent but need to step back and see some glaring holes.. 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Bingo

I agree. Haven't been impressed with Blank, although I admit some UGA fans have biased me.

 

But missing that FG was one of about 10 bad things. Reich was half of those things.

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You completely ignored what @hoosierhawk said. All coaches make mistakes. Reich admits when he makes mistakes (which is good and supposed to be the first step from learning from them), then he makes the same ones again and again and again. It's not even different mistakes from experimenting, it's the same ones from stubbornness over and over like he is going to prove his ways work. He is set in his ways and it is affecting the team negatively. We can't win a SB with him and he needs to go as soon as possible, preferably tomorrow while we can interview lots of good HC candidates.

LOL good HCs? Oh yeah? Like who? Chuck Pagano? 

 

I'll take a triple serving of Reich. Name this magical unicorn HC who doesn't make mistakes? You're talking of the same mistakes, they ALL do it. The one call that he made today that i disagree with 100% was the challenge. Everything else? Yeah, fair calls. Better execution and the story is different. We were in a game against a team that no one thought we had a chance against. A team with superior offensive talent, and we were a serious kicker away from tying or winning. With the offensive personnel few trotted out, I'll take that.

 

It wasn't weeks back that everyone thought Hilton was done. What other WRs did we have? Our slow TEs? A LT who was coaching high school ball two weeks ago? And we had the best team in the AFC filling their pants. Yeah, okay. Go get Jon Gruden or Pagano. Give them this same personnel and live with the 'wisdom' of that decision.

 

Some dont appreciate what they have till they aint got it.

[hoosierhawk]

3 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

What mistake does Reich keep making? 

As Eaststreetstarted the thread with;

 

Bad play calling. Bad decisions in the RZ. Bad use of time outs which kept us from running any real offense in that last drive.... 

 

 

 

 

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

What mistake does Reich keep making? 

He repeatedly goes for it on 4th down instead of taking points in bad situations. Actually went for 2 points after a TD because he feared losing to the Bills in OT with another TD and wanted to go for the 1 point win. Brings Brissett in for a random down every game for some reason. Not very creative in play calling. Lots of stuff he needs to improve that we haven't seen in 3 years. He also abandons the run a lot at random times as well.

[Colt.45]

3 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

As Eaststreetstarted the thread with;

 

Bad play calling. Bad decisions in the RZ. Bad use of time outs which kept us from running any real offense in that last drive.... 

 

 

 

 

1st TO was because the clock almost ran out...that's on Phil. Cant remember what the 2nd TO was but i remember thinking 'why Phil?' so i think it was QB again. That last drive was garbage but honestly that was on Phil. The coach couldn't cover his limitations in that situation. 

 

And the red zone, I refer you to 2018 and 19 and what the Colts RZ was. The man has a history of killer RZ performance and i think the QB is the reason why this season was different. 99% convinced of it.

[SR711]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

He says all the right things in pressers. I hope he does too.

 

He made a very similar decision at the end of the 1st Texans game this year and was bailed out by the botched shotgun snap to Watson.  Clearly, he didn't spend too much reflecting or learning from it then, but I hope he does now.  

 

This type of thoughtless decision making without any adjustment based on how a game was unfolding was the type of thing that ultimately led to Jim Caldwell's demise here.  

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, Colt.45 said:

1st TO was because the clock almost ran out...that's on Phil. Cant remember what the 2nd TO was but i remember thinking 'why Phil?' so i think it was QB again. That last drive was garbage but honestly that was on Phil. The coach couldn't cover his limitations in that situation. 

 

And the red zone, I refer you to 2018 and 19 and what the Colts RZ was. The man has a history of killer RZ performance and i think the QB is the reason why this season was different. 99% convinced of it.

 

Edit, the 2nd TO was the challenge, right? That is the one i agree was a waste. That was bad.

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

LOL good HCs? Oh yeah? Like who? Chuck Pagano? 

 

I'll take a triple serving of Reich. Name this magical unicorn HC who doesn't make mistakes? You're talking of the same mistakes, they ALL do it. The one call that he made today that i disagree with 100% was the challenge. Everything else? Yeah, fair calls. Better execution and the story is different. We were in a game against a team that no one thought we had a chance against. A team with superior offensive talent, and we were a serious kicker away from tying or winning. With the offensive personnel few trotted out, I'll take that.

 

It wasn't weeks back that everyone thought Hilton was done. What other WRs did we have? Our slow TEs? A LT who was coaching high school ball two weeks ago? And we had the best team in the AFC filling their pants. Yeah, okay. Go get Jon Gruden or Pagano. Give them this same personnel and live with the 'wisdom' of that decision.

 

Some dont appreciate what they have till they aint got it.

Some HC candidates I like are Eric Bieniemy, Brian Daboll, Matt Campbell, Joe Brady, Robert Saleh, Urban Meyer, and Don Martindale. They would all be preferable to me to take a risk on rather than Frank Reich. I don't want Reich teaching a young QB if we get one, I don't even want Reich with a veteran if we are just going to go "one and done" in the playoffs.

[Moosejawcolt]

People continually talk about Franks play calling. U take away those drop passes and it is a totally different game. U take away those errant passes by Rivers and it is a different game. I think this was a good loss in a away. It really shows what we need going forward if we want to plsy eith thr big boys.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

LOL good HCs? Oh yeah? Like who? Chuck Pagano? 

who had near the same regular season record, and a better post season record.... with far inferior talent and a gm... 

 

you keep going back to the same old... 

2 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

I'll take a triple serving of Reich. Name this magical unicorn HC who doesn't make mistakes? You're talking of the same mistakes, they ALL do it. The one call that he made today that i disagree with 100% was the challenge. Everything else? Yeah, fair calls. Better execution and the story is different.

The O scored more than 21 vs a good D, and the D played pretty well vs one of the best Os in the league. Players always make mistakes as do coaches. Reich made several today. It wasn't just the challenge. 

2 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

We were in a game against a team that no one thought we had a chance against. A team with superior offensive talent, and we were a serious kicker away from tying or winning. With the offensive personnel few trotted out, I'll take that.

So you want to blame the rook kicker (fair), and not Reich for not taking an easy 3. Even the analytics disagreed with him. Rivers was like 6-9 on 3rd down until very late. That's pretty amazing.

2 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

It wasn't weeks back that everyone thought Hilton was done. What other WRs did we have?

Rivers has thrown 200+ yards to 9 different pass catchers, most in the league.

2 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Our slow TEs?

Our TEs had 130+ yards today, and were the one reliable component to the O. Reich forgot about them in the RZ.

2 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

A LT who was coaching high school ball two weeks ago?

He graded out pretty well last week, and I'd guess he will grade out well this week. Rivers wasn't sacked once, and the running game rushed for 40 more yards than the Bills rush D average...

2 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

And we had the best team in the AFC filling their pants. Yeah, okay. Go get Jon Gruden or Pagano. Give them this same personnel and live with the 'wisdom' of that decision.

 

Some dont appreciate what they have till they aint got it.

By the way, most aren't calling for Reich to be fired, just to give up play calling. Which is a very fair suggestion.

[EastStreet]

12 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

As Eaststreetstarted the thread with;

 

Bad play calling. Bad decisions in the RZ. Bad use of time outs which kept us from running any real offense in that last drive.... 

 

 

 

 

Yup, none of that is controversial lol. Even the surface focused talking heads are singing it.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

People continually talk about Franks play calling. U take away those drop passes and it is a totally different game. U take away those errant passes by Rivers and it is a different game. I think this was a good loss in a away. It really shows what we need going forward if we want to plsy eith thr big boys.

We had a few bad drops but some good catches overall. Rivers had a few bad passes but was incredible on 3rd down and to TEs... 

Several players had a bad play or two. Frank had several very bad plays. 

[Colt.45]

5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Some HC candidates I like are Eric Bieniemy, Brian Daboll, Matt Campbell, Joe Brady, Robert Saleh, Urban Meyer, and Don Martindale. They would all be preferable to me to take a risk on rather than Frank Reich. I don't want Reich teaching a young QB if we get one, I don't even want Reich with a veteran if we are just going to go "one and done" in the playoffs.

In one yeah with Reich, Andrew Luck had his best QBR ever. Finished with his best season ever despite starting off hurt. Luck looked a better QB than in all the years with Pagano when he looked like the same guy from Stanford.

 

Urban Meyer? LOLOLOLOLOLOL. The guy who had Parris looking like a limited wideout? Okay. He's about to be in your division, with a 5 star QB. Lets see how that shakes out.

 

All the guys you mention are mostly going to be coaching in the league next year, lets see how they do and revisit this.

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, SR711 said:

 

He made a very similar decision at the end of the 1st Texans game this year and was bailed out by the botched shotgun snap to Watson.  Clearly, he didn't spend too much reflecting or learning from it then, but I hope he does now.  

 

This type of thoughtless decision making without any adjustment based on how a game was unfolding was the type of thing that ultimately led to Jim Caldwell's demise here.  

Says great things, doesn't improve. Pretty sure Ballard and Irsay were like WTX several times. 

Again, not calling for his head, just calling for a new play caller. 

[Colt.45]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup, none of that is controversial lol. Even the surface focused talking heads are singing it.

And when those talking heads speak, you need to run in the other direction. 

 

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

who had near the same regular season record, and a better post season record.... with far inferior talent and a gm... 

 

you keep going back to the same old... 

The O scored more than 21 vs a good D, and the D played pretty well vs one of the best Os in the league. Players always make mistakes as do coaches. Reich made several today. It wasn't just the challenge. 

So you want to blame the rook kicker (fair), and not Reich for not taking an easy 3. Even the analytics disagreed with him. Rivers was like 6-9 on 3rd down until very late. That's pretty amazing.

Rivers has thrown 200+ yards to 9 different pass catchers, most in the league.

Our TEs had 130+ yards today, and were the one reliable component to the O. Reich forgot about them in the RZ.

He graded out pretty well last week, and I'd guess he will grade out well this week. Rivers wasn't sacked once, and the running game rushed for 40 more yards than the Bills rush D average...

By the way, most aren't calling for Reich to be fired, just to give up play calling. Which is a very fair suggestion.

 

Peace to you. We'll see what happens next year. No point arguing this further, we are in totally different planets on this.

[Moosejawcolt]

13 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

He repeatedly goes for it on 4th down instead of taking points in bad situations. Actually went for 2 points after a TD because he feared losing to the Bills in OT with another TD and wanted to go for the 1 point win. Brings Brissett in for a random down every game for some reason. Not very creative in play calling. Lots of stuff he needs to improve that we haven't seen in 3 years. He also abandons the run a lot at random times as well.

The 4th and 4 play was there. It wasn't executed bye the wr and qb. What the  hell did Frank have to do with the Bills marching 96 yards after and scoring a touchdown. Oh yea, we credit momentum and let the D off the hook. If we get the td we are up 17 7. Frank is aggressive because he doesnt trust the D and is playing an offensive juggernaut. Doesnt the fact that the Bills moon walked 96 yards right after that prove his point

[SurfinKal]

10 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Analytics:  Passing the coaching buck to a computer.  
 

Seems to perfectly mesh with Mr. Reich’s emotionless and stoic manner.  Very android-like.

 

 

I agree he is passing the buck. I see it all the time in my day job. managers using the "well the numbers suggest", "the data shows" and my favorite "based on what the data analyst shared with me" excuses make me sick; its a way for them not to take full responsibility for their decisions. I see the same with Reich's canned answer. 

[hoosierhawk]

It's

29 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The 4th and 4 play was there. It wasn't executed bye the wr and qb. What the  hell did Frank have to do with the Bills marching 96 yards after and scoring a touchdown. Oh yea, we credit momentum and let the D off the hook. If we get the td we are up 17 7. Frank is aggressive because he doesnt trust the D and is playing an offensive juggernaut. Doesnt the fact that the Bills moon walked 96 yards right after that prove his point

It's about putting your team in the best position to win. Kicking a FG from the 4 yd line has about a 95% chance  of being successful. Going for 4th and goal from the 4 has probably less than a 50% .chances of success. Don't know if the %s are correct but you get the point I think.

Actual % on FG is 97% and its 40% on 4th down from the 4.

[EastStreet]

22 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

And when those talking heads speak, you need to run in the other direction. 

 

 

Peace to you. We'll see what happens next year. No point arguing this further, we are in totally different planets on this.

Peace to you too. If you ever want to answer straight forward questions, or join Planet Reality, I'm here for ya man.

[Colt.45]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Peace to you too. If you ever want to answer straight forward questions, or join Planet Reality, I'm here for ya man.

No need to be snarky. You're not a baby. People can have differing opinions. 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

No need to be snarky. You're not a baby. People can have differing opinions. 

Sorry man (sincerely). I thought I was getting a lot of sarcasm from you earlier. If not, sincere apologies.

[ProblChld32]

5 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Bad play calling. Bad decisions in the RZ. Bad use of time outs which kept us from running any real offense in that last drive.... 

 

he made some VERY questionable play calls . The 4th down attempt when we had guaranteed 3 points. The challenge that caused us to lose a timeout. I get that the analytics say one thing but sometimes you have to use your commen sense. Had Reich had chose to kick the FG we would’ve went up 13-7. Ultimately we lost by three so that decision cost us in hindsight.

[Myles]

29 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

It's

It's about putting your team in the best position to win. Kicking a FG from the 4 yd line has about a 95% chance  of being successful. Going for 4th and goal from the 4 has probably less than a 50% chances of success. Don't know if the %s are correct but you get the point I think.

Reich h made many questionable calls.

[cdgacoltsfan]

2 hours ago, Sumo63 said:

I'm dying of stage 4 cancer.  Enjoy next year, I probably wont be here to debate fieldgoals.

Dude...here is to you beating this...i know others that had stage 4 and did so. Battle on and good luck.

[EastStreet]

12 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

 

he made some VERY questionable play calls . The 4th down attempt when we had guaranteed 3 points. The challenge that caused us to lose a timeout. I get that the analytics say one thing but sometimes you have to use your commen sense. Had Reich had chose to kick the FG we would’ve went up 13-7. Ultimately we lost by three so that decision cost us in hindsight.

Pretty sure he went against the analytics.

[Blueblazes]

Any coach makes mistakes. The thing is that today's mistakes were glaring and obvious. 3rd and 1 with a hot RB and the best Guard in the NFL but run wide? I just think Taylor gets

one yard in 2 tries behind Kelly or Nelson. Also, the the extremely bad challenge that may have cost us the game. (Going for 2 was bad but was made up for later, so that cancels that out). Frank should know better on all of those, clearly. Regular mistakes are understandable, but those 2 glaring mistakes probably cost us the game.

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, Blueblazes said:

Any coach makes mistakes. The thing is that today's mistakes were glaring and obvious. 3rd and 1 with a hot RB and the best Guard in the NFL but run wide? I just think Taylor gets

one yard in 2 tries behind Kelly or Nelson. Also, the the extremely bad challenge that may have cost us the game. (Going for 2 was bad but was made up for later, so that cancels that out). Frank should know better on all of those, clearly. Regular mistakes are understandable, but those 2 glaring mistakes probably cost us the game.

There are at least 5 glaringly bad Frank things this week. 

[jeremy2020]

Analytics should inform decisions, not make them. 

 

Making the decision is great if the team executes.

 

That given, they didn't seem to be wise decisions given the nature of the game. 

[NorthernColt]

12 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

People continually talk about Franks play calling. U take away those drop passes and it is a totally different game. U take away those errant passes by Rivers and it is a different game. I think this was a good loss in a away. It really shows what we need going forward if we want to plsy eith thr big boys.

 

For me its hard to explain. His playcalling when we're behind is fantastic imo. Same thing on most drives, great play calling. Its when he plays with a lead, or he's in the redzone, his playcalling makes it look like he's terrified of any risk. As soon as we get to the red zone, I think we only threw to the end zone once, and it was on 4th down. He calls scared at times when he's in position to step on someones throat.

[Moosejawcolt]

27 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

 

For me its hard to explain. His playcalling when we're behind is fantastic imo. Same thing on most drives, great play calling. Its when he plays with a lead, or he's in the redzone, his playcalling makes it look like he's terrified of any risk. As soon as we get to the red zone, I think we only threw to the end zone once, and it was on 4th down. He calls scared at times when he's in position to step on someones throat.

Those receivers catch those 7 drops and I think we are talking about a win