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Was this TY's final game as a Colt?


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1 hour ago, AustinnKaine said:

Are the packers gonna resign Jaire Alexander? Or was that already done?

Alexander is a nickel corner.   We have Kenny Moore.   He’s too small to play outside.   He plays the slot.  

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I think T.y is back on a 3 year deal, 30M

the wr position is a huge weakness all season i watched them struggle to get open on a regular basis .  they are average its a passing league you give rivers a better core he would have 30 plus touchd

Good question.  I must say - he was pretty “ghostly” in this game.

22 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Alexander is a nickel corner.   We have Kenny Moore.   He’s too small to play outside.   He plays the slot.  

What? He's a shutdown corner. Period. He does not exclusively play in the slot and often travels with their number one depending on matchups. Do you watch the Packers? He's an outside corner. Check the articles. He plays slot out of necessity not because they think it's optimal. Top corner. 

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4 minutes ago, tncoltsfan57 said:

Why in God's name would anyone like to see TY come back next year??? He was a non-factor 3/4ths of the season and especially today. Get him the he!! out of Indy!

Because rivers has a noodle arm so I don't think it's fair to judge him based off this year.

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5 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

What? He's a shutdown corner. Period. He does not exclusively play in the slot and often travels with their number one depending on matchups. Do you watch the Packers? He's an outside corner. Check the articles. He plays slot out of necessity not because they think it's optimal. Top corner. 

Have you followed the Colts closely?   Ballard prefers his outside corners to be at least 6’0” with long arms.   
 

Rhodes, Ya-Sin, Carrie, Tell are all six feet ir taller.   Only the slot guys, Moore and Rodgers are smaller than that.   Ballard also prefers long arms, 32 inches is the typical minimum accepted.  
 

Alexander is 5’10”.   I’m not saying he can’t play outside, I’m saying that’s not what Ballard wants.   

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2 hours ago, Colts Fan In L.A. said:

After this heartbreaking loss, I wonder what the future holds for TY. Would love to see him back but it might make sense to seek another younger receiver. Thoughts?


I think there Is a possibility he’ll be back on a 1 year deal but his future here is very dim. 

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28 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Have you followed the Colts closely?   Ballard prefers his outside corners to be at least 6’0” with long arms.   
 

Rhodes, Ya-Sin, Carrie, Tell are all six feet ir taller.   Only the slot guys, Moore and Rodgers are smaller than that.   Ballard also prefers long arms, 32 inches is the typical minimum accepted.  
 

Alexander is 5’10”.   I’m not saying he can’t play outside, I’m saying that’s not what Ballard wants.   

What are you on about? A shut down corner is a shut down corner. Goodnight! 

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Just now, AustinnKaine said:

What are you on about? A shut down corner is a shut down corner. Goodnight! 

If you don’t like it, take it up with Chris Ballard.    He’s the General Manager.   He runs the team.   
 

Good luck with that!     :thmup:

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I think TY had a bad game at the end of a season where he played well during the latter half of it.  He still has something left.  More importantly, we still haven't seen anyone yet step up and take the WR1 mantle.  I'd like to see Pittman do it, but he hasn't done it yet.  As long as TY still has something, and he's the WR1, then we give him another contract.

 

I would agree that it shouldn't exceed 2 years.  He's nearly done.  Let's give him enough to do what he can, play well, and pass the baton to the next guy.  And let him retire as a Colt.  He deserves it.

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I think this is going to be one of the harder moves for the Colts to make this off-season. TY still probably has a place in this offense and is really the Colts only number one option (and yes other teams still game plan for him like he’s a number one).  However, he’s not producing like he used too and you have young kids in Pittman and Campbell who have shown promise but in Campbell’s case has also shown you can’t count in him to be out there.  
 

I think it comes down to do the Colts try it make another run with Rivers.  If they do brining back TY makes a lot of sense.  However, if they try to get younger at the QB spot letting TY walk and maybe taking a little step back next year probably makes sense.  

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2 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

I think TY had a bad game at the end of a season where he played well during the latter half of it.  He still has something left.  More importantly, we still haven't seen anyone yet step up and take the WR1 mantle.  I'd like to see Pittman do it, but he hasn't done it yet.  As long as TY still has something, and he's the WR1, then we give him another contract.

 

I would agree that it shouldn't exceed 2 years.  He's nearly done.  Let's give him enough to do what he can, play well, and pass the baton to the next guy.  And let him retire as a Colt.  He deserves it.

I really like the flash Pittman is showing and I do think he’s the future number one but I don’t think next year is the future.  It’s probably the year after.  That and Campbell’s injury history is what is going to make the call on TY so hard to make.  

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I wouldn't want to see him go, but he's dependent on chemistry with his QB. Rivers and JB can't really hit him in stride deep so the best thing he does is kind of shelved with those guys. 

 

 

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WR was a huge weakness for this team all season. Pittman started showing flashes, but he doesn’t look like a true #1 WR. I think he’ll develop into a top tier #2 which isn’t bad at all. Campbell looks like an unfortunate injury bust. Pascal is a pretty solid 3 or 4, the TE bunch was serviceable but unspectacular.
 

TY should be brought back on a very team friendly deal or let go if he wants more. It wasn’t a lack of chemistry or Rivers not being able to hit TY in stride like some people are commenting. TY was not getting open consistently and also had quite a few drops for a #1 WR.  He came on towards the end of the season but slid backwards in the playoff game.
 

Look at every top 15 passing offense, every single one of them has at least 1 if not 2 stud receivers and/or a tight end. Colts didn’t have that this season so I think they need to address it in the draft or free agency.

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On 1/9/2021 at 9:14 PM, AustinnKaine said:

Because rivers has a noodle arm so I don't think it's fair to judge him based off this year.

What about last year or even the year before with Luck, where he’d disappear for games at a time? TY has been in a decline for a couple years now. 

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On 1/10/2021 at 4:22 AM, TheLegend87 said:

Really hope he comes back and we can get a healthy year from Campbell.

I really hope Campbell can stay healthy. Him and Pittman would be a great duo for years. I do think because of his injury issues we need to still draft another WR.  We just need to keep working on it until it is figured out.  Pascal should be brought back on 2 or 3 years. He is a important 3 or 4. 

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1 hour ago, Krushinator said:

WR was a huge weakness for this team all season. Pittman started showing flashes, but he doesn’t look like a true #1 WR. I think he’ll develop into a top tier #2 which isn’t bad at all. Campbell looks like an unfortunate injury bust. Pascal is a pretty solid 3 or 4, the TE bunch was serviceable but unspectacular.
 

TY should be brought back on a very team friendly deal or let go if he wants more. It wasn’t a lack of chemistry or Rivers not being able to hit TY in stride like some people are commenting. TY was not getting open consistently and also had quite a few drops for a #1 WR.  He came on towards the end of the season but slid backwards in the playoff game.
 

Look at every top 15 passing offense, every single one of them has at least 1 if not 2 stud receivers and/or a tight end. Colts didn’t have that this season so I think they need to address it in the draft or free agency.

 

Yeah...the goal should not be to have a merely good enough pass catching group. And they don't even have that yet. Pittman is a nice piece...but they need another WR and a young TE.

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On 1/9/2021 at 9:09 PM, tncoltsfan57 said:

Why in God's name would anyone like to see TY come back next year??? He was a non-factor 3/4ths of the season and especially today. Get him the he!! out of Indy!

I like loyal team players, but this is a business. I dont think TY will be happy if Ballard offers him his declining worth. It might be a go test the market situation. He will feel unappreciated and probably go else where. Hes definately not a solid num1 anymore.

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On 1/9/2021 at 6:07 PM, AustinnKaine said:

They have White? He can erase most receivers, and he is a deep threat. Rivers couldn't throw a 40 yard hail mary. I doube he is the QB to take advantage of T.Y's skill set. 

Ty doesn't get open over the top like he used to.  Hes always had a tiny catch radius and doesn't seem to often catch balls that are contested.  That ball that PR put up that he didn't make a play on going towards the end zone has to be made.  We need someone to open the hip, jump up, and catch it with his hands, not like TY did where he tried to cradle it over his shoulder.  He faces that ball and jumps, he's probably going to at least draw the flag.  The corner was beat and Rivers placed the ball perfectly.  

 

He runs professional routes and has value.  I think his absence v. Balt was pretty significant.  He is more of a 3rd type of option guy now IMO.  If he takes WR3 cash to play for us again, I'm for it.  Anything other than that, time to move on.  I hope this org loses its fixation on "loyalty" like it had with AV last year.  

 

 

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On 1/9/2021 at 6:07 PM, AustinnKaine said:

He will pop off with any accurate deep passer. 

 

On 1/9/2021 at 6:09 PM, AustinnKaine said:

I do not think he has lost his speed. Also Rivers has nothing to do with if T.Y is resigned, Rivers won't be playing for us next year, pretty much guranteed when you can't throw 40 yards. I been saying all year he has a noodle arm, he finally put it on full display. Also you are right on the three years, he probably comes back on a 2 year deal. 

 

Good Lord dude.  PR was masterful on Sunday.  

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On 1/9/2021 at 5:53 PM, danlhart87 said:

The WR position is fine 

I would bring TY back 1 year

 

 

1 hour ago, Nesjan3 said:

1 year deal to mentor the young guys. He is not the same TY on the field 

 

53 minutes ago, ThorstenDenmark said:

Give him a one year offer, if he declines, then move on.

 

TY is not the player he used to be, and I wont give him more than a one year deal at the time, speedy WR's as him decline fast.

 

TY recently said his next contract will be his last.  I tend to doubt he'll want a 1 year deal.  

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2891695-colts-ty-hilton-on-retirement-my-next-contract-will-be-it-for-me

On 1/9/2021 at 8:09 PM, tncoltsfan57 said:

Why in God's name would anyone like to see TY come back next year??? He was a non-factor 3/4ths of the season and especially today. Get him the he!! out of Indy!

Maybe because he's been a good player for Indy for almost a decade, he's been very good to the city of Indianapolis, and is a team captain and well-respected leader by his teammates.  Doesn't mean he has to be brought in on a huge contract or expected to be a #1 or #2 WR, but he could still be a productive member of the team on the field and off the field.

 

32 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I like loyal team players, but this is a business. I dont think TY will be happy if Ballard offers him his declining worth. It might be a go test the market situation. He will feel unappreciated and probably go else where. Hes definately not a solid num1 anymore.

 

Was TY really ever a 'solid #1'?  I'm being serious.

 

In 2016, he had 1,448 yards which led the NFL but his 91 receptions were 10th in the league.  Otherwise, he had 2 seasons where he had 82 receptions (2013-2014) and 1 season where he had 76 receptions (2018).  Otherwise his reception numbers were 50 (2012), 69 (2015), 57 (2917), 45 (2019 -granted he only played in 10 games), 57 (2020). 

 

Sorry, but those don't scream "solid #1 WR" to me.  Reggie was our #1 for the first 7 games of 2013 and he was around in 2014.  Reggie put up 9 consecutive seasons of over 75+ receptions (4 of them >100)... and the first 3 or 4 of those years Reggie was playing sidekick to Marvin Harrison... Marvin put up 8 consecutive years of >80 receptions (4 being  >100 and 2 being in the 90s).  

 

In his entire 9 year career, TY has put up >75 receptions 4 times (less than half), has only broken 90 once and never came close to 100.  Since TY has been in the league there have been at least 8 guys (all but two years there have been over 10 guys) who have 90+ receptions.  TY has done that once (barely, with 91).  

 

I have a hard time saying TY was ever a solid #1 WR in his career, with the exception of 2016.  

 

I like TY a lot, he's been fun to watch, seems like a great guy, I think he's hilarious, and he seems to be a very solid teammate and leader.  I would like to see Indy keep him around with a limited role, as I think he's still a solid WR... I just don't get all the hype about him expecting #1 WR money, as he's really never performed like an elite #1 WR (exception of 2016, so 1 out of 9 years).

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On 1/9/2021 at 7:24 PM, Four2itus said:

It's not always about 2 years, 3 years, or 4 years. It's about how much is guaranteed in the first 2 years. He would never sign for a 4 year backloaded deal. He'll want most of 25 large paid out in the next two years. (my guess)

There's no way this team should be paying that if that is the number.  

 

He will probably be worse next year, and certainly worse the following year.

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8 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Ty doesn't get open over the top like he used to.  Hes always had a tiny catch radius and doesn't seem to often catch balls that are contested.  That ball that PR put up that he didn't make a play on going towards the end zone has to be made.  We need someone to open the hip, jump up, and catch it with his hands, not like TY did where he tried to cradle it over his shoulder.  He faces that ball and jumps, he's probably going to at least draw the flag.  The corner was beat and Rivers placed the ball perfectly.  

 

He runs professional routes and has value.  I think his absence v. Balt was pretty significant.  He is more of a 3rd type of option guy now IMO.  If he takes WR3 cash to play for us again, I'm for it.  Anything other than that, time to move on.  I hope this org loses its fixation on "loyalty" like it had with AV last year.  

 

 

 

I agree for the most part... with the exception of thinking the team had a 'fixation' on loyalty.  They were bringing in kickers every week it seemed like, and AV was beating them out in practice.  The guy who eventually replaced him (Chase McLaughlin) was waived by 4 other teams before he got to Indy.  

 

I genuinely think there was just a lack of a market for solid kickers last year... there's almost never a lack of a market for guys who could be solid #3 WRs.

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1 minute ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

I agree for the most part... with the exception of thinking the team had a 'fixation' on loyalty.  They were bringing in kickers every week it seemed like, and AV was beating them out in practice.  The guy who eventually replaced him (Chase McLaughlin) was waived by 4 other teams before he got to Indy.  

 

I genuinely think there was just a lack of a market for solid kickers last year... there's almost never a lack of a market for guys who could be solid #3 WRs.

Maybe man.  I tend to think there are plenty of guys who can kick FGs45 and in and make XPs but I certainly don't know for sure.

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7 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

 

 

 

TY recently said his next contract will be his last.  I tend to doubt he'll want a 1 year deal.  

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2891695-colts-ty-hilton-on-retirement-my-next-contract-will-be-it-for-me

Maybe because he's been a good player for Indy for almost a decade, he's been very good to the city of Indianapolis, and is a team captain and well-respected leader by his teammates.  Doesn't mean he has to be brought in on a huge contract or expected to be a #1 or #2 WR, but he could still be a productive member of the team on the field and off the field.

 

 

Was TY really ever a 'solid #1'?  I'm being serious.

 

In 2016, he had 1,448 yards which led the NFL but his 91 receptions were 10th in the league.  Otherwise, he had 2 seasons where he had 82 receptions (2013-2014) and 1 season where he had 76 receptions (2018).  Otherwise his reception numbers were 50 (2012), 69 (2015), 57 (2917), 45 (2019 -granted he only played in 10 games), 57 (2020). 

 

Sorry, but those don't scream "solid #1 WR" to me.  Reggie was our #1 for the first 7 games of 2013 and he was around in 2014.  Reggie put up 9 consecutive seasons of over 75+ receptions (4 of them >100)... and the first 3 or 4 of those years Reggie was playing sidekick to Marvin Harrison... Marvin put up 8 consecutive years of >80 receptions (4 being  >100 and 2 being in the 90s).  

 

In his entire 9 year career, TY has put up >75 receptions 5 times, has only broken 90 once and never came close to 100.  Since TY has been in the league there have been at least 8 guys (all but two years there have been over 10 guys) who have 90+ receptions.  TY has done that once (barely, with 91).  

 

I have a hard time saying TY was ever a solid #1 WR in his career, with the exception of 2016.  

 

I like TY a lot, he's been fun to watch, seems like a great guy, I think he's hilarious, and he seems to be a very solid teammate and leader.  I would like to see Indy keep him around with a limited role, as I think he's still a solid WR... I just don't get all the hype about him expecting #1 WR money, as he's really never performed like an elite #1 WR (exception of 2016, so 1 out of 9 years).

I agree with you. Would he accept a limited role without feeling slighted. Hopefully shopping the market will reflect his worth and he'd decide to take lower pay and ball out as a slot reciever.

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9 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

Was TY really ever a 'solid #1'?  I'm being serious.

 

In 2016, he had 1,448 yards which led the NFL but his 91 receptions were 10th in the league.  Otherwise, he had 2 seasons where he had 82 receptions (2013-2014) and 1 season where he had 76 receptions (2018).  Otherwise his reception numbers were 50 (2012), 69 (2015), 57 (2917), 45 (2019 -granted he only played in 10 games), 57 (2020). 

 

Sorry, but those don't scream "solid #1 WR" to me.  Reggie was our #1 for the first 7 games of 2013 and he was around in 2014.  Reggie put up 9 consecutive seasons of over 75+ receptions (4 of them >100)... and the first 3 or 4 of those years Reggie was playing sidekick to Marvin Harrison... Marvin put up 8 consecutive years of >80 receptions (4 being  >100 and 2 being in the 90s).   

 

In defense of T.Y., in 2012 he was a rookie and behind Wayne and Avery in targets.  In 2013 and 2014 he had 82 receptions each year, alongside Wayne (7 games in 2013 and 15 in 2014). Reggie drew a lot of the coverage and T.Y. feasted. 

 

Since then, we have all been saying that T.Y. has never had a competent #2 receiver alongside him. You can make an argument that T.Y. has seem more coverage rolled to him (in comparison to M. Harrison and Wayne) since we have never provided T.Y. a complimentary #2 receiver to draw away some coverage.

 

In comparison, M. Harrison had Stokely and Wayne as complimentary receivers to help draw coverage away from him.

 

Wayne had Collie and Garcon to draw coverage away.

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19 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I agree with you. Would he accept a limited role without feeling slighted. Hopefully shopping the market will reflect his worth and he'd decide to take lower pay and ball out as a slot reciever.

 

He would have to be delusional to think any team is going to offer him #1 money.  He had 56 receptions this season, second on the team behind Hines.  He's noticeably declined from what he was in 2016.  He'll likely be offered something around what a WR who can catch ~50 balls would get offered (maybe slightly more as he can add some value as a locker room guy).  If any team is offering much more than that, that team should probably be looking for a new GM.  I don't know if it matters if he feels slighted, as his other option will probably be to just retire now.

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11 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

He would have to be delusional to think any team is going to offer him #1 money.  He had 56 receptions this season, second on the team behind Hines.  He's noticeably declined from what he was in 2016.  He'll likely be offered something around what a WR who can catch ~50 balls would get offered (maybe slightly more as he can add some value as a locker room guy).  If any team is offering much more than that, that team should probably be looking for a new GM.  I don't know if it matters if he feels slighted, as his other option will probably be to just retire now.

Your right it doesn't matter if he feels slighted or not. I think he will take slightly less elsewhere just to prove a point. I'm cool with it though it's his choice.

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31 years old and coming off a poor year. I'm conflicted. If he comes back on a 1-2 year deal that's Colts friendly, fine. If he moves on, I'm okay with that too.

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28 minutes ago, IndyD4U said:

31 years old and coming off a poor year. I'm conflicted. If he comes back on a 1-2 year deal that's Colts friendly, fine. If he moves on, I'm okay with that too.

Main free agents I really want back are Walker, Autry, Pascal, and Rhodes. I think everyone else is replaceable. I wouldn't be mad if Rhodes goes if we got someone younger like Mike Hilton to be our number 1. I think Rodgers and Tell can battle Rock for the second CB spot.

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2 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

In defense of T.Y., in 2012 he was a rookie and behind Wayne and Avery in targets.  In 2013 and 2014 he had 82 receptions each year, alongside Wayne (7 games in 2013 and 15 in 2014). Reggie drew a lot of the coverage and T.Y. feasted. 

 

Since then, we have all been saying that T.Y. has never had a competent #2 receiver alongside him. You can make an argument that T.Y. has seem more coverage rolled to him (in comparison to M. Harrison and Wayne) since we have never provided T.Y. a complimentary #2 receiver to draw away some coverage.

 

In comparison, M. Harrison had Stokely and Wayne as complimentary receivers to help draw coverage away from him.

 

Wayne had Collie and Garcon to draw coverage away.

 

I disagree very much here.

 

Reggie had 27 receptions as a rookie and 49 in year two (2001 and 2002, respectively).  

 

Marvin had 109 receptions in 2001 and 143 in 2002.  Marvin was being double teamed or triple teamed almost constantly those seasons and pass interference rules were way less strict then than they are now.  His 143 reception season (an NFL record which stood for nearly 2 decades), was insane - he had an average (49 reception) Reggie and the other WRs on that team were Drew Haddad, Qadry Ismail, Troy Walters with TEs Joe Dean Davenport, Marcus Pollard, Mike Roberg and Jermaine Wiggins.  In 2001, he had 27 reception Reggie (who people labeled as a bust of a draft pick), Jerome Pathon, Trevor Insley, Tony Simmons and Terrence Wilkins along with a washed up Ken Dilger, Pollard and Joe Dean Davenport.  Absolutely no way that Marv had any more help than TY has had since he has been here either of those years.  

 

In 1999, Harrison had 115 receptions on a team which had decent TEs in Dilger (40 receptions) and Pollard (30 receptions) along with Pathon, EG Green, Chad Plummer, Isaac Jones, and Wilkins.... in 2000, Marv had 102 receptions with the same WR/TE group but add Josh Keur to the TEs.  Marv did have Edge and the play action working for him.. but in terms of WR/TE help taking pressure off him as the #1 WR, those 4 years are worse than any year where TY put up >80 receptions.  

 

Wayne is a bit different as he was mainly Marv's #2 until Marv got hurt, and the stretch between Marv and TY he had 2009 with Clark (also 100 receptions), Collie (60 receptions), Garcon (47 receptions), 2010 had Collie, Garcon, Tamme all 58+ receptions, and 2011 he actually got less targets and receptions than Garcon.  

 

Anyway, I don't see that argument.. .since TY's been here he had Reggie for 3 years to start (Reggie put up 106 receptions TY's rookie year, Avery had 60, Dwayne Allen had 45 in TY's rookie year), in year 2 Reggie was WR1 for the first 7 games but Fleener had 52 receptions)..., year 3 Reggie had 64 receptions, Fleener 51 and Nicks/Moncrief both >30... year 4 Moncrief had 64 receptions to TY's 69, Fleener had 54, Andre had 41... year 5 Doyle had 59 receptions, ALlen had 35 and Dorsett and Moncrief both >30 (this was TY's best year)... year 6 Doyle had 80 receptions to TYs 57.. year 7 TY had 76 receptions, Ebron had 66, Rogers had 53, Hines had 63, Grant had 35 and Inman only played half a year and had 28... year 8 TY had 45 receptions with Doyle having 43, Pascal getting 41, Ebron getting 31 before quitting on the team after week 11... this past year his numbers were not all that better than Pascal or Pitmman andthen we had a healthy mix of Doyle, Burton, MAC and our RBs getting receptions.

 

The only argument I could see for TY is that he had 1/2 a season with Hasselbeck and 2 seasons with Jacoby, whereas Marv had Peyton the majority of his career (after 2 years with Harbaugh) and Reggie always had Peyton or Luck.

 

Furthermore, TY has had 2 seasons with 7 TDs, 2 seasons with 6 TDs and otherwise never more than 5 TDs.  Marv had 8 consecutive years with >10 TDs, plus 1 with 8, 1 with 6 and 1 with 7 to start his career.  Reggie had 3 seasons with >10 TDs, 1 with 9 and 3 with 6+.

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27 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Your right it doesn't matter if he feels slighted or not. I think he will take slightly less elsewhere just to prove a point. I'm cool with it though it's his choice.

 

Maybe, though I don't picture TY as that kind of guy.  He and his family seem to like Indy and he's said he'd ideally retire a Colt.  Unless some team offers him something absurd $ wise or he gets an offer to go to a team like TB/KC etc. (where his role would be even further diminished than here, but he'd have a better shot at a ring), I doubt he leaves.

 

6 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Main free agents I really want back are Walker, Autry, and Rhodes. I think everyone else is replaceable. I wouldn't be mad if Rhodes goes if we got someone younger like Mike Hilton to be our number 1. I think Rodgers and Tell can battle Rock for the second CB spot.

 

I'd like them all back, especially Rhodes who seemed to excel in our defensive scheme.  Autry's solid but getting old and to me is not 'special' - in other words, I think he can be replaced probably with a rookie or someone cheaper.  I like Walker, too and he'll prob be getting top dollar offers as he has had 3 straight seasons with >90 tackles (92 this year, 105 and 124 in 2018 and 2019).  

 

I think Walker's ceiling is limited by his athleticism and honestly don't think our LB corps would drop off too much if we had Leonard, Oke, Speed as our main 3 with the role guys (Franklin, Adams, maybe Skai Moore or a rookie) remaining at a similar talent level.

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