ESPN shows a troublesome Colts drafting trend...

[jameszeigler834]

4 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I still don't think they're haters though. Skip Bayless was the only real Colts hater. He would find a way make any conversation about the Colts about Luck and turning the ball over.

 

ESPN is a joke network, but they've never shown any particular vendetta against any time. But they do have/had obsessions with certain athletes like Lebron, RGIII, Manziel, Curry, etc...

That's all ESPN is  haters I don't know why they are talking about past when we had a good draft this year.

[BOTT]

29 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

That's all ESPN is  haters I don't know why they are talking about past when we had a good draft this year.

I hope so, but we don't actually know that yet.

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, BOTT said:

Kinda shows if you ignore in the draft the defense you probably won't have a good defense lol.

Kinda shows if you ignore defense in the draft you probably won't have a good defense.

 

 

i should proof read more often.

[bleevit]

The draft picks and remaining players on the roster are indeed black and white. This only shows that Ryan Grigson brought in a lot of defensive players through free agency during this period who beat out draftees.

[BOTT]

20 minutes ago, bleevit said:

The draft picks and remaining players on the roster are indeed black and white. This only shows that Ryan Grigson brought in a lot of defensive players through free agency during this period who beat out draftees.

All those studs he brought in......

[bleevit]

2 minutes ago, BOTT said:

All those studs he brought in......

I make no qualitative analysis of the free agents other than to say they beat out the rookies. Some of that might have been Grigson wanting to validate his acquisitions.

[ztboiler]

22 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Kinda shows if you ignore defense in the draft you probably won't have a good defense.

 

 

i should proof read more often.

ESPN used an interesting, relevant and accurate fact.  I have no problem with that.  It's a Twitter type of fact - quick hitting shallow insight.

 

It has very little value for analysis unless all the facts around it are included as well.  I'll start with this missing fact...to get 5 empty drafts on D, they went back 7 drafts, 3 of which would cover players that would have to be on 2nd contracts now - that eliminates most players by default, especially late round picks where most of our D players were selected.

[Defjamz26]

29 minutes ago, bleevit said:

The draft picks and remaining players on the roster are indeed black and white. This only shows that Ryan Grigson brought in a lot of defensive players through free agency during this period who beat out draftees.

Actually most of his FA players aren't on the roster either. Only Langford, Jones, Jackson, Gore, Adams, Cole, Walden, and Butler are left if we don't count Patrick Robinson since we just got him. All of those guys have expiring contracts and probably won't be on the 2017 roster meaning that at the start of the 2017 season, the only FA pickups acquired in 5 offseasons (not acquired via trade) left will be Patrick Robinson. And the funny thing is 4 of the guys on the list were 2015 acquisitions, meaning Walden is the longest tenured FA signing.

 

Of the players he traded for, Vontae and Moore are left. Which is an okay return rate because the only other players I think he's traded for are Richardson, Winn, and whatever the name of the guy was that we got for Hughes.

 

And it's not that the defensive players beat out the rookies, it's just that he hasn't drafted defense often or very high. The highest drafted defensive player we have is D'Juon Smith.

[Cynjin]

12 hours ago, Carlos Danger said:

This seems like cherry picking to me....

 

5 of 12 picks on defense since 2012 are still on the roster and most of the picks on D have been in the later rounds...

 

That's not really a bad track record... I guarantee that I can take a look at any team's drafts since then and find late round guys that washed out. Werner was really the only egregious pick in that group and he was considered a great value by most until he wasn't anymore.

 

Anyone who considers Hughes, Fugger, Jackson, or Newsome to be busts doesn't understand what a bust is...

 

 

 

I agree with what you say, but the defense has been largely ignored.  The last draft the Colts picked a very good defensive player is probably 2006, when they took Bethea.  I am reserving my opinion on the last two drafts until they play for a few years.  Stating the obvious, the 2013 draft and the trading of the 1st round pick in 2014 draft has really hurt the current edition of the Colts.

[superrep1967]

16 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

This is sad 

Yeah Grigs has really done a terrible job. A good majority of his draft picks have failed and so has his free agents for the most part. I mean it's not a perfect science or anything. But come on Grigs maybe he's in over his head. But I'm hoping these draft picks workout better.   

[twfish]

6 hours ago, K-148 said:

He was basically a 2012 NFL draft pick. With this pick the Dolphins took Jamar Taylor. So would the Colts.

You can argue it however you want but it will never be counted as a draft pick because he wasn't, he was a trade no matter how you look at it and you cant be sure the colts would have taken jamar.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Here are all the D players drafted.  And it is true, all drafte D players before 2015/2016 are no longer on the roster.  However, there is an UDFA that is... Zack Kerr. 

 

This list is horrid in hindsight-

 

2010

Jerry Hughes - bust, then traded (1)
Pat Angerer - Better than I expected, but still gone
Kevin Thomas - Who?  At least we got Lloyd and Fokou for him
Ricardo Mathews - What else do you want out of 7th rounder? (7)
Kavell Conner - For a 7th rounder, this guy delivered  (7)
Ray Fisher - An Indy 'Homer' pick if I ever saw one.  Fail (7)

The Polian's really did miss on this one, IMHO.

 

2011

Drake Nevis  - A CFL grade DT , nice. Not (3)
Chris Rucker - Who? An unknown and knucklehead?  (6)

2012

Josh Chapman - Filled a need , and a hole.  Not much else.  (5)
Tim Fugger - Wasn't this guy waive/injured before the close of training camp? (7)

 

2013

Bjoern Werner - Jerry Hughes 2. We should just draft a center or something! (1)
Montori Hughes - We traded UP in round 5 for him. Why?  (5)
John Boyett - Ummm, yeah.  Way to shore up that safety spot. Knucklehead :-(  (6)

 

2014

Jonathan Newsome - Potential unrealized,  Puff Puff Puff (5)
Andrew Jackson -   Isn't his picture on a $20 bill U.S. currency? (6)
*Zack Kerr - He is on the roster!!  (UDFA) So, technically not drafted!!

 

2015

D'Joun Smith -  Hey, he's still on the roster, yes? Recovering injury (3)
Henry Anderson - Another one on roster, recovering injury  (3)
Clayton Geathers-  On roster, slated to start!  (4)
David Parry - Nice round 5 choice, and on roster  (5)

 

2016  (New hopefuls)

T.J. Green - The new age safety, once developed  (2)
Hassan Ridgeway - Not an edge guy, but pressure up the middle is good (4)
Trevor Bates - Round 7 guys are so iffy, we'll see.  (7)

[jameszeigler834]

5 hours ago, BOTT said:

Kinda shows if you ignore defense in the draft you probably won't have a good defense.

 

 

i should proof read more often.

Well that will be on the agenda next offseason.

[oldunclemark]

5 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Here are all the D players drafted.  And it is true, all drafte D players before 2015/2016 are no longer on the roster.  However, there is an UDFA that is... Zack Kerr. 

 

This list is horrid in hindsight-

 

2010

Jerry Hughes - bust, then traded (1)
Pat Angerer - Better than I expected, but still gone
Kevin Thomas - Who?  At least we got Lloyd and Fokou for him
Ricardo Mathews - What else do you want out of 7th rounder? (7)
Kavell Conner - For a 7th rounder, this guy delivered  (7)
Ray Fisher - An Indy 'Homer' pick if I ever saw one.  Fail (7)

The Polian's really did miss on this one, IMHO.

 

2011

Drake Nevis  - A CFL grade DT , nice. Not (3)
Chris Rucker - Who? An unknown and knucklehead?  (6)

2012

Josh Chapman - Filled a need , and a hole.  Not much else.  (5)
Tim Fugger - Wasn't this guy waive/injured before the close of training camp? (7)

 

2013

Bjoern Werner - Jerry Hughes 2. We should just draft a center or something! (1)
Montori Hughes - We traded UP in round 5 for him. Why?  (5)
John Boyett - Ummm, yeah.  Way to shore up that safety spot. Knucklehead :-(  (6)

 

2014

Jonathan Newsome - Potential unrealized,  Puff Puff Puff (5)
Andrew Jackson -   Isn't his picture on a $20 bill U.S. currency? (6)
*Zack Kerr - He is on the roster!!  (UDFA) So, technically not drafted!!

 

2015

D'Joun Smith -  Hey, he's still on the roster, yes? Recovering injury (3)
Henry Anderson - Another one on roster, recovering injury  (3)
Clayton Geathers-  On roster, slated to start!  (4)
David Parry - Nice round 5 choice, and on roster  (5)

 

2016  (New hopefuls)

T.J. Green - The new age safety, once developed  (2)
Hassan Ridgeway - Not an edge guy, but pressure up the middle is good (4)
Trevor Bates - Round 7 guys are so iffy, we'll see.  (7)

Dave Parry and Henry Anderson are quality guys..D Smith and Geathers too..

Quality players we drafted

..and drafting isn't the only way to acquire talent..

Obviously we have had success in free agency.

I would not worry about drafting success independent of free agency...

 

...does it mater how we acquire players if we do acquire them?

[Gavin]

Parry ended up quite bad as the season went on.

[throwing BBZ]

So how did the building the Monster project go from 2012-2014?
IMO opinion, the reason Grigs and Chuckles are still here is because of all the lame Mentoring they got
from Mr.Irsay in times when he was struggling outside of football.
 He contributed to a degree he felt he owed them. lol 
It is his football! Go Colts!

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

22 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

...

I would not worry about drafting success independent of free agency...

 

...does it mater how we acquire players if we do acquire them?

 

To me it does.  I feel teams overpay for free agents.  Value isn't there, and most often they are stopgaps that never integrate fully into the team. Just pluggin a gap until the drafted guy is on the roster and ready. They are poor value.  I feel it is best to draft well, develop them, And sign them when their contract is due. Continuity is important, as is value.

 

[throwing BBZ]

38 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Dave Parry and Henry Anderson are quality guys..D Smith and Geathers too..

Quality players we drafted

..and drafting isn't the only way to acquire talent..

Obviously we have had success in free agency.

I would not worry about drafting success independent of free agency...

 

...does it mater how we acquire players if we do acquire them?

 

 Parry looked as good as he did because of smarts. He knew where to go.
 Unfortunately he lacked power and speed and NO WAY will be a Quality NFL starter at NT on a Good defense,

unless he can stuff the middle. His weakness!   lol
  It would be a good sign if he doesn`t make our 53 man roster. We need bigger, faster, better.
 

[colts8718]

I am still waiting for Pagano's MONSTER D

[NewColtsFan]

9 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Wow? Ignore each other as much as possible? All because we have different opinions about ESPN? You make grudges so easy?

 

 

No,  this is not about over a difference of opinion over whether you don't like ESPN and I do.      I could not care less.

 

But when you start telling me that facts don't interest you,  then what's the point of engaging anyone who has that viewpoint?

 

A hypothetical.      You take Position A and I take Position B and offer all sorts of facts to support my side.    You offer your opinion and say it's just as valid as my facts.     I don't have any interest in that type of discussion and that's pretty much what you floated last night....     

 

If I'm wrong and that's not your position then fine.     But you should re-read what you wrote because that's what it feels like to me.

 

[ColtsFanMikeC]

22 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

ESPN? well lets take a look. I am curious as to how many ESPN employees have season tickets or are catered at Foxborough? It's only 119 mile away with less than a two hour drive. ESPN has had a problem with the Colts since "we" turned in the Patriots for their problems with deflatgate. "We" cast them in a bad light and cost them a lot of money. Not to mentioned put a bad light on their God like Brady. We all know what the problems we have with our owner but see the good with the bad. They don't. They go out of their way to make the Colts and Jim look bad in any way they can. What once was a leader in the sports world has become face time for ESPN announcers. It's who can come up with the new catch phrase on air to them.

 

9 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

ESPN factual statement is not what I was talking about. I was talking about ESPN and my opinion of them in general.

 

 

^ -- I'm not sure why in the world you would bring up the first topic in this thread and follow it up with your second topic.  If you don't like ESPN, that is fine -- but to go off on a rant about them for being anti-Colts when they simply stated facts (like they did in this case) is a bit ridiculous.  I know you like to accuse people for making assumptions, mostly because you're looking to get into an argument for the sake of arguing, but why would you post your first post and assume that readers aren't going to think you're talking about them making a factual statement in this particular thread???

 

 

7 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Here are all the D players drafted.  And it is true, all drafte D players before 2015/2016 are no longer on the roster.  However, there is an UDFA that is... Zack Kerr. 

 

This list is horrid in hindsight-

 

2010

Jerry Hughes - bust, then traded (1)
Pat Angerer - Better than I expected, but still gone
Kevin Thomas - Who?  At least we got Lloyd and Fokou for him
Ricardo Mathews - What else do you want out of 7th rounder? (7)
Kavell Conner - For a 7th rounder, this guy delivered  (7)
Ray Fisher - An Indy 'Homer' pick if I ever saw one.  Fail (7)

The Polian's really did miss on this one, IMHO.

 

2011

Drake Nevis  - A CFL grade DT , nice. Not (3)
Chris Rucker - Who? An unknown and knucklehead?  (6)

2012

Josh Chapman - Filled a need , and a hole.  Not much else.  (5)
Tim Fugger - Wasn't this guy waive/injured before the close of training camp? (7)

 

2013

Bjoern Werner - Jerry Hughes 2. We should just draft a center or something! (1)
Montori Hughes - We traded UP in round 5 for him. Why?  (5)
John Boyett - Ummm, yeah.  Way to shore up that safety spot. Knucklehead :-(  (6)

 

2014

Jonathan Newsome - Potential unrealized,  Puff Puff Puff (5)
Andrew Jackson -   Isn't his picture on a $20 bill U.S. currency? (6)
*Zack Kerr - He is on the roster!!  (UDFA) So, technically not drafted!!

 

2015

D'Joun Smith -  Hey, he's still on the roster, yes? Recovering injury (3)
Henry Anderson - Another one on roster, recovering injury  (3)
Clayton Geathers-  On roster, slated to start!  (4)
David Parry - Nice round 5 choice, and on roster  (5)

 

2016  (New hopefuls)

T.J. Green - The new age safety, once developed  (2)
Hassan Ridgeway - Not an edge guy, but pressure up the middle is good (4)
Trevor Bates - Round 7 guys are so iffy, we'll see.  (7)

 

Thanks for the list -- I think all you're missing is Amarlo Herrera (2015 6th rounder from UGA), who is back on the roster after spending most of last year on the practice squad.  I am not too hopeful about him, but will not be shocked if he cracks our 53 this year.

 

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Parry looked as good as he did because of smarts. He knew where to go.
 Unfortunately he lacked power and speed and NO WAY will be a Quality NFL starter at NT on a Good defense,

unless he can stuff the middle. His weakness!   lol
  It would be a good sign if he doesn`t make our 53 man roster. We need bigger, faster, better.
 

 

I tend to agree with you, although I'm not ready to write Parry off yet.  He played good most of the year -- I think he noticeably declined when Anderson went down.  There are several things, IMO, which could have happened -- 1) moving to a full NFL season could have worn on him around week 11-12 when he is used to getting done with a season, as it does to many other rookies (2) Anderson and he played together for a while at Stanford, he might have been uncomfortable/unfamiliar with those who tried to replace Anderson, (3) You could be right and he just doesn't have the physical traits and was exposed when his best 'side kick' went down.

 

All that said, he was a 'quality' starter for us for most of the year.  He was certainly an improvement to what we've had for the majority of the Grigs/Pags regime.  I agree, we definitely can upgrade at the position (I think with Ridgeway and a healthy Art Jones we can do this), but I do think Parry has shown he can play in this league and I do think he is/can continue to be a good rotational player. 

[ClaytonColt]

When people emphasised how much the o-line had been ignored by the front office prior to this draft this little fact just shows once again that it was the defence and not the o-line which deserved increased focus. 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

No,  this is not about over a difference of opinion over whether you don't like ESPN and I do.      I could not care less.

 

But when you start telling me that facts don't interest you,  then what's the point of engaging anyone who has that viewpoint?

 

A hypothetical.      You take Position A and I take Position B and offer all sorts of facts to support my side.    You offer your opinion and say it's just as valid as my facts.     I don't have any interest in that type of discussion and that's pretty much what you floated last night....     

 

If I'm wrong and that's not your position then fine.     But you should re-read what you wrote because that's what it feels like to me.

 

I thought you wanted the last word? I guess not. Me? You had a problem with my opinion after I voiced it. Then you commence to writing mini novels chastising me. I said lets end it and you take the last word. I guess you just couldn't let it go without running your mouth some more.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

 

^ -- I'm not sure why in the world you would bring up the first topic in this thread and follow it up with your second topic.  If you don't like ESPN, that is fine -- but to go off on a rant about them for being anti-Colts when they simply stated facts (like they did in this case) is a bit ridiculous.  I know you like to accuse people for making assumptions, mostly because you're looking to get into an argument for the sake of arguing, but why would you post your first post and assume that readers aren't going to think you're talking about them making a factual statement in this particular thread.

I explained my point of view and my opinion. I didn't know there were rules put in place to prevent that.  Or does that rule just apply to me?

[oldunclemark]

3 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Parry looked as good as he did because of smarts. He knew where to go.
 Unfortunately he lacked power and speed and NO WAY will be a Quality NFL starter at NT on a Good defense,

unless he can stuff the middle. His weakness!   lol
  It would be a good sign if he doesn`t make our 53 man roster. We need bigger, faster, better.
 

But you're nit picking surely.  To say we have not drafted a starter is not accurate.

I disagree it would be good if he didn't make the roster.

 

I like him..What';s wrong with 'smarts'?

[OLD FAN MAN]

23 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Hard for me to understand that comment because 95% or higher of the NFL players come out of college. With the rookie cap in place teams need college players to fill the rosters. If you traded your picks for proven veterans teams would run out of cap space. Maybe in a special circumstance but not in general.

true they come out of college, but trading picks for proven players eliminates all the college players who never develop, but a cap smart gm is very necessary for this to work, he cant give big contracts to average players and he cant pay big money to superstars. rookies are cheap for a reason, they are unproven and a lot never develop, that is why I don't get too excited about drafted players. not many can come in on day one and start, most are projects and if they finally develop a lot move on for big money

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, GOT AN O-LINE said:

true they come out of college, but trading picks for proven players eliminates all the college players who never develop, but a cap smart gm is very necessary for this to work, he cant give big contracts to average players and he cant pay big money to superstars. rookies are cheap for a reason, they are unproven and a lot never develop, that is why I don't get too excited about drafted players. not many can come in on day one and start, most are projects and if they finally develop a lot move on for big money

Grigson is a very cap smart GM. He managed I think it was 39 million in dead cap space and won GM of the year his rookie year. You make it sound so easy when it is not. Most big name stars require either a #1 pick or multi other round picks. With rookie wage caps that the way it is and that is the way it stays IMO. A GM cant afford not utilizing the rookie wage scale.

[JPFolks]

On 5/21/2016 at 7:10 PM, crazycolt1 said:

ESPN? well lets take a look. I am curious as to how many ESPN employees have season tickets or are catered at Foxborough? It's only 119 mile away with less than a two hour drive. ESPN has had a problem with the Colts since "we" turned in the Patriots for their problems with deflatgate. "We" cast them in a bad light and cost them a lot of money. Not to mentioned put a bad light on their God like Brady. We all know what the problems we have with our owner but see the good with the bad. They don't. They go out of their way to make the Colts and Jim look bad in any way they can. What once was a leader in the sports world has become face time for ESPN announcers. It's who can come up with the new catch phrase on air to them.

It's why all their talent is going elsewhere... that and the very bad business deals they have signed... they are getting HAMMERED on the NBA among other things.  I can't wait for one of the other networks to get their act together and really compete with these guys.  TNT is killing ESPN at basketball and they aren't a sports network per se.  Even Bayless left for a cash grab.  Tirico was their best play by play guy.  Their left wing politics have become THE MOST IMPORTANT thing for them and colors all their commentary on all topics.  

[Coltfreak]

17 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I guess you missed the part where I said facts don't matter to me? 

This is why your opinion is wrong 

[BOTT]

11 hours ago, ztboiler said:

ESPN used an interesting, relevant and accurate fact.  I have no problem with that.  It's a Twitter type of fact - quick hitting shallow insight.

 

It has very little value for analysis unless all the facts around it are included as well.  I'll start with this missing fact...to get 5 empty drafts on D, they went back 7 drafts, 3 of which would cover players that would have to be on 2nd contracts now - that eliminates most players by default, especially late round picks where most of our D players were selected.

The fact that they drafted most of their defensive players late is a problem.  You can't talk about building a monster and then use premium picks on receivers, running backs and pass catching tight ends.

 

doesnt help that the one premium pick on a defense was Werner.

[BOTT]

6 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Well that will be on the agenda next offseason.

I hope so, but seems we have been saying that since Luck was drafted.

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

This is why your opinion is wrong 

I am sorry you missed the concept of the whole statement. Oh, by the way. Were you stalking me when you replied to my comment? Just curious.

[Coltfreak]

7 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am sorry you missed the concept of the whole statement. Oh, by the way. Were you stalking me when you replied to my comment? Just curious.

The concept is pretty easy to understand in every one of your posts.  You ignore facts 

 

that's why you end up arguing with everyone

 

Skip is that you?

[rock8591]

Hindsight is 20/20, but here's how I would have drafted 2012 to present. Then again, if we had different W/L records, we'd have completely different draft orders.

 

Some of this isn't just dreaming, it's drooling. If we had these drafts, we'd probably be in training camp holdout hell and/or salary cap hell right now.

 

2012 - Luck, Kelechi Osemele, TY Hilton, Jaye Howard, Malik Jackson, Alfred Morris, JR Sweezy, Vontaze Burfict

 

2013 - Travis Frederick, Brandon Williams, Quinton Dial, CJ Anderson (rest unimportant), as this was a bad draft overall for everyone.

 

2014 - Assuming no T-Rich trade...Timmy Jernigan, Mewhort, Moncrief, Malcolm Butler

 

2015 - Eddie Goldman, Henry Anderson, Clayton Geathers, ZaDarius Smith, Lael Collins, Thomas Rawls

 

2016 - too early to say.

[crazycolt1]

23 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

The concept is pretty easy to understand in every one of your posts.  You ignore facts 

 

that's why you end up arguing with everyone

 

Skip is that you?

You should write comedy. But that joke is kinda old. Maybe you can come up with something a little more modern. I know you are limited because we cant do anything political so you must work harder.

[Dark Superman]

Still don't know what the Colts saw in Werner. Such a waste of a pick.

[Dark Superman]

Josh Chapman was like a sixth round pick, so I really wouldn't add him in there. Look at the talent we picked up that year before we drafted Josh.

 

I'm going to miss Fleener though.. he was one of my favorite Colts.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I thought you wanted the last word? I guess not. Me? You had a problem with my opinion after I voiced it. Then you commence to writing mini novels chastising me. I said lets end it and you take the last word. I guess you just couldn't let it go without running your mouth some more.

 

You asked for an explanation and I gave it to you.     You didn't like it because you look foolish.    You asked,  I answered.     It's that simple.

 

And that's what this thread has turned into.     You keep posting silly things and I keep pointing it out.

 

You look worse and worse.      So, go on,  keep taking your shots at me.     But the bottom line is this,   I try to offer facts,   and you try to win with opinions.      Facts don't mean much to you,  you said so yourself.

 

If you're comfortable with that,  don't let our disagreement here stop you......

 

 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You asked for an explanation and I gave it to you.     You didn't like it because you look foolish.    You asked,  I answered.     It's that simple.

 

And that's what this thread has turned into.     You keep posting silly things and I keep pointing it out.

 

You look worse and worse.      So, go on,  keep taking your shots at me.     But the bottom line is this,   I try to offer facts,   and you try to win with opinions.      Facts don't mean much to you,  you said so yourself.

 

If you're comfortable with that,  don't let our disagreement here stop you......

 

 

I will voice my opinion regardless of you. The whole forum is full of opinions and you have passed out your fair share. I am not here to abide by your rules or you opinion as to what is said in here. If everyone's opinion and thought process was the same it would be too boring. If you feel the need to argue or chastise my every post feel free because I don't really care one way or another.

[indyagent17]

Talk about a bust, 2013 draft... only Thornton remains from that entire draft class and he may not be here much longer, its amazing how you could miss on an entire draft class

 

Warner

Thornton

Holmes

Hughes 

Boyette

Williams 

Cunningham

 

2012 class has only three players left on the team so 3 out of 10 when you pick in the top 5 of most every round.

 

Sure does not look good for Grigson but we already knew that,