Punt play fail (merge)

[dudeski]

You have to ask?

Because Whalen and Anderson were not prepared for the situation they were put in.

Because you had a WR snapping to a safety.

Because they were in an illegal formation if they were to snap the ball at all. Obviously, Whalen thought there were situations in this play to snap the ball even if this wasn't one of them. Had the Pats put only 1 person near the ball, the Colts would have still had an illegal formation if the ball was snapped.

or

We could talk about what actually happened. Which is whalen screwed up

[#12.]

You don't get called for illegal formation if you don't snap the ball.

...and you don't get the first down if it's successful, so what is the point?

[jet1968]

Pagano should be in hot water. After all the confusion on the fake punt play maybe PAGANO should have just called a timeout before the ball was hiked.

[Myles]

anyway you try and defend whalen, he made the mistake of snapping the ball. He was at fault for not knowing the situation

Pagano was at fault for putting in a play that was not ready.    If Whalen snapped the ball by mistake, it only shows that Anderson and Whalen were not prepared.  

So was it Anderson (a safety) who was supposed to count the Pats players to see if the ball needs snapped to catch them with 12 men on the field?    Was it Whalens responsibility to look at the other Colts players and make sure the formation is legal before snapping the ball.  

I agree the ball should not have been snapped, but Pagano himself said that snapping the ball was an option in the correct scenario.    Who had to decide this?   Whalen playing snapper or Anderson playing QB?

[Myles]

The formation was legal, the problem was the colts players to the right were not in the right spot, they were too far off the LOS

Thus illegal and drawing a flag.

[Myles]

or

We could talk about what actually happened. Which is whalen screwed up

.......Pagano screwed up again.

[SilentHill]

Thus illegal and drawing a flag.

 

So it's Pagano's responsibility to run out onto the field and tell the players they are lined up wrong?

[jvan1973]

We dont need to be in the playoff

What a dumb comment. It's week 6.

[dudeski]

If toler snapped the ball, nobody would be defending him. I find it hilarious that anyone is deflecting blame from whalen

[jvan1973]

I just have one question......Why the hell is he not fired yet

Because that would be stupid. It's week 6 and the team has a .500 record

[deedub75]

Getting new coaches won't make a difference if Grigson is still there and holds all the cards.  Most coaches want to shop for the groceries.  

[tikyle]

I wanted Harbaugh when we promised Dungy's friend Jim Caldwell the position. Since He took us to the Superbowl his first year I knew he wasn't leaving. Then San Fransico hires Harbaugh away from Stanford and the Colts tank it with Peyton out. The timing just isn't right for us. From what I hear Harbaugh is better suited to college. Not saying he wouldn't be good in Pros but his personality wears on you after 3 years. The Pros could starting tuning him out but in college players typically turn over every 4 years. This is part of the reason the 49ers tanked it in his fourth season.

I think Harbaugh would try to eat Grigson alive!!  No way Harbaugh would sit back and let Grigson draft WR when his O Line is in shambles.  If you want an offensive guy I'd take Shaw who's at Stanford now or beg Arians to come back home to a (healthier) QB he loves!!  Or why not try the Patriots D coordinator.  He's a young talented coach, let's see if he's part of their success and not all Bill.  I used to swear by Pagano but at this point I can't anymore.  That game last night showed that talent wise we are on the same level as NE.  No excuse to lose 5 straight to them.

[RockThatBlue]

Pagano should be in hot water. After all the confusion on the fake punt play maybe PAGANO should have just called a timeout before the ball was hiked.

Yup. Surely Pagano saw that nobody was lined up right. Certainly strange that no time out was called.

[Gavin]

Pagano should be in hot water. After all the confusion on the fake punt play maybe PAGANO should have just called a timeout before the ball was hiked.

No need do that when you don't expect the ball to be hiked

[Superman]

OK post Manning/ Dungy at our best......But definitely a hungry football team. Right now we are missing a spark that comes from the leadership. We need line help for sure, but there is enough talent and the roster for to be better then we are this season. Hopefully we get a spark of some kind. 

 

No. The team was better in 2013 and 2014, and while the start has been rocky this year, I still believe this is a better team and would walk all up and down the 2012 team. That team had no OL, no run defense, and it's only real saving grace is that we were great on third and long. 

[Myles]

So it's Pagano's responsibility to run out onto the field and tell the players they are lined up wrong?

It's Pagano's responsibility to run a play that the team understands.   On this one, the guys were lined up wrong and the ball was snapped when it shouldn't have been.

It was a stupid decision to use the play when down by 6 on your own 37 yard line.   The team obviously did not understand how to do it.   Not just Whalen.   Yes, it is on Pagano.

[Superman]

You have to ask?

Because Whalen and Anderson were not prepared for the situation they were put in.

Because you had a WR snapping to a safety.

Because they were in an illegal formation if they were to snap the ball at all.   Obviously, Whalen thought there were situations in this play to snap the ball even if this wasn't one of them.   Had the Pats put only 1 person near the ball, the Colts would have still had an illegal formation if the ball was snapped.    

 

Anderson was ready. Whalen wasn't.

 

A WR snapping to a safety isn't the problem. It's not even part of the problem.

 

I don't believe they were in an illegal formation, but even if they were, it's a simple issue of having five guys on the line. That's a technical error, not a design error.

 

I said earlier, this isn't my favorite play by any means. But it's not something unprecedented. Everyone is acting like this is some drunken idea by some numbskull who can't tell his butt from a hole in the ground, and in reality it's just a poorly executed trick play that's been done hundreds of times before. Just google 'swinging gate fake', skip all the Colts mocking stuff, and you'll see a ton of videos of this play or variations of it. 

[TKnight24]

Amen

Fire Them

[RockThatBlue]

IMO, we don't know if it was a terrible call since it wasn't executed properly. The execution was horrible however and I suppose you could blame the coaching staff for not having the players properly prepared to execute it properly. But I wouldn't call it a bad "call."

If you really want to blame someone, it has to be Whalen. Just a brain lock.

I blame the coaches more than Whalen. They never should have even attempted that clown show of a play call. I hope I never see anything like that ever again.

[Superman]

On the right side they were too far off  the LOS, that was the penalty.

 

I don't think they were, but maybe I didn't understand where the LOS was. 

[Superman]

Still would have been a Colts penalty.

 

 

...and you don't get the first down if it's successful, so what is the point?

 

Again, a technical issue, not a design issue.

[colts8718]

I haven't read all the posts but has anyone on the Colts accepted responsibility for the play?  Either its calling or execution?

Grigson thinks Trent Richardson might have something to do with it

[austriancolt]

It's easy to blame everything on Pagano but if the Colts are serious with making the next step they need to clean the house and that starts with the General Manager. I don't get it why Grigson is out of the question

[csmopar]

a parent gives his child a firearm and tells his child only use this to protect your life. the child shoots and kills his friend. whos fault is it?

As a gun owner and a parent....it's the parents fault

[csmopar]

anyway you try and defend whalen, he made the mistake of snapping the ball. He was at fault for not knowing the situation

Are you blind, can't read or just plain ignoring me when I've said Whalen shares fault in this as well? Ive said it multiple times. But the fault to me is on him AND the coaches. Geez Im simply saying that the majority of the fault falls on Pagano.

[Swan Ronson]

a parent gives his child a firearm and tells his child only use this to protect your life. the child shoots and kills his friend. whos fault is it?

The friend for not being armed as well, apparently.

[Myles]

Anderson was ready. Whalen wasn't.

 

A WR snapping to a safety isn't the problem. It's not even part of the problem.

 

I don't believe they were in an illegal formation, but even if they were, it's a simple issue of having five guys on the line. That's a technical error, not a design error.

 

I said earlier, this isn't my favorite play by any means. But it's not something unprecedented. Everyone is acting like this is some drunken idea by some numbskull who can't tell his butt from a hole in the ground, and in reality it's just a poorly executed trick play that's been done hundreds of times before. Just google 'swinging gate fake', skip all the Colts mocking stuff, and you'll see a ton of videos of this play or variations of it. 

I understand where you are coming from. 

I just see it different.   This was obviously not a play ready for game action.   The ball being snapped, the illegal formation or the person responsible for deciding whether to snap the ball or not.   The special teams folks out there for this play obviously did not understand it.  

Pagano should not run a play in that situation when HIS team doesn't understand it.

[csmopar]

I know you know what encroachment is. You mentioned it in a previous post.

And the concept is actually designed to get a favorable alignment to go for the first down, not to draw them offsides.

Granted but if you're gonna do it, you don't do it with a WR or A safety. At least do it with someone who knows and has experience snapping the ball in loud in game situations. And you don't have Colt under whalens butt either. You put him a couple yards back.

[RockThatBlue]

Blame goes to whalen. All the blame.

No it doesn't.

[csmopar]

It's easy to blame everything on Pagano but if the Colts are serious with making the next step they need to clean the house and that starts with the General Manager. I don't get it why Grigson is out of the question

Other than his failure to fix the OL, I don't see any reason too really. No GM hits on every single draft pick. Not even Hoodie.

Don't get me wrong, I think Grigson has made some very bone headed choices, but it wasn't him who went away from the game plan that was working fine for 30 minutes

[Dudley Smith]

griff whalens

 

This has made me "lol" a couple of times now. Thank you.

[Superman]

I understand where you are coming from. 

I just see it different.   This was obviously not a play ready for game action.   The ball being snapped, the illegal formation or the person responsible for deciding whether to snap the ball or not.   The special teams folks out there for this play obviously did not understand it.  

Pagano should not run a play in that situation when HIS team doesn't understand it.

 

Truth be told, that's McMahon's job, not Pagano's. But obviously, when you mess up a play as badly as we did, the preparation isn't up to snuff, and that's a coaching issue, which ultimately goes back to Pagano. My contention is with the idea that this play shouldn't even exist. I don't really like the concept because it's a little too hokey for me, but it's a proven concept that has been done before. 

 

As for McMahon, he's had the STs do a lot of things the past two years, and most of them have worked, or had a great chance to work. Last night is the first surprise onside kick that we didn't recover (and we did recover it, truth be told). So even though this was a major blunder, I still really like McMahon.

[PeterBowman]

Other than his failure to fix the OL, I don't see any reason too really. No GM hits on every single draft pick. Not even Hoodie.

Don't get me wrong, I think Grigson has made some very bone headed choices, but it wasn't him who went away from the game plan that was working fine for 30 minutes

the O line the last 3 weeks has done very well when executing the game plan and playing to their strengths.

 

if they can stay healthy, they could be very solid this year.

 

but I really think the refs are looking to call holding against them, whether it's legit or not.

[RockThatBlue]

So it's Pagano's responsibility to run out onto the field and tell the players they are lined up wrong?

Its Paganos responsibility to not call a stupid play isn't it? Griff Whalen isn't the one who drew that play up and then called it.

Pagano could have at least called a timeout to prevent that train wreck from happening.

[Superman]

Granted but if you're gonna do it, you don't do it with a WR or A safety. At least do it with someone who knows and has experience snapping the ball in loud in game situations. And you don't have Colt under whalens butt either. You put him a couple yards back.

 

It doesn't matter who is in the battery. Whalen knows how to snap, and Anderson knows how to throw. 

 

Ideally, the 'QB' is lined up a couple yards back. But I think Anderson knew right away that the play wasn't supposed to be run, so it doesn't matter where he lined up. I even wonder if the idea was to motion a guy in to the split or call a different shift, depending on the numbers. I'm not sure we even saw the actual formation. It was clearly supposed to be an aborted play.

[Superman]

Its Paganos responsibility to not call a stupid play isn't it? Griff Whalen isn't the one who drew that play up and then called it.

 

Neither is Pagano.

[RockThatBlue]

Neither is Pagano.

Tell Pagano that. He took full blame for it.

[Myles]

Are you blind, can't read or just plain ignoring me when I've said Whalen shares fault in this as well? Ive said it multiple times. But the fault to me is on him AND the coaches. Geez Im simply saying that the majority of the fault falls on Pagano.

Whalen certainly gets some, but not much in my eyes.   Was he the one who was supposed to look for 12 Pats on the field or was that the safety...err QB.  

[dudeski]

Are you blind, can't read or just plain ignoring me when I've said Whalen shares fault in this as well? Ive said it multiple times. But the fault to me is on him AND the coaches. Geez Im simply saying that the majority of the fault falls on Pagano.

pagano didn't snap the ball.

[mrfuddubby]

Pagano is a good guy but it's time to go. I'm tired of the Colts being the butt of all jokes and I'm tired of getting embarrassed by the Patriots! Tired of SC and it's writers disrespecting the team. I'm tired of this nice guy image. He says that he's building a beast? Beast protect they're space, Beast go for the kill at the sight of blood! Chuck it's time to go, Indy needs a new culture! A culture of toughness! #nomoremrniceguy