NFL/Patriots Deflategate compromise UPDATE: Pats will not appeal

[ColtsBlueFL]

What a normal intelligent human being would assume is that Grigson did not make this up and did not make that statement without basis to make it. Notice how they shy away from addressing things like that letter.teer they have

 

Acyually, Grigson didn't write it, Sean Sullivan the Colts Equipment manager did.  Grigs knows and trusts him enough to have included it with his, and-

 

A. know by feel if a ball is low (which the Pats balls were supposedly both games)

B. trust his contacts with other equipment managers around the league; and the chatter they have

 

Another item I found interesting, Sullivan inspects every interception a Colts players gets before placing it in a safe spot for the player to take home later.  Why? One big reason is he checks the 'prep' on opponents game balls.  He wants to be sure nobody else is doing a 'better' job.  So, yes, Sean would be as knowledgeable about game balls as any QB.

[OffensivelyPC]

 

• succinct - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

  www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/succinct

  •  

  Succinct, meaning "short and to the point," is from the Latin succingere, "to tuck up." Often after you write a long essay, you realize you probably could have said  ...

   
•  

 

lol I meant Superman's 2 paragraph and 1 sentence post, not the one that has could have several chapters.

[Superman]

• succinct - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

  www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/succinct

Succinct, meaning "short and to the point," is from the Latin succingere, "to tuck up." Often after you write a long essay, you realize you probably could have said ...

Yeah I was gonna say, my posts above were unfortunately not succinct....

[Yehoodi]

I remember my son being arrested for a bar room fight at a college bar. The state troopers walked in just as he was throwing a harmless punch at a guy that started a fight with him. They roughed him up good and he was tossed in jail. I was furious after driving down and forking over 3K cash to bail him out. Thought about suing the troopers but never did. 

 

About two years later , I thought about this and asked my son if that's really what happened. He broke out laughing and said he couldn't believe I bought that story. The kid was afraid of the consequences and decided to lie to me. We have always beed best friends and he had zero reason to not tell me what really happened.

 

That said , do you think maybe Kraft is realizing that maybe Brady told him a little white one ? 

 

That is a possibility that Kraft is finding out more things than what was apparent in Jan. 2015.    So maybe you are correct.

 

I think at the same time with his time with the other owners and some time to get over the shock the fine, Kraft may of had a change of heart.  He likely would not get the support of others owners.  Also, some, likely the NO Saints owner, may have told him we all have to deal with this and fines that we may not like, and we have to play along.

 

With that said though, and stepping back and trying to be as impartial as possible, I still find it tough to accept that we have received two of the most stiffest in NFL history.  Indeed, since 1980 only two fines have been handed down which included a 1st round draft pick taken, which in effect is a 4 year suspension for a 1st round player, meaning the team has lost a player that would of been on a 4 year rookie deal.  both of those fines have been levied against the patriots.  Most persons would agree that a 1st rounder is more often than not a starter.  So basically taking a 1st round draft pick is a 4 year suspension of a starter.

 

I am a strong believer of one of the principals in our US Constitution of no Ex Post Facto laws, laws which retroactivity make an action more penal then when the action occurred, there are illegal.  (that is if 1st offense OUI is 6 months probation and you get arrested for drinking and driving on Jan 15, the before trial on May 1 a new law in your state comes out and makes 1st offense OUI 10 years, the law can not be used against you retroactivity).   When we view things we must really view them with a neutral eye, after all Lady Justice is blind, and frankly look at them as we might at the time they occurred, meaning if I asked you on Jan 1st what your opinion a good penalty would be for someone tampering with the inflation of balls what would you assigned to it.  

 

When we look at how the NFL reacted in the Viking/Carolina game, the fact that 16 homes game with crowd noise is just a 5th rounder, and so on.  When we try to figure how heinous and how serious inflation is to the NFL and we see two gauges that are off by 0.40 or 40% of the range, balls that are test and do not record the same measurement,  the fact that there is silence regarding any under inflation in the past, what exactly is the seriousness of the inflation football circa January 1, 2015 and not May 1, 2015?  And what is an appropriate penalty for a violation.   That is where I have my problem. 

 

And even regarding the "independent" Wells Reports, one which made Walt Anderson the second coming of Jesus Christ in credibility some how in its "independence"-Lady Justice is blind-we don't care about the end results, found the one thing not credible in its report was Walt's recollection of which gauge he used, for it that were to be credible 8 of 11 Pat balls on one gauge at half time would fall within the prescribed drop due to temperature only.  I just find that "independent" finding . . . well . . . interesting.  

 

So yes given the mindset and tenor of what a penalty is for the crime charge on Jan 2015 should of been, I find the fine imposed to be very harsh.     

[dynasty13]

What a normal intelligent human being would assume is that Grigson did not make this up and did not make that statement without basis to make it. Notice how they shy away from addressing things like that letter.

I'm sure he didn't make it up...but clearly nobody cared or thought it mattered enough to raise a stink.

Let's say I'm the Cleveland Browns and by golly my biggest rival is the big bad Pittsburgh Steelers. The entire league knows they have some guys that have been taking steroids...boy do they hit hard!!! But I guess a lot of teams have guys that take PED's...who cares it happens that's just our business. Now we've been pretty crappy for a few years and darn it we finally made it to the AFC Championship Game!!! WHOOO! And guess who we have to play? We have to play the Steelers, who have been kicking our butts bad...like reeeeal bad...consistently too...really though, it's been bad. I'm gonna just write a letter to the NFL here we go..."It's well known that the Steelers take PEDs. Oh...but they're pretty slick about it...it would be great if you could test them throughout the game. Thanks, kisses."

So the game was close for the first half and luckily all of the Steelers we know that take steroids got injured and couldn't play the 2nd half. Every single one.

Wait...we still lost 100 to 0?

Hmmmm...Well at least we can hang an AFC Finalist banner!

[OffensivelyPC]

Yeah I was gonna say, my posts above were unfortunately not succinct....

Chapters...

[Superman]

Chapters...

Yeah, well... it was still good stuff...

[OffensivelyPC]

Let's say I'm the Cleveland Browns and by golly my biggest rival is the big bad Pittsburgh Steelers. The entire league knows they have some guys that have been taking steroids...boy do they hit hard!!! But I guess a lot of teams have guys that take PED's...who cares it happens that's just our business. Now we've been pretty crappy for a few years and darn it we finally made it to the AFC Championship Game!!! WHOOO! And guess who we have to play? We have to play the Steelers, who have been kicking our butts bad...like reeeeal bad...consistently too...really though, it's been bad. I'm gonna just write a letter to the NFL here we go..."It's well known that the Steelers take PEDs. Oh...but they're pretty slick about it...it would be great if you could test them throughout the game. Thanks, kisses."

So the game was close for the first half and luckily all of the Steelers we know that take steroids got injured and couldn't play the 2nd half. Every single one.

Wait...we still lost 100 to 0?

Hmmmm...Well at least we can hang an AFC Finalist banner!

Look, I'm trying to be as respectful as I can, but this post should be taken out back and shot.

[OffensivelyPC]

Yeah, well... it was still good stuff...

No doubt.  Just pokin some fun.

[braveheartcolt]

This stuff is getting old pretty quick now. Basically, the Patriots tried to get a small competetive advantage via illegal means. They got caught red handed. Own up and we are talking about the draft, the schedule, the FA's, coaching and QB power ramkings. But no.

Roll on Training Camp.

[Hoosier]

There really is no sense talking to you. I never said there was absolutely no chance that Brady knew nothing. What I believe is that the evidence points to the opposite . The problem is you are the one that is being ridiculous... see below. 

 

"Brady's involvement? Literally nothing that even hints that he knew and the suspension was ridiculous."

 

 

I really don't understand why some continue to engage in some of the asinine arguments.

We had one Pats fan who was just sure that Kraft was going to slash and burn this league and then salt the Earth like Sherman marching to the sea.

That's been replaced by one who is absolutely indignant about the fact that Colts fans would dare to have any kind of biased opinion about their team's biggest nemesis, and worst of all that they would express it on a Colts forum.  Only to turn around and make a completely smart-* post about how badly the Patriots have beaten the Colts over the years.  

<Insert obligatory comment about how some Patriots fans have been reasonable about all of it>

Why they feel the need to go to every length possible to convince a bunch of Colts fans of their team's innocence is beyond me.

[Yehoodi]

Posted Today, 06:36 PM

Yehoodi, on 19 May 2015 - 6:50 PM, said:

 

 

To be fair, you have to understand that not everything 'known' in the league has leaked for public consumption. To wit:  Grigson include with his letter to the NFL prior to the AFCCG, a letter from Colts Equipment Manager Sean Sullivan.  Here is an excerpt from that note-

 

"As far as the gameballs are concerned it is well known around the league that after the Patriots gameballs are checked by the officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the patriots will let out some air with a ball needle because their quarterback likes a smaller football so he can grip it better, it would be great if someone would be able to check the air in the game balls as the game goes on so that they don't get an illegal advantage."

 

So they 'knew' they were soft, and it was done after the Ref had checked and marked them.  What they didn't know was how, exactly. And he implies (all?) other teams around the league know this, too.

 

Also known is so many teams complain to the league about so many ways they feel their opponent is cheating, that it sounds like buzzing bees in the ears of League front office. I'm sure that is why the fairly cavalier attitude to Grigson letter.

 

I discount non QB's noticing differences.  They aren't concerned thus attention is not on that. QB's are very conscious of feel.  If it feels right, all of their attention is diverted to the task at hand.  If it doesn't 'feel' right some of that focus is not on the D, receivers and progressions, but a sliver on why the ball doesn't feel like the ones they 'turned in' to the Refs pre-game.

 

I hear you but my point on the matter is not something that came up in January, I point I made in an earlier post.  I really do not care about what was said in January or complained about.  Find me complaints made by the teams anytime between 2006 and the end of the regular season 2014.  Well more specifically find me complaints by folks prior to Brady's "you gotta know the rules" comments.

 

See the bottom line still remains it is how serious is this issue, if it was as serious as some make out then surely there would of been complaints at sometime.  Right?  If this was such a serious violation of the rules and determent to the opponents then surely someone would of brought this to the leagues attention no too soon after the first occurrences.   Are you seriously going to take a position that teams are going to allow the pats, of all teams, to continue to operate an activity which gives them a competitive advantage and one so significant it carries the biggest fine in NFL history?  You really think our enemies are going to sit back and keep quiet. really? 

 

Indeed, there were rumblings about headsets, cameras/bugs in locker room, "they know our calls" and so on about the pats and we have heard them throughout the last decade. So clearly opponents understand what things might gain an unfair advantage and they have no problem speaking out.  But yet they are silent about action X.  What does that tell you the opponents feel about action X when they are silent yet have no hesitation about being out spoken about other things that can gain an competitive advantage.

 

Look bottom line in all of this a complaint should of been filed, once the first complaint was filed, in this case your GM's letter, the league then calls the pats, tells them about the complaint, tells them we are not sure if it is true or not, but if we find you down the road violation this action we are going to have to call you out in it, they then log the call, followed by an email and letter to, its kept in the file and if subsequent to that if the pats get frisky and violate it again, then the league can take appropriate action. period. 

 

Sorry but I am not buying someone sudden concern about a rule that no one care about for years but somehow they found revisionist history days after Brady's "you gotta know the rules" comments.

 

I am not defending the violation, just stating that this was not a big deal prior to his comments.  And with that said when we try to grasp and garner a penalty for the violation we must necessity look to how serious folks took this problem 5 minutes before the game between the Pats and the Ravens in January.   that is my point.        

 

[dw49]

Look, I'm trying to be as respectful as I can, but this post should be taken out back and shot.

 

 

I said I was more or less done with him in another post and I will stick to that. We are just too far apart on this. I can't deal with someone that claims there isn't s shred of evidence that points to Brady being involved. Thanks for addressing that post for me.

 

I really don't understand why some continue to engage in some of the asinine arguments.

We had one Pats fan who was just sure that Kraft was going to slash and burn this league and then salt the Earth like Sherman marching to the sea.

That's been replaced by one who is absolutely indignant about the fact that Colts fans would dare to have any kind of biased opinion about their team's biggest nemesis, and worst of all that they would express it on a Colts forum.  Only to turn around and make a completely smart-* post about how badly the Patriots have beaten the Colts over the years.  

<Insert obligatory comment about how some Patriots fans have been reasonable about all of it>

Why they feel the need to go to every length possible to convince a bunch of Colts fans of their team's innocence is beyond me.

 

Yeah .. I remember all too well. "This is just the beginning ... Goodall will be out of a job". On and on and on.  

[dw49]

That is a possibility that Kraft is finding out more things than what was apparent in Jan. 2015.    So maybe you are correct.

 

I think at the same time with his time with the other owners and some time to get over the shock the fine, Kraft may of had a change of heart.  He likely would not get the support of others owners.  Also, some, likely the NO Saints owner, may have told him we all have to deal with this and fines that we may not like, and we have to play along.

 

With that said though, and stepping back and trying to be as impartial as possible, I still find it tough to accept that we have received two of the most stiffest in NFL history.  Indeed, since 1980 only two fines have been handed down which included a 1st round draft pick taken, which in effect is a 4 year suspension for a 1st round player, meaning the team has lost a player that would of been on a 4 year rookie deal.  both of those fines have been levied against the patriots.  Most persons would agree that a 1st rounder is more often than not a starter.  So basically taking a 1st round draft pick is a 4 year suspension of a starter.

 

I am a strong believer of one of the principals in our US Constitution of no Ex Post Facto laws, laws which retroactivity make an action more penal then when the action occurred, there are illegal.  (that is if 1st offense OUI is 6 months probation and you get arrested for drinking and driving on Jan 15, the before trial on May 1 a new law in your state comes out and makes 1st offense OUI 10 years, the law can not be used against you retroactivity).   When we view things we must really view them with a neutral eye, after all Lady Justice is blind, and frankly look at them as we might at the time they occurred, meaning if I asked you on Jan 1st what your opinion a good penalty would be for someone tampering with the inflation of balls what would you assigned to it.  

 

When we look at how the NFL reacted in the Viking/Carolina game, the fact that 16 homes game with crowd noise is just a 5th rounder, and so on.  When we try to figure how heinous and how serious inflation is to the NFL and we see two gauges that are off by 0.40 or 40% of the range, balls that are test and do not record the same measurement,  the fact that there is silence regarding any under inflation in the past, what exactly is the seriousness of the inflation football circa January 1, 2015 and not May 1, 2015?  And what is an appropriate penalty for a violation.   That is where I have my problem. 

 

And even regarding the "independent" Wells Reports, one which made Walt Anderson the second coming of Jesus Christ in credibility some how in its "independence"-Lady Justice is blind-we don't care about the end results, found the one thing not credible in its report was Walt's recollection of which gauge he used, for it that were to be credible 8 of 11 Pat balls on one gauge at half time would fall within the prescribed drop due to temperature only.  I just find that "independent" finding . . . well . . . interesting.  

 

So yes given the mindset and tenor of what a penalty is for the crime charge on Jan 2015 should of been, I find the fine imposed to be very harsh.     

 

 

I think the Brady suspension is about right. Especially when you consider it's likely reduced. The grips you have regarding the 1st and 4th are IMO well founded.

[dw49]

Yeah I was gonna say, my posts above were unfortunately not succinct....

 

 

They were no doubt your best work

[ColtsBlueFL]

I hear you but my point on the matter is not something that came up in January, I point I made in an earlier post.  I really do not care about what was said in January or complained about.  Find me complaints made by the teams anytime between 2006 and the end of the regular season 2014.  Well more specifically find me complaints by folks prior to Brady's "you gotta know the rules" comments.

 

See the bottom line still remains it is how serious is this issue, if it was as serious as some make out then surely there would of been complaints at sometime.  Right?  If this was such a serious violation of the rules and determent to the opponents then surely someone would of brought this to the leagues attention no too soon after the first occurrences.   Are you seriously going to take a position that teams are going to allow the pats, of all teams, to continue to operate an activity which gives them a competitive advantage and one so significant it carries the biggest fine in NFL history?  You really think our enemies are going to sit back and keep quiet. really? 

 

Indeed, there were rumblings about headsets, cameras/bugs in locker room, "they know our calls" and so on about the pats and we have heard them throughout the last decade. So clearly opponents understand what things might gain an unfair advantage and they have no problem speaking out.  But yet they are silent about action X.  What does that tell you the opponents feel about action X when they are silent yet have no hesitation about being out spoken about other things that can gain an competitive advantage.

 

Look bottom line in all of this a complaint should of been filed, once the first complaint was filed, in this case your GM's letter, the league then calls the pats, tells them about the complaint, tells them we are not sure if it is true or not, but if we find you down the road violation this action we are going to have to call you out in it, they then log the call, followed by an email and letter to, its kept in the file and if subsequent to that if the pats get frisky and violate it again, then the league can take appropriate action. period. 

 

Sorry but I am not buying someone sudden concern about a rule that no one care about for years but somehow they found revisionist history days after Brady's "you gotta know the rules" comments.

 

I am not defending the violation, just stating that this was not a big deal prior to his comments.  And with that said when we try to grasp and garner a penalty for the violation we must necessity look to how serious folks took this problem 5 minutes before the game between the Pats and the Ravens in January.   that is my point.        

 

The whole point is everyone complained without proof, so nothing ever got taken serious by the NFL, ever, over the years.  Just noise, lost in a sea of other noise(other types of complaints). Period. Until the Colts called up officials during the game and said "You demand proof, we got your proof right here in our hands!" When you feel someone has gotten away with something for so long, when an opportunity to make a dramatic complaint comes up, you likely jump on it.

 

Bold move because there were outcries of the Colts cheating by deflating that ball and then crying to the NFL in order to Frame the Pats; not put an end to a long understood condition.

 

No matter what, unless they expand the PSI range for the QB's in the rules, it will be a mute point going forward.  The NFL will do everything to be sure the pre-game balls are at 12.5 min up to 13.5 max.  And securely guarded at all times after.

[dw49]

lol I meant Superman's 2 paragraph and 1 sentence post, not the one that has could have several chapters.

 

 

Ahhh ....you're good by me

[crazycolt1]

I'm sure he didn't make it up...but clearly nobody cared or thought it mattered enough to raise a stink.

Let's say I'm the Cleveland Browns and by golly my biggest rival is the big bad Pittsburgh Steelers. The entire league knows they have some guys that have been taking steroids...boy do they hit hard!!! But I guess a lot of teams have guys that take PED's...who cares it happens that's just our business. Now we've been pretty crappy for a few years and darn it we finally made it to the AFC Championship Game!!! WHOOO! And guess who we have to play? We have to play the Steelers, who have been kicking our butts bad...like reeeeal bad...consistently too...really though, it's been bad. I'm gonna just write a letter to the NFL here we go..."It's well known that the Steelers take PEDs. Oh...but they're pretty slick about it...it would be great if you could test them throughout the game. Thanks, kisses."

So the game was close for the first half and luckily all of the Steelers we know that take steroids got injured and couldn't play the 2nd half. Every single one.

Wait...we still lost 100 to 0?

Hmmmm...Well at least we can hang an AFC Finalist banner!

This is not about the Steelers. This is about the Patriots. Is there any way you can quit with the deflection? You and a couple of other Patriot posters are real good at talking about what other teams or players do and don't do trying to make excuses for yourself because you are a Patriot fan. He is a new concept. Accept what your team did and live with it. The reality is your team got caught. End of story.

[Restored]

I hear you but my point on the matter is not something that came up in January, I point I made in an earlier post.  I really do not care about what was said in January or complained about.  Find me complaints made by the teams anytime between 2006 and the end of the regular season 2014.  Well more specifically find me complaints by folks prior to Brady's "you gotta know the rules" comments.

 

See the bottom line still remains it is how serious is this issue, if it was as serious as some make out then surely there would of been complaints at sometime.  Right?  If this was such a serious violation of the rules and determent to the opponents then surely someone would of brought this to the leagues attention no too soon after the first occurrences.   Are you seriously going to take a position that teams are going to allow the pats, of all teams, to continue to operate an activity which gives them a competitive advantage and one so significant it carries the biggest fine in NFL history?  You really think our enemies are going to sit back and keep quiet. really? 

 

Indeed, there were rumblings about headsets, cameras/bugs in locker room, "they know our calls" and so on about the pats and we have heard them throughout the last decade. So clearly opponents understand what things might gain an unfair advantage and they have no problem speaking out.  But yet they are silent about action X.  What does that tell you the opponents feel about action X when they are silent yet have no hesitation about being out spoken about other things that can gain an competitive advantage.

 

Look bottom line in all of this a complaint should of been filed, once the first complaint was filed, in this case your GM's letter, the league then calls the pats, tells them about the complaint, tells them we are not sure if it is true or not, but if we find you down the road violation this action we are going to have to call you out in it, they then log the call, followed by an email and letter to, its kept in the file and if subsequent to that if the pats get frisky and violate it again, then the league can take appropriate action. period. 

 

Sorry but I am not buying someone sudden concern about a rule that no one care about for years but somehow they found revisionist history days after Brady's "you gotta know the rules" comments.

 

I am not defending the violation, just stating that this was not a big deal prior to his comments.  And with that said when we try to grasp and garner a penalty for the violation we must necessity look to how serious folks took this problem 5 minutes before the game between the Pats and the Ravens in January.   that is my point.        

 

You are really grasping at straws here. Since you are in large part hypothesizing here, I will as well. One of the things to note about this was that when Grigson brought this to the league's attention, they at first didn't acknowledge his concern.

 

Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-didnt-take-colts-deflated-football-warning-seriously-2015-5

 

With that said, one could hypothesize that the Colts may not have been the first team to bring this to the league's attention. For all we know, other teams could've tried to bring it up in a more casual manner and were ignored.

 

You are repeating the same mistakes other Patriots/Boston media types have done in trying to nitpick at the NFL's processes in this matter. Accept the punishment like the Patriots owner has and move on.

[Jaric]

This stuff is getting old pretty quick now. Basically, the Patriots tried to get a small competetive advantage via illegal means. They got caught red handed. Own up and we are talking about the draft, the schedule, the FA's, coaching and QB power ramkings. But no.

Roll on Training Camp.

I could honestly not care less about the ball pressure.

It's the absurd attempts to cover it up that have me fascinated.

[The Old Crow]

I'm sure he didn't make it up...but clearly nobody cared or thought it mattered enough to raise a stink.

Let's say I'm the Cleveland Browns and by golly my biggest rival is the big bad Pittsburgh Steelers. The entire league knows they have some guys that have been taking steroids...boy do they hit hard!!! But I guess a lot of teams have guys that take PED's...who cares it happens that's just our business. Now we've been pretty crappy for a few years and darn it we finally made it to the AFC Championship Game!!! WHOOO! And guess who we have to play? We have to play the Steelers, who have been kicking our butts bad...like reeeeal bad...consistently too...really though, it's been bad. I'm gonna just write a letter to the NFL here we go..."It's well known that the Steelers take PEDs. Oh...but they're pretty slick about it...it would be great if you could test them throughout the game. Thanks, kisses."

So the game was close for the first half and luckily all of the Steelers we know that take steroids got injured and couldn't play the 2nd half. Every single one.

Wait...we still lost 100 to 0?

Hmmmm...Well at least we can hang an AFC Finalist banner!

Honestly, I would take a legitimate AFC Finalist banner over four asterisk, pock-marked, and tainted Championship banners.

[Jaric]

Guys, could we please stop talking about that stupid AFC Finalist banner?

This thread is about Patriots' shame, not ours.

[OffensivelyPC]

Guys, could we please stop talking about that stupid AFC Finalist banner?

This thread is about Patriots' shame, not ours.

Face the corner and don't come out until I say, dammit!

[Jaric]

Face the corner and don't come out until I say, dammit!

When I'm declared King, ripping that thing down will be my first executive order.

[OffensivelyPC]

When I'm declared King, ripping that thing down will be my first executive order.

I was just going to wait until I have to stuff my parents in a nursing home and tell them to stay until I decide to come back and skip on my way out.

[lollygagger8]

Quite the assumptions you are making...

 

I seriously dont get how anyone could have watched that press conference with Kraft and not thought that he was being sincere. 

 

I fixed your sig tag for you. You're welcome.

 

 *******        NEW ENGLAND CHEATERS- SOFTBALL CHAMPIONS       ******  

[dynasty13]

Honestly, I would take a legitimate AFC Finalist banner over four asterisk, pock-marked, and tainted Championship banners.

 

That's fine...but just remember exactly what we are talking about here: the pressure in a football. If you want to attach an asterisk to each banner up there, that's you're right. But lets be a little realistic here, too. Are all successes tainted for a team that had a player suspended for using PED's? Are all the championships earned by teams in the past that had players that used stick-em tainted?

 

Hate the team all you want, call em scumbags if you need to...but just remember what this is all actually about. And judging by the way the league reacted to the initial complaint in the first place and by the way they did nothing but 'warn' other teams that were found to be committing similar offenses and...well...I think maybe some people are overreacting a bit.

[JPFolks]

Translation : $1.00 fine and no further punishment.

You only missed by $999,999, and a first and fourth round pick.  Brady may be the next to get the full sentence. 

[Restored]

That's fine...but just remember exactly what we are talking about here: the pressure in a football. If you want to attach an asterisk to each banner up there, that's you're right. But lets be a little realistic here, too. Are all successes tainted for a team that had a player suspended for using PED's? Are all the championships earned by teams in the past that had players that used stick-em tainted?

 

Hate the team all you want, call em scumbags if you need to...but just remember what this is all actually about. And judging by the way the league reacted to the initial complaint in the first place and by the way they did nothing but 'warn' other teams that were found to be committing similar offenses and...well...I think maybe some people are overreacting a bit.

 

I really don't think you need to be the one reminding people what it's actually about nor tell people they are overreacting. It isn't and hasn't been about the act itself but rather the arrogance and the lying that has accompanied this entire fiasco. Now tell me, if Mr. Kraft was so adamant that Brady and the Patriots are innocent, why didn't he fight this in court like amfootball and so many other Patriot fans said he would?

 

Don't try and deflect by bringing up other teams/players and their own missteps. Your logic would echo that of someone getting pulled over for speeding and telling the officer "well officer, everyone speeds too so you should let me go!". It doesn't work like that.

[Superman]

Regardless...Brady has appealed and I honestly believe his suspension will be reduced if not eliminated. Time will tell.

 

I said the day it was announced that I believed his suspension would be eliminated. Not because I think it was wrong, but because there's a pattern of undermining league discipline lately, justified or not. Bountygate is the best example, where Tagliabue said 'yeah, they did it, but I'm overturning the suspensions anyways.' 

 

Let me ask you this: If there was incontrovertible proof that Brady was involved, and he had lied during the investigation and refused a reasonable request to review messages on his phone, would you think four games is too much?

[dynasty13]

I really don't think you need to be the one reminding people what it's actually about nor tell people they are overreacting. It isn't and hasn't been about the act itself but rather the arrogance and the lying that has accompanied this entire fiasco. Now tell me, if Mr. Kraft was so adamant that Brady and the Patriots are innocent, why didn't he fight this in court like amfootball and so many other Patriot fans said he would?

 

Don't try and deflect by bringing up other teams/players and their own missteps. Your logic would echo that of someone getting pulled over for speeding and telling the officer "well officer, everyone speeds too so you should let me go!". It doesn't work like that.

 

And there it is. Finally the truth: This whole situation is more about how the team responded to the allegations rather than the action itself. 

 

In other words, its more about the integrity of the people involved and little about the actual integrity of the game.

 

And the last time I checked, Championships don't 'become tainted' because some players were arrogant. Asterisks aren't added to the record books because of arrogance.

[JPFolks]

I wrote a song about Deflategate yesterday, to the tune of The Boxer by Simon & Garfunkel.

 

You should send this to Dan Patrick and also Howard Stern... I bet one of the would play it.  I am going to share it on my FB page.  Nice job, nice playing/vocal work as well as great parody writing! 

[JPFolks]

For me Brady has always been another matter, all the Wells report found was that he was "generally aware" of the situation. 

I think they said that he was AT LEAST generally aware as in "best case scenario" or a simple starting point.  When he then came out and denied involvement or ANY knowledge of what had happened, and on top of that failed to cooperate even though company investigations are known to require people to turn over their communications including Cell Phones (I believe all NFL Staff did so in the Ray Rice tape investigation) so there was precedence set for lack of cooperation, especially on the unbelievably lenient terms offered.  I suspect (only a gut feeling admittedly) that they were going to allow his lawyer to turn over any relevant Texts because they had many they never made public which were more damning and which they would have brought forward.  That is an old prosecution/investigation trick to allow someone enough rope to hang themselves.  Had that "sting" (and it would have been just that) taken place, Brady would have been ruined on a level that this doesn't begin to touch.  I think when Goodell and Kraft sat down one on one he got a reality check on how much worse things would get if they fought it and how as severe as the punishment seemed, it was very light compared to what would come out (or perhaps what they feared would come out that no one even knew about yet).  Proof, for example, that this had occurred going back through multiple Super Bowls.  We'll find out what Brady gets, but the Cheater Tag is now permanent and an Asterisk will be on most people's minds who are not big Patriots fans. 

[OffensivelyPC]

I think they said that he was AT LEAST generally aware as in "best case scenario" or a simple starting point.  When he then came out and denied involvement or ANY knowledge of what had happened, and on top of that failed to cooperate even though company investigations are known to require people to turn over their communications including Cell Phones (I believe all NFL Staff did so in the Ray Rice tape investigation) so there was precedence set for lack of cooperation, especially on the unbelievably lenient terms offered.  I suspect (only a gut feeling admittedly) that they were going to allow his lawyer to turn over any relevant Texts because they had many they never made public which were more damning and which they would have brought forward.  That is an old prosecution/investigation trick to allow someone enough rope to hang themselves.  Had that "sting" (and it would have been just that) taken place, Brady would have been ruined on a level that this doesn't begin to touch.  I think when Goodell and Kraft sat down one on one he got a reality check on how much worse things would get if they fought it and how as severe as the punishment seemed, it was very light compared to what would come out (or perhaps what they feared would come out that no one even knew about yet).  Proof, for example, that this had occurred going back through multiple Super Bowls.  We'll find out what Brady gets, but the Cheater Tag is now permanent and an Asterisk will be on most people's minds who are not big Patriots fans. 

I'm a bit confused by your explanation of the old prosecution trick.  Do you mean, that, during the investigation, they would have let Brady turn over texts, or do you mean, like now, before the appeals hearing?  Because if you are saying that during the investigation, Wells would have let Brady's lawyer turn over any texts, that's exactly what happened according to the Wells report and his subsequent public statement.  He said, that not only would he let Brady's attorney screen and decide which texts to turn over, he also told Brady's team that he would take their word for it that that's all the texts there were.

[corgi]

And there it is. Finally the truth: This whole situation is more about how the team responded to the allegations rather than the action itself. 

 

In other words, its more about the integrity of the people involved and little about the actual integrity of the game.

 

And the last time I checked, Championships don't 'become tainted' because some players were arrogant. Asterisks aren't added to the record books because of arrogance.

The lack of integrity of the people involved effected the integrity of the game. Asterisks would be added because a player used an illegal advantage.

[crazycolt1]

And there it is. Finally the truth: This whole situation is more about how the team responded to the allegations rather than the action itself. 

 

In other words, its more about the integrity of the people involved and little about the actual integrity of the game.

 

And the last time I checked, Championships don't 'become tainted' because some players were arrogant. Asterisks aren't added to the record books because of arrogance.

Nice how you put in other words in there. Exactly what does that mean? One thing you did get right is the lack of integrity of the people involved.  No, the finale truth is the Patriots got caught cheating. The NFL fined them 1 millions dollars. Took a #1 and a #4 round pick away. Brady got a 4 game suspension. Brady may or may not get his suspension reduced but not thrown out. All these excuses, reasons, opinions and anything else you, me or anyone else says or believes means nothing. Your constant deflection as to what other teams or players do is just an excuse you tell yourself that what the Patriots did was OK because in your mind you can't accept that your beloved Patriots are cheaters. Well. too bad. They are cheaters and no matter what your opinion is it does not change those facts. Now accept the facts or keep your whine going till hades freezes over.

[Restored]

And there it is. Finally the truth: This whole situation is more about how the team responded to the allegations rather than the action itself. 

 

In other words, its more about the integrity of the people involved and little about the actual integrity of the game.

 

And the last time I checked, Championships don't 'become tainted' because some players were arrogant. Asterisks aren't added to the record books because of arrogance.

 

Don't misconstrue what actually went on here. The action itself was wrong and it was against the rules. You need to understand that our society in general reacts worse to an infraction of any kind when it is accompanied with lying and being uncooperative. The NFL sees it in this regard as well. In addition to the rules being broke, Brady and the Patriots being uncooperative is also what lead to the severity of the punishment. The NFL wants to do its best to project a certain image for its game. The Patriots breaking the rules and then lying about it damages the integrity and image of its game for its fans and observers worldwide.

 

No one said they became tainted because of the arrogance. They became tainted because they broke the rules. The arrogance just adds to the disdain for the franchise.

[chad72]

I'm a bit confused by your explanation of the old prosecution trick.  Do you mean, that, during the investigation, they would have let Brady turn over texts, or do you mean, like now, before the appeals hearing?  Because if you are saying that during the investigation, Wells would have let Brady's lawyer turn over any texts, that's exactly what happened according to the Wells report and his subsequent public statement.  He said, that not only would he let Brady's attorney screen and decide which texts to turn over, he also told Brady's team that he would take their word for it that that's all the texts there were.

 

I think what he might be saying is that the Wells investigation could potentially have had more damning evidence that would have been brought out (much like Spygate tapes being destroyed) had the appeal gone through. It is not out of the realm of possibility that Goodell saved a few trump cards for the appeal process and when he sat with Kraft, he probably revealed/mentioned some of it to him and Kraft got the message that it would be more damage to his organization and Brady if the appeal process and rhetoric is dragged out.

 

Again, it is all speculative but pulling a sudden rope-a-dope does not happen unless Kraft realized something more than what was made public, IMO.

[dynasty13]

Nice how you put in other words in there. Exactly what does that mean? One thing you did get right is the lack of integrity of the people involved.  No, the finale truth is the Patriots got caught cheating. The NFL fined them 1 millions dollars. Took a #1 and a #4 round pick away. Brady got a 4 game suspension. Brady may or may not get his suspension reduced but not thrown out. All these excuses, reasons, opinions and anything else you, me or anyone else says or believes means nothing. Your constant deflection as to what other teams or players do is just an excuse you tell yourself that what the Patriots did was OK because in your mind you can't accept that your beloved Patriots are cheaters. Well. too bad. They are cheaters and no matter what your opinion is it does not change those facts. Now accept the facts or keep your whine going till hades freezes over.

 

Listen...I'm not naive. I understand people's disdain for the Patriots. What you don't understand is that when I mention precedent and consistency of punishment for similar offenses, that isn't me 'deflecting as to what other teams or players do' to justify the Patriots' actions...it's me wondering why the punishment itself was so harsh for something that many view as not really the biggest deal in the world. 

 

We as Patriots fans will embrace the hate. We have become the Yankees of the NFL and I'm ok with that. Do the Yankees have an asterisk attached to their 2009 Championship banner because Arod was right in the middle of his steroids scandal? No. If I wanted to, I could make the case all day long that they cheated but you know what? Who cares. That 27th Championship was still earned and I don't look at it as tainted. 

 

You can view these Patriots however you want...but those banners will still hang in the southeast corner of Gillette Stadium, and when I go to Superbowl.com 15 years from now and look at the list of Superbowl results...the New England Patriots will still be listed there under 2014...and there will be no asterisk anywhere in sight. That's good enough for me.

[lollygagger8]

And there it is. Finally the truth: This whole situation is more about how the team responded to the allegations rather than the action itself. 

 

This whole denial thing that pats* fans are eating up, is quite pathetic. Everyone knows the truth, but NE Cheaters fans choose not to accept it.  

 

 

Kraft folded because: 

 

a) He's afraid of what might come out during the appeal process. The pats* have things to hide and they don't want this going beyond the standard appeal beyond the NFL. Plus Shady Brady having to actually turn over his phone records would ruin their entire facade. 

 

b) The NFL has more than enough info to warrant much more than the punishment that has been handed down already. Goodell is looking out for his little buddy Kraft and making deals behind the scenes.