Cleveland Browns Paper Tigers

[danlhart87]

I don't see the hype. I could see them going 8 and 8 next year and being the laughing stock of the league again.

[TomDiggs]

On paper the Browns have the look of a team that could win 10-12 games.

 

They have not played together and it is only a paper exercise until they prove it.

 

That being said, Baker Mayfield looks like the real deal.

 

Their OL is solid. If the right side of the line holds up they will be above average there.

 

They have crazy offensive skill position firepower. Beckham, Landry, Callaway, Njoku, Chubb, Hunt, Duke Johnson.

 

Their offense could be scary if the gel.

 

Defensively they look pretty well stacked too.

 

A D-Line featuring Myles Garrett, Sheldon Richardson and Olivier Vernon could be great if they all perform up to their capabilities.

 

Kirksey and Schobert are solid LBs.

 

And their secondary is talented as heck.

 

Ward, Greedy, Burnett and Randall make for a nice group.

 

Again, they have yet to play together so it is all projection. But there is talent all across the board on this team.

 

Combine that with the Ravens rebuilding on the fly and the Steelers playing without Bell and Brown for an entire season and the Bengals being the Bengals and all of the sudden you have a team that could go something like 4-2 or 5-1 in their division.

 

If they can split with the Steelers and the Ravens, they could easily reach 10 wins

 

Potential wins: Ravens, Steelers, Bengals (2), Jets, 49ers, Broncos, Bills, Dolphins, Cardinals

Potential losses: Ravens, Steelers, Patriots, Seahawks, Titans, Rams

 

I feel like 8 wins is their floor and 12 wins is their ceiling. They will be fun to watch this year.

 

 

 

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

They have the potential to be a AFC Force. 

A lot depends on Baker's maturity in his second season. Coaching and injuries.

[Myles]

On 5/20/2019 at 3:27 PM, danlhart87 said:

I don't see the hype. I could see them going 8 and 8 next year and being the laughing stock of the league again.

I don't think they would be the laughing stock of the league at 8-8.

2 years ago they were -16.  3 years ago they were 1-15.

They are extremely stacked and have a QB who seems like the real deal.   They could win 10-14 games this season.   The Hunt signing was genius.  

[Hark]

I think the Browns are the most fascinating question mark in the league. With all the vets they brought in, who will take charge of the locker room? Will it be Mayfield? Should it be Mayfield? If not, who?

Can their new head coach mold this group into something?

Will there be too many egos for everyone to get along and play together?

 

Having said all that, I agree with @TomDiggs. With all the talent they have in what could be a mediocre division, 8 wins is probably the floor.

[King Colt]

Can't loose sight of what they were and what they are looking like now and that has to get the juices flowing in Cleveland and NFL fans in general. I am pulling for them until they meet the Colts in the playoffs.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

They will probably be good. The issue is if the team has any adversity will they have leaders that step up or will they fold like cry babies. 

[Valpo2004]

They look good on paper but I'm skeptical of a team that signs and trades for a bunch of name players in a short time.  

[NewColtsFan]

On 5/20/2019 at 12:27 PM, danlhart87 said:

I don't see the hype. I could see them going 8 and 8 next year and being the laughing stock of the league again.

 

I have no idea where you live....   and I'm not asking.

 

But check with your telecom provider....     because, apparently,  you're being blocked from getting any and all information on the 2019 Cleveland Browns.    Don't see the hype?

 

Do you know who they have drafted the last two years?    Who they traded for the last two years?   The free agents they signed the last two years?     And you don't see the hype?

 

Sure, this could blow up because they're gambling on a completely unproven head coach.   He's never been a HC before,  nor has he been a coordinator.    So, yes,  it could blow up.    But not because of a lack of talent.    Most teams in the NFL would kill for the Browns talent.

 

Goodness gracious,  they look loaded....  

 

I hope information starts getting through to you....  and when it does,  don't be surprised if your reaction is this.......         As in....  perhaps you'll change your mind about Cleveland....

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I have them winning the AFC North but then again what do I know 

[kountrykeith]

I don't know alot about all of their new talent on both sides of the ball. I know Kitchens coached below the coordinator position but I don't know much about his philosophy or his demeanor. I don't know if Mayfield is the real deal or not. I don't know what the win/loss record will be.

 

I do know this however, in the 20+ years I've been following this sport I have never seen a rookie HC in his first year with a new team shock the league. I believe it would take at least 8 games before the team can develop real chemistry on the field. Until that happens Freddie can have the best game plan and still come up short. 

 

My opinion only of course, I'm no expert. He might be the chosen one finally arrived but I am skeptical. My gut feeling is there were too many personnel moves at the same time as coaching / playbook / scheme changes. That might take awhile to get clicking.

 

[Myles]

15 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

They look good on paper but I'm skeptical of a team that signs and trades for a bunch of name players in a short time.  

I kind of feel the same.   The difference may be that the Browns were pretty solid with their own players already.  

My guess is 10 wins.  

[Four2itus]

18 hours ago, kountrykeith said:

I don't know alot about all of their new talent on both sides of the ball. I know Kitchens coached below the coordinator position but I don't know much about his philosophy or his demeanor. I don't know if Mayfield is the real deal or not. I don't know what the win/loss record will be.

 

I do know this however, in the 20+ years I've been following this sport I have never seen a rookie HC in his first year with a new team shock the league. I believe it would take at least 8 games before the team can develop real chemistry on the field. Until that happens Freddie can have the best game plan and still come up short. 

 

My opinion only of course, I'm no expert. He might be the chosen one finally arrived but I am skeptical. My gut feeling is there were too many personnel moves at the same time as coaching / playbook / scheme changes. That might take awhile to get clicking.

 

Ya, I can buy that. But they could also get another 2-3 wins on talent alone. If they do get 10 or more wins, Brown's fan will be happy for sure...and I'll be happy for them. 

 

When was the last time the Browns won that division?

[BertJones]

Paul DePodesta. Assistant to Billy Beane , the 2 originators of money-ball system.

 He's on the Browns office staff now.

 

chief strategy officer

[aaron11]

On 5/29/2019 at 4:58 AM, kountrykeith said:

I don't know alot about all of their new talent on both sides of the ball. I know Kitchens coached below the coordinator position but I don't know much about his philosophy or his demeanor. I don't know if Mayfield is the real deal or not. I don't know what the win/loss record will be.

 

I do know this however, in the 20+ years I've been following this sport I have never seen a rookie HC in his first year with a new team shock the league. I believe it would take at least 8 games before the team can develop real chemistry on the field. Until that happens Freddie can have the best game plan and still come up short. 

 

My opinion only of course, I'm no expert. He might be the chosen one finally arrived but I am skeptical. My gut feeling is there were too many personnel moves at the same time as coaching / playbook / scheme changes. That might take awhile to get clicking.

 

sean mcvay went 11-5 with the rams a few years ago.  youngest rookie head coach in quite some time too

[BertJones]

The whole taking time for chemistry  idea is a joke now. Teams don't need to gel over time anymore. 

Rams last year , Kaepernick -49ers, Eagles win SB with back up QB.

Worst to first is a joke that happens all the time now. 

[Valpo2004]

On 6/30/2019 at 5:25 AM, BertJones said:

Paul DePodesta. Assistant to Billy Beane , the 2 originators of money-ball system.

 He's on the Browns office staff now.

 

chief strategy officer

 

What the Browns are doing isn't "moneyball".  Moneyball means winning without big names.  Browns are loaded with big names.  

[Superman]

I don't find it hard to believe that the Browns will be better next year. But I am not buying them as serious contenders. 

 

Rookie head coach (not high on anyone's list as a HC candidate before last year, as far as I remember), added a couple of big names who aren't known for leading their teams to the playoffs, one is a prima donna, they added a really good RB who is suspended almost half the season (and was just linked to a bar fight over the weekend)... and their QB is an undersized loud mouth who has courted controversy almost nonstop. 

 

This team has major question marks. And it's not a team that has traditionally been a winner and has proven leadership at any critical position. They're a perennial cellar dweller that went 0-16 two years ago. It's not like we're expecting a bounce back year from the Packers or the Steelers, even though they have some questions to answer. This is the Browns, who haven't done anything right since they came back into the league. They have two winning seasons in the last 20 years; the last time they were above .500 was 11 years ago. Everyone's talking about them being improved last year, but they still only won 7 games.

 

They played one of the easiest schedules last season, and still had a negative point differential. That's a recipe for regression, not drastic improvement.

 

They also play in the most physical division in the league, competing against two teams that have set the tone for consistently physical plan.

 

Vegas set the over/under at 9 wins for the 2019 Browns. I'm not a gambler, but I'd take the under in a heartbeat. I honestly think every team in the AFC South is better than the Browns. Before I can pick them to win their own division, let's see them actually beat the Steelers or the Ravens for a change. I wouldn't even pick them to make the playoffs at this point.

[King Colt]

It was pointed out last season some of the losses were very close games. I hope they make it to the AFC championship game and lose to the Colts.

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, King Colt said:

It was pointed out last season some of the losses were very close games. I hope they make it to the AFC championship game and lose to the Colts.

 

How it usually goes is a bad team gets better, gets a wild card spot and maybe does something in the playoffs, then takes their lumps and tries to make moves to become a real contender. If you tell me the Browns can go 10-6 and maybe win a playoff game, I have no problem with that. But people are projecting them to go to the SB, which is crazy to me.

 

And that's without even discussing all the things I mentioned earlier, which make me very bearish on the Browns this year. I think incremental improvement is a real thing in sports. Going from bad to title contender in one year is extremely rare.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

How it usually goes is a bad team gets better, gets a wild card spot and maybe does something in the playoffs, then takes their lumps and tries to make moves to become a real contender. If you tell me the Browns can go 10-6 and maybe win a playoff game, I have no problem with that. But people are projecting them to go to the SB, which is crazy to me.

 

And that's without even discussing all the things I mentioned earlier, which make me very bearish on the Browns this year. I think incremental improvement is a real thing in sports. Going from bad to title contender in one year is extremely rare.

I have the Browns going 10-6 and winning their division but knowing football like I do, I have them losing in the playoffs in the 1st game because their QB is so young. I also have never seen them win anything big yet. Playoffs to me = prove it time. 10-6 sounds right to me and I think they can be slightly better than the Steelers and Ravens just based what I see on paper. 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have the Browns going 10-6 and winning their division but knowing football like I do, I have them losing in the playoffs in the 1st game because their QB is so young. I also have never seen them win anything big yet. Playoffs to me = prove it time. 10-6 sounds right to me and I think they can be slightly better than the Steelers and Ravens just based what I see on paper. 

 

See, I think the Ravens are serious. Like, 13-3 potential. I'm not a huge Lamar Jackson fan, but assuming they put him in an offense that allows him to be efficient, they should be okay on offense. The defense should continue to be fast and physical and set the tone, and that's what wins in the AFC North.

 

I understand not being sold on the Steelers, given the changes they're undergoing. But they have a WR pipeline and a vet QB, a good coach and GM, and a history of overcoming obstacles. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

See, I think the Ravens are serious. Like, 13-3 potential. I'm not a huge Lamar Jackson fan, but assuming they put him in an offense that allows him to be efficient, they should be okay on offense. The defense should continue to be fast and physical and set the tone, and that's what wins in the AFC North.

 

I understand not being sold on the Steelers, given the changes they're undergoing. But they have a WR pipeline and a vet QB, a good coach and GM, and a history of overcoming obstacles. 

Ravens do have a mean defense. Can Lamar stay healthy? That division is tough to predict because all 3 of those teams could go 10-6 IMO. Ben is getting older and his defense may not be able to help him like in the old days. No Brown either.

[IndyScribe]

Talented for sure but that locker room has a lot of egos. They're also in a good division with the Steelers and Ravens. I don't think Steelers drop off that much, even though they lost Bell and Brown. I think they'll be good (ie, playoff team), but not a lock for the SB. 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Bengals will win the AFC North.

 

1000% LOCK.

 

Gare-on-teed.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

Bengals will win the AFC North.

 

1000% LOCK.

 

Gare-on-teed.

Them and the Jags in the AFC Title game 

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 minutes ago, IndyScribe said:

Talented for sure but that locker room has a lot of egos. They're also in a good division with the Steelers and Ravens. I don't think Steelers drop off that much, even though they lost Bell and Brown. I think they'll be good (ie, playoff team), but not a lock for the SB. 

They have a lot of ego's but as of now they are my pick to win the AFC North, Colts will win the South, Pats will win the East, Chiefs will win the West. I say this as of now, it is only July 1st.

[Superman]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

They have a lot of ego's but as of now they are my pick to win the AFC North, Colts will win the South, Pats will win the East, Chiefs will win the West. I say this as of now, it is only July 1st.

 

I have the Chargers in the West. And while I think the Colts should be the best in the South, the Jaguars are serious.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Them and the Jags in the AFC Title game 

 

And the Pats go 0-16 with Brady throwing an NFL record 50 INTs...

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Superman said:

 

I have the Chargers in the West. And while I think the Colts should be the best in the South, the Jaguars are serious.

Between Chargers and Chiefs it will be close. I can't bet against Mahomes though. Chargers will no doubt be a WC team at worst.  

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Between Chargers and Chiefs it will be close. I can't bet against Mahomes though. Chargers will no doubt be a WC team at worst.  

 

I expect Mahomes and the Chiefs to have a slight regression, especially if Hill misses 4-6 games. I feel like the Chargers have the best roster in the league.

[BertJones]

4 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

What the Browns are doing isn't "moneyball".  Moneyball means winning without big names.  Browns are loaded with big names.  

 

I didn't say it ment that. But the fact is you still have a guy savvy at crunching numbers with front office experience. There's less football players then there are baseball players , so more guys appear to be big name players, or at least known of by a majority  of people. I'm sure he knows alot more about math  and numbers then most people here. 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I expect Mahomes and the Chiefs to have a slight regression, especially if Hill misses 4-6 games. I feel like the Chargers have the best roster in the league.

You may be right but I still think Mahomes will be a machine. Not as great as last year regarding 50 and 5000 but the Chiefs will win at least 11 games. It will come down to their 2 head to head matches. The Chargers are loaded and I actually have us losing on opening day playing them.

[BertJones]

31 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Them and the Jags in the AFC Title game 

Don't worry.  The league will easily make sure that never happens. 

[shakedownstreet]

The Browns will sacrifice a 2020 1st round pick for grossly over inflating their own balls 

[shakedownstreet]

On 7/1/2019 at 1:01 PM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

Bengals will win the AFC North.

 

And fail yet again to win a single playoff game. When the Bengals last enjoyed post season success Jeff George still had a mullet and was starting quarterback for the Colts

[shakedownstreet]

[Myles]

The Browns are a loaded team.   A very good sophomore QB.  Good RB's.   Very good WR's and TE's.  The O-line is solid.  The defense is good at almost every position.   It wouldn't be surprising to see them win 11-12 games.   I'll go with 10 wins.   

[WarGhost21]

I think the Browns are a bit overhyped as well. This offseason they really only added OBJ, and now for a lot of people they’re Super Bowl bound? One player cannot take a 7-8-1 team and put them over 10 wins. Sure, they also added Kareem Hunt, but he’s out for a while. I think reality is that their floor is 7 wins and ceiling is 10 wins 

[Coffeedrinker]

On 7/1/2019 at 12:21 PM, Superman said:

 

I expect Mahomes and the Chiefs to have a slight regression, especially if Hill misses 4-6 games. I feel like the Chargers have the best roster in the league.

What affect do you think it will have if Gordon sits out like he's threatening?