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With the 36th & 37th pick, Indianapolis Colts select Darius Leonard & Braden Smith

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7 hours ago, SanDiegoColt8 said:

Ill eat crow about Leonard. He has looked really good. Dude flies around the field. However, I still think the rest of the 2nd round picks were reaches and we could have drafted more impactful players. 

This is something to check back on in a couple of years. It is impossible to judge any pick with just one game played.

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LOL!!!

 

Felt like bumping this, my sides hurt at times from laughing. Especially the basketball player part.

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Thanks for posting:  it reminds us specifically who's opinions ns to ignore this draft.  They will probably paste the same comments this year anyway:l.

if you notice, its pretty easy to guess who the naysayers are.  After acwhile, you start to associate quality posts with som names , and whining to others.  Kinda like Pavlov's dog.... kinda.

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Thanks for reposting,  it's hilarious looking back at alot of the comments from last year. "Huge reach on both, they couldve been picked later, Ballard sucks, our scouts suck......." lol!!

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The part the really kills me is how so many of us screamed about how poor our o-line was for so many years and when Ballard takes action to fix it people scream about that.

 

I am no expert on this stuff.  And obviously neither are many people who post here.   So this year before you all start freaking out (and you know who you are!) during the draft relax, have a beer, and enjoy the ride.  Maybe - just maybe - the folks that are getting paid to do this stuff know a little more than we do.

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I will say this after reading the entire thread over. The optimists were mainly being optimistic because of their personality towards the team, and the pessimists were being negative because they didn't recognize the names and Grigson had recently burned us prior in the draft. IMO, this was a prove-it draft for Ballard, and he did just that. I don't blame either sides reaction here based on what we had previously went through, and Ballard being an unknown in the draft.

 

However, now that Ballard nailed the 2018 draft, everyone should support his decisions, and give him the benefit of the doubt whether they agree with his picks or not. He's earned it.

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On 9/10/2018 at 4:49 PM, chad72 said:

We all say dumb and uninformed things in our lives

 

Yeah, but if you haven't noticed, there's a select group that say the same dumb and uninformed things about virtually every draft pick every year... and some of them can't use the "in my youth" excuse anymore.  :funny:

 

They make coming back to these threads every year a lot of fun.  At least for me, anyway.  :sip:

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33 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I don't blame either sides reaction

 

I do.  Saying anything except "the jury is out until year 3" is premature drivel from either side.

 

We can look back now and say Nelson, Leonard, and Smith were great picks, but even that is premature because it's only been one year.

 

This entire "HoF" 2018 draft class might completely $#!+ the bed this year (God, I hope not), in which case, Ballard didn't "nail it" and hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

So far, so good, but the jury is out until 2021.  :hat:

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This thread is to funny. I hope we can look back at some of the DF threads and laugh also.

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2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I will say this after reading the entire thread over. The optimists were mainly being optimistic because of their personality towards the team, and the pessimists were being negative because they didn't recognize the names and Grigson had recently burned us prior in the draft. IMO, this was a prove-it draft for Ballard, and he did just that. I don't blame either sides reaction here based on what we had previously went through, and Ballard being an unknown in the draft.

 

However, now that Ballard nailed the 2018 draft, everyone should support his decisions, and give him the benefit of the doubt whether they agree with his picks or not. He's earned it.

Questioning professionals that watch hundreds of hours of film,  they talk face to face with the prospects and then calling them terrible the same day they are drafted is stupid.   Beyond stupid

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50 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Questioning professionals that watch hundreds of hours of film,  they talk face to face with the prospects and then calling them terrible the same day they are drafted is stupid.   Beyond stupid

In his tenure as our GM from 2012-2016, Grigson may of been the worst GM in the league as far as the draft goes. Did he know more than us? Of course. 31 other GM's knew more than him though, and that's all that matters. Luck lost 5 years of his career because of Grigson. It goes both ways. I can say you and a lot of others were just as dumb for trusting Grigson as the pessimists were for doubting Ballard. That's why the best viewpoints are those without an extreme bias. I at least judge the drafts based on personal research of the players chosen (which is the best possible viewpoint a fan can do it from to be taken seriously). 100% positive or negative viewpoints from a specific person are the worst. Superman himself will tell it like it is on here when it needs to be done.

 

However, barring a ridiculous reach or bad positional draft early, Ballard deserves the benefit of the doubt because of his prior work, not merely because he's the Colts GM.

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

In his tenure as our GM from 2012-2016, Grigson may of been the worst GM in the league as far as the draft goes. Did he know more than us? Of course. 31 other GM's knew more than him though, and that's all that matters. Luck lost 5 years of his career because of Grigson. It goes both ways. I can say you and a lot of others were just as dumb for trusting Grigson as the pessimists were for doubting Ballard. That's why the best viewpoints are those without an extreme bias. I at least judge the drafts based on personal research of the players chosen (which is the best possible viewpoint a fan can do it from to be taken seriously). 100% positive or negative viewpoints from a specific person are the worst. Superman himself will tell it like it is on here when it needs to be done.

 

However, barring a ridiculous reach or bad positional draft early, Ballard deserves the benefit of the doubt because of his prior work, not merely because he's the Colts GM.

 Grigson was a better GM than any fan.   He had info on players that no one else did.    He wasn't good.   Imagine how bad a fan would be.   

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7 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

In his tenure as our GM from 2012-2016, Grigson may of been the worst GM in the league as far as the draft goes. Did he know more than us? Of course. 31 other GM's knew more than him though, and that's all that matters. Luck lost 5 years of his career because of Grigson. It goes both ways. I can say you and a lot of others were just as dumb for trusting Grigson as the pessimists were for doubting Ballard. That's why the best viewpoints are those without an extreme bias. I at least judge the drafts based on personal research of the players chosen (which is the best possible viewpoint a fan can do it from to be taken seriously). 100% positive or negative viewpoints from a specific person are the worst. Superman himself will tell it like it is on here when it needs to be done.

 

However, barring a ridiculous reach or bad positional draft early, Ballard deserves the benefit of the doubt because of his prior work, not merely because he's the Colts GM.

 

Sorry, Jared...    I'm not trying to be difficult,  but this post is mostly false.    And full of the frustration that a disappointed fan can have.

 

Grigson's 2012 draft,  his first,  was judged at the time to be the 9th best in the history of the draft.    And yet,  a number of years down the line most of the players flamed out...   either they got hurt,  (Fleener,  Chapman,  Ballard) or their performance tailed off for variouis reasons. (Allen, Brazil)    Some things are just out of a GM's hands.  

 

You are what your record says you are...  11-5, 11-5 and 11-5 and further in each round of the playoffs in his first three years..   His two worst years while he was GM were 8-8.   But, the roster got old, slow and less talented on his watch.   But that doeesn't make him 32 out of 32 GM's.   So, no, I don't think Luck wasted the first 5 years of his career.   Certainly not the first 3.    Of course,  IMO,  Grigson IS responsible for Ballard's 4-12 first year.   That was Grigson's mess that Ballard had to clean up.

 

And I don't think people who supported Grigson in his early years should be taking a hit.   Not from you or anyone else.    Ultimately he was not good at his job.   He deserved to be fired.   But people were calling for his head in year 3, when we went to the AFC Championship game.    Those fans weren't right because Grigson ultimately lost his job.    That's like saying someone who always proclaims it's 12 o'clock is some genius because he's right twice a day.    Fans didn't know what was coming in 2014.    The fact that they were right was more fluke than anything else.  Those of us who supported Grigson had good reason to do so.   Those of us who stopped supporting Grigson also had good reason to do so.   He stopped being good at his job.

 

Fans weren't very impressed with Ballard after his first year.   One year later,  and he's a genius.   Fans are emotional and fickle.   They love you when your winning and not so much if you're not.

After Ballard's great draft last year,  you  say he deserves the benefit of the doubt.   Great, I agree with you.    But in your previous sentence you felt the need to qualify it by saying  "barring a positional reach or bad positional draft early..."     You're already ready to pounce should Ballard do something you think is wrong and stupid and he hasn't even done it yet.   But you're ready to proclaim that the current smartest guy in the room is suddenly not.    The honeymoon would be over.

 

That's what fans do.   Grigson is not as bad as you think.   And Ballard will make his share of mistakes.   Not because I doubt him,  but because everyone in the personnel business does sooner or later.   The job is much harder than you think it is.  Things are rarely as obvious as they seem.  

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6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sorry, Jared...    I'm not trying to be difficult,  but this post is mostly false.    And full of the frustration that a disappointed fan can have.

 

Grigson's 2012 draft,  his first,  was judged at the time to be the 9th best in the history of the draft.    And yet,  a number of years down the line most of the players flamed out...   either they got hurt,  (Fleener,  Chapman,  Ballard) or their performance tailed off for variouis reasons. (Allen, Brazil)    Some things are just out of a GM's hands.  

 

You are what your record says you are...  11-5, 11-5 and 11-5 and further in each round of the playoffs in his first three years..   His two worst years while he was GM were 8-8.   But, the roster got old, slow and less talented on his watch.   But that doeesn't make him 32 out of 32 GM's.   So, no, I don't think Luck wasted the first 5 years of his career.   Certainly not the first 3.    Of course,  IMO,  Grigson IS responsible for Ballard's 4-12 first year.   That was Grigson's mess that Ballard had to clean up.

 

And I don't think people who supported Grigson in his early years should be taking a hit.   Not from you or anyone else.    Ultimately he was not good at his job.   He deserved to be fired.   But people were calling for his head in year 3, when we went to the AFC Championship game.    Those fans weren't right because Grigson ultimately lost his job.    That's like saying someone who always proclaims it's 12 o'clock is some genius because he's right twice a day.    Fans didn't know what was coming in 2014.    The fact that they were right was more fluke than anything else.  Those of us who supported Grigson had good reason to do so.   Those of us who stopped supporting Grigson also had good reason to do so.   He stopped being good at his job.

 

Fans weren't very impressed with Ballard after his first year.   One year later,  and he's a genius.   Fans are emotional and fickle.   They love you when your winning and not so much if you're not.

After Ballard's great draft last year,  you  say he deserves the benefit of the doubt.   Great, I agree with you.    But in your previous sentence you felt the need to qualify it by saying  "barring a positional reach or bad positional draft early..."     You're already ready to pounce should Ballard do something you think is wrong and stupid and he hasn't even done it yet.   But you're ready to proclaim that the current smartest guy in the room is suddenly not.    The honeymoon would be over.

 

That's what fans do.   Grigson is not as bad as you think.   And Ballard will make his share of mistakes.   Not because I doubt him,  but because everyone in the personnel business does sooner or later.   The job is much harder than you think it is.  

Fair enough, I was merely presenting that both the optimists and the pessimists can be right based on the situation, so I give people a free pass on Ballard's last class as I wasn't criticizing the negative people on this thread even though I knew Leonard and Smith well. I have very high expectations of Ballard in a week. He won't match last years class, but he can still do solid. I would only bash him if he did something like take Khalen Saunders in the 1st hypothetically (which would be missing on a run and making a panic move), or if he completely abandoned his approach that worked last year. I want him to be himself and follow what works. I finally trust a GM, I hope he can continue to come through.

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10 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

This thread is to funny. I hope we can look back at some of the DF threads and laugh also.

I have no doubt!  I was disappointed because I actually watched him play every year in every game he played at Carolina.  I had hopes for him out of the draft, but he really didn't impress. 

 

But here is something to consider.  Even if he has an "Ebron" type year coming up, that doesn't win the argument for me.  Doyle if healthy, would have dominated the catches outside the end zone and we'd be having a different discussion because though he'd still have had 10 TD Catches probably, his drops would not have so easily been ignored, especially in big moments.  So it isn't too late for some of the naysayers from that draft to be a little more balanced in their assessment.  I actually remember being ecstatic last year with the first 3 picks, because I am more a "need" guy than a "bpa" guy, though not 100%, more like 60/40.  What was brilliant in the top 3 picks were they were ALL huge needs, but in hindsight, they turned out to be BPA by a MILE when they were picked.  In fact all would have been top 15 1st rounders I bet in the hindsight draft.  

 

I do recall not being as excited about the last 2 picks Turay in particular.  I hope he turns into a monster and makes my doubting him look silly.  I'd always rather look silly when I am down on someone than end up with a bust.  I hope Funchess balls out like I first hoped when he was drafted.  If he does, it will PROVE how superior Luck is to Newton (even though for me it is already clear).  It also demonstrated how superior Luck was to Mr. Detroit though I doubt many questioned that anyway.   If he gets the most out of Ebron and Funchess two years in a row it will simply prove his brilliance as a player and Reich's genius at play design/calling.  

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That was a very enjoyable read lol

 

I'll be sure to keep my mouth shut if I find myself disagreeing with Ballard's picks next week. 

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This thread made my whole morning, so much negativity and people being wrong. I was lmao reading some of that stuff. I was surprised for as much as I post I did not post on this thread at all. I was one that did love the Nelson and Leonard picks but was skeptical regarding the Smith pick when all 3 happened. I wanted Nelson over Chubb and was glad Chubb got picked 5th by Denver and not Nelson. Nelson to me looks like the next Larry Allen and Leonard was the steal of the draft. Fans that doubted Leonard shouldn't feel too bad though because Bleacher Report called the Leonard pick one of the worst of the draft :funny:.

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4 hours ago, JPFolks said:

I have no doubt!  I was disappointed because I actually watched him play every year in every game he played at Carolina.  I had hopes for him out of the draft, but he really didn't impress. 

 

But here is something to consider.  Even if he has an "Ebron" type year coming up, that doesn't win the argument for me.  Doyle if healthy, would have dominated the catches outside the end zone and we'd be having a different discussion because though he'd still have had 10 TD Catches probably, his drops would not have so easily been ignored, especially in big moments.  So it isn't too late for some of the naysayers from that draft to be a little more balanced in their assessment.  I actually remember being ecstatic last year with the first 3 picks, because I am more a "need" guy than a "bpa" guy, though not 100%, more like 60/40.  What was brilliant in the top 3 picks were they were ALL huge needs, but in hindsight, they turned out to be BPA by a MILE when they were picked.  In fact all would have been top 15 1st rounders I bet in the hindsight draft.  

 

I do recall not being as excited about the last 2 picks Turay in particular.  I hope he turns into a monster and makes my doubting him look silly.  I'd always rather look silly when I am down on someone than end up with a bust.  I hope Funchess balls out like I first hoped when he was drafted.  If he does, it will PROVE how superior Luck is to Newton (even though for me it is already clear).  It also demonstrated how superior Luck was to Mr. Detroit though I doubt many questioned that anyway.   If he gets the most out of Ebron and Funchess two years in a row it will simply prove his brilliance as a player and Reich's genius at play design/calling.  

What is funny to me is Ebron and funchess are pretty much the same player. If luck and Ebron were so successful then I have no doubt luck and funchess will be too. I mean funchess ane Ebron pretty much had the same problem before coming to the colts. I think numbers won’t be super high because we have Ebron, funchess, and Doyle but it’s going to be fun to watch.

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

What is funny to me is Ebron and funchess are pretty much the same player. If luck and Ebron were so successful then I have no doubt luck and funchess will be too. I mean funchess ane Ebron pretty much had the same problem before coming to the colts. I think numbers won’t be super high because we have Ebron, funchess, and Doyle but it’s going to be fun to watch.

What people may unfortunately find out is that anything Funchess does well, especially in the Red Zone, will in most cases be at the Expense of Ebron.  If at the end of the year (regardless to our record) we find that both have 7 TD's and both have the same drop issues, we could end up with a LOT of regret.  I would LOVE to be blown away and see Funchess have 13 TD's to go along with Ebron's 17.  I won't hold my breath though.  

 

I agree with you that in many ways they seem like the same guy.  People have asked if Ebron is just a super big WR or is Funchess just a TE with a lot more speed but who couldn't line up and block a DE (or even chip well)?  If they really are the same guy, it will be fun to send both of them plus Doyle into patterns in the Red Zone and let them try to out "rebound" all 3 in the end zone.  Maybe that is their plan.   I recall originally we were told that is how they would use our TE's when the previous regime took over.  It just never happened, even with two highly drafted and regarded young TE's at the time.  

 

But I could also see them just scavenging catches and TDs off each other.  Doyle, if healthy, will likely be in the mix for 2nd in catches (if he is back to prior form, he certain has that ability) behind Hilton, leaving Funchess to steal catches from our "also ran" WR corps (Rogers et. al) but with potentially a higher drop rate (if that is possible... it could be ugly if these guys collectively don't learn to catch the ball this year).  For me, our biggest hope lies with either Cain or a top rookie draft choice in the chance they would pick one of the top end guys or find a gem later.  People seem to forget how late we picked Cain, and I think there's tremendous optimism in him that may not be warranted based on early training camp heroics and we all know the history of training camp heroes from the past who often don't even make the team, we have no real clue if he'll make the team this year for that matter and I will be disappointed if Fountain is good enough to stick around as that will suggest we haven't improved though many of us, myself included, are hopeful of a good result.  

 

The fun is less than a week away! 

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I remember Luck in his presser last week said he wants more TD. That’s good for Ebron and funchess. I do think we can expect funchess and Ebron to each get around 8 TD. I will be shocked if either gets double digits.  If they do that means luck will have had a career year and might get mvp. I also won’t consider it a failure for Ebron if his TD are half and funchess gets the other half. It doesn’t really mean he wasn’t as important. Teams are going to have a hard time covering all 3 in the red zone. 

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8 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I was merely presenting that both the optimists and the pessimists can be right based on the situation

 

I see you playing both sides of the fence, you flip-flopper!  Just kidding.  haha

 

It's hard to stay neutral as a fan, it's natural to love the highs and hate the lows.

 

But threads like this seem to attract the negative nancies that can't seem to enjoy the highs with the rest of us.  :dunno:

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This is why I generally don't make definitive statements on guys who have never played a down in the NFL.  General managers who are paid millions and live and breath football are mediocre at the drafting process so what hope do I have.

 

That said, I could have done better than Grigson lol.

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On 4/27/2018 at 8:23 PM, shastamasta said:

 

Ballard drafted a 27 year old LB at the top of the 2nd round and people are loving the pick. Man people are dumb. 

Bet he feels dumb

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On 4/27/2018 at 7:37 PM, Finch23 said:

Good job Chris Grigson. In all seriousness, I HATE both picks. :(

Dumb way to think probably a part time fan anyway

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37 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Bet he feels dumb

 

Shasta is a very good poster.   I think he got Leonard mixed up with someone else.   I think he’s addressed this in the past.

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11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Shasta is a very good poster.   I think he got Leonard mixed up with someone else.   I think he’s addressed this in the past.

 

You have to admit it's pretty amusing that he had to google Leonard immediately after he was drafted, but from a quick google search where he was looking at info for a player in a completely different sport, he felt educated enough to call other fans dumb for liking the pick he knew nothing about.  :lol:

 

"At least he has good length for an OLB at 6'9", but his shooting percentage isn't nearly good enough to be drafted that high... has he ever even had a triple-double?"

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52 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

You have to admit it's pretty amusing that he had to google Leonard immediately after he was drafted, but from a quick google search where he was looking at info for a player in a completely different sport, he felt educated enough to call other fans dumb for liking the pick he knew nothing about.  :lol:

 

"At least he has good length for an OLB at 6'9", but his shooting percentage isn't nearly good enough to be drafted that high... has he ever even had a triple-double?"

It happens to the best of us (we all make mistakes) but anyone should know a rookie would not be 27 years old. The Triple Double comment had me lmao .

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On 4/19/2019 at 10:02 PM, jvan1973 said:

 Grigson was a better GM than any fan.   He had info on players that no one else did.    He wasn't good.   Imagine how bad a fan would be.   

People love to talk about how smart Rick Venturi is, and he is.  However, if you look at his record as a head coach it’s not good, that just reminds me even bad football people are way smarter than anyone posting here when it comes to football.  

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On 4/20/2019 at 6:06 AM, ScotColt said:

That was a very enjoyable read lol

 

I'll be sure to keep my mouth shut if I find myself disagreeing with Ballard's picks next week. 

 

This is precisely the reason I don’t like all the hindsight for this thread. Pretty much all of us don’t know as much as Ballard and the scouts in depth about a player than what we have access to over the internet, period, whether it’s research articles or opinions of others.

 

By bringing up threads like these to roast people over the coals for disagreeing with Ballard, it creates a false narrative of wanting to stifle any expression of opinions, however contrarian. Degrees of contrarian will vary because we’re not cut out of the same cloth, so a little tolerance with the ridicule toned down would help us all as fans, IMO!!!

 

Peace!!! Happy Easter!!! :) 

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The thread was a good read. 

 

Seems most weren't happy with the picks, not because of stats or player history, but simply because they didn't recognize the names or thought it was too big of a reach.

 

Smith was top 50ish on most boards, and was 2x All SEC (2nd team his soph year). Perhaps a bit of a tiny reach at 37, but could easily have been gone at 52 (the Colts next pick).

 

Leonard was in the  80s on Mayock's board (some had him outside of the top 100) so I can understand folks feeling like 36/37 was a reach (the Colts still had 52 and 64) if they were listening to guys like Kiper and Mayock. Would he have been available, maybe? NFL.com rated him at 5.81 (chance to become a starter) which would be good enough this year to be the 58th rated guy. So there at 52 or 64?,,,,,, he could have easily been gone if someone else liked him. The kid's resume, albeit from a lesser conference, was very impressive. Soph year was first team MEAC, he was defensive MEAC player of the year in both his Junior and Senior years. He also led the Senior Bowl in tackles (not to mention 19 tackles when they played Clemson).

 

Just proves once again the Mayocks of the world aren't always accurate. Also proves some small school kids can ball. Always better to research picks before being unhappy. Ballard did better in 18 then he did in 17 (basham in the 3rd and banner in the 4th were waved early). Hope he nails it Thursday. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

People love to talk about how smart Rick Venturi is, and he is.  However, if you look at his record as a head coach it’s not good, that just reminds me even bad football people are way smarter than anyone posting here when it comes to football.  

I listen to his on the field talk but laugh when he starts Player Personnel and Development Talk

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On 4/20/2019 at 6:25 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

but anyone should know a rookie would not be 27 years old. 

 

See Brandon weeden and margus hunt. It's rare, but it does happen :P

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Did I say anything dumb in here?  Is there any way to search without going through all 5 pages?

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On 4/21/2019 at 5:53 AM, chad72 said:

 

This is precisely the reason I don’t like all the hindsight for this thread. Pretty much all of us don’t know as much as Ballard and the scouts in depth about a player than what we have access to over the internet, period, whether it’s research articles or opinions of others.

 

By bringing up threads like these to roast people over the coals for disagreeing with Ballard, it creates a false narrative of wanting to stifle any expression of opinions, however contrarian. Degrees of contrarian will vary because we’re not cut out of the same cloth, so a little tolerance with the ridicule toned down would help us all as fans, IMO!!!

 

Peace!!! Happy Easter!!! :) 

I guess I don't see it that way.  There is nothing wrong with having a contrarian position and you can say I don't disagree with this pick.  And there were plenty of posts where people were expressing that kind of opinion.

 

But some people seem go a little farther that expressing an opinion.  The way people like to inject their opinion as fact is what I find funny and I have no problem going back and looking at it.  I hope some people will read what they said and maybe learn a little from it.

 

The draft in general is as much art as science.  We never know for sure how a player will turn out.  But people bashing Ballard or acting as though he doesn't know what he is doing (or that they know more) before ever seeing these guys on the field in a Colts uniform is worth a review.

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