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Indeee

Can the Colts win a SB right now?

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Does everyone believe that this team AS CURRENTLY constructed can win a SB right now by adding a couple key positional players?

 

There has been a lot of discussion about this off-season in many other threads and most are in reference to the QB, either drafting one or signing a FA.

 

I'm curious to really know what each of you really think about this team as it is affected in each scenario, meaning:

 

If you believe the Colts can win right now as Daniel Jeremiah recently suggested, then the mindset from the FO would be to sign a FA vet QB and in this case IMO the Colts would have to spend a decent amount of other money in FA to solidify this approach, especially in the D-line/Rush and/or WR.

 

If you believe the Colts are still short of competing for a SB and are still maybe a year or two away, then signing a FA QB makes no sense, especially in the case of Rivers as he is 38. I know some suggested signing Rivers and drafting a younger guy to learn behind him, but to me that makes no sense as that could be achieved with a guy behind Brissett from a playing standpoint, letting the coaches coach and mentor a rook. The only way this makes sense would be the logic of Rivers being a bettor mentor than Brissett, however it takes away from this team potentially having another opportunity next year from draft positioning if Rivers is in the fold as he might be good for 1-3 more wins over JB.

 

There is a lot of moving parts here and I truly believe how this off-season really plays out will determine how the Colts view their current state as a team.

 

If they bring in a Vet FA QB for visits once league year starts, along with higher profile FA position players, then IMO they believe they can win NOW.

 

If they stay the course as the past couple of years and tackle the off-season through signing in-house guys, minimal FA mid-tier visits and signings, and heavy draft, then I believe they would feel they are still a year or two away from REALLY competing for a SB.

 

I personally do not think they can truly compete for a SB now, where only a couple players are missing from winning it all. To me there are more needs then most of us are either admitting, or truly recognizing here. I think last year's record, especially early in the year was smoke and mirrors as it takes two teams to play. At best if we had of made the play-offs, we would have all found out the hard way that this team just played over it's head at certain points during regular season and we weren't as good as our record would have had us believe. It was a blessing that we fell off a cliff in the second half, as there is no way any of us should have wanted anyone in the FO being blinded by what this team really was disguised within a win/loss record. That decline woke them up IMO.

 

What do you all really think about this?

 

Not from what you think will happen or what you hope will happen, but do you believe the Colts are a couple players away from truly hoisting a SB trophy or are we a year or two still away?

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I think with a good draft this year and IF we could find another QB then yes. We have a lot of talent on this team and prior to teams finding the weakness in our offense (The QB) we were seriously looking like a complete team and won some good ball games including the eventual super bowl champs. How many games was it on the season we lost by 7 or less? A good QB who could have actually stretched the field and kept us in contention and we possibly could have won more games and got into the playoffs and from there it's a crap shoot.

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Sorry, everyone. I titled this wrong. It should have said "Win SB right now". I think we do have talent enough to win games, but I do not think we have the talent needed to win the SB and I don't believe we are a couple players away from doing that.

 

**I fixed original post.

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I believe so we in all honesty were a few plays away from a playoff berth with a below average qb and a slew of injuries . Add a few pieces and a above average qb this team could be special . 

 

Add in a Luck type qb we would be in the mix for sb favorites imo . 

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Define "now". If it is the next 2 years, then maybe yes. If it is this upcoming year, then no. New pieces on O and D will be added and will take a little time for players to gel and for coaches to figure out what each one does best and how to mix and match them on the field. 

 

It will be at least the 2021 season before I expect us to be SB contenders. Division contenders this year, maybe, but not SB contenders in 2020.

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LOLNO

 

edit: I'll go one step further. I'm not sure there's any move(s) that can be made sans Luck coming back that put's this team in honest contention for a SB this upcoming year. Playoffs, sure, maybe. 

 

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1 minute ago, chad72 said:

Define "now". If it is the next 2 years, then maybe yes. If it is this upcoming year, then no. 

I thought it was defined in the post. You answered one of the scenarios, that being no. Meaning you would logically side then with not wanting to add a Vet FA QB and shoot a wad on a couple big name FA's either.

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9 minutes ago, Indeee said:

I thought it was defined in the post. You answered one of the scenarios, that being no. Meaning you would logically side then with not wanting to add a Vet FA QB and shoot a wad on a couple big name FA's either.

 

 Perhaps under his scenario he IS saying Yes sign a veteran QB and a couple of very good players in FA.
 With a solid draft we could have a very good Playoff caliber team that would be learning how to play together and be in a much better position in year two to be real SB contenders.
 I believe this has been Balards plan all along. This IS the year to add High Quality to fill in the gaps.
 Of course i am sure they were hoping Brissett would have been considerably better as an all around passer. Therefore the vet QB must be considered if CB believes we are on the cusp.

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Yes, absolutely.   With an upgrade at QB and Kinlaw on the D-line, this is a very good team.   When a team has a top 3 O-line, the sky is the limit.   RB's are better, QB is better and receivers are better.   This team was considered a Superbowl contender before Luck retired.  We cannot add a Luck quality player, but the teams younger players are better and we have good draft picks to improve it.  

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It's difficult to say when you don't know who will be the starting QB next year.

 

If it's a rookie, expect a lot of growing pains. If it's a veteran like Phillip Rivers, they might be able to win now, but there are still glaring holes in the secondary and defensive line. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Myles said:

Yes, absolutely.   With an upgrade at QB and Kinlaw on the D-line, this is a very good team.   When a team has a top 3 O-line, the sky is the limit.   RB's are better, QB is better and receivers are better.   This team was considered a Superbowl contender before Luck retired.  We cannot add a Luck quality player, but the teams younger players are better and we have good draft picks to improve it.  

 

Not really arguing, you're just the lucky recipient of my reply. I don't see it. I really don't. This team was considered a SB contender because of Luck and the o line protection. There's not one element of this team now that's on that level at this time. 

As far as what Ballard has added, lot's of it is unknown. I wouldn't pencil most of them in as improved yet. It could come to pass that lot's of these guys are good.

Even upgrading on JB isn't on paper going to make me think this team can beat KC, Bmore, Houston (when the money is down.. week 4 or something, whatever.maybe).. and what if Tennessee lands Brady? The Colts don't even get out of the South. 

We're pretty far away in my estimation. Luck comes back? Then they're not so far away, but that's not going to happen.

 

I dunno. I should stop spinning my wheels on this, but to go from something to nothing sucks.

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44 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Define "now". If it is the next 2 years, then maybe yes. If it is this upcoming year, then no. New pieces on O and D will be added and will take a little time for players to gel and for coaches to figure out what each one does best and how to mix and match them on the field. 

 

It will be at least the 2021 season before I expect us to be SB contenders. Division contenders this year, maybe, but not SB contenders in 2020.

I agree mostly, but add a year to each.

 

2020 to season/gel the rookies and QB, 2021 to contend for division, 2022 to contend for SB.

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22 minutes ago, Myles said:

Yes, absolutely.   With an upgrade at QB and Kinlaw on the D-line, this is a very good team.   When a team has a top 3 O-line, the sky is the limit.   RB's are better, QB is better and receivers are better.   This team was considered a Superbowl contender before Luck retired.  We cannot add a Luck quality player, but the teams younger players are better and we have good draft picks to improve it.  

Ok, what about the skills players? TY is starting to injury bug lately, Doyle is Meh, Mack is just okay and a proponent of our O-Line, as he renders nothing in the passing game. Pascal and the rest are a bunch of JAGS. Where are the real skill players? So you add a QB and Kinlaw(I like Kinlaw too for this team). Using your assertion of just adding a QB and Kinlaw, how are you going to won a SB as you suggest without Skill players at every position on offense?

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Guys and Girls, as I asked/stated in response to @Myles this team has no skill players at any position. Think about it from an honest perception and not from a homer standpoint.

 

Doyle is serviceable but nothing spectacular.

Mack behind any other O-Line not as good as ours, is average at best or below.

Ty is above average, but is 31-32, and has started to show signs of wear down. I doubt we see him play another 16-17 game season in full the remainder of his career.

Campbell, who knows at this point.

Pascal, Funchess, Rodgers, Fountain, whoever...Just a bunch of JAGS

Mo-Cox, short of a comic catch phrase is taking up space.

Hines, where did this guy disappear to?

 

This is my point. Where are the skill players to win a SB?

 

This team is not just a couple guys away and don't give me examples of how a couple other teams have won with less. That's lightening in a bottle mentality and though it might happen, it should never be used in a true reflection of what is staring you in the face.

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I dont live my fandom life according to SB's. That said, I think that the Colts can be highly competitive right now, and that is what I seek as a fan.

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Not enough difference makers on the team. 

 

Offense: Great O-line and T.Y. - That's it.

We basically lose every time T.Y. is out of the lineup, which is becoming more of a common occurrence. We have no other special players on offense.

 

Defense: D. Leonard.

Everyone else is just average or slightly above at best. No difference makers.

 

The Colts were 7-9 -- a below average team without Luck. They have a long ways to go.

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34 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Ok, what about the skills players? TY is starting to injury bug lately, Doyle is Meh, Mack is just okay and a proponent of our O-Line, as he renders nothing in the passing game. Pascal and the rest are a bunch of JAGS. Where are the real skill players? So you add a QB and Kinlaw(I like Kinlaw too for this team). Using your assertion of just adding a QB and Kinlaw, how are you going to won a SB as you suggest without Skill players at every position on offense?

Many of those players suffered from Brissett.   Also injury bug.   I think Campbell, Hilton, Funchess, Pascal, Doyle, Hines, Mack and a couple rookies (TE especially) is a pretty decent crew.  

I don't think they WILL win the Superbowl, but I think they can win it.  

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 With Rivers there's a good chance of going to the big dance, but you need some players in place like Edge. DLs, WR. You can get them through FAs, and the Draft.

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Most discussion have been fixated on a QB THIS YEAR and where I'm in 100% agreeance on the QB being the most important position on the field, I am steadfast in NOT taking a QB in any facet this year. The Colts basically have 3 #1 picks. 13, 34, and 44. You use them to get the D-lineman we desperately need and the other 2 on wideouts. This draft class is full of difference maker wideouts. Let the other teams draft all the QB's and we solidify playmaking positions. Then next year if Brissett and/or Kelly stink again, then we get the QB and we already have the other positions filled and still young. That's all I'm saying as there won't or shouldn't be too many teams with QB needs next year.

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3 minutes ago, Myles said:

Many of those players suffered from Brissett.   Also injury bug.   I think Campbell, Hilton, Funchess, Pascal, Doyle, Hines, Mack and a couple rookies (TE especially) is a pretty decent crew.  

I don't think they WILL win the Superbowl, but I think they can win it.  

Brother I respect that, however its speculation as Funchess never saw the field and Campbell barely sniffed it, so right there deems those two "what if's". You know who Pascal is? Pascal is Demarcus Robinson in KC. He is a WR3 at best on any other team shoved into a WR2/WR1a position based on circumstance here. His ceiling is a WR2B. In a three receiver set with two real playmakers around him he's the guy that catches 40-55 balls or less with a couple of them being game changing i.e. a key first down or two and a couple unexpected TD's here and there. You should know this. Rodgers should be released or not brought back and fountain should be sent packing too

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Not without a prominent DT. Maybe Harris from the Broncos? Then sign a QB. You're getting a lot of injured WRs back this year. The Colts are 2 players away from being an AFC contender. The Colts have a top 5 running game. This defense will come alive when we get an interior presence. Wrs are inexperienced, but I'll take that any day over a depleted injured wr group. I guess we are going with Mo Ali Cox at TE?... TE is a weakness. But out of the teams in the AFC, yes, I think we are a few players away from being contenders. The AFC doesnt impress me. 

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7 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

 With Rivers there's a good chance of going to the big dance, but you need some players in place like Edge. DLs, WR. You can get them through FAs, and the Draft.

What are you talking about? Rivers has had the Chargers in the AFCCG ONCE, AGAIN ONCE in his career back in 2007 when he was 26 with more talent offensively than this team has currently and you believe Rivers at 38 can take the Colts to the SB with this group and/or a couple rookies? Seriously? Come on. All of this Rivers junk is absurd. I'm not being disrespectful to you just because, it's just it makes no sense to feel this way. It ain't happening whether Rivers is here or not.

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8 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Most discussion have been fixated on a QB THIS YEAR and where I'm in 100% agreeance on the QB being the most important position on the field, I am steadfast in NOT taking a QB in any facet this year. The Colts basically have 3 #1 picks. 13, 34, and 44. You use them to get the D-lineman we desperately need and the other 2 on wideouts. This draft class is full of difference maker wideouts. Let the other teams draft all the QB's and we solidify playmaking positions. Then next year if Brissett and/or Kelly stink again, then we get the QB and we already have the other positions filled and still young. That's all I'm saying as there won't or shouldn't be too many teams with QB needs next year.

I agree with all of this except the QB position.   We have the cap space to draft like you want and add a FA QB.   Why did you say "IF" Brissett isn't good again.   We know who he is.   He's been the same since college.  He has not improved.   I'm not giving up on Campbell yet.   

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7 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

Not without a prominent DT. Maybe Harris from the Broncos? Then sign a QB. You're getting a lot of injured WRs back this year. The Colts are 2 players away from being an AFC contender. The Colts have a top 5 running game. This defense will come alive when we get an interior presence. Wrs are inexperienced, but I'll take that any day over a depleted injured wr group. I guess we are going with Mo Ali Cox at TE?... TE is a weakness. But out of the teams in the AFC, yes, I think we are a few players away from being contenders. The AFC doesnt impress me. 

I agree.   I don't think people realize how much the "D" suffered from no interior pass rush.  Especially the scheme that was used.  

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1 minute ago, Myles said:

I agree with all of this except the QB position.   We have the cap space to draft like you want and add a FA QB.   Why did you say "IF" Brissett isn't good again.   We know who he is.   He's been the same since college.  He has not improved.   I'm not giving up on Campbell yet.   

IDK why, my gut has been telling me this isn't the year for a QB. I have actually tried to rationalize situations where I would be okay or even happy about this and I can't do it. Something is telling me NO to a QB this year. I originally kind of got behind bringing Mariota in on a prove it one year deal like Titans did with tannehill, but I've since waivered from that too

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I don’t really think so, no. I do think we can win some games but I think we’re in for a transitional year, much like this past season. Some really high highs and some really low low’s.

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51 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Guys and Girls, as I asked/stated in response to @Myles this team has no skill players at any position. Think about it from an honest perception and not from a homer standpoint.

 

Doyle is serviceable but nothing spectacular.

Mack behind any other O-Line not as good as ours, is average at best or below.

Ty is above average, but is 31-32, and has started to show signs of wear down. I doubt we see him play another 16-17 game season in full the remainder of his career.

Campbell, who knows at this point.

Pascal, Funchess, Rodgers, Fountain, whoever...Just a bunch of JAGS

Mo-Cox, short of a comic catch phrase is taking up space.

Hines, where did this guy disappear to?

 

This is my point. Where are the skill players to win a SB?

 

This team is not just a couple guys away and don't give me examples of how a couple other teams have won with less. That's lightening in a bottle mentality and though it might happen, it should never be used in a true reflection of what is staring you in the face.

I agree, ballards method of trading down in the draft means that we are getting players with less chance of being elite skill players, this team is full of players who would not start on the top teams. ballards non use of the cap money to sign elite talent means we will just sign average free agents. no i dont think ballards low cost method will ever put us at the top of our division and we wont be in any super bowl with his low cost trading down method.

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35 minutes ago, Indeee said:

What are you talking about? Rivers has had the Chargers in the AFCCG ONCE, AGAIN ONCE in his career back in 2007 when he was 26 with more talent offensively than this team has currently and you believe Rivers at 38 can take the Colts to the SB with this group and/or a couple rookies? Seriously? Come on. All of this Rivers junk is absurd. I'm not being disrespectful to you just because, it's just it makes no sense to feel this way. It ain't happening whether Rivers is here or not.

I think you make a good point.  Any idea that adding Rivers to the team makes us an instant contender is probably a little foolish, considering what Rivers did in the past, with better supporting cast.  Yes, Rivers would be a much more productive QB than JB.  For a while.  But his value only goes so far.

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Since Rivers has been the starting QB for the Chargers, this is a list of his playoff losses:

 

 lost to Patriots 

lost to the Broncos 

lost to the Steelers

lost to the Jets... 

 

I think he just had the misfortune of playing some better teams and then in the same division as Peyton, when he went to the Broncos.

 

We won at KC this year... if we are healthy, have a better QB who can actually read a D and throw the ball accurately to his WRs, that makes our run game even better etc...which scoring more points and having more sustained drives on O will make our D better...

 

SO i say yes, if we add some key pieces via FA and the draft, we can compete for a Super Bowl...we beat 3 of the last 4 teams in the AFC playoffs, this past season (Tennessee, Houston and KC).

 

 

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1 hour ago, Indeee said:

Most discussion have been fixated on a QB THIS YEAR and where I'm in 100% agreeance on the QB being the most important position on the field, I am steadfast in NOT taking a QB in any facet this year. The Colts basically have 3 #1 picks. 13, 34, and 44. You use them to get the D-lineman we desperately need and the other 2 on wideouts. This draft class is full of difference maker wideouts. Let the other teams draft all the QB's and we solidify playmaking positions. Then next year if Brissett and/or Kelly stink again, then we get the QB and we already have the other positions filled and still young. That's all I'm saying as there won't or shouldn't be too many teams with QB needs next year.

I have been in this line of thought pretty much since the end of last season. I would be happy with one DT,  WR, and depth at OT out of the first three picks.

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7 minutes ago, coltsblue1844 said:

Since Rivers has been the starting QB for the Chargers, this is a list of his playoff losses:

 

 lost to Patriots 

lost to the Broncos 

lost to the Steelers

lost to the Jets... 

 

I think he just had the misfortune of playing some better teams and then in the same division as Peyton, when he went to the Broncos.

 

We won at KC this year... if we are healthy, have a better QB who can actually read a D and throw the ball accurately to his WRs, that makes our run game even better etc...which scoring more points and having more sustained drives on O will make our D better...

 

SO i say yes, if we add some key pieces via FA and the draft, we can compete for a Super Bowl...we beat 3 of the last 4 teams in the AFC playoffs, this past season (Tennessee, Houston and KC).

 

 

Rivers has had the Misfortune of playing better teams huh? Meaning more talented teams than the ones Rivers were playing on at the time? Probably. Then sure why not... Let's Bring Rivers here so he can yet again have the misfortunate opportunity of playing better teams than the one he will be on... :lol:. You've just proved my point brother, thank you :thmup:

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6 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Rivers has had the Misfortune of playing better teams huh? Meaning more talented teams than the ones Rivers were playing on at the time? Probably. Then sure why not... Let's Bring Rivers here so he can yet again have the misfortunate opportunity of playing better teams than the one he will be on... :lol:. You've just proved my point brother, thank you :thmup:

If you think that the AFC today is anywhere NEAR as tough as it was with a prime Peyton, Brady, Roethlisberger etc, you're nuts! lol   Our Colts, as constructed with JB as the QB, beat Tennessee, Houston and KC this year...and lost several others because of QB play and D being forced to stay on the field too long, because our O couldnt keep the drives going. "brother"

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Also, the Broncos were not world beaters until an "old" Peyton Manning arrived, fresh off of spinal surgery and a year off from football...and a much weaker arm... then all of a sudden, they went to two Super Bowls in 2 years.   Sometimes a QB upgrade is all that is needed to get over the hump.  If Andrew Luck isnt walking back through that door, then we need to do what we can for the NOW and for the FUTURE... or, if we are as bad as you seem to think we are, maybe we should just forfeit all of our games for the next 5 years.

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

I agree.   I don't think people realize how much the "D" suffered from no interior pass rush.  Especially the scheme that was used.  

 

QB and DT are the most important pieces. If the Colts upgrade those two spots, the Colts are contenders. Good thing its that time if year that you add pieces to your team. 

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3 minutes ago, coltsblue1844 said:

If you think that the AFC today is anywhere NEAR as tough as it was with a prime Peyton, Brady, Roethlisberger etc, you're nuts! lol   Our Colts, as constructed with JB as the QB, beat Tennessee, Houston and KC this year...and lost several others because of QB play and D being forced to stay on the field too long, because our O couldnt keep the drives going. "brother"

 

1 minute ago, coltsblue1844 said:

Also, the Broncos were not world beaters until an "old" Peyton Manning arrived, fresh off of spinal surgery and a year off from football...and a much weaker arm, arrived... then all of a sudden, they went to two Super Bowls in 2 years.   Sometimes a QB upgrade is all that is needed to get over the hump.  If Andrew Luck isnt walking back through that door, then we need to do what we can for the NOW and for the FUTURE... or, if we are as bad as you seem to think we are, maybe we should just forfeit all of our games for the next 5 years.

This is not a thread about winning games. This is a thread about winning the SB. There is a huge difference. Where I believe the Colts DO have talent in some areas, they are derived of talent in many others, especially offensive skill positions.. That lack of talent is what will stop this team from winning a SB, 9 times out of 10. On any given Sunday any team can beat another, those wins as you suggest are irrelevant to this reflection. So, if you want to only use the assertion that on any given Sunday, Rivers and this group along with a couple rookie wideouts could win the SB, then sure, they could, however so could any other middle of the road/slightly above average team in the NFL. It is highly unlikely though, 9 times out of 10. Rivers to the Colts will not get this team a SB, 9 times out of 10 and great teams like to give their selves better odds at SB wins.

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This was a SB contending team with AL. If we get the right QB and a few pieces like and interior DL and maybe a pass catcher I don't see why we cant contend again.

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2 hours ago, Indeee said:

Ok, what about the skills players? TY is starting to injury bug lately, Doyle is Meh, Mack is just okay and a proponent of our O-Line, as he renders nothing in the passing game. Pascal and the rest are a bunch of JAGS. Where are the real skill players? So you add a QB and Kinlaw(I like Kinlaw too for this team). Using your assertion of just adding a QB and Kinlaw, how are you going to won a SB as you suggest without Skill players at every position on offense?

Dude.

 

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