Tony Kornheiser-PTI

[Coltsfan0112]

On today's episode of pardon the interruption, Tony and Mike were talking about how bad Jed York, the owner of San Francisco 49ers has failed and later on in the conversation Tony mentioned how the 49ers are a team that is going down the drain and than mentioned how the Colts are another team that is going down the drain. He did not mention any other teams. I know this has been a hot topic on here but how does Irsay not see how everyone is bad mouthing his team and how changes need to be made. How does he not make any firings when you lose the division to the texans and they have brock and no jj watt. I know this team is rebuilding but Grigson has failed horribly. Pagano has had not much to work with but still his coaching has been poor as well. I'm seriously worried about the future of this team. Grigson will have 60 mil to play with to probably blow away once again and he can not draft a blue chip player if his life depended on it.

[grmasterb]

2 minutes ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

On today's episode of pardon the interruption, Tony and Mike were talking about how bad Jed York, the owner of San Francisco 49ers has failed and later on in the conversation Tony mentioned how the 49ers are a team that is going down the drain and than mentioned how the Colts are another team that is going down the drain. He did not mention any other teams. I know this has been a hot topic on here but how does Irsay not see how everyone is bad mouthing his team and how changes need to be made. How does he not make any firings when you lose the division to the texans and they have brock and no jj watt. I know this team is rebuilding but Grigson has failed horribly. Pagano has had not much to work with but still his coaching has been poor as well. I'm seriously worried about the future of this team. Grigson will have 60 mil to play with to probably blow away once again and he can not draft a blue chip player if his life depended on it.

Wilbon and Kornheiser have long had an ax to grind with Irsay. So, in other news, water is wet.

[DougDew]

Different topic.  Same thread.

[Coltfreak]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Different topic.  Same thread.

Same topic different thread 

[GoColtsWin]

Yeah, those two were Manning fans when he was w/us. But that's as far as the love went regarding the Colts. As has been said, there seems to be a personal problem with Wilbon/Kornheiser and Irsay. 

[IndySouthsider]

21 minutes ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

On today's episode of pardon the interruption, Tony and Mike were talking about how bad Jed York, the owner of San Francisco 49ers has failed and later on in the conversation Tony mentioned how the 49ers are a team that is going down the drain and than mentioned how the Colts are another team that is going down the drain. He did not mention any other teams. I know this has been a hot topic on here but how does Irsay not see how everyone is bad mouthing his team and how changes need to be made. How does he not make any firings when you lose the division to the texans and they have brock and no jj watt. I know this team is rebuilding but Grigson has failed horribly. Pagano has had not much to work with but still his coaching has been poor as well. I'm seriously worried about the future of this team. Grigson will have 60 mil to play with to probably blow away once again and he can not draft a blue chip player if his life depended on it.

Well heck, here I thought Luck and Hilton were pretty blue chip. Kelly looks headed for blue chip status! 

[Colts_Fan12]

5 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

Well heck, here I thought Luck and Hilton were pretty blue chip. Kelly looks headed for blue chip status! 

Hilton sure that's one. Kelly idk if I'd ever consider a C a blue chip player he is good tho. Can't even count Luck he was gonna be picked by 90% of the league at #1.

[Coltsfan0112]

1 minute ago, IndySouthsider said:

Well heck, here I thought Luck and Hilton were pretty blue chip. Kelly looks headed for blue chip status! 

Luck was an easy choice. Yes, Hilton is one so I do give credit. Kelly does look good but he is not there yet and may not be and thats what waits to be seen. So really 1 out of how many players drafted. I don't trust the guy

[IndyTrav]

Why is it when anyone in the media has anything other than glowing praise for the Colts it's because they have an ax to grind, loved manning, don't know what they are talking about etc? 

[grmasterb]

9 minutes ago, IndyTrav said:

Why is it when anyone in the media has anything other than glowing praise for the Colts it's because they have an ax to grind, loved manning, don't know what they are talking about etc? 

I actually think the local writers have pretty good insight into the Colts.  But when national guys and bloggers say the Colts are "spiraling down the drain," it borders on buffoonery.

[Superman]

Niners -- Four seasons, four coaching changes, 7 wins the past two seasons, going down the drain

 

Colts -- Staying put in the name of continuity, 8-8 the past two seasons, going down the drain

 

Seems some perspective is missing.

 

Wilbon and Kornheiser DO have an irrational hatred for Jim Irsay. This is not a tortured Colts fan saying this. 

 

 

[PeterBowman]

Really don't care what Kornholer thinks

[grmasterb]

[IndySouthsider]

4 minutes ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

Luck was an easy choice. Yes, Hilton is one so I do give credit. Kelly does look good but he is not there yet and may not be and thats what waits to be seen. So really 1 out of how many players drafted. I don't trust the guy

You say that! But he didn't take RG3 did he?

 

There were plenty that would have!

 

Same as Bill taking Manning over Leaf. You got to give credit for being right! Don't not pretend it was a no brainer then!

[loudnproudcolt]

I have to agree Kornheiser is not a big fan of Irsay and I have not heard very much out of his mouth that has been positive towards them, Florio is the same way! Many reporters have biases against certain teams!

[BOTT]

2 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

You say that! But he didn't take RG3 did he?

 

There were plenty that would have!

 

Same as Bill taking Manning over Leaf. You got to give credit for being right! Don't not pretend it was a no brainer then!

It was

[IndySouthsider]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

It was

nonsense I can provide a litany of articles and quotes questioning the better of the two for both instances!!

[BOTT]

1 minute ago, IndySouthsider said:

nonsense I can provide a litany of articles and quotes questioning the better of the two for both instances!!

I'm sure you can.  You can do,that for a host of subjects.  But the overwhelming majority preferred Luck.

[Coltsfan0112]

6 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

You say that! But he didn't take RG3 did he?

 

There were plenty that would have!

 

Same as Bill taking Manning over Leaf. You got to give credit for being right! Don't not pretend it was a no brainer then!

I think if he did take RG3 he would have been humiliated by everyone in the nfl. When everyone says he's the top graded qb since elway I think it's pretty. % peyton manning told Irsay you gotta draft Luck so I'm pretty sure it was a no brainer

[Coltsfan0112]

Just now, Coltsfan0112 said:

I think if he did take RG3 he would have been humiliated by everyone in the nfl. When everyone says he's the top graded qb since elway I think it's pretty easy. Peyton manning told Irsay you gotta draft Luck so I'm pretty sure it was a no brainer

 

[BOTT]

Just now, Coltsfan0112 said:

I think if he did take RG3 he would have been humiliated by everyone in the nfl. When everyone says he's the top graded qb since elway I think it's pretty. % peyton manning told Irsay you gotta draft Luck so I'm pretty sure it was a no brainer

Irsay was taking Luck no matter what.  Polian more or less said that.

[Coltsfan0112]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

Irsay was taking Luck no matter what.  Polian more or less said that.

Ya but when Irsay told Manning we are going to let you go and draft luck. Manning even said you gotta take Luck. Most people knew Luck was the no brainer. It wasn't that hard to find a blue chip player when a top prospect like that only comes around once in awhile. That's all I'm saying is Grigson is a joke. 

[BOTT]

2 minutes ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

Ya but when Irsay told Manning we are going to let you go and draft luck. Manning even said you gotta take Luck. Most people knew Luck was the no brainer. It wasn't that hard to find a blue chip player when a top prospect like that only comes around once in awhile. That's all I'm saying is Grigson is a joke. 

I was just agreeing with you about it being obvious and out of Grigson's hands.

[CF4L]

1 hour ago, GoColtsWin said:

Yeah, those two were Manning fans when he was w/us. But that's as far as the love went regarding the Colts. As has been said, there seems to be a personal problem with Wilbon/Kornheiser and Irsay. 

 

 

They weren't Manning fans but they do have an axe to grind with Jimbo that being said they aren't wrong at this point with the Colts either.

[deedub75]

44 minutes ago, Superman said:

Niners -- Four seasons, four coaching changes, 7 wins the past two seasons, going down the drain

 

Colts -- Staying put in the name of continuity, 8-8 the past two seasons, going down the drain

 

Seems some perspective is missing.

 

Wilbon and Kornheiser DO have an irrational hatred for Jim Irsay. This is not a tortured Colts fan saying this. 

 

 

 

Niners already down the drain and Colts on the way?

[dw49]

45 minutes ago, Superman said:

Niners -- Four seasons, four coaching changes, 7 wins the past two seasons, going down the drain

 

Colts -- Staying put in the name of continuity, 8-8 the past two seasons, going down the drain

 

Seems some perspective is missing.

 

Wilbon and Kornheiser DO have an irrational hatred for Jim Irsay. This is not a tortured Colts fan saying this. 

 

 

 

Amazing that the 49ers imploded . They had worlds of talent on both sides of the ball . A good coach. A QB with a rocket arm that could also beat you with his legs .  They lose the SB (2013) on the Raven goalie plus they had a bevy picks in that draft. 

[cbear]

54 minutes ago, grmasterb said:

I actually think the local writers have pretty good insight into the Colts.  But when national guys and bloggers say the Colts are "spiraling down the drain," it borders on buffoonery.

 

National guys and bloggers are no more trustworthy or relevant then us clueless fans.  

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

Niners already down the drain and Colts on the way?

 

I don't think so. I think the Colts are good enough with Pagano to win 10+ games every year, and maybe even a couple playoff games. I just don't think he's good enough to match up with the best teams in the league, and I don't think he's good enough to win a SB with, unless the path is all favorable matchups. On a more game-specific basis, I don't think his staff handles matchups and strategy in a progressive, proactive manner.

 

I don't think the Colts are anywhere near a drain at this point. Even mentioning them in the same breath as the Niners is heresy. 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

Amazing that the 49ers imploded . They had worlds of talent on both sides of the ball . A good coach. A QB with a rocket arm that could also beat you with his legs .  They lose the SB (2013) on the Raven goalie plus they had a bevy picks in that draft. 

 

Three years after Harbaugh -- who Baalke couldn't get along with, which may or may not be his fault -- and they are probably the worst team in the league, and might not have a QB, assuming Kaepernick opts out. It's no wonder Baalke is fired.

 

I don't think they're that awful, talent-wise, and I don't even think they've blown their drafts. Coaching has left a lot to be desired, and their QB situation is significantly worse.

 

Maybe Jimmy Raye gets that job and trades for Pagano...

[B~Town]

50 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

You say that! But he didn't take RG3 did he?

 

There were plenty that would have!

 

Same as Bill taking Manning over Leaf. You got to give credit for being right! Don't not pretend it was a no brainer then!

Pretty sure if any candidate said RG3 was there man they were shown out of the complex interview over .

[dw49]

20 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Three years after Harbaugh -- who Baalke couldn't get along with, which may or may not be his fault -- and they are probably the worst team in the league, and might not have a QB, assuming Kaepernick opts out. It's no wonder Baalke is fired.

 

I don't think they're that awful, talent-wise, and I don't even think they've blown their drafts. Coaching has left a lot to be desired, and their QB situation is significantly worse.

 

Maybe Jimmy Raye gets that job and trades for Pagano...

 

Crazy looking at Kaepernick in 2012 and looking at him now. Has to be at least a little bit that defensive coaches adapted to what he and RG3 brought to the table.

[WoolMagnet]

Kornheiser is a buffoon sometimes.  He loves to stir the pot , however, he's often a lil off on his perspective.

i just don't get it.

we have a YOUNG franchise QB. We have a young, greatly improved OL that will be much better next year.  We have exciting and productive WRs and TEs.  We have a young and improving DL.  And a couple young safeties in Geathers and green that could easily pan out.  We also have pro bowl kicker and punter.  Our only real weakness, imo, is LB.. 

Why do people think we need to rebuild or wipe the slate clean?  We are literally only a couple LBs, AND maybe a CB away from having a roster, imo, easily good enough to make a run. Anyone paying attention would see that.  We have a depth issue, sure, all teams do.  Keep in mind, we played half the season with backups on defense and 2 or 3 rookies on the OL.

  Now getting to brass Titans what is the problem?

many say Fire Grigs and Pagano.  What the heck, throw the baby AND the tub out with the bath water.  Thankfully, Irsay doesn't make rash, emotional decisions as many here would like.  But what is best?

i hate to blow up the whole thing when I think we are close in some ways.

but it's hard to ignore how flat this team starts games.  That is MY biggest gripe really.  I don't know what is best.  But I think Grigs overall has done well.  Every GM a has their Walden moment.  The Trent deal was different.  We were on a run, we lost like 4 RBs and were desperate.  I put that failure more on Trent than anyone else.  

Pags may be the sacrificial lamb, imo.  Realizing I really have no idea the reality or what the players think of him as a coach.  I do feel Chuck improved his coaching this year but maybe this team needs more of a dictator.  But then does that mean a whole new coaching staff?

this is a big decision so it's quite humorous when some think it should have happened by 5pm last Sunday.  But I have to say, at least in my view, Irsay has made very good and logical decisions of this magnitude.  The guy just needs some time sometimes.

be patient Colt fans.  We're still in the AFC south so at least the division should be ours again soon.  Let's hope for more.

 

[deedub75]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think so. I think the Colts are good enough with Pagano to win 10+ games every year, and maybe even a couple playoff games. I just don't think he's good enough to match up with the best teams in the league, and I don't think he's good enough to win a SB with, unless the path is all favorable matchups. On a more game-specific basis, I don't think his staff handles matchups and strategy in a progressive, proactive manner.

 

I don't think the Colts are anywhere near a drain at this point. Even mentioning them in the same breath as the Niners is heresy. 

 

You say that the Colts are good enough to win 10+ games with Pagano and then you list all of the reason why there not.  The last 2 seasons are no flukes and I think the team is a middling .500 team.  All this with a franchise QB who continues to get battered and bruised on a weekly basis.  

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

You say that the Colts are good enough to win 10+ games with Pagano and then you list all of the reason why there not.  The last 2 seasons are no flukes and I think the team is a middling .500 team.  All this with a franchise QB who continues to get battered and bruised on a weekly basis.  

 

No, I disagree, for several reasons.

 

1) Most obvious, 2015 was absolutely a fluke. And the team was still 8-8. 

 

2) The changes I think are needed on offense are things this staff has done sporadically over the last two years. It's not beyond them, it's just not their preferred approach. 

 

3) The QB getting battered is a significant scheme issue, but it's also a QB issue. Luck is tailor made for the Coryell offense, and he knows/loves it, IMO. But he holds the ball too long, and he knows that, also. He did this at the beginning of 2015, and often throughout 2016, including Week 17. 

 

I put all of this on coaching, and I have no problem with saying that with a couple very obvious tweaks, we could have won 12 games. But we're not talking about advanced game planning, Belichick-level stuff. We're talking about running screens, draws, slants, cut blocking the edge, etc. We're talking about doubling WMDs like Antonio Brown. I think Pagano is capable of this; this staff has done it at times. That's what's so frustrating, and I think it cost us at least 4 games.

 

But toe-to-toe with Belichick in the playoffs? Harbaugh, Tomlin, Carroll, Payton, etc.? I think you need that to be a perennial SB contender, and Pagano doesn't have that, IMO. It took him two games to figure out the Pats' double strong rushing attack. He's been shredded by Big Ben three times in a row, but the first time featured a defensive gameplan that was actually meant to get ahead of the Steelers, and turned out to be a disaster; since then he's gone back to his preferred "cat coverage," and it's still not good enough.

 

I think it's an overreaction to say this 8-8 stuff is typical. 

[IndyTrav]

3 hours ago, grmasterb said:

I actually think the local writers have pretty good insight into the Colts.  But when national guys and bloggers say the Colts are "spiraling down the drain," it borders on buffoonery.

 

Does it? I don't know that I agree, but I can see how people will jump to those conclusions....pretty sure SF went to a SB and 2 other NFC conf games, then finished 8-8 then fell off a cliff. No one would say they were spiraling after the 8-8 year and yet here they are.... 49ers had some bad breaks in Bowman, Aldon, and Willis, but those are things that happen, and I think if something were to happen with Luck (and IMO the odds are going in that direction) to think this team wouldn't be in the basement just like SF is dishonest. We are one piece of bad luck away from being in the same position. 

[Fisticuffs111]

Yeah, I'm with Supes on the future outlook.

I think Pagano, with help from Luck and the offense, can get this team to at least 10+ wins most every season, especially depending on how the division shapes up. They could possibly even win some playoffs games. I just don't have much confidence going against the elite teams and head coaches. Coaching is just so key deep in the playoffs, and in big games in general, and I just can't see Pagano putting together a string of great games against high level competition.

[Smoke317]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Three years after Harbaugh -- who Baalke couldn't get along with, which may or may not be his fault -- and they are probably the worst team in the league, and might not have a QB, assuming Kaepernick opts out. It's no wonder Baalke is fired.

 

I don't think they're that awful, talent-wise, and I don't even think they've blown their drafts. Coaching has left a lot to be desired, and their QB situation is significantly worse.

 

Maybe Jimmy Raye gets that job and trades for Pagano...

Pretty please?  I hope we make that trade. 

[gacoop1]

If Irsay is not listening to the fans perspective about the lackluster performance all around on this team, then he should listen to the analyst on all the networks.  There has to be some truth there don't you agree? Unless he is in denial.....

[Defjamz26]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think so. I think the Colts are good enough with Pagano to win 10+ games every year, and maybe even a couple playoff games. I just don't think he's good enough to match up with the best teams in the league, and I don't think he's good enough to win a SB with, unless the path is all favorable matchups. On a more game-specific basis, I don't think his staff handles matchups and strategy in a progressive, proactive manner.

 

I don't think the Colts are anywhere near a drain at this point. Even mentioning them in the same breath as the Niners is heresy. 

Pretty much agree. I don't think they're headed in the right direction with the current staff. I agree that they can get back to the playoffs eventually but Pagano isn't going to win you a Super Bowl. I don't think they'll adapt to the division opponents improving.

 

Whether people want to admit it or not, a lot of their expectations of the Colts are based on the fact that they know the other division opponents are bad. But if Houston can get steady QB play, Tennessee can continue building, and Jacksonville can get a good coach (and kicker) I think the Colts will struggle to make the playoffs every year with this regime. They're not a team that can hang with anyone.

 

They're not going down the drain, but I also don't think their in line to just take the AFC by storm either. 

[deedub75]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

No, I disagree, for several reasons.

 

1) Most obvious, 2015 was absolutely a fluke. And the team was still 8-8. 

 

2) The changes I think are needed on offense are things this staff has done sporadically over the last two years. It's not beyond them, it's just not their preferred approach. 

 

3) The QB getting battered is a significant scheme issue, but it's also a QB issue. Luck is tailor made for the Coryell offense, and he knows/loves it, IMO. But he holds the ball too long, and he knows that, also. He did this at the beginning of 2015, and often throughout 2016, including Week 17. 

 

I put all of this on coaching, and I have no problem with saying that with a couple very obvious tweaks, we could have won 12 games. But we're not talking about advanced game planning, Belichick-level stuff. We're talking about running screens, draws, slants, cut blocking the edge, etc. We're talking about doubling WMDs like Antonio Brown. I think Pagano is capable of this; this staff has done it at times. That's what's so frustrating, and I think it cost us at least 4 games.

 

But toe-to-toe with Belichick in the playoffs? Harbaugh, Tomlin, Carroll, Payton, etc.? I think you need that to be a perennial SB contender, and Pagano doesn't have that, IMO. It took him two games to figure out the Pats' double strong rushing attack. He's been shredded by Big Ben three times in a row, but the first time featured a defensive gameplan that was actually meant to get ahead of the Steelers, and turned out to be a disaster; since then he's gone back to his preferred "cat coverage," and it's still not good enough.

 

I think it's an overreaction to say this 8-8 stuff is typical. 

 

2015 was definitely not a fluke. It was just delayed a couple of seasons. I saw nothing Grigson did prior to that season that I thought was improving the team. The team was old and Grigson added a bunch of old players. I could not believe that people were picking them to get to get to the Super Bowl. This has been an 8-8 team for 5 seasons that just happened to overachieve in the first 3 due to Luck's heroics.