Reality...

[bluephantom87]

Time to start another season BUT I think this will be a trying one for the Colts and I HOPE I'm wrong!! A lot troubles me about the team heading into the season. Talent wise I don't think the team is GOOD enough to compete with the big boys or even the teams in our own division that have improved greatly since last season. Chuck's BIG cushion has always been to stock pile wins in the very poor afc south along with receiving 9 wins Bruce A coached the team to which was added to Chuck's padded win total. Upon further review Chuck OUTSIDE the division has taken some of the most lopsided losses from the elite teams in which his teams looked OUTMATCHED, OUTCOACHED and ILL prepared! People keep saying it's ONLY preseason but I'm seeing the same old slow start, undisciplined team that seems to lack focus and TOUGHNESS. I still can't believe that both Chuck and Grigs were given new contracts but for 4 MORE YEARS!!! I've seen enough of them both now to realize that neither are elite and can definitely be upgraded. I see an 8-8 or 7-9 season for these Colts and that inflated record as a subpar hc will start to nose dive because the cake walk known as the afc south is over.

[Everyone]

     Can we just start an official Grigson/Pagano hate topic that's pinned already?  It seems like this topic is started every week.  I'm not saying the criticism isn't warranted but I don't think there needs to be so many new posts about them. 

[#12.]

One thing is certain - I've completely given up any thought of competing with New England, Pittsburgh, Seattle, whoever... the NFL's elite.  For probably the first time since its inception, I'm thinking AFC South only.  I'm concerned about competing with Tennessee, Jacksonville and Houston.  Not exactly where you hoped to be 5 years into this process.

[Valpo2004]

54 minutes ago, #12. said:

One thing is certain - I've completely given up any thought of competing with New England, Pittsburgh, Seattle, whoever... the NFL's elite.  For probably the first time since its inception, I'm thinking AFC South only.  I'm concerned about competing with Tennessee, Jacksonville and Houston.  Not exactly where you hoped to be 5 years into this process.

 

Last time the Colts played Seattle they won.

 

Colts beat the Super Bowl champs last year too.  In fact I believe the Colts are 3-1 against Manning's Denver teams.

 

They have the ability to compete with the elite at times I think depending on matchups.

 

There does need to be greater team consistency however as I also know of many games where the Colts where down by 21 points before halftime.  

[Myles]

My feelings have not been affected by the pre season.   They are the same as they were in training camp.   I think this team is going to have a rough year.  While they did address the o-line, they will be starting rookies who will need time.   The defense will get run on big time (again).   Gore will not look as good as he could because of the line.   Luck will throw too many picks because of the rush.  I think they are looking at 9-7 or 10-6 at best.  

 

However, I hope I am wrong.    The O-line could come together.   The offense could score allot because they have weapons to do it.  I'm not giving up on this team.    

[#12.]

17 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Last time the Colts played Seattle they won.

 

Colts beat the Super Bowl champs last year too.  In fact I believe the Colts are 3-1 against Manning's Denver teams.

 

They have the ability to compete with the elite at times I think depending on matchups.

 

There does need to be greater team consistency however as I also know of many games where the Colts where down by 21 points before halftime.  

 

I'm talking 2016, not 2013.  When they defeated Seattle and Denver in 2013, that was probably the peak of this era - with a healthy and effective Reggie and Mathis.  I've seen nothing from this team in 2016 to suggest they could compete with New England, Seattle... whoever.  Like I said, I'm worried about Jacksonville and Tennessee.

 

And yes, you can point to some success against Denver, but when you look at this team's record outside the AFC South and against winning teams, in this era, that is an anomaly.

[bluephantom87]

30 minutes ago, Everyone said:

     Can we just start an official Grigson/Pagano hate topic that's pinned already?  It seems like this topic is started every week.  I'm not saying the criticism isn't warranted but I don't think there needs to be so many new posts about them. 

I guess because there's no way to sugar coat the subject matter when talking Colt football. We are now YEAR FIVE into this first time hc and gm experiment. Instead of trending up the Colts are declining talent wise and APPEAR to be unfocused and unprepared ON the field!!! The slow starts are the norm now. Three OCs into Luck's young career yet for the past few years 1st and 2nd down runs up the gut creating 3rd and long situations are the staple of this offense. We are now into the 2nd dc and I don't know how much he can do void of  playmakers on that side of the ball BUT IT WAS ALWAYS GOOD ENOUGH TO GET THROUGH THE WEAK AFC SOUTH. A division that has had one of the worst winning % the last few years in nfl history. It is what it is and the SOONER Irsay takes off the blinders the better off the Colts will be.....

[bababooey]

20 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Last time the Colts played Seattle they won.

 

Colts beat the Super Bowl champs last year too.  In fact I believe the Colts are 3-1 against Manning's Denver teams.

 

They have the ability to compete with the elite at times I think depending on matchups.

 

There does need to be greater team consistency however as I also know of many games where the Colts where down by 21 points before halftime.  

We have very few impressive wins over elite teams in the last few years. Remove Manning/Denver and we haven't had a win vs a conference finalist since SF and Seattle in Luck's second year. Most elite and even several non-elite teams whoop us, minus Carolina who we had a chance against last year.

[Everyone]

4 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

     Not saying I don't agree with some of the things said, just think it would be easier if there was a pinned topic where everyone can get stuff off of there chests without having to start a new topic.

[csmopar]

Did Saturday look promising? No ,absolutely not.  

 

Do we have a TON of injuries? Yes

 

Is it time to just sit Luck for safety and throw the season away, without playing a single regular season game? No

 

Time to panic? No

 

Let's wait till we see it all come together or fall apart before we start looking at the sky is falling.

 

That said, if IF IF the Colts fail to win the division and make the playoffs, I think we're looking at completely new management and at least a new head coach. But it's not time to call for firings.......just yet.

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, bababooey said:

We have very few impressive wins over elite teams in the last few years. Remove Manning/Denver and we haven't had a win vs a conference finalist since SF and Seattle in Luck's second year. Most elite and even several non-elite teams whoop us, minus Carolina who we had a chance against last year.

 

That is why Irsay tied Pagano and Grigson at the hip. If one goes, the other one goes as well. Contrary to the length of the contract which is 4 years, 2 years is the most either of them gets without another trip to the AFCCG. In other words, if we don't at least make the AFCCG in the next 2 years while beating Pitt or the Pats in the regular season, I have a gut feeling both of them are gone.

[bluephantom87]

25 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Last time the Colts played Seattle they won.

 

Colts beat the Super Bowl champs last year too.  In fact I believe the Colts are 3-1 against Manning's Denver teams.

 

They have the ability to compete with the elite at times I think depending on matchups.

 

There does need to be greater team consistency however as I also know of many games where the Colts where down by 21 points before halftime.  

I think that was more of Manning's play against the Colts... The 7-9 Raiders beat them last year also but like you said the Colts have had TOO MANY games in which they have trailed BIG before halftime and that falls on Chuck with the team coming out flat on BOTH sides of the ball.

[richard pallo]

This is getting so old so fast.  I know we all think we are smarter than the GM or coach but it's only preseason.  Really,  another thread about a hopeless season, poor coaching and a terrible GM.  And we haven't played a meaningful game yet.  It's a long season.  Let's play it and see what happens. 

[Jason_]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

This is getting so old so fast.  I know we all think we are smarter than the GM or coach but it's only preseason.  Really,  another thread about a hopeless season, poor coaching and a terrible GM.  And we haven't played a meaningful game yet.  It's a long season.  Let's play it and see what happens. 

 

[Smonroe]

8 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

This is getting so old so fast.  I know we all think we are smarter than the GM or coach but it's only preseason.  Really,  another thread about a hopeless season, poor coaching and a terrible GM.  And we haven't played a meaningful game yet.  It's a long season.  Let's play it and see what happens. 

 

We're undefeated in the regular season so far.  Yeah, maybe wait a game or two before getting out the pitchforks and torches.  

 

I like the idea of a "All is lost, panic now!" thread.  Then, if we do dive they can all tell us how right they were.  

[tikyle]

1 hour ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Last time the Colts played Seattle they won.

 

Colts beat the Super Bowl champs last year too.  In fact I believe the Colts are 3-1 against Manning's Denver teams.

 

They have the ability to compete with the elite at times I think depending on matchups.

 

There does need to be greater team consistency however as I also know of many games where the Colts where down by 21 points before halftime.  

It's all about the matchup.  Denver matches up terribly with the Colts, especially with a noodle armed Manning at the helm.  The Colts can cover the two outside guys for Denver and without a great TE, the Colts can handle that offense and generate enough on offense to win.

 

But the Colts can't beat a team like NE with the best TE in football.  Any team with an above average TE and an adequate QB and any semblance of a running game will give IND fits.  Also any team with above average special teams will give IND problems as well.

[NorthernBlue]

To everyone saying how in year five the colts have failed to create a contending team, well its hard to do that when year 5 hasn't even started. Like come on, how are you gonna judge the 2016 colts when the 2016 colts haven't even played a meaningful down yet? At least wait till week 1 before making a judgement (which btw is still too early, but it's better than doing it now).

[Valpo2004]

39 minutes ago, tikyle said:

It's all about the matchup.  Denver matches up terribly with the Colts, especially with a noodle armed Manning at the helm.  The Colts can cover the two outside guys for Denver and without a great TE, the Colts can handle that offense and generate enough on offense to win.

 

But the Colts can't beat a team like NE with the best TE in football.  Any team with an above average TE and an adequate QB and any semblance of a running game will give IND fits.  Also any team with above average special teams will give IND problems as well.

 

Actually I think we beat Denver even when they had Julius Thomas there.  But I fully understand your point.

 

I actually think a lot of it has to do with the receivers.  Davis matches up well against big WR's like DT.  

[tikyle]

7 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

To everyone saying how in year five the colts have failed to create a contending team, well its hard to do that when year 5 hasn't even started. Like come on, how are you gonna judge the 2016 colts when the 2016 colts haven't even played a meaningful down yet? At least wait till week 1 before making a judgement (which btw is still too early, but it's better than doing it now).

Let's be realistic here.  The Colts wasted Luck's "bargain" years.  Let's look at the last 10 SB winners

2015 DEN

2014 NE

2013 SEA

2012 BAL

2011 NYG

2010 GB

2009 NO

2008 PIT

2007 NYG

2006 IND

 

What do most of those teams have in common?  Six of the ten were by QB's on "rookie" deals.  And seven of the ten (add Tom Brady) were by QB's on very cap friendly deals.  The Colts had 4 years of Luck and wasted that.  Now after having set the market with his deal it will be much harder to fill the roster (or keep on the roster) the necessary talent to compete at SB level.  That's just the name of the game.

[superrep1967]

2 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

Time to start another season BUT I think this will be a trying one for the Colts and I HOPE I'm wrong!! A lot troubles me about the team heading into the season. Talent wise I don't think the team is GOOD enough to compete with the big boys or even the teams in our own division that have improved greatly since last season. Chuck's BIG cushion has always been to stock pile wins in the very poor afc south along with receiving 9 wins Bruce A coached the team to which was added to Chuck's padded win total. Upon further review Chuck OUTSIDE the division has taken some of the most lopsided losses from the elite teams in which his teams looked OUTMATCHED, OUTCOACHED and ILL prepared! People keep saying it's ONLY preseason but I'm seeing the same old slow start, undisciplined team that seems to lack focus and TOUGHNESS. I still can't believe that both Chuck and Grigs were given new contracts but for 4 MORE YEARS!!! I've seen enough of them both now to realize that neither are elite and can definitely be upgraded. I see an 8-8 or 7-9 season for these Colts and that inflated record as a subpar hc will start to nose dive because the cake walk known as the afc south is over.

I totally agree I couldn't have said it better myself. Good Post!

[superrep1967]

46 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

To everyone saying how in year five the colts have failed to create a contending team, well its hard to do that when year 5 hasn't even started. Like come on, how are you gonna judge the 2016 colts when the 2016 colts haven't even played a meaningful down yet? At least wait till week 1 before making a judgement (which btw is still too early, but it's better than doing it now).

I see what your saying but it seems we keep having the same problems pre-season or not. 

[NorthernBlue]

35 minutes ago, tikyle said:

Let's be realistic here.  The Colts wasted Luck's "bargain" years.  Let's look at the last 10 SB winners

2015 DEN

2014 NE

2013 SEA

2012 BAL

2011 NYG

2010 GB

2009 NO

2008 PIT

2007 NYG

2006 IND

 

What do most of those teams have in common?  Six of the ten were by QB's on "rookie" deals.  And seven of the ten (add Tom Brady) were by QB's on very cap friendly deals.  The Colts had 4 years of Luck and wasted that.  Now after having set the market with his deal it will be much harder to fill the roster (or keep on the roster) the necessary talent to compete at SB level.  That's just the name of the game.

I'm not a cap guru by any means, but just because a team paid there QB a lot of money, it doesn't mean they can't build a contending team. Just look at Denver. They had PM and still one of the toughest defenses in the league. The team can still build a contender, if they spend wisely in FA and draft well (which it looks like they may have started doing).

[Jim H.]

bluephantom87 -  The word you are looking for is "soft."

[chad72]

52 minutes ago, tikyle said:

Let's be realistic here.  The Colts wasted Luck's "bargain" years.  Let's look at the last 10 SB winners

2015 DEN

2014 NE

2013 SEA

2012 BAL

2011 NYG

2010 GB

2009 NO

2008 PIT

2007 NYG

2006 IND

 

What do most of those teams have in common?  Six of the ten were by QB's on "rookie" deals.  And seven of the ten (add Tom Brady) were by QB's on very cap friendly deals.  The Colts had 4 years of Luck and wasted that.  Now after having set the market with his deal it will be much harder to fill the roster (or keep on the roster) the necessary talent to compete at SB level.  That's just the name of the game.

 

True. All of those teams also finished 6-2 or better in their first 8 games, even if they had a late season slump. 

 

The last 4 led the league in illegal contact and/or DB penalties. Contact that gets flagged during the regular season is let go a bit during the playoffs. So I'd like our DBs to take a few penalties to play "not so soft".

[Myles]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

This is getting so old so fast.  I know we all think we are smarter than the GM or coach but it's only preseason.  Really,  another thread about a hopeless season, poor coaching and a terrible GM.  And we haven't played a meaningful game yet.  It's a long season.  Let's play it and see what happens. 

Would you say the same if this thread was about how good someone was playing?   Why is it wrong to show concern for how the 1st string has looked in preseason?    I think it is fine to do so.  

From what I say against the Eagles, I have great concern for the Colts o-line play.   If it looks that bad in the first 4-5 games of the regular season, are you still giving the HC and GM an pass?   What have you seen to make you think the line will suddenly be good?  I know there is hope.   I have that too.   I hope they surprise me and it might happen.   But the evidence so far points the other way.  

[Iancolts]

I agree Grigson messed up any chance we had at a SB because he payed for older talent at a cheaper price but in the end he still spent up the salary cap.  Now we have a 100 mill QB and zero supporting cast.  

[Clem-Dog]

I've seen enough preseason football to know better.  They've finished on the other end of this spectrum too with strong preseason play followed by a bad season.   

 

Historically speaking, the Colts do not  sacrifice their vets in order to win meaningless games.  On paper this team is superior to last season's.  I'm still highly optimistic.

[Old Colt]

4 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Last time the Colts played Seattle they won.

 

Colts beat the Super Bowl champs last year too.  In fact I believe the Colts are 3-1 against Manning's Denver teams.

 

They have the ability to compete with the elite at times I think depending on matchups.

 

There does need to be greater team consistency however as I also know of many games where the Colts where down by 21 points before halftime.  

The last Time the Colts played the Jags, the jags put up 51 on the Colts....  this team still lacks toughness, discipline and any sense of urgency.  It will be better when the season starts, when the injured players get back, when we chop some wood, opps the seasons over and we miss the playoffs, .... we will be better next year....

[Smonroe]

38 minutes ago, Clem-Dog said:

I've seen enough preseason football to know better.  They've finished on the other end of this spectrum too with strong preseason play followed by a bad season.   

 

Historically speaking, the Colts do not  sacrifice their vets in order to win meaningless games.  On paper this team is superior to last season's.  I'm still highly optimistic.

 

You're in the wrong thread.  Logic, experience, and football knowledge have no place here.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

I guess because there's no way to sugar coat the subject matter when talking Colt football. We are now YEAR FIVE into this first time hc and gm experiment. Instead of trending up the Colts are declining talent wise and APPEAR to be unfocused and unprepared ON the field!!! The slow starts are the norm now. Three OCs into Luck's young career yet for the past few years 1st and 2nd down runs up the gut creating 3rd and long situations are the staple of this offense. We are now into the 2nd dc and I don't know how much he can do void of  playmakers on that side of the ball BUT IT WAS ALWAYS GOOD ENOUGH TO GET THROUGH THE WEAK AFC SOUTH. A division that has had one of the worst winning % the last few years in nfl history. It is what it is and the SOONER Irsay takes off the blinders the better off the Colts will be.....

 

Here we go......     again.

 

The Colts were without the following....

 

Their top three defensive lineman.       Jones, Anderson and Langford.

 

Their top SIX cornerbacks.           Including Davis,  Robinson,  Cromartie,  Butler and Smith.

 

The OL is still rounding into shape and the Mewhort injury certainly didn't help.

 

Are you aware of ANY OF THIS?         Because if you are,  then you shouldn't have written your posts.    Your posts make no sense if you're aware of the Colts injuries.

 

It's a long season.     This season was going to be difficult even in the best of circumstances.    And so far,  with all the injuries,  we're far from the best circumstances.      Take a deep breath.     We're all going to have to ride out the storm together.....

 

[threeflight]

I am a huge HUge HUGE Colts fan.  Have been since I was 3 years old.  And I am usually pretty good at predicting what the team will be like heading into the year.  And this year?  I think it could get bad folks....as in 6-10 or 5-11 bad.

 

Forget about 5-6 automatic wins in our division.  IF we finish .500 against our division I will be happy.

 

We need to look at talent. And when it comes down to it, we are pretty devoid of it.

 

On Offense, we have Luck, Hilton, Moncrief, and maybeeee Dorsett.  Is there really anyone else that another team would be dying to have?  I don't see it.  Allen is good, but lots of teams of good TEs these days. Our OL?  Cmon.

 

On Defense it is even worse.  We really don't have any great young talent coming up besides maybe Anderson?  Davis is good no doubt, and most teams would love to have him.  So he is another.

 

But besides that?? 

 

Back in the Manning days, we had so much more talent on all sides of the ball.  Manning, Wayne, Harrison, Clark, James, Saturday, Sanders, Freeny, Mathis and on and on.   We don't have anything close to that now. Nor do we have the coaching.  And as good as Luck COULD be, right now, he is not Manning.

 

We got lucky the past few years because of our division.  Those days are over.  We just do not have a very good, young, exciting team.  It's a team of "well he's Ok" players to players that just are plain bad.  With a few really good players mixed in.

 

Get ready for a long year imo.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, threeflight said:

I am a huge HUge HUGE Colts fan.  Have been since I was 3 years old.  And I am usually pretty good at predicting what the team will be like heading into the year.  And this year?  I think it could get bad folks....as in 6-10 or 5-11 bad.

 

Forget about 5-6 automatic wins in our division.  IF we finish .500 against our division I will be happy.

 

We need to look at talent. And when it comes down to it, we are pretty devoid of it.

 

On Offense, we have Luck, Hilton, Moncrief, and maybeeee Dorsett.  Is there really anyone else that another team would be dying to have?  I don't see it.  Allen is good, but lots of teams of good TEs these days. Our OL?  Cmon.

 

On Defense it is even worse.  We really don't have any great young talent coming up besides maybe Anderson?  Davis is good no doubt, and most teams would love to have him.  So he is another.

 

But besides that?? 

 

Back in the Manning days, we had so much more talent on all sides of the ball.  Manning, Wayne, Harrison, Clark, James, Saturday, Sanders, Freeny, Mathis and on and on.   We don't have anything close to that now. Nor do we have the coaching.  And as good as Luck COULD be, right now, he is not Manning.

 

We got lucky the past few years because of our division.  Those days are over.  We just do not have a very good, young, exciting team.  It's a team of "well he's Ok" players to players that just are plain bad.  With a few really good players mixed in.

 

Get ready for a long year imo.

If I had a dime for every Coltfan who says "Ah Ha" I know what Colts record will be.  No sorry you don't.

[PeterBowman]

How many times did Peyton's Colts look like crap in the pre season only to have a great regular season?

 

 

 

[threeflight]

19 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

How many times did Peyton's Colts look like crap in the pre season only to have a great regular season?

 

 

 

With most of his teams, you could see the talent on them, so it was just a matter of doing it.

 

With this team?  Do you see talent?  I don't.

 

And I don't care how nice of a guy Pagano is, doesn't pretty much everyone have that thought in the back of their minds that he just does not "have it"?  That he is not the guy who can take them to the SB?  That he basically is not and will never be in the upper echelon of coaches?  

 

As for Grigson.  He has been a disaster.  Just terrible.  

[Jason_]

14 minutes ago, threeflight said:

And I don't care how nice of a guy Pagano is, doesn't pretty much everyone have that thought in the back of their minds that he just does not "have it"? 

 

no

[NewColtsFan]

22 minutes ago, threeflight said:

With most of his teams, you could see the talent on them, so it was just a matter of doing it.

 

With this team?  Do you see talent?  I don't.

 

And I don't care how nice of a guy Pagano is, doesn't pretty much everyone have that thought in the back of their minds that he just does not "have it"?  That he is not the guy who can take them to the SB?  That he basically is not and will never be in the upper echelon of coaches?  

 

As for Grigson.  He has been a disaster.  Just terrible.  

 

NFL.com reported one of the reasons that Irsay flip-flopped from firing Pagano to keeping Pagano is that the buzz was going around the league that if Pags had been fired,  he would've been offered a HC job by several teams within a week.      He's got a good reputation.  

 

Now,  he may not be a Super Bowl coach,  but you can win with Pagano.     He's proven that.    

 

Great?     Maybe not.    But,  good to very good?      Yes.

 

Most of our problems are talent related......    (or, more accurately,  lack of talent...)

 

[BCoop]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

NFL.com reported one of the reasons that Irsay flip-flopped from firing Pagano to keeping Pagano is that the buzz was going around the league that if Pags had been fired,  he would've been offered a HC job by several teams within a week.      He's got a good reputation.  

 

Now,  he may not be a Super Bowl coach,  but you can win with Pagano.     He's proven that.    

 

Great?     Maybe not.    But,  good to very good?      Yes.

 

Most of our problems are talent related......    (or, more accurately,  lack of talent...)

 

 

I would hope that isn't the reason Irsay flip-flopped (if he did in the first place). I was one from the get-go that believed our issues were coordinator related. I was fine with Pagano staying no matter what. But if that's how Irsay is running things now, I am concerned for the long-term success of the franchise. He should be making calls based on the best move for the team, not what other owners/GM's think of his decisions.

[WoolMagnet]

6 minutes ago, BCoop said:

 

I would hope that isn't the reason Irsay flip-flopped (if he did in the first place). I was one from the get-go that believed our issues were coordinator related. I was fine with Pagano staying no matter what. But if that's how Irsay is running things now, I am concerned for the long-term success of the franchise. He should be making calls based on the best move for the team, not what other owners/GM's think of his decisions.

i doubt this.  Jim has always danced to his own tune. You don't operate at that level of business by doing what others say.  I've never known jim to be a flip-flopper.  He makes well calculated decisions, imo.

[NewColtsFan]

23 minutes ago, BCoop said:

 

I would hope that isn't the reason Irsay flip-flopped (if he did in the first place). I was one from the get-go that believed our issues were coordinator related. I was fine with Pagano staying no matter what. But if that's how Irsay is running things now, I am concerned for the long-term success of the franchise. He should be making calls based on the best move for the team, not what other owners/GM's think of his decisions.

 

 

I'm sure it wasn't the only reason,  but it was one of the reasons.

[Gavin]

Mostly talent related.

 

-Some players have not lived up to there talent level

-Some of our best talent is just old in football years and there best years are simply behind them

-Injuries to key players

-Lack of attention to details