Raiders wanting to trade Cooper? [Merge]

[The Fish]

This get's to the question that other thread's OP asked, and what I've been wondering. How patient is Ballard going to be with this rebuild, realizing that we're floundering while having elite QB play. That really shouldn't happen. With a middle of the road roster, Luck is going to win more often than 1 out of 6. We can't wait 2 more years to get to the middle.

 I still blame Grigson.

I'm a fan, so I want some moves made. Send a 2nd or 3rd off for Cooper. He can play. We won't be wondering if he makes the roster.

[HectorRoberts]

Anything is better than Rogers at this point!

[IinD]

Our guys drop passes they're bums, other teams rejects drop passes, it's the system or the team regressing.. Lol.

 

I love football fans.

[DiogoZ]

A good read about the "struggles" of Cooper

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/09/nfl-raiders-amari-cooper-fantasy-football-jon-gruden-derek-carr

[MPStack]

I’ve regressed as a fan! 

[MTC]

Even though Amari Cooper is 24, he drops a ton of passes, which is the opposite of what we need right now. 

 

I would not trade anything over a 5th round pick for him.

[Mitch Connors]

TY Hilton catches 57% of passes thrown to him.

Amari Cooper catches 58% of passes thrown to him. 

 

Does it matter how many drops a player has if they catch a higher % of passes thrown to them? 

 

I'm not suggesting Cooper is better than Hilton but, statistically speaking, Cooper is a more reliable target by 1%. You could argue depth of target, the accuracy of the QB (Luck 59% vs Carr 62%), scheme, etc but that would mean a lot more than Coooper dropping a pass, right?

 

 

 

[Myles]

18 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

TY Hilton catches 57% of passes thrown to him.

Amari Cooper catches 58% of passes thrown to him. 

 

Does it matter how many drops a player has if they catch a higher % of passes thrown to them? 

 

I'm not suggesting Cooper is better than Hilton but, statistically speaking, Cooper is a more reliable target by 1%. You could argue depth of target, the accuracy of the QB (Luck 59% vs Carr 62%), scheme, etc but that would mean a lot more than Coooper dropping a pass, right?

 

 

 

He does have a good catch %.   Especially for a guy who is targeted deeper than most. 

 

At only 24, I'd throw a 2nd rounder for him. 

 

Overview

As a junior in 2014, he was the winner of the Biletnikoff Award, which goes to the nation's most outstanding receiver and was a finalist for the Heisman Trophy. He was a unanimous first-team All-American and was SEC Offensive Player of the Year. Led the nation in receptions (124) and finished second in yards (1,727) and touchdown receptions (16). Played in 40 games in his three-year Alabama career, starting 30 games and hauling in 31 touchdown receptions. Hampered by foot and toe injuries during sophomore season, but finished season with a flourish. He caught 15 passes for 299 yards in the final two games of the season, including a 99-yard touchdown reception. As a freshman in 2012, he earned consensus Freshman All-America honors. Following his senior season at Northwestern High School in Miami, Fla., Cooper shined in the Under Armour All-America Game where he had a 75-yard touchdown grab and a 93-yard punt return for a score. Was rated a top-50 prospect in the nation by Rivals.

 

Pro Day Results

Vertical jump: 34 inches

Analysis

Strengths

Asked to become a dominant offensive threat and did so. Accelerates to top speed and stays there at the top of his routes. Consistently able to get defenders leaning before breaking them off in the other direction. Owned the post route. Play speed includes a second gear. Good feel for traffic on crossers and is able to adjust and avoid the big hit. Unafraid to work the middle and secures the tough catch in traffic. Sticks it and gets it out of breaks, creating instant separation. Not content to sit in zone as covered target. Works to make himself presentable to quarterback. Competes hard and makes big plays in big games. Worked outside and from slot and varies his route speed. Tracks the ball well and has burst to run under and finish for six. Caught absolutely everything during NFL Scouting combine workout.

Weaknesses

Needs to finish routes. Will stop or occasionally adjust route, putting quarterback in danger of an interception. Can improve use of body to shield defenders from the ball. Run blocking can improve. Could use a little more fire in that department. Focus drops have been an issue at times, dropping 13 passes over the last two seasons.

Draft Projection

Round 1 (top 10)

Sources Tell Us

"Amari is super athletic, very fluid and highly skilled as a route runner and hands catcher. Because of his reserved demeanor and similar ability, I compared him to Marvin Harrison during the season." -- Former NFL GM and current Reese's Senior Bowl Executive Director Phil Savage

NFL Comparison

Marvin Harrison

[richard pallo]

7 minutes ago, Myles said:

He does have a good catch %.   Especially for a guy who is targeted deeper than most. 

 

At only 24, I'd throw a 2nd rounder for him. 

 

Overview

As a junior in 2014, he was the winner of the Biletnikoff Award, which goes to the nation's most outstanding receiver and was a finalist for the Heisman Trophy. He was a unanimous first-team All-American and was SEC Offensive Player of the Year. Led the nation in receptions (124) and finished second in yards (1,727) and touchdown receptions (16). Played in 40 games in his three-year Alabama career, starting 30 games and hauling in 31 touchdown receptions. Hampered by foot and toe injuries during sophomore season, but finished season with a flourish. He caught 15 passes for 299 yards in the final two games of the season, including a 99-yard touchdown reception. As a freshman in 2012, he earned consensus Freshman All-America honors. Following his senior season at Northwestern High School in Miami, Fla., Cooper shined in the Under Armour All-America Game where he had a 75-yard touchdown grab and a 93-yard punt return for a score. Was rated a top-50 prospect in the nation by Rivals.

 

Pro Day Results

Vertical jump: 34 inches

Analysis

Strengths

Asked to become a dominant offensive threat and did so. Accelerates to top speed and stays there at the top of his routes. Consistently able to get defenders leaning before breaking them off in the other direction. Owned the post route. Play speed includes a second gear. Good feel for traffic on crossers and is able to adjust and avoid the big hit. Unafraid to work the middle and secures the tough catch in traffic. Sticks it and gets it out of breaks, creating instant separation. Not content to sit in zone as covered target. Works to make himself presentable to quarterback. Competes hard and makes big plays in big games. Worked outside and from slot and varies his route speed. Tracks the ball well and has burst to run under and finish for six. Caught absolutely everything during NFL Scouting combine workout.

Weaknesses

Needs to finish routes. Will stop or occasionally adjust route, putting quarterback in danger of an interception. Can improve use of body to shield defenders from the ball. Run blocking can improve. Could use a little more fire in that department. Focus drops have been an issue at times, dropping 13 passes over the last two seasons.

Draft Projection

Round 1 (top 10)

Sources Tell Us

"Amari is super athletic, very fluid and highly skilled as a route runner and hands catcher. Because of his reserved demeanor and similar ability, I compared him to Marvin Harrison during the season." -- Former NFL GM and current Reese's Senior Bowl Executive Director Phil Savage

NFL Comparison

Marvin Harrison

Marvin Harrison!  That's it I'm sold.  Give them a 2nd. rounder.  Would love to see him and TY out there together. 

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Marvin Harrison!  That's it I'm sold.  Give them a 2nd. rounder.  Would love to see him and TY out there together. 

I seen that too.  I don't buy it much.

What I do see is that he was touted as a very good WR and was taken with a 1st round pick as most of the "experts" thought he would.   He hasn't been a bust in the NFL.   I'd be happy to provide him a change of scenery.

[Mr.Debonair]

He’s inconsistent from week to week. However he is still someone capable of taking over a game with 100+ yards and multiple TDS. He is some that is to be feared along with TY. Nobody is fearful of the Bad News Bears that are at WR now

[Finball]

Actually, because of his reserved demeanor, I'm not sure if the kid has enough drive, the 'it' factor or whatever you want to call it. He's talented for sure but has bad tendency to disappear way too often. And it seems like he doesn't really care that much. Personally, not interested giving up day 2 pick for him.. So.. not interested.

[pgt_rob]

The Raiders say Amari is not on the trade block.

[Mr.Debonair]

13 minutes ago, Finball said:

Actually, because of his reserved demeanor, I'm not sure if the kid has enough drive, the 'it' factor or whatever you want to call it. He's talented for sure but has bad tendency to disappear way too often. And it seems like he doesn't really care that much. Personally, not interested giving up day 2 pick for him.. So.. not interested.

His demeanor has nothing to do with his play. Stop with the assumptions 

[DiogoZ]

49 minutes ago, Myles said:

I seen that too.  I don't buy it much.

What I do see is that he was touted as a very good WR and was taken with a 1st round pick as most of the "experts" thought he would.   He hasn't been a bust in the NFL.   I'd be happy to provide him a change of scenery.

Exactly, the most recent case is Ebron. The guy was not that very productive when playing for the lions, but when he got here, things changed a lot for him.

I see Cooper as the same scenario.

[Finball]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

His demeanor has nothing to do with his play. Stop with the assumptions 

 

It can be related to his lack of drive and disappearing acts and how he hasn't really shown much improvement since coming into this league.

[Myles]

22 minutes ago, DiogoZ said:

Exactly, the most recent case is Ebron. The guy was not that very productive when playing for the lions, but when he got here, things changed a lot for him.

I see Cooper as the same scenario.

I agree and I would say Cooper has less risk.   Cooper at least has been productive for some time with the Raiders.     

[ColtV]

Cooper's statistical fall directly correlates to Derek Carr's injury and return from that injury. I have zero concerns over his ability. Throw in the fact that the Raiders are in fire sale mode now, Ballard has to seriously consider kicking the tires here

[Jared Jammer]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2800787-likely-landing-spots-trade-packages-for-raiders-star-amari-cooper#slide0

 

Take a wild guess who the first team they mention is . . .

[coltsfansince65]

Isn't he currently in concussion protocol?  I thought he left the game with a concussion this weekend.

[coltfaninnewyork]

Just came up on update raiders want a one ,that should eliminate us from discussion.

[Lawrence Owen]

3rd or less, then yes. At least that's my opinion..which doesn't count for squat.  I think Ballard is more likely to go after Cooper than he has for Gordon because Cooper does not have the off the field issues.  And Coopers numbers the last couple years are not going to land him the 14-15 mil/year contract.  He could be a great pick up, and if we front heavy an extension...it really would not cost us as much as people would think in the long term.

[jameszeigler834]

22 hours ago, Trueman said:

He's got a 5th year option after this season for 14 million. We'd be getting almost no cost control and term. I like his age , but not his contract. 

It would have to be for like a 4th round pick for me to be interested , and I doubt Gruden would move him for that.  

 

They want a first round pick not going to happen and I hope not.

[richard pallo]

20 minutes ago, coltfaninnewyork said:

Just came up on update raiders want a one ,that should eliminate us from discussion.

It shouldn't.  Everyone asks high when they're selling.  You can always go down.  Shoot for the moon then let reality sets in.  I can't believe Ballard actually thinks he can rebuild the roster primarily through the draft.  Harrison, James and Freeney were all No. 1's.  And we need all three position groups now.  He can make a fair trade here and solve one of those needs immediately.  It's time for him to take advantage of our resources and make a move to immediately improve this team right now. 

[coltfaninnewyork]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

It shouldn't.  Everyone asks high when they're selling.  You can always go down.  Shoot for the moon then let reality sets in.  I can't believe Ballard actually thinks he can rebuild the roster primarily through the draft.  Harrison, James and Freeney were all No. 1's.  And we need all three position groups now.  He can make a fair trade here and solve one of those needs immediately.  It's time for him to take advantage of our resources and make a move to immediately improve this team right now. 

I agree ,but our number one might be in top 3.if they would take a second I Would make the deal .

[krunk]

Ballard won't do that deal.  Not for a 1st rounder.

 

[richard pallo]

Luck is 27,  Bell is 27 and Ballard signed a good one in Ebron and he's 25.  Cooper is 24 and a former 1st. rounder like Ebron.   Ballard should go get Cooper even for a 2nd.  We can get at least a 2nd. back when we trade Brissett.   The time is now to do this deal.  Accelerate the rebuild. 

[DougDew]

On 10/15/2018 at 1:32 PM, Myles said:

He does have a good catch %.   Especially for a guy who is targeted deeper than most. 

 

 

That's what I was thinking.  The types of targets matters.  He was a 1st round choice, so i assume he has good/great speed.  And I think he was used as OAKs deep threat, much like TY.

 

I think he has value as a WR. 

 

The issue is that I don't know if WRs are valued that highly in this O.  Ball control targets and YAC seems the desired profile, not another TY.

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Luck is 27,  Bell is 27 and Ballard signed a good one in Ebron and he's 25.  Cooper is 24 and a former 1st. rounder like Ebron.   Ballard should go get Cooper even for a 2nd.  We can get at least a 2nd. back when we trade Brissett.   The time is now to do this deal.  Accelerate the rebuild. 

Impossible to know if brisset would bring a second.   That's a generous guess at best

[#12.]

Luck is 27,

 

Luck will be 30 next season.

 

Peyton was 30 when we won it in 2006.  People thought he was old at the time.  In fact, I think he was fairly old for a first time winner.

[Myles]

11 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Luck is 27,  Bell is 27 and Ballard signed a good one in Ebron and he's 25.  Cooper is 24 and a former 1st. rounder like Ebron.   Ballard should go get Cooper even for a 2nd.  We can get at least a 2nd. back when we trade Brissett.   The time is now to do this deal.  Accelerate the rebuild. 

That is optimistic.   I think there may be a chance we can get a second, but saying "at least a 2nd" is silly.  

[Myles]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

That's what I was thinking.  The types of targets matters.  He was a 1st round choice, so i assume he has good/great speed.  And I think he was used as OAKs deep threat, much like TY.

 

I think he has value as a WR. 

 

The issue is that I don't know if WRs are valued that highly in this O.  Ball control targets and YAC seems the desired profile, not another TY.

I think people overvalue draft picks most of the time.   Some people saying things like - "I wouldn't give a 2nd for Cooper".   What are the odds of getting a WR of Coopers caliber in the 2nd round next year?   Maybe you feel the GM can evaluate talent very well.   So maybe it's a 60% chance.   That still leaves 40% to fail.   Take the known commodity and let someone else have the risk.  

However, it is different with good 1st round picks. 

[will426]

Had a few bad drops but coopers legit route runner who gets open..unfortunately ever since the raiders had that great year CARR has thrown like complete garbage lol I’d blame him over the offensive struggle on the raiders..cooper still has better skills and proven stats than any other receiver we have other than Hilton i wouldn’t trade for him at this point tho 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think people overvalue draft picks most of the time.   Some people saying things like - "I wouldn't give a 2nd for Cooper".   What are the odds of getting a WR of Coopers caliber in the 2nd round next year?   Maybe you feel the GM can evaluate talent very well.   So maybe it's a 60% chance.   That still leaves 40% to fail.   Take the known commodity and let someone else have the risk.  

However, it is different with good 1st round picks. 

I don't like using high picks on a veteran, but you make a compelling case.  Its just that our two seconds are going to be high in the round, so I think I'd stand pat and offer Gruden our 3, provided I thought he could adjust from the TY role to the Reggie role.

[buccolts]

20 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think people overvalue draft picks most of the time.   Some people saying things like - "I wouldn't give a 2nd for Cooper".   What are the odds of getting a WR of Coopers caliber in the 2nd round next year?   Maybe you feel the GM can evaluate talent very well.   So maybe it's a 60% chance.   That still leaves 40% to fail.   Take the known commodity and let someone else have the risk.  

However, it is different with good 1st round picks. 

 

No, someone thinking "I wouldn't give a 2nd for Cooper" thinks he's of a lesser 'caliber' than you think he is.

 

I wouldn't give a 2nd for him, but you would, and we don't know what Ballard (the expert) thinks. I'll trust whatever Ballard does with this.

[crazycolt1]

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 2:22 PM, Finball said:

Actually, because of his reserved demeanor, I'm not sure if the kid has enough drive, the 'it' factor or whatever you want to call it. He's talented for sure but has bad tendency to disappear way too often. And it seems like he doesn't really care that much. Personally, not interested giving up day 2 pick for him.. So.. not interested.

I think most the players on the Raiders at this point have a negative demeanor.  Gruden has not done a good job at bringing his players together. From what I been reading the locker room there is crap.

[jvan1973]

43 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think people overvalue draft picks most of the time.   Some people saying things like - "I wouldn't give a 2nd for Cooper".   What are the odds of getting a WR of Coopers caliber in the 2nd round next year?   Maybe you feel the GM can evaluate talent very well.   So maybe it's a 60% chance.   That still leaves 40% to fail.   Take the known commodity and let someone else have the risk.  

However, it is different with good 1st round picks. 

It's more than the draft picks.   He has a club option 1 year left on his deal.   So why trade for him? The raiders won't pick up the option,   sign him next year

[richard pallo]

18 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

It's more than the draft picks.   He has a club option 1 year left on his deal.   So why trade for him? The raiders won't pick up the option,   sign him next year

If you wait until he's a FA you are competing with the rest of the league. Trade for him he's yours.  You pick up the option and or sign him to a long term deal.  Hard to see the Raiders letting him walk for just a compensatory pick.  He has a lot more value than that to them.  A 2nd. is a fair trade.  Both sides have to win according to Ballard. 

[Flash7]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

If you wait until he's a FA you are competing with the rest of the league. Trade for him he's yours.  You pick up the option and or sign him to a long term deal.  Hard to see the Raiders letting him walk for just a compensatory pick.  He has a lot more value than that to them.  A 2nd. is a fair trade.  Both sides have to win according to Ballard. 

Not only would you be competing with the rest of the league, you would also be taking a chance that some other team would not offer the Raiders a 2nd now. He may not make it to Free Agency next year.

[Myles]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

It's more than the draft picks.   He has a club option 1 year left on his deal.   So why trade for him? The raiders won't pick up the option,   sign him next year

Good point.   We'd have to have a solid commitment from him that he will sign and stay.