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Colts expected to make run for Saban or Payton


Dustin

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I think Payton would be a disaster.  He's bottom dwelling these days in New Orleans... who else is to blame but him?  

 

Saban would want total control, is too old, is accustomed to playing with superior talent at every single position than teams he plays (even at QB in the SEC horrid QB conference he's at least had game managers).  His lines have essentially been packed with top tier NFL lineman and his defense the same.  Really only at QB has he failed in college to bring in or develop any real talent.  In fact, when you have almost entirely 5 star players, there's not much developing going on either.  It's just a stopping point on the way to the NFL for most of those guys.  I'd prefer a coach who has done more with less... i.e. like the guy in Houston who led Ohio State to a championship and then took a horrid 5 win Houston team to a 1 loss season and a big bowl win.  That TYPE of guy (perhaps not literally him) is more what I would prefer.  Someone who can take lesser talent and use brilliant coaching to win games over superior talent.  Saban would be the opposite of that.  He should NEVER lose a game based on talent advantage, something he'll never have in the NFL aside from Luck.  Otherwise, Hilton is only a top 10 receiver and no one else but Davis is Pro Bowl worthy and this year Davis wasn't top tier at all.  Our Punter (after Luck) is probably our best player compared to his peers but he's already getting old.   

 

But if I HAD to take one or the other, I would take Saban only because Payton would cost us picks and simply is not an improvement over Pagano on any level based on the previous 4 years.  

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In all honesty, we don't need to have an offensive minded coach, especially Payton. We need a defensive minded coach. Yes, that's what Paggs is/was suppose to be, however for some reason it has not worked. Payton, except for Greg Williams has had horrible defensive approaches and WE DON'T NEED/WANT that anymore. With exception of O-line, our offense is talented enough to win games. We need DEFENSE Bad. I'd be in for Saban, as his defenses while at Bama have been lights out and I feel him or his staff he might assemble is exactly what we would need. If not Saban, at least defensive coach

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27 minutes ago, Mr Clueless said:

Interesting....

 

I'm sure it has been discussed before, somewhere buried in the many HC-threads, but why should I/we be high on Saban? I don't know much about him, so it is an honest question....

 

He's been ultra successful at the college ranks. He's the sexy hire because of that. He attributes his NFL failings to not having a good QB while he was in Miami so I'm sure people believe he would have more success this time around having Luck.

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I wouldn't mind throwing Payton in the mix, but if we want a defensive minded coach, I'd be willing to gamble on Pettine if he leaves/gets fired in Cleveland.

Ultimately, I want to see Pags back and Grigs fired with Chud getting a chance to implement his system

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8 minutes ago, IndyD4U said:

I wouldn't mind throwing Payton in the mix, but if we want a defensive minded coach, I'd be willing to gamble on Pettine if he leaves/gets fired in Cleveland.

Ultimately, I want to see Pags back and Grigs fired with Chud getting a chance to implement his system

 

But would you like it if we had to give our first round pick to get Payton?  I sure wouldn't.

 

I also agree 100% with your last sentence, but it's most likely a pipe dream.

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47 minutes ago, Mr Clueless said:

Interesting....

 

I'm sure it has been discussed before, somewhere buried in the many HC-threads, but why should I/we be high on Saban? I don't know much about him, so it is an honest question....

Well he quit on his team after second season just saying 

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45 minutes ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

I like Payton very much as he has a very good offensive mind and comes from the Bill Parcells' coaching tree but he is going to require compensation to sign him...though I would hope Indy looks elsewhere? Not a fan of Saban and really can't put my finger on it?

I'm not sure if I can trust saban he quit on his team and why bring in a run heavy dictator when passing is our best weapon

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6 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

But would you like it if we had to give our first round pick to get Payton?  I sure wouldn't.

 

I also agree 100% with your last sentence, but it's most likely a pipe dream.

 Yeah, I have no interest at all in giving up high picks for Payton

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1 minute ago, jbaron04 said:

I'm not sure if I can trust saban he quit on his team and why bring in a run heavy dictator when passing is our best weapon

Can we stop with the "he quit on his team" crap.  You guys act like he was on the battlefield and went AWOL.  We don't know why he left...and frankly I don't care.

 

i think Saban is smart enough to realize he can't play SEC football in the NFL....especially when you have a QB like Luck.

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1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

I think Payton would be a disaster.  He's bottom dwelling these days in New Orleans... who else is to blame but him?  

 

Saban would want total control, is too old, is accustomed to playing with superior talent at every single position than teams he plays (even at QB in the SEC horrid QB conference he's at least had game managers).  His lines have essentially been packed with top tier NFL lineman and his defense the same.  Really only at QB has he failed in college to bring in or develop any real talent.  In fact, when you have almost entirely 5 star players, there's not much developing going on either.  It's just a stopping point on the way to the NFL for most of those guys.  I'd prefer a coach who has done more with less... i.e. like the guy in Houston who led Ohio State to a championship and then took a horrid 5 win Houston team to a 1 loss season and a big bowl win.  That TYPE of guy (perhaps not literally him) is more what I would prefer.  Someone who can take lesser talent and use brilliant coaching to win games over superior talent.  Saban would be the opposite of that.  He should NEVER lose a game based on talent advantage, something he'll never have in the NFL aside from Luck.  Otherwise, Hilton is only a top 10 receiver and no one else but Davis is Pro Bowl worthy and this year Davis wasn't top tier at all.  Our Punter (after Luck) is probably our best player compared to his peers but he's already getting old.   

 

But if I HAD to take one or the other, I would take Saban only because Payton would cost us picks and simply is not an improvement over Pagano on any level based on the previous 4 years.  

How is it that Payton is solely to blame in New Orleans but management is primarily to blame here?  On what specifics do you differentiate?

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52 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

I'm not sure if I can trust saban he quit on his team and why bring in a run heavy dictator when passing is our best weapon

 

Before Tom Brady, no one thought of Bill Belichick as a pass happy coach.    But that's what he's been for roughly 15 years in New England.

 

Who is one of Nick Saban's closest friends?       Bill Belichick.

 

Saban is smart enough to know he needs a great QB.     That why Luck should be appealing to him.    And he's smart enough to know he's won because he's had a huge talent advantage on the college level, and perhaps he'd like to see if he can win when things are more even.   

 

Can Nick Saban be the difference between winning and losing on the NFL level as Belichick is?

 

Some think he'd like to find out......................

 

I'm fine with asking Saban......     the worst he can say is......      "No thanks"

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Mr Clueless said:

Don't fool yourself, Colts can do worse than Pagano. We can do better, yes, but also worse. 

 

Anyway, I'm off to read a bit up on Saban. 

there are very few coaches that couldnt win with a healthy Luck.  You see what kind of coach he is without Luck.

 

He has NEVER been a good head coach.  Nice guy great story and a friend to the players and an average  coach at best. 

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52 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

How is it that Payton is solely to blame in New Orleans but management is primarily to blame here?  On what specifics do you differentiate?

He's been there for a very long time... he has been the guy with the power whereas Pagano has apparently been a straw man for Grigson... and I didn't say solely... but his record is his record in the end and he has Drew Brees... why would he be better with Luck? He's about the last person I would want of all the names I have heard as possibilities... plus we'd have to trade picks to get him as they're unlikely to just fire him and let him go for free? No thanks! 

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Just for the record Gus Frerotte who was the Dolphins starting QB for 15 games for Miami in 2005 (the first of Sabans 2 years coaching the Dolphins) threw 494 passes...That's 32.9 a game

 

In 2006 the following year Joey Harrington started 11 games for the Dolphins and averaged 35.2 passes per game. Culpepper before him started 4 games before injury and threw for an average 33.5 passes per game.

 

2005 Dolphins 555 pass attempts by QB

2006 Dolphins 590 pass attempts by QB'S

2005 Dolphins rush attempts 444 (375 by running backs)

2006 Dolphins 402 rush attempts (333 by running backs)

 

Total 1991 plays ran (Not including passes by players other then the QB)

 

1145 Passes attempted

846 runs attempted

 

57.5 percent passing plays and that don't include 1 pass by Ronnie Brown in 2006 and 1 pass attempt by Marty Booker in 2005

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/2005.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/2006.htm

 

Actually its very likely given the different schemes that have been ran while Saban has been a coach both at the college level and the NFL level that he is FLEXIBLE...The Dolphins ran a 4-3 when Saban was coach, Bama runs 3-4.....I don't remember what the LSU Tigers ran when he was a coach their and I don't know what he ran at Michigan State before that or Toledo

 

 

 

 

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