With the 36th & 37th pick, Indianapolis Colts select Darius Leonard & Braden Smith

[BigQungus]

On 4/20/2019 at 3:47 AM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sorry, Jared...    I'm not trying to be difficult,  but this post is mostly false.    And full of the frustration that a disappointed fan can have.

 

Grigson's 2012 draft,  his first,  was judged at the time to be the 9th best in the history of the draft.    And yet,  a number of years down the line most of the players flamed out...   either they got hurt,  (Fleener,  Chapman,  Ballard) or their performance tailed off for variouis reasons. (Allen, Brazil)    Some things are just out of a GM's hands.  

 

You are what your record says you are...  11-5, 11-5 and 11-5 and further in each round of the playoffs in his first three years..   His two worst years while he was GM were 8-8.   But, the roster got old, slow and less talented on his watch.   But that doeesn't make him 32 out of 32 GM's.   So, no, I don't think Luck wasted the first 5 years of his career.   Certainly not the first 3.    Of course,  IMO,  Grigson IS responsible for Ballard's 4-12 first year.   That was Grigson's mess that Ballard had to clean up.

 

And I don't think people who supported Grigson in his early years should be taking a hit.   Not from you or anyone else.    Ultimately he was not good at his job.   He deserved to be fired.   But people were calling for his head in year 3, when we went to the AFC Championship game.    Those fans weren't right because Grigson ultimately lost his job.    That's like saying someone who always proclaims it's 12 o'clock is some genius because he's right twice a day.    Fans didn't know what was coming in 2014.    The fact that they were right was more fluke than anything else.  Those of us who supported Grigson had good reason to do so.   Those of us who stopped supporting Grigson also had good reason to do so.   He stopped being good at his job.

 

Fans weren't very impressed with Ballard after his first year.   One year later,  and he's a genius.   Fans are emotional and fickle.   They love you when your winning and not so much if you're not.

After Ballard's great draft last year,  you  say he deserves the benefit of the doubt.   Great, I agree with you.    But in your previous sentence you felt the need to qualify it by saying  "barring a positional reach or bad positional draft early..."     You're already ready to pounce should Ballard do something you think is wrong and stupid and he hasn't even done it yet.   But you're ready to proclaim that the current smartest guy in the room is suddenly not.    The honeymoon would be over.

 

That's what fans do.   Grigson is not as bad as you think.   And Ballard will make his share of mistakes.   Not because I doubt him,  but because everyone in the personnel business does sooner or later.   The job is much harder than you think it is.  Things are rarely as obvious as they seem.  

 

Yes he had 2 very very good drafts in 2011-2012. But after 2014 I wanted him gone.

 

When you draft Bjoern Werner one year with your first pick and then next year trade your 1st rounder for Trent Richardson, I think you deserve to be fired

 

Those are 2 very egregious offenses.

 

Hindsight right now, I wouldn't have fired him simply because we wouldn't have gotten Ballard if we fired him so soon. But we still should've fired him sooner

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, J@son said:

 

See Brandon weeden and margus hunt. It's rare, but it does happen 

Yeah that is true. Weeden made me laugh.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

Did I say anything dumb in here?  Is there any way to search without going through all 5 pages?

 

Just assume you did, it's easier that way...

 

I didn't even post in this thread until a few days ago, so I'm safe. I made my own thread after the draft to combine all my stupidity in one place.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, BigQungus said:

Hindsight right now, I wouldn't have fired him simply because we wouldn't have gotten Ballard if we fired him so soon. But we still should've fired him sooner

 

Probably not, but maybe. Ballard was in the rotation for at least a couple years, getting interviews, declining interviews, etc. He was a finalist for the Bears job in 2015. I found the article linked below to be very enlightening, especially looking at how Ballard has operated since joining the Colts.

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-greg-gabriel-chris-ballard-ryan-pace-20150108-story.html

[NewColtsFan]

On 4/19/2019 at 3:21 PM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I do.  Saying anything except "the jury is out until year 3" is premature drivel from either side.

 

We can look back now and say Nelson, Leonard, and Smith were great picks, but even that is premature because it's only been one year.

 

This entire "HoF" 2018 draft class might completely $#!+ the bed this year (God, I hope not), in which case, Ballard didn't "nail it" and hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

So far, so good, but the jury is out until 2021. 

 

Well....   to be fair,  the 3-year rule is not typically applied to rookies who show they can quickly play at this level.

 

No one was saying let's not judge Andrew Luck until after 3 years.    We knew after year 1 that he was special.      And I'd say the same applies to Nelson and Leonard.      I think it DOES apply to Smith.   He's learning a new position on the fly at the NFL level.    Never easy.

 

Our young kids who haven't fully demonstrated just how good they will be have a few more years to get better.     Ballard talked about that today in his presser.    These young kids need time.   

 

That said,  the best of the best,  the cream of the crop,  they show themselves pretty quickly.

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 4/20/2019 at 9:06 AM, Chloe6124 said:

I remember Luck in his presser last week said he wants more TD. That’s good for Ebron and funchess. I do think we can expect funchess and Ebron to each get around 8 TD. I will be shocked if either gets double digits.  If they do that means luck will have had a career year and might get mvp. I also won’t consider it a failure for Ebron if his TD are half and funchess gets the other half. It doesn’t really mean he wasn’t as important. Teams are going to have a hard time covering all 3 in the red zone. 

 

I'm not sure when Luck made that comment that he's talking about more TD passes....   He's talking about more touchdowns for the overall offense.     Fewer field goals,  and more touchdowns.    Let's get 7 points on the drive instead of 3 points.

 

We might get many more touchdowns this year,  but a number of them could possibly be from the running game....

 

[Valpo2004]

20 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Just assume you did, it's easier that way...

 

I didn't even post in this thread until a few days ago, so I'm safe. I made my own thread after the draft to combine all my stupidity in one place.

 

True but I generally pride myself in not presuming that draft picks will work out poorly before the ball is even snapped.

 

I might say that I would have preferred one guy over another.  But that's about as bad as it gets.  

[jvan1973]

That was a fun read.   

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

That was a fun read.   

And I give @DougDew credit.   He was good with the Leonard pick when many here weren’t.  
 

He just likes to forget he was not good with the Nelson pick.    Convenient amnesia. 

[NewColtsFan]

On 4/22/2019 at 10:15 AM, Superman said:

 

Just assume you did, it's easier that way...

 

I didn't even post in this thread until a few days ago, so I'm safe. I made my own thread after the draft to combine all my stupidity in one place.

One of the funniest quips in the history of this website!!    Just saw it!!   Bravo to you!!  
 

I bow to your funny bone!!        

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Always funny to go back and read these a few years later.

[Colt.45]

43 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

That was a fun read.   

You come out of this looking VERY good.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Kudos to the people that nailed it.

[GoColts8818]

Treads like this show the following:

 

Judging draft picks on draft night is a bad idea.

 

why fans are fans and not running the team.

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 4/20/2019 at 4:28 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This thread made my whole morning, so much negativity and people being wrong. I was  reading some of that stuff. I was surprised for as much as I post I did not post on this thread at all. I was one that did love the Nelson and Leonard picks but was skeptical regarding the Smith pick when all 3 happened. I wanted Nelson over Chubb and was glad Chubb got picked 5th by Denver and not Nelson. Nelson to me looks like the next Larry Allen and Leonard was the steal of the draft. Fans that doubted Leonard shouldn't feel too bad though because Bleacher Report called the Leonard pick one of the worst of the draft .

I went back through it and posted this. Not bad for an amateur  

[danlhart87]

On 4/27/2018 at 6:29 PM, danlhart87 said:

I'm unfamiliar with Braden but Leonard was good pick 

Braden surprised me but loved the Leonard pick from the start

[BlackTiger]

I didnt know what to think of Daruis Leonard when they drafted him.  How many of us had actually watched him at that point?  It seemed like he had potential as more information came out about him, he was also hurt at the time and there were still some big names on the board

 

They were raving about him in his first training camp, thats when i stopped being nervous about him.  He broke out big in just his second game, one of my favorites in recent memory 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

Braden surprised me but loved the Leonard pick from the start

Same here, I just new nothing about Braden so I was skeptical of that but I loved the Nelson and Leonard picks at the time. 

[GoColts8818]

On 4/28/2018 at 10:31 AM, JColts72 said:

That I am. U ripping the post draft talking heads too on their instant grades? Not if its too u liking?What thin skin colt fans we have here. U never last in a big city.

What’s funny is that he didn’t last here…

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

What’s funny is that he didn’t last here…

I seen several other people in here bashing drafting Leonard and saying Ballard didn't know what he is doing, so thanks for the blast from the past @jvan1973 

[JediXMan]

On 4/27/2018 at 4:29 PM, TKnight24 said:

 

Man this 2018 class could really be one of the best.

[jvan1973]

51 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I seen several other people in here bashing drafting Leonard and saying Ballard didn't know what he is doing, so thanks for the blast from the past @jvan1973 

Actually @CR91 posted it on the Leonard contract thread.     I just enjoyed reading it 

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

On 4/19/2019 at 5:21 PM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I do.  Saying anything except "the jury is out until year 3" is premature drivel from either side.

 

We can look back now and say Nelson, Leonard, and Smith were great picks, but even that is premature because it's only been one year.

 

This entire "HoF" 2018 draft class might completely $#!+ the bed this year (God, I hope not), in which case, Ballard didn't "nail it" and hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

So far, so good, but the jury is out until 2021. 

So Lucky, has the jury finally returned??

[Scott Pennock]

I'm sure it's already been said many times.....these two picks are a prime example of why we (as a fan base) should just be excited about who is drafted and try to look through the optimistic lens versus the "so many better players available" lens. Lol

 

I know my write ups and hot takes are always optimistic and plenty of you bash on me for it, but hey, how's that crow taste right now?

[Yoshinator]

1 hour ago, BlackTiger said:

I didnt know what to think of Daruis Leonard when they drafted him.  How many of us had actually watched him at that point?  It seemed like he had potential as more information came out about him, he was also hurt at the time and there were still some big names on the board

 

They were raving about him in his first training camp, thats when i stopped being nervous about him.  He broke out big in just his second game, one of my favorites in recent memory 

My best friend knew Darius Leonard prior to the draft, and we were talking about the Colts potentially drafting him on day 2. I already heard of him and loved him at that point. I was mocking Braden Smith to us in the 3rd round and was still happy to get him in the second as well. 

 

I had a bit of insider info on Leonard and knew he'd be good when nobody here knew him. @BlueShoe loved Darius Leonard as well.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

16 minutes ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

So Lucky, has the jury finally returned??

I’d say the jury has unanimously decided that Ballard is indeed guilty of a great draft in 2018.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

52 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Actually @CR91 posted it on the Leonard contract thread.     I just enjoyed reading it 

@CR91, I didn't see that, great stuff man!

[DougDew]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

And I give @DougDew credit.   He was good with the Leonard pick when many here weren’t.  
 

He just likes to forget he was not good with the Nelson pick.    Convenient amnesia. 

Nonsense.  I never said Nelson was a bad pick.  I said that trading down to get a Olineman at 13 plus another player in round 2, like maybe a corner, made more sense, because putting pick #6 into a G is a luxury that creates salary structure issue in ensuing years....having to find money to spend it on positions that matter more.  

 

And how would you even know now to make this comment about who said what about Leonard three years ago?

 

What did you do here anyway....review four pages of a three year old thread just to see if you were right or hoping that other people were wrong...so you can then validate previous call outs.  That sounds like you.

 

BTW, based upon the reactions, I see @jvan1973swooped in to look like ,,,, like he usually does, 

[jvan1973]

Just now, DougDew said:

Nonsense.  I never said Nelson was a bad pick.  I said that trading down to get a Olineman at 13 plus another player in round 2, like maybe a corner, made more sense, because putting pick #6 into a G is a luxury that creates salary structure issue in ensuing years....having to find money to spend it on positions that matter more.  

 

And how would you even know now to make this comment? 

 

What did you do here anyway....review four pages of a three year old thread just to see if you were right or hoping that other people were wrong...so you can then validate previous call outs.  That sounds like you.

 

BTW, based upon the reactions, I see @jvan1973swooped in to look like ,,,, like he usually does, 

Like a guy who doesn't overreact on draft day?  Like a guy who trusts those that actually scout players.   Like a guy that isn't a professional in the NFL.   Yeah,   I agree.   Thanks for noticing 

[DougDew]

28 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Like a guy who doesn't overreact on draft day?  Like a guy who trusts those that actually scout players.   Like a guy that isn't a professional in the NFL.   Yeah,   I agree.   Thanks for noticing 

No. Like a guy who overreacts to so many other's posts he feels compelled to constantly swoop in and challenge them.

 

I just think its odd that a three year old thread gets dug up and some readers forage through every page to see if their previous call outs have merit...or not.  

 

Its tough to have conversations with that mentality.

[chad72]

5 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

You come out of this looking VERY good.

Do you think he’d quote it if he’d come off terrible? Let’s be realistic.

 

Do we need to resurrect Malik Hooker and Ben Banogu draft pick threads as well?  

 

[chad72]

38 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No. Like a guy who overreacts to so many other's posts he feels compelled to constantly swoop in and challenge them.

 

I just think its odd that a three year old thread gets dug up and some readers forage through every page to see if their previous call outs have merit...or not.  

 

Its tough to have conversations with that mentality.

I rarely agree with you but it’s like a guilty pleasure that some forum posters indulge in resurrecting threads where they come off looking good. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

39 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No. Like a guy who overreacts to so many other's posts he feels compelled to constantly swoop in and challenge them.

 

I just think its odd that a three year old thread gets dug up and some readers forage through every page to see if their previous call outs have merit...or not.  

 

Its tough to have conversations with that mentality.

I actually think it’s funny to go back and look at these a few years later. It’s just entertainment. No one is putting any one down.

[GoColts8818]

On I side note I miss @TKnight24 and his apple juice.

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Nonsense.  I never said Nelson was a bad pick.  I said that trading down to get a Olineman at 13 plus another player in round 2, like maybe a corner, made more sense, because putting pick #6 into a G is a luxury that creates salary structure issue in ensuing years....having to find money to spend it on positions that matter more.  

 

And how would you even know now to make this comment about who said what about Leonard three years ago?

 

What did you do here anyway....review four pages of a three year old thread just to see if you were right or hoping that other people were wrong...so you can then validate previous call outs.  That sounds like you.

 

BTW, based upon the reactions, I see @jvan1973swooped in to look like ,,,, like he usually does, 

 

Doug,....     I'm sorry you feel like I'm picking on you.    I don't mean to.    And if you noticed,  I gave you praise (not the first time)   for being right on our Leonard pick when many here were not.    And many of them have conveniently forgotten.

 

But you have too.

 

You did not dislike Nelson,  the player.    But you intensely disliked Nelson the 6th overall pick in the draft.    And I don't understand why you're fighting this?    The April 2018 Draft Night thread was pulled up a year or two ago and there for all of us to re-read and enjoy.     And your internet fingerprints were all over it.     You disliked the pick for three clear reasons.

 

1.    You did not like taking Nelson with the 6th pick.

2.    You did not like taking a guard,  any guard,  with a top-10 pick.  

3.    You did not like the fact that we didn't trade back with Buffalo for their two 1st round picks. 

 

You were quite clear.    When Ballard said he didn't trade back with Buffalo because he didn't want to risk not getting Nelson,  your view was that was a mistake.    That we should've taken the picks,  used them elsewhere,  and taken a guard later.

 

When we viewed that thread again a year or two ago,  your comments were quite prominent.    And to your credit, the next night,  you backed the pick of Leonard.     So, you got that one right.    But you were wrong on Nelson.    Completely.    You didn't dislike him as a player.     But you disliked him as a pick.    You were unmistakably clear.    As is your style.    That's why I remember it so well,  and was able to re-live it again when the thread was viewed again.    And that's why I remember your Hines post.    You have a very distinctive style.    No one else makes the arguments you do.    That's not necessarily a bad thing,  but your arguments are unique.   They stand-out.   That's what makes them memorable.    That's why I remember.

 

When you made more arguments a few weeks ago with Hines,  did you not notice that you got basically no support.   No one embraced your viewpoints.    Again,  doesn't make it wrong,  but it does make your views memorable.

 

To be honest,  if someone made a list of all my wrong posts,  the website would probably crash!!     I've made plenty.   It's the nature of internet fan message boards.    People write the occasional bad post.    Most are forgetful.   But some are very memorable,  and yours are.

I've ruffled your feathers,  and I'm sorry.    I'll do my best to avoid doing this again in the near future.