What is really going on here with Luck?

[Bluefire4]

The only thing that concerned me a little is that Jim Irsay came out and said he expected Luck to be back around the start of the season and hypothetically mentioned week 3. If there was no setback I wonder why Irsay's time frame was so wrong.

[southwest1]

I know that LOS had her roof closed, which would very hot in there by the 4th Qtr & cramps can rear their ugly head at this point. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not slamming our roster's drive & effort. I just don't like how our penalties piled up & we allowed the Browns a respectable loss at the end. 

 

Yeah, I know our GM has done major roster turnover & maybe I'm expecting too much too quick.

 

I know a collapse when I see one & that falls entirely on the HC & the strength & conditioning coach. 

[crazycolt1]

12 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

The only thing that concerned me a little is that Jim Irsay came out and said he expected Luck to be back around the start of the season and hypothetically mentioned week 3. If there was no setback I wonder why Irsay's time frame was so wrong.

Why would it concern you? He was wrong. All he knew is what the best scenario would be and went with it.

[crazycolt1]

31 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I get what you're saying & you're not wrong BR 549. With Brissett holding down the fort, I feel good knowing that INDY can score on offense. JB has proven that & Simon, Melvin, & Hooker are making plays on defense & in the secondary week to week. 

 

Here's my biggest fear though: Giving Pags a 4 yr extension simply because Luck was healing & missed significant time. I could see Jimmy doing that as clear as day. I like our run blocking & there are times where our OL gives our QB a clean pocket. I just don't like how we fell apart in the 4th Qtr vs the Browns. Whenever we face a playoff team, we normally struggle unless it's the Broncos of late. 

 

Yes, I know Chuck won the game, but we played not to lose vs stepping on Cleveland's throat & slamming the door shut. Like Superman said in another thread why run into the teeth of an opponents D every down when Gore had the ball? Grrr! Try more screens or naked bootleg passes to your backs or try running outside for once perhaps? Hmmm...

Why are you fearing Pagano might be resigned?  He is in pretty much a no win situation right now having to coach a team that is rebuilding and is without their starting QB. Besides if Pagano does get an extension and then didn't do better with time Irsay can afford to fire him. A contract would not stop him.

[southwest1]

9 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Why are you fearing Pagano might be resigned?  He is in pretty much a no win situation right now having to coach a team that is rebuilding and is without their starting QB. Besides if Pagano does get an extension and then didn't do better with time Irsay can afford to fire him. A contract would not stop him.

Simple really. Because he has no idea how to close out games that he has a lopsided victory in. Penalties continue to be a problem under his tenure ever since 2012 late in games. Remember, Cleveland only won 1 game last yr so, it's not like we beat a powerhouse franchise. 

 

We had a large lead & we squandered it with like less than 10 minutes to go. 

 

Look CC1, has Pagano improved since 2012? Sure, he has. However, I think Chuck has taken us as far as he can go. I wish him future success somewhere else. I truly do. I want rings & my heart tells me know more than ever Chuck cannot deliver them here for INDY. 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, southwest1 said:

Simple really. Because he has no idea how to close out games that he has a lopsided victory in. Penalties continue to be a problem under his tenure ever since 2012 late in games. Remember, Cleveland only won 1 game last yr so, it's not like we beat a powerhouse franchise. 

 

We had a large lead & we squandered it with like less than 10 minutes to go. 

You already had Chuck killed and put in the meat grinder before this season even started. As long as you view him under the microscope and point out every thing you consider a flaw you will make an issue of it.

He couldn't do anything good in your opinion even under the circumstances he is coaching right now so carry on my friend.

[southwest1]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

You already had Chuck killed and put in the meat grinder before this season even started. As long as you view him under the microscope and point out every thing you consider a flaw you will make an issue of it.

He couldn't do anything good in your opinion even under the circumstances he is coaching right now so carry on my friend.

Couldn't I just flip that reply on it's head & claim that you seem to find no faults with his coaching results whatsoever & would gladly give him a decade or more to prove himself? Carry on my friend. 

 

Friends can disagree & still get along. We're cool. We just interpret Pagano's tenure totally different, which is fine. 

[sfergson727]

39 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

The only thing that concerned me a little is that Jim Irsay came out and said he expected Luck to be back around the start of the season and hypothetically mentioned week 3. If there was no setback I wonder why Irsay's time frame was so wrong.

It's not that his time frame is so long, it is that he has been lying to us from the beginning.  Ticket sales were probably the prime motivator.  I don't expect to see Luck again, ever.  I have the suspicion that his shoulder is not repaired, and will probably medical out sooner rather than later, but that is just me.

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Couldn't I just flip that reply on it's head & claim that you seem to find no faults with his coaching results whatsoever & would gladly give him a decade or more to prove himself? Carry on my friend. 

 

Friends can disagree & still get along. We're cool. We just interpret Pagano's tenure totally different, which is fine. 

No where did I ever say Pagano didn't have faults. Why do you feel the need to exaggerate to try to make your point because we do have different opinions?

[indy1888]

58 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

The only thing that concerned me a little is that Jim Irsay came out and said he expected Luck to be back around the start of the season and hypothetically mentioned week 3. If there was no setback I wonder why Irsay's time frame was so wrong.

 

To sell tickets and keep the fan base involved for the first 6 weeks or so of the season. Every week Luck is the focus, will he practice this week, will he play next week, etc.  It keeps people interested.  I doubt there has been a setback, i just think Irsay was being less then truthful or was simply uninformed about the length of time this process was really going to take. 

[indy1888]

22 minutes ago, sfergson727 said:

It's not that his time frame is so long, it is that he has been lying to us from the beginning.  Ticket sales were probably the prime motivator.  I don't expect to see Luck again, ever.  I have the suspicion that his shoulder is not repaired, and will probably medical out sooner rather than later, but that is just me.

 

 Agree about ticket sales, especially over the winter when there were season tickets for sale. That is when Irsay indicated that Luck would be ready for the season. I disagree that Luck will never play again, he will play this year but i wont be surprised if its week 7 or 8, maybe later. There was little chance Luck was going to be ready to start the season though.

[sfergson727]

8 minutes ago, indy1888 said:

 

 Agree about ticket sales, especially over the winter when there were season tickets for sale. That is when Irsay indicated that Luck would be ready for the season. I disagree that Luck will never play again, he will play this year but i wont be surprised if its week 7 or 8, maybe later. There was little chance Luck was going to be ready to start the season though.

I hear you.  My main concern comes from what happened after his injury.  If memory serves, he was receiving injections prior to every game in 2015, and those kind of injections are very harmful for the surrounding tissue.  Since a labrum cannot heal, it can only be anchored, if the surrounding tissue that the anchors are put in is not healthy, the repair will not be as good as it could.  Time will tell, hopefully he fully recovers, but I am bracing for the worst.

 

My father, a doctor in Indy, has speculated that Andrew will need a shoulder replacement, and I tend to agree with him.  But we'll see......

[Malakai432]

I don't know if even M Night Shalyammanlmblahblylan could figure this twist out. 

[southwest1]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

No where did I ever say Pagano didn't have faults. Why do you feel the need to exaggerate to try to make your point because we do have different opinions?

You do seem to defend Pagano every chance you get like constructive criticism of his duties as a HC is somehow similar to character assassination. Now, you are free to defend Chuck in whatever way you wish of course. But, let's not try to create the misleading narrative that I never give Pagano credit for anything like getting INDY to the AFC Championship game/DeFlate Game where NE proceeded to take us to the woodshed. Chuck got us to the precursor to the SB yes, but that occurrence doesn't guarantee him longterm job security. 

 

We still struggle with false starts, an uneven ground game to be charitable, & we let opponents stick around too much for my tastes. Has a different GM improved our defense? Abso-Bloody-Loot-LY. However, closing out games that skill set is something that Chuck should be able to exhibit in small doses by now, especially now that our D can get our QB extra touches. 

 

I exaggerate in my humor yes, but never when my Colts regress or slide backwards. I never joke about that. Why when I offered to start a thread about the things Pagano has done well since he's been here, did you claim that because everyone else was going to pile on & slam Chuck that you refused to even state your positive case for retaining him? It's a bizarre stance to take. 

 

Goodwill isn't an endless resource on Pags behalf. Eventually, we all get evaluated & Chuck is no exception to that rule. 

[southwest1]

Look, I will let this difference of opinion go, but inferring that I have been unfair to Chuck is crazy. I admire your loyalty to INDY's HC, but there will be life & success after Pagano. 

 

No, it was not my intention to minimize your perception of Chuck as a coach. You can highlight whatever qualities of his you like.

 

The real question is Luck's protection & development & what person puts him closer to a Lombardi Trophy? 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

9 hours ago, Indeee said:

Where has this "Officially" been reported? 

 

In the Indystar article the other day they said he’s been throwing for the past 9 weeks.

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2017/09/26/final-hurdles-andrew-luck/706293001/

 

“Irsay has hinted more than once at the obstacle that is the “four inches between the ears” – a nod to the mental hurdle Luck now faces, transitioning from whatever his throwing routine consists of now to a realer form of football. Luck has been throwing for roughly nine weeks, strengthening his arm gradually. What he’s yet to do is command a huddle, feel an incoming rush, take a hit.”

[Jules]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You keep this up Jules may Post again

 

I was checking up on Luck news (or the lack of?) and I still do keep up on Colts news. Been very busy lately though but I am not gone at all.

 

You know me, can't ever pass up some good cat pictures. I think I have an alarm that goes off in my house when cat pictures are being featured somewhere.  

[superrep1967]

16 hours ago, tfunky14 said:

Well, you are wrong about Luck throwing. He has been throwing, he has been throwing different lengths and velocity instructed by his trainers and doctors. His time table to return to practice is the next couple weeks.  How he performs at practice and maybe the most important aspect of his rehab is how he feels the next day after practice will be the telling tale.

Exactly, you said the long and short of it. 

[rockywoj]

13 hours ago, southwest1 said:

...

Here's my biggest fear though: Giving Pags a 4 yr extension simply because Luck was healing & missed significant time. I could see Jimmy doing that as clear as day.

...

Irsay already did that ... two years ago.  Pagano is now in year two of his 4 year extension, I do believe.  Ergo, there would be no extension until the winter / spring of 2019, assuming Pags steps up the caliber of his coaching and the Colts turn things around on the field.

 

Based on what I have seen this year, so far, though, Pags won’t be around in 2019 to get an extension.  

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

Irsay already did that ... two years ago.  Pagano is now in year two of his 4 year extension, I do believe.

Yep, things then are not how they are now. Circumstances change. Evaluations also change. 

[DaColts85]

16 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He is a Great player but does look like damage goods. He gets beat up a lot. I am glad we are being cautious with Luck.

Exactly!  His surgery was less severe but he has shown that rushing back can hurt a lot.  Setbacks plus just not crisp with the passes.

[JColts72]

21 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Exactly!  His surgery was less severe but he has shown that rushing back can hurt a lot.  Setbacks plus just not crisp with the passes.

Maybe he has PTSD from being shell-shocked playing behind his horrible o-line over the years.

[BullsColtsFan1]

According to this article posted 20 minutes ago, a November return is more likely?  If it is true, I am curious why he wasn't on the PUP list to start the year?  Just yesterday there was talk he would more than likely practice next Wednesday and need a few weeks of practice before coming back.  This article says 4 weeks of practice? 

 

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/profootballdoc/sd-sp-pfd-luck-colts-not-practice-0927-story.html

 

[DaColts85]

28 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

Maybe he has PTSD from being shell-shocked playing behind his horrible o-line over the years.

Hey it has happened to the likes of some talented QB's.  You just start hearing foot steps around you.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 hours ago, Jules said:

 

I was checking up on Luck news (or the lack of?) and I still do keep up on Colts news. Been very busy lately though but I am not gone at all.

 

You know me, can't ever pass up some good cat pictures. I think I have an alarm that goes off in my house when cat pictures are being featured somewhere.  

There she is! I just haven't seen you in a while. Glad you are ok.

[King Colt]

If Luck would insist on being called "Andy" he would not get hit s much.

[DaColts85]

9 minutes ago, King Colt said:

If Luck would insist on being called "Andy" he would not get hit s much.

Maybe I am the only one but I have no clue what this is suppose to mean?

[King Colt]

2 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Maybe I am the only one but I have no clue what this is suppose to mean?

It was intended for only a select few.

[DaColts85]

Just now, King Colt said:

It was intended for only a select few.

Awe inside jokes... not fun!

[ColtsBlueFL]

20 hours ago, Indeee said:

Look, I'm frustrated as is all of Colts nation, and maybe there is nothing under the surface here and I don't even mind the fact they are holding him out of PLAYING REAL games if he is not 100% able to. As all football fans know there is some speculation that Cam Newton might have been thrown into the fold too soon after he had the same surgery Luck did, as his play has been atrocious to say the least, so maybe there is something to that. I personally believe Cam Newton just stinks, never thought he was all that, However...

 

Luck HASN'T even thrown a PASS yet. Not a 2 yard toss much less a 50 yard bomb. This is what worries me the most. It's one thing to not want to throw him into game action b4 he's ready and/or our starting center is back but it's another thing for Luck to not attempt a pass in any form. The "Luck throwing 30 yard passes" was bunk.

 

We keep hoping he will practice, I'm hoping somebody sees him play catch with the equipment guy or hell, I'd even take him playing catch with himself. 

 

Incorrect.

 

20 hours ago, Nadine said:

yes, I've been wondering if he's been working out at all.  I mean, is he in game shape? He hasn't practiced with the team and it seems to me that once he's cleared, it's still going to take time to get ready to be in the game

 

such a mystery, IDK why

 

From Dr. Chao. Orthopedic surgeon; former head team physician for the San Diego Chargers for 17 years-

 

"For whatever went on with the Colts putting off Luck’s surgery until January — some 15 months after he reportedly initially injured his shoulder — the Colts got this right. They knew Luck would beat the timeline PUP would have required and have probably expected a mid-October return (barring setback) all along."

 

20 hours ago, Indeee said:

Where has this "Officially" been reported? 

 

see below-

 

20 hours ago, Indeee said:

So you are just assuming he has been throwing based on a speculation of what a rehab regiment would be?

 

If not where is the "official" word on Luck throwing a football?

 

No, they're not.  It was reported here in late July-

http://fox59.com/2017/07/24/colts-gm-chris-ballard-talks-about-andrew-lucks-status/

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

According to this article posted 20 minutes ago, a November return is more likely?  If it is true, I am curious why he wasn't on the PUP list to start the year?  Just yesterday there was talk he would more than likely practice next Wednesday and need a few weeks of practice before coming back.  This article says 4 weeks of practice? 

 

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/profootballdoc/sd-sp-pfd-luck-colts-not-practice-0927-story.html

 

 

Dr Chao has said this (and many like it for months now)

 

"For whatever went on with the Colts putting off Luck’s surgery until January — some 15 months after he reportedly initially injured his shoulder — the Colts got this right. They knew Luck would beat the timeline PUP would have required and have probably expected a mid-October return (barring setback) all along."

 

He has doubled down with this from your linked article-

 

"The clock on Luck's playing in a game won't even start until he practices. That is why I have expected Luck to play four weeks after he first practices – because it is rare that things go exactly as expected.

By not placing Luck on the regular season PUP list, the Colts were not saying that he would play before the end of week 6, they were simply calculating that Luck would be able to practice prior to the start of week 7. That is still expected to happen."

 

He November is based upon practice at week 6 to week 7, and 4 weeks team drills to be ready.  He could practice earlier, and be ready sooner.  and Dr. Chao gives wiggle room for this here-

 

 

"We have said for some time that due to his not practicing, Luck playing in September was out of the question. I estimated four weeks of practice before play.

Certainly, more aggressive rehab can work. And Luck having thrown before officially beginning practice could shorten that window.

 

"Let's say Luck practices but is limited next week, practices fully the following week working with the scout team and then participates full in practice as the starter in the third week. That is the fastest timeline with no setbacks, and that is only one week with the first team to get ready."

 

For those following, we all are watching Lucks practice status.  And when he starts, it will be 3 to 4 weeks from there, barring no unexpected issues arise.  Nothing has changed, except projected practice start days...

 

[BullsColtsFan1]

9 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Dr Chao has said this (and many like it for months now)

 

"For whatever went on with the Colts putting off Luck’s surgery until January — some 15 months after he reportedly initially injured his shoulder — the Colts got this right. They knew Luck would beat the timeline PUP would have required and have probably expected a mid-October return (barring setback) all along."

 

He has doubled down with this from your linked article-

 

"The clock on Luck's playing in a game won't even start until he practices. That is why I have expected Luck to play four weeks after he first practices – because it is rare that things go exactly as expected.

By not placing Luck on the regular season PUP list, the Colts were not saying that he would play before the end of week 6, they were simply calculating that Luck would be able to practice prior to the start of week 7. That is still expected to happen."

 

He November is based upon practice at week 6 to week 7, and 4 weeks team drills to be ready.  He could practice earlier, and be ready sooner.  and Dr. Chao gives wiggle room for this here-

 

 

"We have said for some time that due to his not practicing, Luck playing in September was out of the question. I estimated four weeks of practice before play.

Certainly, more aggressive rehab can work. And Luck having thrown before officially beginning practice could shorten that window.

 

"Let's say Luck practices but is limited next week, practices fully the following week working with the scout team and then participates full in practice as the starter in the third week. That is the fastest timeline with no setbacks, and that is only one week with the first team to get ready."

 

For those following, we all are watching Lucks practice status.  And when he starts, it will be 3 to 4 weeks from there, barring no unexpected issues arise.  Nothing has changed, except projected practice start days...

 

Thanks bud.  You already quoted me on another thread though . I am with ya now!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

18 hours ago, BR-549 said:

 

I have read all of your post in this regard and I fully understand (and appreciate)  what you are trying to say as I have had several surgeries myself and completely get the recovery side of it.  Your input on the subject is useful to those who care to embrace it, but it unfortunately it also falls on many deaf ears here on the forum.

 

Until AL is actually on the field whether in practice or a game, this is going to keep coming up so in a sense you are wasting your breath bro.  

 

To the bold:  That is unless he gets let down by his/ the OL that has been a work in progress for what seems like 7 or more years now, and someone hammers him to the turf were both of them land full force on that shoulder... ugh.  Lets hope not.

 

Thanks for your perspective, it is helpful.

I worry about that too certainly his shoulder will not be full strength .

[throwing BBZ]

1 hour ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I worry about that too certainly his shoulder will not be full strength .

 

 

  Hey, it's the NFL.
  The 1st big hit that causes any significant soreness and they will shut him down. I WOULD HOPE.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

5 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 

  Hey, it's the NFL.
  The 1st big hit that causes any significant soreness and they will shut him down. I WOULD HOPE.

Honestly he will be sore even without getting hit.

[dgambill]

21 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

What we have here is the failure of an instant-gratification culture to just be patient.

Well I'd say yes to that...but there are some...that would at least like the front office and team to be a little more transparent on the process. We don't need daily updates and we don't need his doctors giving us mri's etc....but it wouldn't hurt to say oh we think he is a few weeks away...or well its going slower than we thought (no fault of Andrews) so it might be week 6-8....etc....heck even a few video clips or pictures of him working out wouldn't hurt. People want to buy tickets when he returns....they may not want to buy tickets if its Jacoby....that's their right even though most are just going to support the team regardless but considering how much tickets cost that's asking a lot to just leave people in the dark...and that's what many feel....they purposely leave the fans in the dark to keep us guessing and to keep selling tickets and keep the stadium full. Regardless I'll be there next weekend...but considering this is entertainment a lot of people would like to know somewhat of the product that will be put on the field first.

[Coffeedrinker]

On 9/27/2017 at 4:55 PM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

 

I'm just sorry I can't like that more than once.  That is hilarious.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

5 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I'm just sorry I can't like that more than once.  That is hilarious.

 

I know!

 

Thanks for reminding me I posted that, every time I watch it (like a million now) I still giggle.

 

The last two seconds, when he tries to play it cool, gets me every time... 

[Jules]

On 9/28/2017 at 10:19 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

There she is! I just haven't seen you in a while. Glad you are ok.

 

I am good, don't worry. Been super busy though the last few months.

 

I will be around I think Sunday night but if we get blown out maybe I will hide.  But hopefully it's an interesting game that is worth watching.

[ColtsBlueFL]

16 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

I am good, don't worry. Been super busy though the last few months.

 

I will be around I think Sunday night but if we get blown out maybe I will hide.  But hopefully it's an interesting game that is worth watching.

 

https://pix.sfly.com/xreu3T