Ndamukong Suh?

[EastStreet]

.

[superrep1967]

On 5/6/2019 at 6:11 PM, DownHillRunner said:

Knowing Suh’s history, he’s not the kind of guy Ballard would want in our locker room.  Ballard should call up the Bucs and ask what is the price for Gerald McCoy. 

I agree I don't how he could fit in our locker room. I really don't see any way in hell this happens he's not a Ballard guy at all. 

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This, with Suh you just can't look at stats. What he does is, is opens things up for players around him because 1 person normally can't handle him.

yup. 

 

and i meant to say he won't want a 1 year prove it deal. i bet he'd reduce his yearly for a 2 year if it was fairly loaded.

[EastStreet]

Just now, superrep1967 said:

I agree I don't how he could fit in our locker room. I really don't see any way in hell this happens he's not a Ballard guy at all. 

We haven't heard a peep out of him (bad things) in several years.

Ballard brought in Kelly, was point person on, and drafted Hill (at KC), and even was quoted in an article lately that talked about a player with flags that they took (can't remember, but was posted in here somewhere).

 

If LAR coaches don't have negatives to say (and Ballard would know), it's all about the interview. 

[superrep1967]

2 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

We haven't heard a peep out of him (bad things) in several years.

Ballard brought in Kelly, was point person on, and drafted Hill (at KC), and even was quoted in an article lately that talked about a player with flags that they took (can't remember, but was posted in here somewhere).

 

If LAR coaches don't have negatives to say (and Ballard would know), it's all about the interview. 

Will see but I just don't see it happening but if Ballard really believes there a need there and if the price is something he feels comfortable with then maybe. If he really believes Suh could put us over the top maybe he pulls the trigger but I'm not holding my breath. 

[EastStreet]

11 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

Will see but I just don't see it happening but if Ballard really believes there a need there and if the price is something he feels comfortable with then maybe. If he really believes Suh could put us over the top maybe he pulls the trigger but I'm not holding my breath. 

I agree it's a long shot. And none of us know the behind the scenes current opinion of Suh. 

 

But... few on here would have believed Ballard would pay 10M for a FA WR, and then draft another in the early rounds. His actions didn't exactly support some of his comments on the WR position. 

 

I personally think it's possible (not necessarily Suh, but iDL in general) because 1) just about every talking head listed iDL as our biggest need (and I agree does the majority of the board via polls), and 2) we have the cap room.  

[AZColt11]

If they sign him I'll root for him and hope he is a good locker room guy.  I just don't think they NEED him that much and they can roll that cap space into next season instead.  He aint cheap.

[BlueCrew48]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This, with Suh you just can't look at stats. What he does is, is opens things up for players around him because 1 person normally can't handle him.

Agree with both of you.  He impacts the game with his presence, even if he isnt making tackles 

[Coltsman1788]

On 5/7/2019 at 8:29 AM, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

I've said this before, I'll say it again, the Colts don't have a need for a large run stuffing DT or NT or whatever you wanna call it. Flus system requires speedy guys that can get to the ball quickly. They were 8th in the league vs the run last year, and our major concern isn't stopping the run, it's beating Mahomes, Watson, and today's NFL. Offenses aren't Mike Ditka style anymore, the top teams are the ones with dynamic playcalling, and you need basically exactly what Ballard is drafting to combat that. They're playing world-class chess and we're on here playing checkers with some of the pieces missing. Idk why people think that we need a big DT to somehow complete this team? If it were that monumental of a need, don't you think Ballard would have addressed it at least ONCE? 

It’s not the Houston’s of the world that concern us regarding the run defense.  Sure our defense holds up good against teams like that.  However....what happens come playoff time?  Our defense that did not yield 100 yards rushing to any running back all season long was gashed in Kansas City and all those pretty stats went up in the smoke of another playoff dismissal that looked errily similar to playoff exits past.   Do you trust this under sized interior defensive line against that New England Patriots offensive line and running game in Foxboro snow come January?  I sure don’t.  They have Sony Michel and in case you missed it added a tough running hammer of a running back from Alabama in the draft.  They will force their will and run the football.  Especially when they face the Colts because they know that we are unable to stand up to the pounding.  Those wishing for more beef along the interior defensive line are thinking about our post season nightmares...not regular season accolades against weaker opponents.  

[Dark Superman]

Even though Suh to the Colts is highly unlikely. If the Colts did land Suh, I wouldn't be mad. Lol.

[Four2itus]

I'll bet that over the years, there have been more than 1000 posts in different years about the Colts acquiring this player. I think fans just like to picture the unlikely. 

[krunk]

We probably won't get him because of the money and the age, but I wouldn't mind if we did. If he could make the money demand more acceptable that is.  I'd love to see him playing back on the turf inside of the dome like it was in Detroit.  Would like to see him playing on the carpet again.

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

On 5/9/2019 at 1:30 PM, Coltsman1788 said:

It’s not the Houston’s of the world that concern us regarding the run defense.  Sure our defense holds up good against teams like that.  However....what happens come playoff time?  Our defense that did not yield 100 yards rushing to any running back all season long was gashed in Kansas City and all those pretty stats went up in the smoke of another playoff dismissal that looked errily similar to playoff exits past.   Do you trust this under sized interior defensive line against that New England Patriots offensive line and running game in Foxboro snow come January?  I sure don’t.  They have Sony Michel and in case you missed it added a tough running hammer of a running back from Alabama in the draft.  They will force their will and run the football.  Especially when they face the Colts because they know that we are unable to stand up to the pounding.  Those wishing for more beef along the interior defensive line are thinking about our post season nightmares...not regular season accolades against weaker opponents.  

 

I trust that Ballard and Reich know what they're doing more than you, yes. I know that's hard to imagine for some of you guys on here. They have a plan. They are building a defense full of hybrid, ultra athletic, players that can do everything. Blitz, cover, block, not just some single designation fat guy that can only stuff the run. You put that jumbo package in and Mahomes just scrambles around and hits Tyreek/Mecole for a 50 yard bomb, lotta good that dude did. The game's evolving, and they're evolving with it. You have to have a multi-faceted defensive scheme in today's NFL, that's obviously what they're going for. Time will tell if it's the right approach, but I for one love what they're doing. 

[AZColt11]

1 hour ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

I trust that Ballard and Reich know what they're doing more than you, yes. I know that's hard to imagine for some of you guys on here. They have a plan. They are building a defense full of hybrid, ultra athletic, players that can do everything. Blitz, cover, block, not just some single designation fat guy that can only stuff the run. You put that jumbo package in and Mahomes just scrambles around and hits Tyreek/Mecole for a 50 yard bomb, lotta good that dude did. The game's evolving, and they're evolving with it. You have to have a multi-faceted defensive scheme in today's NFL, that's obviously what they're going for. Time will tell if it's the right approach, but I for one love what they're doing. 

Moreover, Ballard is building this team for 5, 10 years down the road, not just this season.  If he doesn't get that big, run-stuffing DT this season he knows he will soon and do it cheaper and younger.  Stability over the long-haul is the key.  I know everybody wants to go all-in for this year but that's not how it's going down.  And they MAY just be good enough this year anyway.

[jshipp23]

You would be a fool to not want Suh..We have plenty of cap to use on a 1 or 2 yr deal that won't affect cap in long run..He was Rams best player in playoffs and will help us stop the run and get pressure up the middle..There will be injuries too, always is and he is a nice horse to have in the stable...Could be the difference on defense..

[Matthew Gilbert]

14 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

He was Rams best player in playoffs

Exactly. He was average in the reg season but back to being an elite player in the playoffs. If we scooped him for the playoffs I'd be all in, but that's an unlikely scenario. 

[Coltsman1788]

14 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

I trust that Ballard and Reich know what they're doing more than you, yes. I know that's hard to imagine for some of you guys on here. They have a plan. They are building a defense full of hybrid, ultra athletic, players that can do everything. Blitz, cover, block, not just some single designation fat guy that can only stuff the run. You put that jumbo package in and Mahomes just scrambles around and hits Tyreek/Mecole for a 50 yard bomb, lotta good that dude did. The game's evolving, and they're evolving with it. You have to have a multi-faceted defensive scheme in today's NFL, that's obviously what they're going for. Time will tell if it's the right approach, but I for one love what they're doing. 

First of all, I never said I know more than Chris Ballard. You have asked why some Colts fans feel like we want a guy like Suh or a big fatty on the DL and I gave my opinion to you.  

 

Secondly, adding a competent big DT makes our line more flexible not less so.  It would give us even more ability to match up and adjust to our opponent given the game situation. Putting a big fatty in there in an obvious passing situation as you alluded to in your quoted post is just as ridiculous as putting undersized DTs in for 3rd & goal from the one yard line.  

 

Finally, just because Ballard hasn’t added any beef to the line as of yet doesn’t mean that he won’t at some point. If he didn’t  think we needed some size along the front in some situations then why is Grover Stewart still on the roster?  Maybe Ballard just wants to see if Grover can fulfill that role first.  Grover is still an unknown quantity for me so I’m a little uneasy until shown otherwise.  I know that someone like Suh would eliminate that concern.  Yet I also know that there are other factors to consider with him.

 

I support how Ballard is building the defense overall.  All I’m saying is I want the ability to adjust to teams that are determined to run the ball down our throats in the playoffs  because that is always how our season ends.  I’m sick of that script personally.  

 

And if our upcoming season ends again with a team like the Patriots running the ball down our collective throats, you will probably be one of those Colts fans looking all shocked and surprised.  I’ll just remind you then that it’s the same thing that always happens to our Colts on their way out the door.  

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

1 hour ago, Coltsman1788 said:

First of all, I never said I know more than Chris Ballard. You have asked why some Colts fans feel like we want a guy like Suh or a big fatty on the DL and I gave my opinion to you.  

 

Secondly, adding a competent big DT makes our line more flexible not less so.  It would give us even more ability to match up and adjust to our opponent given the game situation. Putting a big fatty in there in an obvious passing situation as you alluded to in your quoted post is just as ridiculous as putting undersized DTs in for 3rd & goal from the one yard line.  

 

Finally, just because Ballard hasn’t added any beef to the line as of yet doesn’t mean that he won’t at some point. If he didn’t  think we needed some size along the front in some situations then why is Grover Stewart still on the roster?  Maybe Ballard just wants to see if Grover can fulfill that role first.  Grover is still an unknown quantity for me so I’m a little uneasy until shown otherwise.  I know that someone like Suh would eliminate that concern.  Yet I also know that there are other factors to consider with him.

 

I support how Ballard is building the defense overall.  All I’m saying is I want the ability to adjust to teams that are determined to run the ball down our throats in the playoffs  because that is always how our season ends.  I’m sick of that script personally.  

 

And if our upcoming season ends again with a team like the Patriots running the ball down our collective throats, you will probably be one of those Colts fans looking all shocked and surprised.  I’ll just remind you then that it’s the same thing that always happens to our Colts on their way out the door.  

 

You think that's why they lost to the Chiefs? I think that was like the 4th or 5th most glaring need identified in the Chiefs game (Ballard has addressed the others). And again, you may not realize it, but by saying you've identified the reason we get eliminated in the playoffs, and that Ballard, Reich, Flus, Irsay, whoever can't recognize that, you're inherently saying you know better than them. And I know, you're gonna say "They could still address it later." But, if it were the paramount concern, or even a major concern, on Ballard or anyone's mind, wouldn't they have addressed it in the draft or in FA by now? You don't let something that you truly think is hindering your team just go unchecked. Ballard isn't Grigson man

[CoachLite]

Bringing in someone like Suh isn't a simple 'no-brainer'. There are a lot of factors to consider, and at this stage of the game those factors are more subtle than FAs considered earlier on. In coarse terms it is a cost/benefit analysis, where the costs are not just in terms of money.

 

Whatever decision re: Suh (or anyone else at this point) is made, it will be a difficult decision. As a fan, you can just flip a coin. As a GM or coach, not so. That's why the FO earns the big bucks.

[jshipp23]

13 hours ago, Matthew Gilbert said:

Exactly. He was average in the reg season but back to being an elite player in the playoffs. If we scooped him for the playoffs I'd be all in, but that's an unlikely scenario. 

Suh's average is still better than anything we have at that position..Odds are he would prosper in the culture we have here and we would get his best in my opinion..

[Coltsman1788]

2 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

You think that's why they lost to the Chiefs? I think that was like the 4th or 5th most glaring need identified in the Chiefs game (Ballard has addressed the others). And again, you may not realize it, but by saying you've identified the reason we get eliminated in the playoffs, and that Ballard, Reich, Flus, Irsay, whoever can't recognize that, you're inherently saying you know better than them. And I know, you're gonna say "They could still address it later." But, if it were the paramount concern, or even a major concern, on Ballard or anyone's mind, wouldn't they have addressed it in the draft or in FA by now? You don't let something that you truly think is hindering your team just go unchecked. Ballard isn't Grigson man

You don’t have to tell me that Ballard isn’t Griggson. I never implied that he was and would never utter or fix my fingers to type such foolishness.   I respect Ballard and acknowledge that he knows more than any poster on here.  That’s a given.  Still as a Colts fan I have my own opinion and thoughts on things.  While I hold Ballard in high regard as most here do.  I also don’t put him on a pedestal and consider him to be infallible.  I don’t have to agree with his every single move or decision to support what he is doing overall...which has been fantastic. I’m secure enough to say that.  Not that I know better than he does because we all know that none of us has his knowledge of the inner workings of the league or Colts franchise.  Yet  I still have my own mind, eyes, thoughts and opinions that may sometimes differ from what Ballard does.  And that’s ok for a message board poster.  If we just want to sit around here and have every one agree with Ballard about everything all day...what the heck are we even here for?  

 

For the record, I believe we lost to Kansas City because we got beat in the trenches on both sides of the ball.  Our run defense was gashed and K.C. ran for over 100 yards & 3 rushing TDS to control the game.  Our “improved” run defense failed us when it counted most.  We also lost because we had no one who could cover Travis Kelsey.  Finally, Luck and the offense played like trash that game.  Mahoney didn’t really go off against us like he is capable of doing...but he really didn’t have to.  He got what he needed without much difficulty.  

 

 

[dw49]

16 hours ago, Matthew Gilbert said:

Exactly. He was average in the reg season but back to being an elite player in the playoffs. If we scooped him for the playoffs I'd be all in, but that's an unlikely scenario. 

 

How would you accomplish that ? I guess there are a few crazy scenarios.

[dw49]

To me it's a matter of either spending around 10 mill on Suh for 2019 or do you use that "Suh money" to maybe extend one of our young guys ? We no doubt have the cap money and room to add him.He would help us short term and I don't see where he is really a big risk character wise. I think I would do it as it appears we have a legitimate chance of advancing deep into post season.

[Matthew Gilbert]

3 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

Suh's average is still better than anything we have at that position..Odds are he would prosper in the culture we have here and we would get his best in my opinion..

I'm not against bringing in Suh. I've always liked the player. When motivated, he can still treat an O-Linemen like a ragdoll. He's already made a ton of money, and it seems like he's at that stage in his career where he just wants a ring. Maybe we could get the best out of him. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I do not see 1 downside in bringing in Suh. He is a player now that is playing for a ring, has probably 1 or 2 years left at best, and we have the cap space to sign him. He is still a good football player and can plug up the middle and free our ends up to run wild. He hasn't even had an incident since the 2014 Season when he stepped on Rodgers leg. He isn't going to ruin our locker room, so just get that out of your heads if you think that. We have plenty of high character guys on this team and Suh is just looking for a ring and a great group of guys to play with at this point IMO. I love a speedy defense in which we are going for but it is good when you have 2 or 3 guys that can clog the middle. Suh most likely will be a Hall of Famer and would make a solid impact on our team.

[SaturdayAllDay]

40 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I do not see 1 downside in bringing in Suh. He is a player now that is playing for a ring, has probably 1 or 2 years left at best, and we have the cap space to sign him. He is still a good football player and can plug up the middle and free our ends up to run wild. He hasn't even had an incident since the 2014 Season when he stepped on Rodgers leg. He isn't going to ruin our locker room, so just get that out of your heads if you think that. We have plenty of high character guys on this team and Suh is just looking for a ring and a great group of guys to play with at this point IMO. I love a speedy defense in which we are going for but it is good when you have 2 or 3 guys that can clog the middle. Suh most likely will be a Hall of Famer and would make a solid impact on our team.

 

This article is from last offseason. 

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article204707034.html

 

"But it’s also because Suh was a fine individual player who was never really a team guy as far as the Dolphins were concerned"

 

"But they struggled because too often the individuals played for themselves instead of with each other.

And the most prominent individualist on the Dolphins defense? Ndamukong Suh."

 

Its not so much about him being a dirty player or a locker room issue, its that he doesnt fit our teams culture, which seems to be one of the biggest criteria to Ballard. He keeps talking about "team first guys that can buy in to what we are doing". That is 100% not Suh. 

Suh signing here would be the exact opposite of everything Ballard has been preaching since the day he walked in and I just dont see it happening. 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

20 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

 

This article is from last offseason. 

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article204707034.html

 

"But it’s also because Suh was a fine individual player who was never really a team guy as far as the Dolphins were concerned"

 

"But they struggled because too often the individuals played for themselves instead of with each other.

And the most prominent individualist on the Dolphins defense? Ndamukong Suh."

 

Its not so much about him being a dirty player or a locker room issue, its that he doesnt fit our teams culture, which seems to be one of the biggest criteria to Ballard. He keeps talking about "team first guys that can buy in to what we are doing". That is 100% not Suh. 

Suh signing here would be the exact opposite of everything Ballard has been preaching since the day he walked in and I just dont see it happening. 

 

I will agree that it probably will not happen because that isn't Ballard's style but me personally I would be ok with the signing. Having said that I trust Ballard and he knows way more than me.

[MikeCurtis]

IMHO..... Prolly not gonna happen

 

Suh seems to be the anti team (more ME) kinda guy, that we want to stay away from

 

A 31 year old selfish dude can do a ton of damage behind the scenes with the youngsters

 

 

 

 

 

I do think we need to bolster the line at 1 tech, but I would like to see what the current crew looks like in preseason......

 

We need a rotational body that can push the pocket a bit from 1 tech, someone who can hold up for 2 downs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard pallo]

4 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

 

This article is from last offseason. 

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article204707034.html

 

"But it’s also because Suh was a fine individual player who was never really a team guy as far as the Dolphins were concerned"

 

"But they struggled because too often the individuals played for themselves instead of with each other.

And the most prominent individualist on the Dolphins defense? Ndamukong Suh."

 

Its not so much about him being a dirty player or a locker room issue, its that he doesnt fit our teams culture, which seems to be one of the biggest criteria to Ballard. He keeps talking about "team first guys that can buy in to what we are doing". That is 100% not Suh. 

Suh signing here would be the exact opposite of everything Ballard has been preaching since the day he walked in and I just dont see it happening. 

 

I agree it's probably not going to happen but the Dolphin situation was unique.  You bring in a high priced FA to a team with no leadership in place and he becomes the leader automatically by default.  Inevitable.  He goes to the Rams and no problem.  He blended right in.  I could see that happening with the Colts.  He wants a ring.  All he has to do is play like he's capable of playing and he might just get it.  I really don't see much down side.  If he buys in and if he really wants a ring he should be able to buy in then we should be okay.  I trust Ballard here.  Let him check him out and see what happens.  

[SaturdayAllDay]

6 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I agree it's probably not going to happen but the Dolphin situation was unique.  You bring in a high priced FA to a team with no leadership in place and he becomes the leader automatically by default.  Inevitable.  He goes to the Rams and no problem.  He blended right in.  I could see that happening with the Colts.  He wants a ring.  All he has to do is play like he's capable of playing and he might just get it.  I really don't see much down side.  If he buys in and if he really wants a ring he should be able to buy in then we should be okay.  I trust Ballard here.  Let him check him out and see what happens.  

Sure he did well on a top team that went all the way to the superbowl, but lets say we start off slow and are 1-3 after 4 weeks.

You confident that he will be giving 100% and not complaining?? 

 

That same story I posted above seems to have the most obvious answer:

 

"It’s not right or fair to say Suh was a bad apple. Well, in 2015 he was a bad apple. No one in the Dolphins building liked him. In 2016, he got better. And in 2017 he worked toward being better still.

 

But at his core, Suh is about ... Suh.

 

So when something was not ideal for him, he checked into 2015 mode and left the better 2017 version Suh behind."

 

Id be very worried about bringing in a player that will only "buy in" if things are going exactly the way he wants them to, especially with a young team that was fairly inconsistent last yr. 

[Dark Superman]

Even at the age of 31 Ndamukong Suh is a different kind of beast.

[horseshoecrabs]

Suh, realistically will probably not be considered on Ballard's radar for us. But I was visualizing, if he was, could it help us for now. In the past I thought he was a good player but, his asking price was not worth it. I'd only want him if the price was right, and only short term. At this point in his career, It's possible that he realizes that he can't get big money anymore, but with the culture to develop young players that Ballard wants in our organization, I doubt that he would be someone that fits our needs.     

[Four2itus]

It seems to me that fans sometimes refuse to listen to what Ballard has said about building a locker room. 

 

Wanting Suh screams in the face of nearly everything Ballard has shared in his "locker room" building philosophy. To be literal, Suh is the antithesis of what kind of FA I believe CB would sign, not to mention the timing (noting where the franchise building is at in the long term time line).  

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Four2itus said:

It seems to me that fans sometimes refuse to listen to what Ballard has said about building a locker room. 

 

Wanting Suh screams in the face of nearly everything Ballard has shared in his "locker room" building philosophy. To be literal, Suh is the antithesis of what kind of FA I believe CB would sign, not to mention the timing (noting where the franchise building is at in the long term time line).  

 

Thank You!!    Just thank you!!

[NewColtsFan]

On 5/11/2019 at 3:42 PM, richard pallo said:

I agree it's probably not going to happen but the Dolphin situation was unique.  You bring in a high priced FA to a team with no leadership in place and he becomes the leader automatically by default.  Inevitable.  He goes to the Rams and no problem.  He blended right in.  I could see that happening with the Colts.  He wants a ring.  All he has to do is play like he's capable of playing and he might just get it.  I really don't see much down side.  If he buys in and if he really wants a ring he should be able to buy in then we should be okay.  I trust Ballard here.  Let him check him out and see what happens.  

 

He wants a ring?    Seriously?

 

The only thing he wants is more money!

 

If all he wanted was a ring, he’d lower his asking price and simply stay with the Rams.   Or join another contending team.    Suh is driven by the dollar, and if he can collect a ring along the way... good for him. 

[MikeCurtis]

On 5/12/2019 at 12:00 AM, SaturdayAllDay said:

 

 

But at his core, Suh is about ... Suh.

 

 

This........

[jskinnz]

On 5/11/2019 at 6:42 PM, richard pallo said:

I agree it's probably not going to happen but the Dolphin situation was unique.  You bring in a high priced FA to a team with no leadership in place and he becomes the leader automatically by default.  Inevitable.  He goes to the Rams and no problem.  He blended right in.  I could see that happening with the Colts.  He wants a ring.  All he has to do is play like he's capable of playing and he might just get it.  I really don't see much down side.  If he buys in and if he really wants a ring he should be able to buy in then we should be okay.  I trust Ballard here.  Let him check him out and see what happens.  

 

Still aiming for the Blutarksy in your analysis % I see.

 

[MikeCurtis]

3 hours ago, jskinnz said:

Blutarksy 

 

What is a Blutarksy ?

 

Just curious

[jskinnz]

43 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

What is a Blutarksy ?

 

Just curious

 

Belushi's character in Animal House.  You know the scene in which the Dean read's off the GPAs of the frat guys and gets to Blutarsky and says "0.00."

 

It is an admitted stretch but as I tell my wife all the time - "sometimes the jokes are just for me."

[rock8591]

IMO Bennie Logan would be a good add.

 

Unlike Wilkerson or Suh, unlikely to command a large salary at all, very solid rotational player, good locker room presence.