What's THE problem here?

[Myles]

1 hour ago, tikyle said:

 

Is it?  Or is the AFC South just better now?  Remember in those 11-5 seasons we were 5-5 vs the (rest of the) NFL and 6-0 vs the AFC South.  It looks like this year we will be 5-5 vs the (rest of the) NFL and 3-3 vs the AFC South.

I don't know if the division is any better.   Houston has typically been better.   They just swapped.   They used to have a good offense now it is a good defense.  Andre Johnson, Slaten, Shaub.   Tennessee was usually mediocre and Jax was bad like they are this year.  

[VaAllDay757]

It's more so the coaches....they don't know how to use the players strength to their best abilities.....run gore more outside.....use more bootleg plays with luck......do little trick plays with dorsett since he's very fast....defense we found something with butler at safety keep that in mind....do more press coverage with vonte and do more crossing blitzes since it's been effective when necessary but they're too dumb to realize that

[VaAllDay757]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I think the problem is that the QB will leave his TE one on one with Clowney, and not change the protection or to a play that rolls to the right.

The way the formation was setup allen had to block clowney in that situation unless luck wanted to waste a timeout and change the whole play but that's not luck fault that was chud fault for even calling that play

[lollygagger8]

15 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

It's a bit of a catch 22 with those two.  If you keep Allen over Fleener, you have a guy who can do more, but isn't on the field as much due to health.  Then people complain that he's no good if he isn't on the field.  If you keep Fleener over Allen, you have a guy who can catch the ball, but is fairly reliable to be available each week.  Then people complain that you kept a guy who gets brought down by arm tackles and can't block.

 

We would've been better off signing Martellus Bennett. Massive frame, can actually catch the ball, great blocker, etc. He has roughly same production as Fleener this year (more than Allen), and he got paid a lot less money than Allen or Fleener who both were grossly overpaid. 

 

Bennett, Doyle and Swoope would be a great combo. 

[tikyle]

45 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

We're still worse.  We lots good players like Freeman and Dwight Lowery.  2012 and 2013 Reggie Wayne was still solid.  The roster has less talent now than it did before.

 

I don't know about that.  Mike Adams has played better than Dwight Lowery ever played for us.  TY is a top 5 WR right now.  Reggie wasn't that in 2012 or 2013.  Luck is supposed to be a better/wiser player now.  The offensive line sure is more stable than it was then.  So is our defensive line.

 

I just can't say we were better then.  The record was better but just think in 2012 or 2013 the Jags and Titans were jokes and the Texans were below average.  Now the Jags are below average (they still beat us) and the Texans and Titans are average football teams.  It's a world of difference.  We can't just write in 6 wins before the season starts.  Oh and the Texans are average w/o their best player.  Imagine if #99 ever returns to form.  That team instantly becomes the Chiefs of these last few years.

[lollygagger8]

1 minute ago, VaAllDay757 said:

The way the formation was setup allen had to block clowney in that situation unless luck wanted to waste a timeout and change the whole play but that's not luck fault that was chud fault for even calling that play

 

I wonder if the coaches look at the game plan and look at that formation and say to each other:

[VaAllDay757]

3 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

I don't know about that.  Mike Adams has played better than Dwight Lowery ever played for us.  TY is a top 5 WR right now.  Reggie wasn't that in 2012 or 2013.  Luck is supposed to be a better/wiser player now.  The offensive line sure is more stable than it was then.  So is our defensive line.

 

I just can't say we were better then.  The record was better but just think in 2012 or 2013 the Jags and Titans were jokes and the Texans were below average.  Now the Jags are below average (they still beat us) and the Texans and Titans are average football teams.  It's a world of difference.  We can't just write in 6 wins before the season starts.  Oh and the Texans are average w/o their best player.  Imagine if #99 ever returns to form.  That team instantly becomes the Chiefs of these last few years.

Reggie was a top 5 wr in 2013 until he tore his acl I think he was #4 in receiving yards

[tikyle]

1 hour ago, smittywerb said:

I think the problem is we never had a legit rebuild.  We had a "re-tool" and it's finally catching up.  Signing over-the-hill FA's and consistently picking in the 20s due to playing in a weak division are the causes, and a crap HC.  From the beginning, I think we should've blew it up.  Keep our talent (Luck, Davis, Hilton, etc.) and rebuild from the ground up.  Instead, we patched up a few places and let Luck do the rest.  Now, our division has done what WE were suppose to do and instead, they are the ones playing good defense and running the ball, something we said were going to do but can't.

 

It's time to blow it up again.  If the next GM doesn't blow it up and start rebuilding this team from the bottom, then be prepared to face the same thing.  

 

Get ready Colts fans, this ride might be a long one before we reach the top again.

This is a strong candidate for post of the year.

 

I will say though that we kind of did a rebuild on the offense.  On the defense it was a re-tool like you said.  I mean outside of Castanzo who on that offense isn't young/new?  Gore is the only guy that stands out.  On defense we went grocery shopping and got all the wrong stuff.  To be honest we are a slow defense that can't stop the run.  That is a bad combination.

[IinD]

Grigano Chudachino

[21isSuperman]

1 minute ago, tikyle said:

 

I don't know about that.  Mike Adams has played better than Dwight Lowery ever played for us.  TY is a top 5 WR right now.  Reggie wasn't that in 2012 or 2013.  Luck is supposed to be a better/wiser player now.  The offensive line sure is more stable than it was then.  So is our defensive line.

 

I just can't say we were better then.  The record was better but just think in 2012 or 2013 the Jags and Titans were jokes and the Texans were below average.  Now the Jags are below average (they still beat us) and the Texans and Titans are average football teams.  It's a world of difference.  We can't just write in 6 wins before the season starts.  Oh and the Texans are average w/o their best player.  Imagine if #99 ever returns to form.  That team instantly becomes the Chiefs of these last few years.

When guys like Wayne or Lowery leave, we not only lose their on-field production, but we also lose their leadership.  Same for guys like Freeman or Redding.  Those guys helped stabilize the roster and provide leadership.  Art Jones, for example, is no Cory Redding, even if Jones has more talent.

 

The point I'm trying to make is we had valuable players in the early years and when they left the team, we didn't replace them properly.  If you want to claim that we have more talent now, are we seeing better results?  I'd make the claim that good leadership, which we don't have, is required to bring that talent together.  I'd also claim that the coaching isn't much better.  Manusky's defenses were at least aggressive whereas I find Monachino's to be vanilla.  Chud is very inconsistent with his playcalling and doesn't see the obvious calls that need to be made.  So overall, the team performed better in the early years and has regressed since then, in my opinion

[Valpo2004]

1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

It's a bit of a catch 22 with those two.  If you keep Allen over Fleener, you have a guy who can do more, but isn't on the field as much due to health.  Then people complain that he's no good if he isn't on the field.  If you keep Fleener over Allen, you have a guy who can catch the ball, but is fairly reliable to be available each week.  Then people complain that you kept a guy who gets brought down by arm tackles and can't block.

 

Seems to me that Allen's blocking is overrated.  

 

Also you can find TE's on the waiver wire who can block.  You don't give a TE 7.35M a year for his blocking.  You pay linemen to do that job.  

 

Heck go find a lineman on the waiver wire and call him a TE if you want a TE who can block.

 

Or go find a fullback on the waiver wire, call him a TE if you want a TE who can block.

 

TE's in today's NFL are paid to catch passes.  

 

And I don't care if Fleener's brought down by arm tackles.  At least he caught the freaking ball which is a lot more then I can say about Allen who is basically the Derrius Heyward Bay of tight ends.  

 

 

[tikyle]

3 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Reggie was a top 5 wr in 2013 until he tore his acl I think he was #4 in receiving yards

 

Reggie played 7 games and had 503 yds, 38 receptions and 2 TDs.  That's 71 yd/gm.  That ranked 17th for the season.  If you extrapolate his stats to 16 games his totals (would have been) 5 TD, 87 rec and 1150 yds.  That would have put him right around TY numbers for that year (5 TD, 82 rec, 1083 yds) which was about 20th.  I believe you're thinking of another Reggie Wayne season or you are downplaying how good receivers were in 2013.

[tikyle]

7 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

When guys like Wayne or Lowery leave, we not only lose their on-field production, but we also lose their leadership.  Same for guys like Freeman or Redding.  Those guys helped stabilize the roster and provide leadership.  Art Jones, for example, is no Cory Redding, even if Jones has more talent.

 

The point I'm trying to make is we had valuable players in the early years and when they left the team, we didn't replace them properly.  If you want to claim that we have more talent now, are we seeing better results?  I'd make the claim that good leadership, which we don't have, is required to bring that talent together.  I'd also claim that the coaching isn't much better.  Manusky's defenses were at least aggressive whereas I find Monachino's to be vanilla.  Chud is very inconsistent with his playcalling and doesn't see the obvious calls that need to be made.  So overall, the team performed better in the early years and has regressed since then, in my opinion

Not to disagree with your point here but even if everything you said is correct, if the Texans, Titans and Jags were better in those years (say as good as they are now) do you think we would've gone 6-0 against them three times in a row?

 

Cause remember barely beating the Texans with Brian Hoyer and Mr. Harvard turning the ball over every chance they could get.  I remember I think once actually losing to the Titans on a last minute like 80 yd TD reception.  I remember playing close games vs the Jags when they had no offense whatsoever but a couple of guys on D.

[Dingus McGirt]

Can't fire the HC.  He's a cancer survivor.

 

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

In hindsight, as bad as the roster was after the Painter year, the Colts wasted a lot of valuable draft picks by selecting only three players with the first pick in each of the first three rounds.  Luck was very expensive in terms of not trading down, but look how expensive Fleener and Allen were.  Two good picks pretty much wasted since neither TE reached their potential.  Could've traded down in rounds 2 and 3 and gotten many more players to fit the switch over in schemes.  Some would have probably had new contracts by now and be very productive for the Colts.

 

I think getting Luck was a no brainer.  But definitely those 2 picks were head scratchers for me.

[VaAllDay757]

58 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

Reggie played 7 games and had 503 yds, 38 receptions and 2 TDs.  That's 71 yd/gm.  That ranked 17th for the season.  If you extrapolate his stats to 16 games his totals (would have been) 5 TD, 87 rec and 1150 yds.  That would have put him right around TY numbers for that year (5 TD, 82 rec, 1083 yds) which was about 20th.  I believe you're thinking of another Reggie Wayne season or you are downplaying how good receivers were in 2013.

I meant his 2012 season where he had around 1300 yards or so that season he was playing lights out that season

[jameszeigler834]

6 hours ago, tikyle said:

CALM DOWN.

 

Brock was 14-24 with 174 yd and a INT.  He didn't look like an all pro.  He barely resembled a pro.  It was an awful loss though.  Your QB can't have 3 TOs in any game.  Especially one vs a team that has a problem scoring.

Well the one int allen fell the first one I don't have any idea what he was trying to do and the sack fumble is on the coaches for have allen blocking clowney awful.

[Douzer]

The Colts are paying the price for 3 draft flops. 3 catastrophic failures on draft day equals 20 or so players who are not on the team today, enough to comprise two full starting units.

 

That is THE problem.

 

They have done a decent job in free agency, and the last couple of drafts to avoid a complete collapse and fall to just a middle of the road, 8-8 franchise.  

 

From my armchair, the lack of experienced, formidable talent on the O-line has been the teams most glaring weakness for 5 straight years and continues to this day. Now the glaring holes have also developed at pass rush and LB'er as well. 

 

Judgement still remains an open question to me, as someone decided to start Joe Reitz at RT this season. They determined that would be satisfactory, they decided no additional personnel moves were warranted at RT. To me, this decision speaks volumes about the leadership in the organization today. Also to me, a quality player, at just this one position, would have changed the outcome of this years campaign significantly. So, IMHO, the individual behind this decision clearly demonstrated they lack the football acumen to continue in their current position.

 

[GwinnettColt]

There are several problems and they are all intertwined:

 

Grigson and the waste of first round picks (except Kelly and Luck).

 

Grigson in free agency.  

 

Pagano and being outcoached

 

OC/DC and play calling.  

[ReMeDy]

6 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Can't fire the HC.  He's a cancer survivor.

 

The irony is, if Bruce Arians was doing bad as our HC, we couldn't fire him either because he keeps getting hospitalized. 

[NewColtsFan]

11 hours ago, Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes said:

Bottom line, there is no improvement or consistency week to week.  Is that a talent problem, coaching problem,GM problem, owner problem or all of the above?  All this angst and second guessing about individual calls and plays is skirting the answer to that question.  

 

I would say there's something wrong in every column,   but that said,  the primary problem is the lack of talent on the roster.

 

During the off-season most major media outlets projected the Colts would not win the South,   would not be in the playoffs and wrote that the team simply does not have much talent on the roster.

 

People here simply did NOT want to believe that.     The polite responses said something like "they may be right, but can we please wait until the season to know this?"....

 

OK.....   we've completed 14 weeks and we're 6-7.     How does there prediction look now?

 

Pretty accurate.

 

[Luck2Hilton4TD]

The talent of the roster simply isn't good and our coach isn't a game-changer by any means. 

 

We have Luck, Hilton, Gore is solid when we use him, and 3 of our starting offensive lineman are good most games, but the other 2 stink. Meanwhile, our other receivers can't get open. 

 

Defensively, we're old and slow with no pass rush and there's no star players on that side of the football besides maybe Vontae when he's going well--but there's only so many ways a cornerback can impact the game defensively. It's not like a Von Miller or Luke Kuechly. 

[AZColt11]

Lots of good points here which only underscores the amount of problems (plural) this team has.  This is NOT a one year fix.

[jet1968]

I believe Grigson is the problem. He is a very poor talent evaluator. 

[deedub75]

On 12/12/2016 at 0:14 PM, smittywerb said:

I think the problem is we never had a legit rebuild.  We had a "re-tool" and it's finally catching up.  Signing over-the-hill FA's and consistently picking in the 20s due to playing in a weak division are the causes, and a crap HC.  From the beginning, I think we should've blew it up.  Keep our talent (Luck, Davis, Hilton, etc.) and rebuild from the ground up.  Instead, we patched up a few places and let Luck do the rest.  Now, our division has done what WE were suppose to do and instead, they are the ones playing good defense and running the ball, something we said were going to do but can't.

 

It's time to blow it up again.  If the next GM doesn't blow it up and start rebuilding this team from the bottom, then be prepared to face the same thing.  

 

Get ready Colts fans, this ride might be a long one before we reach the top again.

 

If we had a competent GM, this probably wouldn't have happened. Unfortunately, Grigson did not see the team for what it was in 2012.  There were a lot of anomalies that season. He got caught up in the belief that he was a player or 2 away from winning it all and he may very well have been that close but he kept picking the wrong player or 2 for it to work. In addition, he wasn't building a team that could be a long term winner. 

[jet1968]

I agree withe R E G G I E

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2016/10/04/reggie-wayne-points-colts-front-office-decisions/91583598/

[Barry Sears]

I guess we need to ask Browns fans for advice on how to deal with being fed a bunch of optimistic PR during the off season in regard to our draft picks and FA signings, then having that bubble burst during the regular season.  It's been getting worse each year that Grigson has been GM.  Players win games, and you need to get the best 53 man roster possible, which we haven't been able to do with him in charge.

 

I put some of the blame on the HC and coaching staff, but they don't play the game, although we obviously aren't well prepared each week.

 

Our play this past Sunday was similar to how the Jets played against us the week before...no fire, no discipline, no plan, no win.

 

There are a multitude of problems with this team that have been mentioned here already.  We used to have a winning attitude, knowing that every time we took the field we expected to win.  Now, it's hoping we'll win and that's a big difference.

[WarGhost21]

Is "everything" a valid answer?

[AZColt11]

8 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

Is "everything" a valid answer?

I would say so.

[LockeDown]

You have to build your team starting with QB, LT and Pass rusher.  We have NO pass rusher.  Our LT is good but has been inconsistent.  Our QB is great but holds the ball too long and questionable decision making.  Manning, Glenn and Freeney.  We need to have 3 guys who at least compare to those guys.  When your foundation is strong then you build on that. 

[richard pallo]

8 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

You have to build your team starting with QB, LT and Pass rusher.  We have NO pass rusher.  Our LT is good but has been inconsistent.  Our QB is great but holds the ball too long and questionable decision making.  Manning, Glenn and Freeney.  We need to have 3 guys who at least compare to those guys.  When your foundation is strong then you build on that. 

Also a RB an WR.  Therefore the triplets.  We have TY.  Now we need the RB (Edge). 

[Myles]

1 hour ago, LockeDown said:

You have to build your team starting with QB, LT and Pass rusher.  We have NO pass rusher.  Our LT is good but has been inconsistent.  Our QB is great but holds the ball too long and questionable decision making.  Manning, Glenn and Freeney.  We need to have 3 guys who at least compare to those guys.  When your foundation is strong then you build on that. 

I agree, except I think the entire O-line is the most important.   Makes the RB's better.   Makes it so Luck holding the ball too long is not an issue.   Makes the WR's better and keep the defense fresh.

[superrep1967]

On 12/12/2016 at 0:04 PM, aaron11 said:

the colts were a lot better when reggie and mathis were playing like pro bowlers

 

 

 

Yeah, And Grigson wasn't involved in that. 

[throwing BBZ]

On 12/12/2016 at 11:58 AM, tikyle said:

 

Is it?  Or is the AFC South just better now?  Remember in those 11-5 seasons we were 5-5 vs the (rest of the) NFL and 6-0 vs the AFC South.  It looks like this year we will be 5-5 vs the (rest of the) NFL and 3-3 vs the AFC South.

 

 We played Stanky football all the seasons we were 11-5.
 Lucks late game antics against all those mediocre-bad teams kept a 4-5 win type roster going.
 We should be 4-9 Now IMO. 
  I will forever believe Irsay Mentored Grigson on our most grievous roster mistakes. That is the primary reason he extended both of them.

[LockeDown]

9 hours ago, Myles said:

I agree, except I think the entire O-line is the most important.   Makes the RB's better.   Makes it so Luck holding the ball too long is not an issue.   Makes the WR's better and keep the defense fresh.

Yes.  I was just saying at the very least, we need that foundation.  To be great, you need more.

[cbear]

On 12/12/2016 at 3:27 AM, Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes said:

Bottom line, there is no improvement or consistency week to week.  Is that a talent problem, coaching problem,GM problem, owner problem or all of the above?  All this angst and second guessing about individual calls and plays is skirting the answer to that question.  

 

Hey, the SACK PACK!  Love it!!