Can the Colts win a SB right now?

[Indeee]

2 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

This was a SB contending team with AL. If we get the right QB and a few pieces like and interior DL and maybe a pass catcher I don't see why we cant contend again.

You are right, however the reality of finding another Luck is not likely. That's the key. There are only a handful of QB's that can win SB's with mediocre talent around them in the skill positions. Brady was one, Luck was another. I won't list all the QB's who might be in this category, but using ARod as example who is a truly elite franchise QB, even he hasn't been able to it based on "Lack of Skill Players". This is why losing Luck was devastating to THIS team. No QB in FA or the Draft this year is Brady or Luck. 

[OffensivelyPC]

Dude, did you watch the part where we got eliminated from playoff contention this year?  It was when football was still going on and no Colts games were happening...

[Myles]

30 minutes ago, Indeee said:

 

This is not a thread about winning games. This is a thread about winning the SB. There is a huge difference. Where I believe the Colts DO have talent in some areas, they are derived of talent in many others, especially offensive skill positions.. That lack of talent is what will stop this team from winning a SB, 9 times out of 10. On any given Sunday any team can beat another, those wins as you suggest are irrelevant to this reflection. So, if you want to only use the assertion that on any given Sunday, Rivers and this group along with a couple rookie wideouts could win the SB, then sure, they could, however so could any other middle of the road/slightly above average team in the NFL. It is highly unlikely though, 9 times out of 10. Rivers to the Colts will not get this team a SB, 9 times out of 10 and great teams like to give their selves better odds at SB wins.

You have to first improve your odds of winning the division.  Rivers (or another) would improve those odds over Brissett.  

 

1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:

I think you make a good point.  Any idea that adding Rivers to the team makes us an instant contender is probably a little foolish, considering what Rivers did in the past, with better supporting cast.  Yes, Rivers would be a much more productive QB than JB.  For a while.  But his value only goes so far.

That's what I want.   An improvement.  It'd only be for 2 years and they have the cap space.   Then they would not have to draft a QB this year.   Draft Kinlay to immediately improve the line, draft one of the plethora of good WR's and maybe a TE. 

 

1 hour ago, DEFENSE said:

I agree, ballards method of trading down in the draft means that we are getting players with less chance of being elite skill players, this team is full of players who would not start on the top teams. ballards non use of the cap money to sign elite talent means we will just sign average free agents. no i dont think ballards low cost method will ever put us at the top of our division and we wont be in any super bowl with his low cost trading down method.

Ballard kind of had to trade down for a couple years to stock the team that was so void of good players.  I hope he's ready to go for it now.   

[Myles]

24 minutes ago, Indeee said:

You are right, however the reality of finding another Luck is not likely. That's the key. There are only a handful of QB's that can win SB's with mediocre talent around them in the skill positions. Brady was one, Luck was another. I won't list all the QB's who might be in this category, but using ARod as example who is a truly elite franchise QB, even he hasn't been able to it based on "Lack of Skill Players". This is why losing Luck was devastating to THIS team. No QB in FA or the Draft this year is Brady or Luck. 

Well Brady is.  

But I don't think he is leaving the Pats.   

I really just want the Colts to improve the QB position.  I don't like any of the FA's as long term QB's.   2 years is ideal so we have time to find and groom the next try.

[Indeee]

43 minutes ago, Myles said:

Well Brady is.  

But I don't think he is leaving the Pats.   

I really just want the Colts to improve the QB position.  I don't like any of the FA's as long term QB's.   2 years is ideal so we have time to find and groom the next try.

From an improvement standpoint I do think that is attainable as well, although I would like to see Kelly get a real shot. That being said even with an improvement at QB, Colts still need to address the skill positions so the QB can have better chances at success. Speaking of Rivers, there's no way he would come in here and it be a massive difference as some suggested it would without those skill position improvements when Rivers had better skill positions and couldn't get it done in Diego/LA.

[CanuckColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Indeee said:

You are right, however the reality of finding another Luck is not likely. That's the key. There are only a handful of QB's that can win SB's with mediocre talent around them in the skill positions. Brady was one, Luck was another. I won't list all the QB's who might be in this category, but using ARod as example who is a truly elite franchise QB, even he hasn't been able to it based on "Lack of Skill Players". This is why losing Luck was devastating to THIS team. No QB in FA or the Draft this year is Brady or Luck. 

 

 

 

I totally get where you are coming from. I think this team has gotten better though. Our Oline is elite. If we can get a few pieces on D they can be top 10 at least in the stuff that matters. Get us one more solid pass catcher and we have a competitive team.  KC won with a highly flawed D but it came together and complemented that explosive O. I think that winning and contention for a SB involve just a bit of a tweak here or there. Get a top 15 QB and this team can roll.

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

You have to first improve your odds of winning the division.  Rivers (or another) would improve those odds over Brissett.  

 

That's what I want.   An improvement.  It'd only be for 2 years and they have the cap space.   Then they would not have to draft a QB this year.   Draft Kinlay to immediately improve the line, draft one of the plethora of good WR's and maybe a TE. 

 

Ballard kind of had to trade down for a couple years to stock the team that was so void of good players.  I hope he's ready to go for it now.   

it is past time

[indyagent17]

Lord have mercy, NO. Need 5 new pieces on this team to even get to a conference championship game

 

QB, DT, WR, TE and CB

[GoColts8818]

These are two different questions.  As they are currently constructed no they can’t.  That team couldn’t even have a winning record let alone win a Super Bowl.  
 

Now if you add a couple of key players as the OP suggested of course they can if they are the right guys and things break the Colts way.  That’s true for the vast majority of NFL teams.

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

4 hours ago, Indeee said:

From an improvement standpoint I do think that is attainable as well, although I would like to see Kelly get a real shot. That being said even with an improvement at QB, Colts still need to address the skill positions so the QB can have better chances at success. Speaking of Rivers, there's no way he would come in here and it be a massive difference as some suggested it would without those skill position improvements when Rivers had better skill positions and couldn't get it done in Diego/LA.

true we have no one like watson has with hopkins, watson can throw down field anywhere close to hopkins and he will get it, hard to beat that combo with our receivers

[NewColtsFan]

If by right now you mean 2020 — no.

 

But with the right moves in FA and the draft we can return to the playoffs this year.

 

Getting to a Super Bowl level is going to take another few years.  

[cdgacoltsfan]

No team can win a Super Bowl right now. It's not being played until Feb 2021.

[CR91]

With our current QB situation, no. If Luck was still at QB, I'd say we'd have a good chance.

[Yoshinator]

58 minutes ago, CR91 said:

With our current QB situation, no. If Luck was still at QB, I'd say we'd have a good chance.

With FA and the draft coming up, I 100% agree we'd be in contention with Luck. Especially with our cap space.

[EastStreet]

Now, no.

But with the below, yes.

 

1) better QB (draft or FA)

2) legit 3T (draft or FA)

3) healthy WR unit AND/OR addition via draft/FA

[CanuckColt]

What a funny question...can a 7-9 team add a couple of players and contend for the SB.  Not in this real world...maybe in someone's fantasy.

 

[Indeee]

2 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

What a funny question...can a 7-9 team add a couple of players and contend for the SB.  Not in this real world...maybe in someone's fantasy.

 

This thread/funny question was only started to potentially prove a point. A point centered around the QB position, particular Rivers. The ones who have answered no such as yourself, then should conclude that bringing in a 38 year old QB would not make sense, unless the Colts believed they could win now. Rivers is a waste of money. Why bring in a veteran to potentially win more games than JB did and still not be able to win the SB? Even if you draft a QB, fine, but let that "insert whoever here" play from the jump as losing games only helps our draft stock in 2021 to keep adding high end pieces we need. Anyway, that's why I started the thread. If Rivers is signed by the Colts I think it's obvious that the Colts believe they can win now, although they won't because they are not strong enough in key skill positions.

[Coltsman1788]

On 2/25/2020 at 11:32 AM, Indeee said:

IDK why, my gut has been telling me this isn't the year for a QB. I have actually tried to rationalize situations where I would be okay or even happy about this and I can't do it. Something is telling me NO to a QB this year. I originally kind of got behind bringing Mariota in on a prove it one year deal like Titans did with tannehill, but I've since waivered from that too

You’re not crazy Indee. It’s a lousy year to be in a position of needing a quarterback.  Underwhelming options abound.

[Myles]

14 hours ago, Indeee said:

This thread/funny question was only started to potentially prove a point. A point centered around the QB position, particular Rivers. The ones who have answered no such as yourself, then should conclude that bringing in a 38 year old QB would not make sense, unless the Colts believed they could win now. Rivers is a waste of money. Why bring in a veteran to potentially win more games than JB did and still not be able to win the SB? Even if you draft a QB, fine, but let that "insert whoever here" play from the jump as losing games only helps our draft stock in 2021 to keep adding high end pieces we need. Anyway, that's why I started the thread. If Rivers is signed by the Colts I think it's obvious that the Colts believe they can win now, although they won't because they are not strong enough in key skill positions.

So you are talking tanking?

[Indeee]

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

So you are talking tanking?

No, not at all. Rivers in my mind might be good for a couple more wins, so basically anywhere between 8-8 - 10-6. So it makes no sense for him to be here. Listening to most here about how the season was last year, where we should have really been the same record as I just posted would take place with Rivers, then why do you need Rivers when we can get those results with JB? If Rivers can't win you a SB, there is no reason for him to come here, NONE.

[AwesomeAustin]

Huh?  Super Bowl ? Lol, we’re not even close. Let’s start by winning the division which we haven’t done in 5yrs. I was flamed last off-season for calling the Colts a fringe playoff team before Luck retired.  We are worse off now. Nearly every position group has serious holes or question marks. Loads of potential that could blossom or could be average.   No, the Colts are not a couple players away from a SB. They are about 8 players away from being legit contenders with the most important being the QB. 

[Myles]

1 hour ago, Indeee said:

No, not at all. Rivers in my mind might be good for a couple more wins, so basically anywhere between 8-8 - 10-6. So it makes no sense for him to be here. Listening to most here about how the season was last year, where we should have really been the same record as I just posted would take place with Rivers, then why do you need Rivers when we can get those results with JB? If Rivers can't win you a SB, there is no reason for him to come here, NONE.

Sure sounds like tanking.   Even if the odds are low that you would compete for the Superbowl, If you don't try to improve it is at minimum a form of tanking.  Not in the Miami Dolphins sense though.  

 

"Why bring in a veteran to potentially win more games than JB did and still not be able to win the SB? Even if you draft a QB, fine, but let that "insert whoever here" play from the jump as losing games only helps our draft stock in 2021"

[lincolndefan]

1 hour ago, Indeee said:

No, not at all. Rivers in my mind might be good for a couple more wins, so basically anywhere between 8-8 - 10-6. So it makes no sense for him to be here. Listening to most here about how the season was last year, where we should have really been the same record as I just posted would take place with Rivers, then why do you need Rivers when we can get those results with JB? If Rivers can't win you a SB, there is no reason for him to come here, NONE.

 

I disagree ... What was alarming to me was the worse JB got, the team also got worse. What i mean by that is JB lost the team. Therefore, those wins you speak of are long gone with JB. This team needs swagger or confidence if you will to win consistently. That was lost last year. Maybe Rivers can instill confidence back to the team, i don't know, but JB or Hoyer will not. They both have to go and should of been gone by now. I have my doubts the Colts can win the SB regardless what they do this off season. 

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, lincolndefan said:

 

I disagree ... What was alarming to me was the worse JB got, the team also got worse. What i mean by that is JB lost the team. Therefore, those wins you speak of are long gone with JB. This team needs swagger or confidence if you will to win consistently. That was lost last year. Maybe Rivers can instill confidence back to the team, i don't know, but JB or Hoyer will not. They both have to go and should of been gone by now. I have my doubts the Colts can win the SB regardless what they do this off season. 

I think they can compete  for superbowl  with a dt qb and wr addition. Combine  that with key pieces on defense  staying  healthy  and a better kicker.

[coltsblue1844]

19 hours ago, CanuckColt said:

What a funny question...can a 7-9 team add a couple of players and contend for the SB.  Not in this real world...maybe in someone's fantasy.

 

Didnt the 49ers win four games, last year?  And they made it to the Super Bowl this year and led for the majority of the game...and they only added a couple of players...a QB, WR and D-lineman...sounds very similar to our needs (and they play very similar on O to our style of play)

[Myles]

25 minutes ago, coltsblue1844 said:

Didnt the 49ers win four games, last year?  And they made it to the Super Bowl this year and led for the majority of the game...and they only added a couple of players...a QB, WR and D-lineman...sounds very similar to our needs (and they play very similar on O to our style of play)

Yep.   The Titans nearly made the Superbowl.  To me, the goal should be to make the playoffs.   Anything can happen from there.  

[aaron11]

29 minutes ago, coltsblue1844 said:

Didnt the 49ers win four games, last year?  And they made it to the Super Bowl this year 

perfect storm for that to happen.  good qb coming off injury and drafted a very good edge rusher that made an impact right away 

 

i suppose colts could get there if they add a QB that plays well immediately and add a high caliber player or two to the defense.   

[Flash7]

43 minutes ago, coltsblue1844 said:

Didnt the 49ers win four games, last year?  And they made it to the Super Bowl this year and led for the majority of the game...and they only added a couple of players...a QB, WR and D-lineman...sounds very similar to our needs (and they play very similar on O to our style of play)

Yup, but it was the Chiefs that WON the Superbowl, who went 12-4 in 2018-19. But your point is valid.

[SpanosSucks]

On 2/25/2020 at 9:26 AM, Indeee said:

What are you talking about? Rivers has had the Chargers in the AFCCG ONCE, AGAIN ONCE in his career back in 2007 when he was 26 with more talent offensively than this team has currently and you believe Rivers at 38 can take the Colts to the SB with this group and/or a couple rookies? Seriously? Come on. All of this Rivers junk is absurd. I'm not being disrespectful to you just because, it's just it makes no sense to feel this way. It ain't happening whether Rivers is here or not.

 

Lifelong Chargers fan here.  Unfortunately now without a team due to what the Chargers did to SD and Rivers.  Been excited to see where he lands for next team.  Been lurking this board because for me it is the #1 place I'd like to see him go.

 

I understand without being a fan and watching a team week after week, you can't really grasp how everything went down.  Yes, Rivers has only made one Championship game, but this wasn't due to his lack of play or talent.  It's a 52 man team, and you need a team to win.  06 and 07 were his best teams.  06 they lost to Patriots because of a number of awful plays by the team.  In 07, in the AFCCG he played on a torn ACL with LT sitting out the game with an injury - playing an undefeated Patriots team on the road.  I don't think any Chargers fans were really expecting the upset with all those factors.  In 08 they were 8-8 and weren't expected to do anything in playoffs, but happened to beat the colts.  And in 09 lost a 3 point game in where our kicker missed 3 FG.  After 09, the offensive line went on a decline and was never properly fixed.  The defense was mediocre from 2011 - 2017.  Meanwhile  Rivers stats were always solid, minus a couple bad turnover years(which was due to awful offensive line play).  Check out his stats from 2010.  He was throwing to 2nd - 4th string WR that year because Jackson held out.  Add to the list having nothing but garbage head coaches and owners that don't have winning mentality.

 

Now, I could be completely wrong, and maybe last year was a sign of his decline.  But as someone who watched every single game multiple times from 2019, that offensive line was pure trash.  Watch the steelers game if you really want to see how bad it was.  Rivers would've been MVP in 2018 and taken his team to the #1 seed, had it not been for KC moving on from Smith and starting Mahomes.  That was with a bad oline too.  The reason I'm excited for Colts as a landing spot is because he will have a few things he's never had - a top oline, good coach, solid run game(hasn't had this since 08), and ownership that actually cares about winning.

 

I haven't seen any of the Colts games outside of Colts vs Chargers week 1, but I can see 6 of your 9 losses were by 7 or less.  And JB's numbers looked mediocre.  I'd imagine if you got a QB like Rivers who could play like he did in 2018, you add some more wins to that column and become competitors.

 

But I completely understand the sentiment coming from the people who don't want to see Rivers there.  All you see if a QB nearing the end of his career coming off the worst statistical season of his career.  But I believe Rivers behind a good oline, with a run game, he can still play at a high level.

[r a y s k i]

I don't think so. We lack serious top talent at DE and WR. And I've not seen enough from Brissett to say he could make up for those, yet anyway. 

[TimetobringDfence!]

On 2/25/2020 at 9:39 AM, Indeee said:

Sorry, everyone. I titled this wrong. It should have said "Win SB right now". I think we do have talent enough to win games, but I do not think we have the talent needed to win the SB and I don't believe we are a couple players away from doing that.

 

**I fixed original post.

If we had  top 5 Qb play we would instantly be in the mix.

[CanuckColt]

On 2/25/2020 at 1:30 PM, Myles said:

Well Brady is.  

But I don't think he is leaving the Pats.   

I really just want the Colts to improve the QB position.  I don't like any of the FA's as long term QB's.   2 years is ideal so we have time to find and groom the next try.

We needs to get Brissett out of the Colts picture...then go on from there with almost anyone else. Quit trying to hang on to JB...he is holding  back the rest of the team.

[Dingus McGirt]

I don't think so.  After all, the next Super Bowl is a year away.

[Hoose]

No to a SB for a few years. The missing ingredients:

1. Desperately need a new QB. That fixes a lot of problems on O.

2. Desperately need a pass rush. That fixes a lot of problems in the secondary. 

3. Desperately need more offensive weapons in the passing game to help our new QB. Speaks for itself. Its TY, Mack, and a bag of stale popcorn right now. 

 

Fix those problems and now you're able to discuss a run in the playoffs. And to fix those problems, IMO,  its going to take two more solid drafts and a couple of key FAs. Until then, patience is required. 

[krunk]

I think we could if we had Phillip Rivers at QB and some upgrades at WR.   I think he could do something like Kurt Warner in his last years.  Now that it's more realistic I've gotten more open to the idea of acquiring Rivers and drafting a young QB or maybe staying with Chad Kelly if they believe in him at all.   I think we're fine at LB and on the back end.  I think we need to upgrade our CB position and add a little bit more fire on the DL.  Do those things and yeah I believe we could win the Super Bowl if Rivers were the QB.  I'd be very interested to see our offense because we could finally open some things up that we were holding back due to Brissetts limitations.

[Imgrandojji]

Can?  Yes.  I wouldn't give great odds, we certainly would need to be luckier on the injury front than we were last year for a start.  Bu yes, a miracle run is possible.

[Imgrandojji]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

I think we could if we had Phillip Rivers at QB and some upgrades at WR.   I think he could do something like Kurt Warner in his last years.  Now that it's more realistic I've gotten more open to the idea of acquiring Rivers and drafting a young QB or maybe staying with Chad Kelly if they believe in him at all.   I think we're fine at LB and on the back end.  I think we need to upgrade our CB position and add a little bit more fire on the DL.  Do those things and yeah I believe we could win the Super Bowl if Rivers were the QB.  I'd be very interested to see our offense because we could finally open some things up that we were holding back due to Brissetts limitations.

See, putting "Phillip Rivers" and "Super Bowl" in the same post just destroys all your credibility.

 

There are upgrades that would dramatically increase our chances of a Superbowl.  Phillip Rivers isn't one of them.  He's a high rolling gunslinger who routinely comes up small in the biggest moments,  and has a habit of creating turnovers in the worst possible situations.  (not as bad as Famous Jameis, obviously, nobody is as bad as famous Jameis, but Rivers has led the league in interceptions twice in his career)

 

IMHO Rivers is exactly what we don't need.  All stats no substance.  At least Brissett can orchestrate a few comebacks and plays a conservative style that won't shoot us in the foot with turnovers.

 

For the record, Brissett's pick rate was ~1/3 of Rivers'.  1.3% vs 3.4%. He might "hold the ball too long" but for a guy who averaged less than 30 attempts per game, he was pretty efficient.

[Freenyfan102]

no

[krunk]

2 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

See, putting "Phillip Rivers" and "Super Bowl" in the same post just destroys all your credibility.

 

There are upgrades that would dramatically increase our chances of a Superbowl.  Phillip Rivers isn't one of them.  He's a high rolling gunslinger who routinely comes up small in the biggest moments,  and has a habit of creating turnovers in the worst possible situations.  (not as bad as Famous Jameis, obviously, nobody is as bad as famous Jameis, but Rivers has led the league in interceptions twice in his career)

 

IMHO Rivers is exactly what we don't need.  All stats no substance.  At least Brissett can orchestrate a few comebacks and plays a conservative style that won't shoot us in the foot with turnovers.

 

For the record, Brissett's pick rate was ~1/3 of Rivers'.  1.3% vs 3.4%. He might "hold the ball too long" but for a guy who averaged less than 30 attempts per game, he was pretty efficient.

Oh man theres plenty of QB out there who didnt get there until late. Doesnt mean it cant happen because he missed an opportunity or two before. Who thought Kurt Warner was going to get to a Super Bowl? Rivers has all the skill. We just sat here and watched Ryan Tanehill get to an AFC championship. Its not crazy to think Rivers could do that with a complete team around him. Hes more likely than any of these other FA qb or draft picks. Most of us know Rivers can play and even at this age put a team on his shoulders at different points. Im not worried about his pick rate. Especially behind a good O line and a solid ground game. I think hes got enough skill to get us there but in all honesty since hed be a stop gap i mostly like him for his ability to keep us competitive while the young guy marinates.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 2/25/2020 at 8:22 AM, Indeee said:

Does everyone believe that this team AS CURRENTLY constructed can win a SB right now by adding a couple key positional players?

 

There has been a lot of discussion about this off-season in many other threads and most are in reference to the QB, either drafting one or signing a FA.

 

I'm curious to really know what each of you really think about this team as it is affected in each scenario, meaning:

 

If you believe the Colts can win right now as Daniel Jeremiah recently suggested, then the mindset from the FO would be to sign a FA vet QB and in this case IMO the Colts would have to spend a decent amount of other money in FA to solidify this approach, especially in the D-line/Rush and/or WR.

 

If you believe the Colts are still short of competing for a SB and are still maybe a year or two away, then signing a FA QB makes no sense, especially in the case of Rivers as he is 38. I know some suggested signing Rivers and drafting a younger guy to learn behind him, but to me that makes no sense as that could be achieved with a guy behind Brissett from a playing standpoint, letting the coaches coach and mentor a rook. The only way this makes sense would be the logic of Rivers being a bettor mentor than Brissett, however it takes away from this team potentially having another opportunity next year from draft positioning if Rivers is in the fold as he might be good for 1-3 more wins over JB.

 

There is a lot of moving parts here and I truly believe how this off-season really plays out will determine how the Colts view their current state as a team.

 

If they bring in a Vet FA QB for visits once league year starts, along with higher profile FA position players, then IMO they believe they can win NOW.

 

If they stay the course as the past couple of years and tackle the off-season through signing in-house guys, minimal FA mid-tier visits and signings, and heavy draft, then I believe they would feel they are still a year or two away from REALLY competing for a SB.

 

I personally do not think they can truly compete for a SB now, where only a couple players are missing from winning it all. To me there are more needs then most of us are either admitting, or truly recognizing here. I think last year's record, especially early in the year was smoke and mirrors as it takes two teams to play. At best if we had of made the play-offs, we would have all found out the hard way that this team just played over it's head at certain points during regular season and we weren't as good as our record would have had us believe. It was a blessing that we fell off a cliff in the second half, as there is no way any of us should have wanted anyone in the FO being blinded by what this team really was disguised within a win/loss record. That decline woke them up IMO.

 

What do you all really think about this?

 

Not from what you think will happen or what you hope will happen, but do you believe the Colts are a couple players away from truly hoisting a SB trophy or are we a year or two still away?

God no.  The D is horrible and we need a qb.