Punt play fail (merge)

[Superman]

Tell Pagano that. He took full blame for it.

 

You don't really think Pagano drew the play up or called it, so what difference does this make?

[BrentMc11]

Griff Whalen.

Still a better center than Samson Satele.

Funny.  I honestly think it looked like a receiver who has never snapped in his entire life and should never snap it again.  

 

I may have missed it in here, but this play was designed for catching NE with too many players on the field.  Bottom line:  Griff snapped it....Momentum....GONE.  

[GwinnettColt]

If I were to hand pick a coach it would be Harbaugh but he isn't leaving Michigan after 

one year. Team toughness would never be in question with him patrolling the sideline.

 

I like his toughness but I could do without the temper tantrums. 

[F.T. Walton]

Neither is Pagano.

You don't hold the head coach responsible for this?  Do you think he didn't know about this stupid play? 

 

Pagano was trying to out-Belichick Bill Belichick. His pea brain was not up to the task.

[bababooey]

He's gone in the offseason. We need a major overall of the coaching staff, we need a fresh start. 

 

The question is, who is willing enough to take the job ?

 

Last time I checked we were not Oakland or Jacksonville. We have a personnel group that is not reaching their potential due to coaching. I think some coach's are licking at their chops to come coach here.

[Myles]

Neither is Pagano.

I disagree.   Pagano may not have drawn this up, but he certainly called it.    No way this was done without running it by the Head coach.   If so then he's lost more control of this team than I thought.

[F.T. Walton]

Ultimately, the blame for this kind of debacle is at the top. Whether that's Irsay, Grigson or Pagano isn't really important.  A play like that must have been inspired by a bowl of opium treated hash in a h*o*o*k*a*h pipe. 

[bababooey]

yep....this team is VERY close over all and a young franchise to boot....all that's needed is a little tweeking....but I'm not giving up on this regime yet....gotta wait to see how the season plays out.

young franchise? we are the oldest team in the league. i know AV and Hasselbeck throw it off but we are not as young as you think, especially with our 2012 core draft class eligible for FA in march

[Myles]

Tell Pagano that. He took full blame for it.

He's the head coach, taking the blame is the correct move.   I applaud him for it.

[cbear]

I think I'll give Whalen a break here.  This is what could have happened.

 

In his position as center, he certainly can't see the entire field.  In his mind, the play was designed to have NE jump off sides or have too many men on the field.  In either case, he would have to snap the ball to draw the penalty.  Since he couldn't tell, he has to rely on Colt signaling him.  The fact that he didn't even try to block indicates he was trying to draw the penalty.  

 

Anyway, I'm not so mad at him now!

 

 

[RockThatBlue]

You don't really think Pagano drew the play up or called it, so what difference does this make?

No. I said I don't think Griff Whalen drew it up or called it. And obviously he didn't, he's a player and he can't do that.

[RockThatBlue]

He's the head coach, taking the blame is the correct move. I applaud him for it.

Yup. I didn't expect him to throw anybody under the bus, but he was correct to blame himself. It was apparently his call.

[bababooey]

It's called romanticizing the past. Arians did a good job for us, and he's done a very good job in Arizona, but we were in no way 'at our best' when he was running the show. 

Agreed. Still think back the fondness of taking out SF, SEA, and DEN in year 2 of this regime. That was when we were our best. We lost our footing after Reggie went down (among others) and lost to some not great at the time teams. Last year was just a complete reversal of beating everyone we were supposed to and getting smacked by the elite teams.

[Myles]

Ultimately, the blame for this kind of debacle is at the top. Whether that's Irsay, Grigson or Pagano isn't really important.  A play like that must have been inspired by a bowl of opium treated hash in a h*o*o*k*a*h pipe. 

So you blame Irsay?

[F.T. Walton]

So you blame Irsay?

 

Well, he should have fired Pagano after that stupid play.  Maybe he thinks it was a fine attempt?

[Myles]

Well, he should have fired Pagano after that stupid play.  Maybe he thinks it was a fine attempt?

I was actually just wise-cracking to your opium laced hash comment.   I figured Irsay would be the odds on favorite to have the stuff.

[F.T. Walton]

I was actually just wise-cracking to your opium laced hash comment.   I figured Irsay would be the odds on favorite to have the stuff.

Better watch that.  We're not supposed to make sport of Jim's drug and alcohol problem.  Where would he get stuff like that anyway?

[Myles]

I still want to know who was in charge of checking for 12 men on the field or to see if the Pats were in a formation that can be exploited.

I have to assume Colt was.  

Then I have to wonder what the "abort" signal was.    Was it really yelling "Don't snap the ball"?   That seems unlikely.   I would think it would be a code word or tap of some sort.   

 

This play was not ready for a game situation.   That was obvious.   It doesn't seem that any involved knew how to do it.

[F.T. Walton]

Why? Do you know what the play was designed to do?

Please explain what it was supposed to do, and if you could also please defend the stupidity of trying such a play against the best prepared team in the NFL.

[Superman]

You don't hold the head coach responsible for this? Do you think he didn't know about this stupid play?

Pagano was trying to out-Belichick Bill Belichick. His pea brain was not up to the task.

Like I said, ultimately it goes to Pagano. But he didn't draw the play up. And I assume the call is made by the STs coach, not Pagano.

[jaybird95]

This myth of a Patriots team that never makes mistakes is very overblown. They commit penalties just like everyone else.

 

But at the end of the day, either you get a favorable alignment, or you don't snap the ball and take the delay of game. This is hardly unprecedented as far as a trick play goes. The problem is that the ball should not have been snapped, bottom line. Maybe they jump, maybe they don't, but that's just a last ditch effort assuming you don't get a favorable alignment. Reportedly, Colt Anderson was screaming 'don't snap the ball,' and Whalen snapped it anyway. Just a major screw-up. 

 

So are you excusing Pagano and the special team's coach?

[jaybird95]

Good.

[PeterBowman]

young franchise? we are the oldest team in the league. i know AV and Hasselbeck throw it off but we are not as young as you think, especially with our 2012 core draft class eligible for FA in march

the core is still young.

Luck

AC

TY

Mewhort

Holmes

Thornton

Moncrief

Dorsett

Parry

Geathers

Anderson

Vontae

 

AV, MH, Gore and Andre Johson really skew those numbers.

[F.T. Walton]

I don't know why you're missing the very simple fact that the play design wasn't intended to draw them offsides. The play design was intended to create an alignment advantage so that they could get the first down. And again, this isn't something that's new. It's a swinging gate fake, and it's been done thousands of times before.

 

Trying to get them to jump was just Plan B. In other words, 'if we don't get the alignment we need, then see if they'll jump offsides, but DON'T SNAP THE BALL.' I can't imagine any coaching staff not including that last part, and I'm pretty sure that Whalen just had a brain fart.

 

It's not my favorite play in the world, but it's not what you're making it out to be.

If the players lined up in an illegal formation, then the play was not well coached. It was a stupid play, not only because the team was ill prepared.

[Superman]

So are you excusing Pagano and the special team's coach?

No.

[F.T. Walton]

Been listening to the Dakich show, Bob Kravitz was just on and confirmed this, he talked to Irsay at 3am after the game........and Irsay said pretty much said this. Said that this game was the measuring stick for the future.  At least according to Bob........

I'm surprised that Irsay was coherent at 3 AM.

[bababooey]

the core is still young.

Luck

AC

TY

Mewhort

Holmes

Thornton

Moncrief

Dorsett

Parry

Geathers

Anderson

Vontae

 

AV, MH, Gore and Andre Johson really skew those numbers.

In addition to those guys, Mathis, Adams, Bradshaw, Cole, Dqwell, Walden, Toler, Herremans are no spring chickens, and Vontae in his 7th season which is not exactly young in the NFL.

[Jay Roland]

They should have just used Luck to try to draw them offsides then if not take a delay penalty and punt it. d was stopping them at this point. I disagree about the onside kick. I thought that was a good move and we should have had the ball on that one the ref and replay officials got that totally wrong.

[Myles]

Like I said, ultimately it goes to Pagano. But he didn't draw the play up. And I assume the call is made by the STs coach, not Pagano.

 

Maybe I am naive, but I assume that Pagano would be aware of any play like this at this point of a game of this magnitude.  

[deedub75]

Is Chuck delirious?  Just saw his interview and he says he doesn't regret the call.  He should regret it like grim death.  

 

Not only did the play not work, it devastated 2 players involved.  

[bluxco]

Whata bunch of clowns---from LUCK to PAGANO to cerebral STANFORDS GRIFF WHALEN

[benbos]

Some reports coming out in the last hour or so that the Patriots practiced for this very play last week in case the Colts ran it.  Bellichick was just on weei for his weekly interview and he implied that the Colts didn't do anything that they had not practiced for last week.  When asked about the fake punt he reiterated "nothing they had not practiced for". Another report from 98.5 SportsHUB in Boston is saying a Patriots player today said Reggie Wayne may have tipped the Patriots off in training camp about this play.  He said the Colts have been  working on this play since last year and during camp this year Wayne was in camp they had him doing some drills with the special teams and he told them the Colts had a version of a "Swinging Gate" punt play.  I'm sure more links will be available tonight about these reports. 

[theanarchist]

Michael Silver of NFL.com wrote about the same kind of rumor. I hate to agree but it's likely true. Pagano and this coaching staff have had ample opportunities to solve the New England riddle and haven't got the job done. If this team somehow doesn't make the post-season or gets bounced out early in the playoffs, I expect the Colts to do a nice house cleaning of the coaching staff.

The bad thing is that if we don't pull that bonehead play we have a very good chance to win the game. As you say, solving the riddle. I think the team played admirably well but you can't put your defense in a hole like that against a Brady run offense. I see there is a quote from Grigson saying this was a play that "was not practiced enough during the week." Pretty much a shot at Pagano. Nice that they are both taking shots at each other in the media. Unfortunately for Chuck, we didn't need to pull this kind of a play at the time we did besides, A BB coached team rarely falls for a gimmick play. Poorly conceived. Poor timing, poor execution.

[Superman]

Maybe I am naive, but I assume that Pagano would be aware of any play like this at this point of a game of this magnitude.  

 

My understanding is that they go over situations all week, and then when the situation presents itself, the ST coach can make the call. Other situations that show up on the field can be up to McAfee, like an onside or a fake punt/FG, depending on an alignment from the other team. That's how they explained the fake punt in the Cowboys game.

 

Pagano certainly didn't look like he was unaware of the call on the sideline, or else he would have called a timeout. Accountability goes to the top, so I get that. 

 

But let's not blow this out of proportion, is all I'm saying. Whalen should not have snapped the ball, is what it comes down to. I feel like the 10 other players on the field knew that, and the coaches knew it also. Colt Anderson obviously wasn't expecting him to snap the ball. 

[wig]

It's called romanticizing the past. Arians did a good job for us, and he's done a very good job in Arizona, but we were in no way 'at our best' when he was running the show. 

 

Very true - but that was Luck's rookie year and the team around him was absolutely terrible.  Winning 11 games that year is nuts.  

[superrep1967]

If I were to hand pick a coach it would be Harbaugh but he isn't leaving Michigan after

one year. Team toughness would never be in question with him patrolling the sideline.

Yes exactly he would be the coach that would give us multiple superbowls

[Myles]

My understanding is that they go over situations all week, and then when the situation presents itself, the ST coach can make the call. Other situations that show up on the field can be up to McAfee, like an onside or a fake punt/FG, depending on an alignment from the other team. That's how they explained the fake punt in the Cowboys game.

 

Pagano certainly didn't look like he was unaware of the call on the sideline, or else he would have called a timeout. Accountability goes to the top, so I get that. 

 

But let's not blow this out of proportion, is all I'm saying. Whalen should not have snapped the ball, is what it comes down to. I feel like the 10 other players on the field knew that, and the coaches knew it also. Colt Anderson obviously wasn't expecting him to snap the ball. 

Yep.   That brings me back to my questions:

 

I still want to know who was in charge of checking for 12 men on the field or to see if the Pats were in a formation that can be exploited.

I have to assume Colt was.  

Then I have to wonder what the "abort" signal was.    Was it really yelling "Don't snap the ball"?   That seems unlikely.   I would think it would be a code word or tap of some sort.  

[wig]

Oh, and Pagano needs to go.  I was embarrassed as a fan last night.  Sean Payton seems like a good fit.

[F.T. Walton]

My understanding is that they go over situations all week, and then when the situation presents itself, the ST coach can make the call. Other situations that show up on the field can be up to McAfee, like an onside or a fake punt/FG, depending on an alignment from the other team. That's how they explained the fake punt in the Cowboys game.

 

Pagano certainly didn't look like he was unaware of the call on the sideline, or else he would have called a timeout. Accountability goes to the top, so I get that. 

 

But let's not blow this out of proportion, is all I'm saying. Whalen should not have snapped the ball, is what it comes down to. I feel like the 10 other players on the field knew that, and the coaches knew it also. Colt Anderson obviously wasn't expecting him to snap the ball. 

If you have authority, and you choose to delegate this authority, you are responsible. Pagano is an *.

[MTC]

Pagano and Manusky need to go. Let Pep Hamilton run this team.