NFL/Patriots Deflategate compromise UPDATE: Pats will not appeal

[Nadine]

I am at the beach and havn't read much here the past 5 days.

So....fill me in. If I'm reading this correctly the Pats are taking their punishment and moving on without appealing?

 

Ignore football.  The beach is much better!

 

I'm torn.

 

On one hand, I respect Kraft for all his "good of the NFL outweighs the wishes of one team" talk. Sounds statesman-like.

 

On the other hand, I think his debunking attempt last week was weak and dishonest, especially coupled with the preemptive suspensions of the two stooges. 

 

And on the third hand, I feel like some kind of dirty political exchange has been made, and Brady's suspension will be reduced or even thrown out on appeal. Now I always felt like an appeal had a good chance of vacating Brady's suspension, but I didn't expect back room deal making like this. But the NFL is big business, and this is how it works. 

 

You cannot trust third hands.  They shouldn't exist

 

I wrote a song about Deflategate yesterday, to the tune of The Boxer by Simon & Garfunkel.

 

 

Excellent! I love that song. Really good job

 

Here's what's starting to * me off....you guys keep saying 'no one outside of New England agrees' or 'Pats fans are the only ones who don't understand logic'....but when some analyst DOES write a column citing some of our concerns, or someone on tv DOES attempt to explain some of the issues with the report, you all blow it off as some Patriots bias and refuse to even consider some of their opinions as possible. I maintain that it is not that crazy for us to question some things in that report...but you all took your hate for the Patriots and used the report to make the leaps needed for you to automatically think that there is no room to question and that sucks. 

 

The rest of the country hates the Patriots. They have for the better part of 10 years now...this whole situation an enormous wet dream for each and every one of them. You guys have said it yourselves...they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt...and although that may be true, that doesn't do much to prove your objectivity on the matter. As biased as you think we are as blind Patriot lovers, you guys are just as biased as Patriot haters. Your minds were made up the Monday after the AFCCG, and I'm willing to bet that even if the Wells report concluded that it was more probable than not that Tom Brady was not aware, it wouldnt in the least bit change your opinion of him or the Patriots. The damage was done the second misinformation started leaking out about the situation.

 

I think there are Patriot haters so to an extent agree with you.  I'm not one of them (I only hate the steelers) and have been irritated my self with how gleefully people have hashed and rehashed this.  It's not that fun.  

 

That said, I was livid when it happened and I don't see how Pats fans cannot be disappointed in their team.  That's the thing that surprised me.  I didn't hear any Pats fans being dismayed.  Perhaps that's just perception on my part because I do think it's clear that there was evil doing.

 

Gleefully willing to move on and thankful to Robert Kraft for doing so.

 

There are more fun things to think about and talk about

[Superman]

Here's what's starting to * me off....you guys keep saying 'no one outside of New England agrees' or 'Pats fans are the only ones who don't understand logic'....but when some analyst DOES write a column citing some of our concerns, or someone on tv DOES attempt to explain some of the issues with the report, you all blow it off as some Patriots bias and refuse to even consider some of their opinions as possible. I maintain that it is not that crazy for us to question some things in that report...but you all took your hate for the Patriots and used the report to make the leaps needed for you to automatically think that there is no room to question and that sucks. 

 

The rest of the country hates the Patriots. They have for the better part of 10 years now...this whole situation an enormous wet dream for each and every one of them. You guys have said it yourselves...they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt...and although that may be true, that doesn't do much to prove your objectivity on the matter. As biased as you think we are as blind Patriot lovers, you guys are just as biased as Patriot haters. Your minds were made up the Monday after the AFCCG, and I'm willing to bet that even if the Wells report concluded that it was more probable than not that Tom Brady was not aware, it wouldnt in the least bit change your opinion of him or the Patriots. The damage was done the second misinformation started leaking out about the situation.

 

Seriously? Pats fans have spent all this time on the Colts board -- and you're welcome here -- talking about how Colts fans aren't objective, including statements like "only a fool would think that" and "if you had an objective bone in your body," etc., and now you're * off? This would be tragic if it wasn't so hilarious. Consider who I was responding to and that poster's previous comments before you get so huffy.

 

I don't actually hate the Patriots. I have barely any respect for them as an organization, especially after this whole situation, but I don't hate them. That cause for a blanket dismissal of the opinion of anyone who is a Colts fan is simply inadmissible. Sorry. As a matter of fact, if anyone were to be lacking in objectivity, it would be Patriots fans before Colts fans. You say I need to prove my objectivity; you prove yours first.

 

In that same vein, I haven't accused people in the media of Patriots bias, at least not in the name of dismissing their opinion. The only time that is even an issue for me is when the Patriots accuse Wells of being partial, then throw up a website with research and a rebuttal sponsored by one of Kraft's business partners. When I have dismissed statements or opinions of anyone, it's been on the basis of their conclusions not making sense. For example, the "report" this morning that the NFL told the Pats to suspend McNally and Jastremski (which has since been refuted by the NFL), which just didn't stand up to scrutiny. I didn't accuse Schefter of having a Patriots bias. I simply said that what he's presenting doesn't make sense, and I said why it doesn't make sense. 

 

You keep relying on this 'everyone hates the Pats' reasoning for why people believe they cheated, and it's just not as strong as you think. You say 'even if the report had said Brady probably didn't know...' but the report said he probably did know. And your answer? Do you say "I'm biased, so my opinion doesn't really hold weight here"? Do you say "Damn, the report makes a compelling case against the Pats"? No, you come to a Colts site and accuse everyone here of being biased, as if you're not. 

 

We're all fans of one thing or another. Let's stop pretending that any of us is free from bias, especially in this regard. When you start throwing this out -- like Bad Morty did in response to a simple question, and like you're doing now -- it makes it look like you're running from the basic facts that we call can see, biased or not. McNally, the texts referencing Brady, "the deflator," the bathroom, the suspensions, etc., in addition to the fact that the Patriots footballs were below specs, it's plenty to reach a conclusion about what happened. I've been more than willing to go back and forth on this nonsense, but when it comes down to "you're biased!" I lose interest. That's a very weak and very transparent deflection.

[oldunclemark]

The plea deal comes before sentencing. That could have happened at any point before they were penalized. Accepting the commissioner's authority is saying "okay, here's our draft picks and $1m." Not "reduce these penalties or we'll sue." Let them drag it into court, let them produce all their information through discovery and subject their employees to actual scrutiny and cross examination.

They have not been sentenced, finally.....the appeal is still on going.

Nobody wants to 'Let 'em drag into court'

Kraft accepting the penalties and Brady accepting a two game suspension (a prediction) upholds the commissioners authority and

gets Brady back on the field 2 weeks earlier.

Make it so

[dw49]

Seriously? Pats fans have spent all this time on the Colts board -- and you're welcome here -- talking about how Colts fans aren't objective, including statements like "only a fool would think that" and "if you had an objective bone in your body," etc., and now you're * off? This would be tragic if it wasn't so hilarious. Consider who I was responding to and that poster's previous comments before you get so huffy.

 

I don't actually hate the Patriots. I have barely any respect for them as an organization, especially after this whole situation, but I don't hate them. That cause for a blanket dismissal of the opinion of anyone who is a Colts fan is simply inadmissible. Sorry. As a matter of fact, if anyone were to be lacking in objectivity, it would be Patriots fans before Colts fans. You say I need to prove my objectivity; you prove yours first.

 

In that same vein, I haven't accused people in the media of Patriots bias, at least not in the name of dismissing their opinion. The only time that is even an issue for me is when the Patriots accuse Wells of being partial, then throw up a website with research and a rebuttal sponsored by one of Kraft's business partners. When I have dismissed statements or opinions of anyone, it's been on the basis of their conclusions not making sense. For example, the "report" this morning that the NFL told the Pats to suspend McNally and Jastremski (which has since been refuted by the NFL), which just didn't stand up to scrutiny. I didn't accuse Schefter of having a Patriots bias. I simply said that what he's presenting doesn't make sense, and I said why it doesn't make sense. 

 

You keep relying on this 'everyone hates the Pats' reasoning for why people believe they cheated, and it's just not as strong as you think. You say 'even if the report had said Brady probably didn't know...' but the report said he probably did know. And your answer? Do you say "I'm biased, so my opinion doesn't really hold weight here"? Do you say "Damn, the report makes a compelling case against the Pats"? No, you come to a Colts site and accuse everyone here of being biased, as if you're not. 

 

We're all fans of one thing or another. Let's stop pretending that any of us is free from bias, especially in this regard. When you start throwing this out -- like Bad Morty did in response to a simple question, and like you're doing now -- it makes it look like you're running from the basic facts that we call can see, biased or not. McNally, the texts referencing Brady, "the deflator," the bathroom, the suspensions, etc., in addition to the fact that the Patriots footballs were below specs, it's plenty to reach a conclusion about what happened. I've been more than willing to go back and forth on this nonsense, but when it comes down to "you're biased!" I lose interest. That's a very weak and very transparent deflection.

 

 

Did you ever see a dog that just took a severe beating go in a corner and lick himself ? I think thats what all  the Pat fans are doing after reading your above post. You totally kicked the living crap out of about 50 pages of ridiculous denial .

[dw49]

Ignore football.  The beach is much better!

 

 

You cannot trust third hands.  They shouldn't exist

 

 

Excellent! I love that song. Really good job

 

 

I think there are Patriot haters so to an extent agree with you.  I'm not one of them (I only hate the steelers) and have been irritated my self with how gleefully people have hashed and rehashed this.  It's not that fun.  

 

That said, I was livid when it happened and I don't see how Pats fans cannot be disappointed in their team.  That's the thing that surprised me.  I didn't hear any Pats fans being dismayed.  Perhaps that's just perception on my part because I do think it's clear that there was evil doing.

 

Gleefully willing to move on and thankful to Robert Kraft for doing so.

 

There are more fun things to think about and talk about

 

 

It's not your "perception" , it's the reality . Sad.... and annoying

[crazycolt1]

I read the whole thing...that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

 

So if a Patriots employee stood on the sidelines and in plain view let air out of the footballs, that would be worthy of just a warning? By saying that two instances of illegal ball manipulation are not even comparable simply because one was done in the open and one was done secretly, it implies that you believe the end result isn't really a big deal since one instance simply got a warning. It's starting to seem that people are more offended by the possible deception of the act and not the act itself. In the end it sounds like everyone is angry and overly sensitive to the possibility that they were lied to, and not really concerned the integrity of the game.

Well he didn't stand on the sidelines and deflate the footballs in plain sight. The Wells report thinks it was done in the restroom. Where the big deal come  is the none cooperation of Brady in the investigation. He had a chance to clear this up and didn't.  By Brady not being cooperative this whole thing was started. Did it ever cross your mind the reason Kraft is back peddling is because he no longer wanted this to go to a higher court? In a higher court Brady, his cell phone and records and the two equipment men would be subpoenaed into court and forced to testify under oath. Could be what Kraft is saying now is just saving face? As it stands right now all the Patriot fans think no one did anything wrong. If that was proven in a higher court to be false all your balloons would be popped. But no, that would make too much sense.

[Yehoodi]

Well I do think it is in the best interest of the league to not drag this out any further. I also think it is the best interest of the Pats. I don't think there was any way they would win an appeal.

I like you, Yehoodi, and I understand your loyalty, but we disagree on the integrity of the Pats.

 

  . . . gotta get the Patriot Way in the thread one way or the other . . .

 

On the serious side of things time will tell how things might end up and hopefully we will be able to get a fuller picture on things as time goes by.

 

I think the dicey thing is that with the way the NFL is set up it is tough for an owner to sue the league and to set any kind of precedent.  As such one just hopes that the commissioner understands this coming from the other direction and does not go too far overboard as he knows the appellate process is something unlikely to happen, and thus he kind of has absolute power. 

 

If say for the sake of point of argument a given action is worth a 5th round draft pick.  if the Commissioner gives out a 3rd round or 6th round pick one would guess that although it is heavy and light in each respective case it is not so far out of line for one to go to court.  If on the other hand the commissioner comes out and imposes three (3) 1st rounders then at that point one would come to a realization that that is arbitrary and capricious given one an out to got to court and get around any league agreement, bylaws and what not.  It is a sliding scale with no right or wrong answer especially if you are between the said examples. 

 

The problem arises with the instant case as some, myself included, thought the punishment was harsh.  The question then becomes is it so harsh that one wants to be the first since Al Davis to go to court and argue that it was arbitrary and capricious base on the facts before the commissioner.  I am sure it was a tough call for Kraft given the tone of his voice in the presser he was struggling with the decision. 

 

As for the fine itself I found it to be harsh, it is not like they found something which the grapevine had rumblings, like headsets, bugs in the locker room, etc, or even taping again, "they know our signals", etc, we have heard these rumblings from players about the pats for the past 10 years.  We have heard about those kind of rumblings and if pats were caught red handed with these kinds of things then one could use those as corroboration of the instant crime.  I just for the life of me between the time of the new rule change (and even before)  and Jan 2015 I can not recall any postgame presser or statement by players about the inflation of a ball.  The only one that I am aware of was the colts in November but that was an away game where we do not have custody of a the balls. go figure.  

 

Given that back drop, and no warnings nor complaints, and the fact that our balls at home games were on the field for the refs and other players to touch, grab and feel some 50-70 times per game in all of those home games since 2006, 9 years or 144 games or some 8600 touches in 9 years and no one noticed or said anything?  Its not like a curved stick in hockey (which only carries a 2 minute minor penalty btw), or a golf ball, or baseball bat, all of which are things the opponent and refs will not see as readily as the same is not touched by them, footballs on the other hand are touched and grabbed all of the time by the refs and on occasion an opponent.

 

If we are to believe the masses that there is some perceptible level of feel of the altered football by the pats then surely one of those 8600 touches someone would of caught on the said something?  Told the pats, hey cut it out, stop doing it.  Just as the folks in the Vikings/Carolina game were out in the open, so were the pats balls after any adjustment made by the pats post inspection or set up pre inspection.  So for me I find all of this silent to the worst penalty in NFL history a rather large jump to be honest, especially with no warning on the record.  And again, every ball the pats played with were in the refs hands 50-70 times a game.   Now all of a sudden its a federal case, please.

 

I intentionally avoided talking about this in the past 10 days largely due to the fact that my brother was down last weekend for Mothers Day and frankly I did not feel like spending countless hours on this matter.  And given the tenor of some of the feelings I really did not want to get too involved in the fray.

 

I like you too Granz     I hope you are having fun on the beach.    

[Superman]

Did you ever see a dog that just took a severe beating go in a corner and lick himself ? I think thats what all  the Pat fans are doing after reading your above post. You totally kicked the living crap out of about 50 pages of ridiculous denial .

 

I'm just saying what I think.

[crazycolt1]

Yeah I wish they had kept them all up. As you say no see = evil   Even the first one, the jets, Goodell didn't want shown so that also came down then he destroyed them all. My bet is they still exist with Fox Glazier.

I would think you are correct.

[Yehoodi]

there is a lot of irony in a pats fan telling us to revel in the integrity of the Pats after they just got busted for cheating twice...

 

Patriot Way baby. 

 

I was half razing you all. 

 

Seriously though you can find my thoughts on the matter in my recent post to Granz.   I do sincerely think that given my thoughts in my post I can understand the struggle Kraft had to decide between letting it go and suing the league.  

[dw49]

  . . . gotta get the Patriot Way in the thread one way or the other . . .

 

On the serious side of things time will tell how things might end up and hopefully we will be able to get a fuller picture on things as time goes by.

 

I think the dicey thing is that with the way the NFL is set up it is tough for an owner to sue the league and to set any kind of precedent.  As such one just hopes that the commissioner understands this coming from the other direction and does not go too far overboard as he knows the appellate process is something unlikely to happen, and thus he kind of has absolute power. 

 

If say for the sake of point of argument a given action is worth a 5th round draft pick.  if the Commissioner gives out a 3rd round or 6th round pick one would guess that although it is heavy and light in each respective case it is not so far out of line for one to go to court.  If on the other hand the commissioner comes out and imposes three (3) 1st rounders then at that point one would come to a realization that that is arbitrary and capricious given one an out to got to court and get around any league agreement, bylaws and what not.  It is a sliding scale with no right or wrong answer especially if you are between the said examples. 

 

The problem arises with the instant case as some, myself included, thought the punishment was harsh.  The question then becomes is it so harsh that one wants to be the first since Al Davis to go to court and argue that it was arbitrary and capricious base on the facts before the commissioner.  I am sure it was a tough call for Kraft given the tone of his voice in the presser he was struggling with the decision. 

 

As for the fine itself I found it to be harsh, it is not like they found something which the grapevine had rumblings, like headsets, bugs in the locker room, etc, or even taping again, "they know our signals", etc, we have heard these rumblings from players about the pats for the past 10 years.  We have heard about those kind of rumblings and if pats were caught red handed with these kinds of things then one could use those as corroboration of the instant crime.  I just for the life of me between the time of the new rule change (and even before)  and Jan 2015 I can not recall any postgame presser or statement by players about the inflation of a ball.  The only one that I am aware of was the colts in November but that was an away game where we do not have custody of a the balls. go figure.  

 

Given that back drop, and no warnings nor complaints, and the fact that our balls at home games were on the field for the refs and other players to touch, grab and feel some 50-70 times per game in all of those home games since 2006, 9 years or 144 games or some 8600 touches in 9 years and no one noticed or said anything?  Its not like a curved stick in hockey (which only carries a 2 minute minor penalty btw), or a golf ball, or baseball bat, all of which are things the opponent and refs will not see as readily as the same is not touched by them, footballs on the other hand are touched and grabbed all of the time by the refs and on occasion an opponent.

 

If we are to believe the masses that there is some perceptible level of feel of the altered football by the pats then surely one of those 8600 touches someone would of caught on the said something?  Told the pats, hey cut it out, stop doing it.  Just as the folks in the Vikings/Carolina game were out in the open, so were the pats balls after any adjustment made by the pats post inspection or set up pre inspection.  So for me I find all of this silent to the worst penalty in NFL history a rather large jump to be honest, especially with no warning on the record.  And again, every ball the pats played with were in the refs hands 50-70 times a game.   Now all of a sudden its a federal case, please.

 

I intentionally avoided talking about this in the past 10 days largely due to the fact that my brother was down last weekend for Mothers Day and frankly I did not feel like spending countless hours on this matter.  And given the tenor of some of the feelings I really did not want to get too involved in the fray.

 

I like you too Granz     I hope you are having fun on the beach.    

 

 

I can sympathize with you that thought the penalty was too harsh. What really annoys me are those that just ignore those text , Kraft included. I have no issues with you as you have been mostly reasonable throughout this process. As far as the penalties , I think I would say more harsh than too lenient . But really a tough thing to gauge and I'm in the middle.

[dgambill]

Here's what's starting to * me off....you guys keep saying 'no one outside of New England agrees' or 'Pats fans are the only ones who don't understand logic'....but when some analyst DOES write a column citing some of our concerns, or someone on tv DOES attempt to explain some of the issues with the report, you all blow it off as some Patriots bias and refuse to even consider some of their opinions as possible. I maintain that it is not that crazy for us to question some things in that report...but you all took your hate for the Patriots and used the report to make the leaps needed for you to automatically think that there is no room to question and that sucks. 

 

The rest of the country hates the Patriots. They have for the better part of 10 years now...this whole situation an enormous wet dream for each and every one of them. You guys have said it yourselves...they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt...and although that may be true, that doesn't do much to prove your objectivity on the matter. As biased as you think we are as blind Patriot lovers, you guys are just as biased as Patriot haters. Your minds were made up the Monday after the AFCCG, and I'm willing to bet that even if the Wells report concluded that it was more probable than not that Tom Brady was not aware, it wouldnt in the least bit change your opinion of him or the Patriots. The damage was done the second misinformation started leaking out about the situation.

I agree there are a lot of people that had jumped to conclusions...many who think the Patriots have cheated all along....basically your Patriot conspiracy theorist. Your not going to get much through to them.....but on the flip side there are several Pat fans on here that are just the opposite and could see a blue shirt and call it pink their homerism is so strong. We even have some that have changed their position from innocent, to perhaps guilty, to the Colts did it, to guilty but it didn't mean anything, back to innocent etc etc. I agree there is little doubt no two people will see the same thing from this incident. That said there are way way way too much circumstancial evidence to not see that some shady stuff was being done. Enough for me to say wrong doing was done....not so much for me to think this affected the games much but it was enough to warrent a stiff penalty for messing around with the integrity of the game. I just think overall Tom handled this horribly and it would have been a pimple on the face of his career that would have been photoshoped out in the senior picture and now this is turning into a giant piece of green in his immaculate smile that isn't going to be so easy to wash out.

[ricker182]

Is Kraft still expecting an apology from the NFL?

[dw49]

I'm just saying what I think.

 

 

You just happened to nail it.

[dynasty13]

Seriously? Pats fans have spent all this time on the Colts board -- and you're welcome here -- talking about how Colts fans aren't objective, including statements like "only a fool would think that" and "if you had an objective bone in your body," etc., and now you're * off? This would be tragic if it wasn't so hilarious. Consider who I was responding to and that poster's previous comments before you get so huffy.

I don't actually hate the Patriots. I have barely any respect for them as an organization, especially after this whole situation, but I don't hate them. That cause for a blanket dismissal of the opinion of anyone who is a Colts fan is simply inadmissible. Sorry. As a matter of fact, if anyone were to be lacking in objectivity, it would be Patriots fans before Colts fans. You say I need to prove my objectivity; you prove yours first.

In that same vein, I haven't accused people in the media of Patriots bias, at least not in the name of dismissing their opinion. The only time that is even an issue for me is when the Patriots accuse Wells of being partial, then throw up a website with research and a rebuttal sponsored by one of Kraft's business partners. When I have dismissed statements or opinions of anyone, it's been on the basis of their conclusions not making sense. For example, the "report" this morning that the NFL told the Pats to suspend McNally and Jastremski (which has since been refuted by the NFL), which just didn't stand up to scrutiny. I didn't accuse Schefter of having a Patriots bias. I simply said that what he's presenting doesn't make sense, and I said why it doesn't make sense.

You keep relying on this 'everyone hates the Pats' reasoning for why people believe they cheated, and it's just not as strong as you think. You say 'even if the report had said Brady probably didn't know...' but the report said he probably did know. And your answer? Do you say "I'm biased, so my opinion doesn't really hold weight here"? Do you say "Damn, the report makes a compelling case against the Pats"? No, you come to a Colts site and accuse everyone here of being biased, as if you're not.

We're all fans of one thing or another. Let's stop pretending that any of us is free from bias, especially in this regard. When you start throwing this out -- like Bad Morty did in response to a simple question, and like you're doing now -- it makes it look like you're running from the basic facts that we call can see, biased or not. McNally, the texts referencing Brady, "the deflator," the bathroom, the suspensions, etc., in addition to the fact that the Patriots footballs were below specs, it's plenty to reach a conclusion about what happened. I've been more than willing to go back and forth on this nonsense, but when it comes down to "you're biased!" I lose interest. That's a very weak and very transparent deflection.

You need me to prove my objectivity? Look, I'm a Patriots fan and I've been in this board for a decade...if you or anyone else can reference even 5 posts in my 10 years here where I have gloated or in any way acted like the opposing fans who made the old IndyStar board unreadable in the early 2000s then I'll pack my bag and never post here again. When Spygate happened I was one of the few here that admitted my embarrassment and spoke openly about how let down I was. When the Colts lost to the Saints in 2009 I was here backing your fanbase off the ledge. I never posted in the Irsay arrest thread and I have always tended to stick to the NFL General section.

From the beginning of this deflation issue I have said that it was clear something funny happened, but the report stopped short of proving Brady's level of involvement. I think that's a pretty fair and objective assessment. But what were the responses I got? "No you're wrong you must have a low i.q."..."What's in the water up there"..."You don't understand logic"..."You support cheaters and murderers".

So excuse me for then going on the defensive...but even then all I did was play devils advocate and present possibilities. I never defended the action, just asked why this possible explanation or that possible explanation was just being blindly pushed aside. I've been more than willing to admit that the evidence that some funny business went on was pretty damning, but not a single one of you even came close to admitting that the report had holes. Not a single one of you even came close to understanding how Patriots fans could possibly have the audacity to question. That is what I've found frustrating...We have all been treated like we were trying to disprove gravity or something and I'm sorry but whether you want to believe it or not, the report did leave room to question.

You all have your opinions and that's great, but strength in numbers does not mean you are automatically right. It may be more probably than not that you are, but that doesn't make my opinion about another possibility any less legitimate. And as long as something is possible, maybe not probable but possible, then you have to accept it as an option. Every single one of you has refused...so don't lecture me on objectivity.

[Yehoodi]

How do you know what was discussed as a possible penalty for spygate? How do you know it wasn't possibly going to be multiple picks and suspensions for Belicheck etc. Maybe they DID get a lesser penalty. I do see inconsistancies with how the Pats were dealt with but the cover up and not providing evidence is what most of the penalties are for imo. Had Brady cooperated etc I believe the pats and Brady both get hit with a fine. I think the POINT the Pats should take....is DON'T break rules. Don't come close to breaking the rules....or perhaps how I try to live my life which is to obstain from all APPERANCES of evil. When Brady and the QBs came to the league to use their own balls the league complied....how hard would it have been for Brady to ask the league to have the balls at 12.5 psi for game day? If he would have worked with the league this never would have happened. Instead he took a short cut and had tweedle dee and twiddle dumb pull off the stupidest scheme I've ever seen....all because they didn't do things the right way.

 

We may never know until someone speaks out but the guy went into a bathroom he said....that if I'm correct didn't even have a urinal so everyone is left to believe whatever they like about what happened....and when the balls came back underinflated...so much so that even past weather conditions it left the investigator no choice but to rule that human tampering had occured. The benefit I think is small....the incident is just so beyond stupid....but the lying and cover up....reeks. Handled in a different manner with a different organization etc...this blows over and fines are handed out. The severity of the penalties are proportional to the cover up and manner in which the organization and employees have not cooperated with the league. Consequences thus compounded.

 

Regarding your Spygate points.  Not sure when if ever has the league turned over documents or other evidence for the public to review for its consumption.  Can you think of any investigation in the 70 plus years of the league it handed over the file just so folks can look at the file?  This is not the US Government and the Right to Know, please.    The guy makes a finding that we violated a rule and you want to see the tapes.  Have you ever asked to look at the evidence for any other offense committed by any other team or player?  no, so why start now? 

 

Well I am not sure how anyone can impose a fine larger than the greatest fine do date (then) for Spygate.  its not like it was just a 50K fine or something, then I would agree with your point.  Heck as reference look at the Falcons this year, two years of pumping up crowd noise and they only get a 5th rounder.  Most folks would agree that crowd noise can a have an effect on the opponent. just ask any manning fan his/her opinion of the first plan of SB 48.  Right?    So if two years of crowd noise is only worth a 5th rounder, what is 7 years of taping signals worth? Right?.  Both first time offenders and both handled over the evidence.  So for me based on what the Falcons were dolled out this year, I think what happened to the pats in '07 plenty covers things.  And we both know that when manning runs his offense he wants the crowd to be quiet, but he does not ask his coaches to hide behind a curtain to give out signals.   

 

And yes we really do not know until that guy comes forward and speaks out.  Yes based on the numbers recorded by the refs at halftime things look like they went beyond temperature effects, but for me I am not so ready to buy that the pats did not tamper with the balls any more than if they provided underinflated balls to begin with knowing that would get through, both of which I have always felt was a violation of a NFL rule.

 

My issues on the matter, as I mentioned in a long post to Granz earlier, was the fact that regardless of how the pats had the balls underinflated (if not explained by temp and water) pre or post inspection, the balls were in the hands of the refs 50-70 times a game.  Its not like a bat, hockey stick, golf club or ball, to some extent a baseball, all of which are something that does not get in the hands of the ref where someone can say, hey you got away with using a sporting tool that was hidden from the refs.  What is troubling for me is that the refs, and the opponents too, get their hands on the balls the pats play with, so on that level the affected tool was out in the open and handled by the refs.  And we go from 7 years of no one saying anything to the highest fine in NFL history without at least a warning or complaint I find troubling.  And again I harken back to the Minn/Carolina game when the balls were out in the open and they just get a warning, and folks claim that it was out it in the open.  Well so were the pats balls out in the open, but yet no one seems to get this point.     

[Yehoodi]

 

Or you can go by this yehoodi.......

 

 

The reports from ESPN on Outside the Lines and NFL Live and NFL Insiders....

 

 

 

-- That Kraft didn't find the level of support from the other owners he thought he would....

 

-- That other owners reminded him that the reason Goodell has the power he does is that he -- Kraft -- helped make it so.

 

-- That challenging the league in court was very bad for the NFL.    And that a challenge to the league weakens the office of the Commissioner which is NOT in anyone's interest.

 

-- That other owners have accepted their penalties for their teams (Cleveland and Atlanta most recently) and didn't fight back even if they didn't like it.

 

-- That the idea of Kraft compromising on his team so that Brady could get a reduced suspension might happen,  but no one on any of the three shows thought it was a slam dunk.    They thought it was possible.   But no one thought the suspension would be eliminated.    Any who thought it would be reduced thought it would go to two games.   

 

-- The NFLPA says it is still going forward with their appeal on behalf of Brady.....

 

I'll update more if I learn more.....

 

Interesting day.....

 

p.s. --  within the last 24 hours the Pats floated the idea that the reason they suspended the two equipment guys is because the NFL advised them to do so.    The NFL has denied that.

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I for the most part agree with these points.  There is no right or wrong answer on this matter.  Surely like I mentioned earlier if one hands out a fine of three first rounders for a 50k penalty then I can see how one would want to sue.  both sides the commish and the effected team have to weigh things.  the commish with an absolute power and needs to wheeled that with respect and an owner understanding for the good of the league not to get too upset if his team get hits as time others will get hit too. 

 

My guess is Kraft likely thought along the same lines I have in my thoughts in this thread and that the penalty was a surprise.

[Yehoodi]

 

 

Given that back drop, and no warnings nor complaints, and the fact that our balls at home games were on the field for the refs and other players to touch, grab and feel some 50-70 times per game in all of those home games since 2006, 9 years or 144 games or some 8600 touches in 9 years and no one noticed or said anything?  Its not like a curved stick in hockey (which only carries a 2 minute minor penalty btw), or a golf ball, or baseball bat, all of which are things the opponent and refs will not see as readily as the same is not touched by them, footballs on the other hand are touched and grabbed all of the time by the refs and on occasion an opponent.

 

 

 

correction 72 games and 4300 touches

[Moose Of Woe]

 

 

Given that back drop, and no warnings nor complaints, and the fact that our balls at home games were on the field for the refs and other players to touch, grab and feel some 50-70 times per game in all of those home games since 2006, 9 years or 144 games or some 8600 touches in 9 years and no one noticed or said anything?

D'Qwell Jackson did.

[wig]

They'd accept it if it was proven...

It's pretty simply actually.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[dynasty13]

D'Qwell Jackson did.

False.

He said he didn't notice anything weird about the ball.

[Superman]

You need me to prove my objectivity? Look, I'm a Patriots fan and I've been in this board for a decade...if you or anyone else can reference even 5 posts in my 10 years here where I have gloated or in any way acted like the opposing fans who made the old IndyStar board unreadable in the early 2000s then I'll pack my bag and never post here again. When Spygate happened I was one of the few here that admitted my embarrassment and spoke openly about how let down I was. When the Colts lost to the Saints in 2009 I was here backing your fanbase off the ledge. I never posted in the Irsay arrest thread and I have always tended to stick to the NFL General section.

From the beginning of this deflation issue I have said that it was clear something funny happened, but the report stopped short of proving Brady's level of involvement. I think that's a pretty fair and objective assessment. But what were the responses I got? "No you're wrong you must have a low i.q."..."What's in the water up there"..."You don't understand logic"..."You support cheaters and murderers".

So excuse me for then going on the defensive...but even then all I did was play devils advocate and present possibilities. I never defended the action, just asked why this possible explanation or that possible explanation was just being blindly pushed aside. I've been more than willing to admit that the evidence that some funny business went on was pretty damning, but not a single one of you even came close to admitting that the report had holes. Not a single one of you even came close to understanding how Patriots fans could possibly have the audacity to question. That is what I've found frustrating...We have all been treated like we were trying to disprove gravity or something and I'm sorry but whether you want to believe it or not, the report did leave room to question.

You all have your opinions and that's great, but strength in numbers does not mean you are automatically right. It may be more probably than not that you are, but that doesn't make my opinion about another possibility any less legitimate. And as long as something is possible, maybe not probable but possible, then you have to accept it as an option. Every single one of you has refused...so don't lecture me on objectivity.

 

Just because you're not a tool doesn't mean you're objective. (Impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, nonpartisan, disinterested, neutral, uninvolved, detached...) I know very well how long you've been around, and I'm very aware of your track record. I'll vouch for you any day against partisan Colts fans. But you're not objective. You are a fan of the team that's getting its butt kicked right now.

 

Neither am I. I'm not claiming to be. As I said before, we're all fans; objectivity is diametric to fandom in most cases. The Patriots are the Colts' nemesis. I'm not acting like I'm entirely divested in this or any other matter, because I'm not. But Pats fans dismissing the Wells report for supposed bias, then parroting back wellsreportcontext.com, when it's driven by one of Kraft's business partners is, well, hypocritical.

 

Again, I'm not the one who brought this up. It was Bad Morty's implication that I'm first of all a fool, and second unable to clearly understand basic facts because of a lack of objectivity. It's bogus, and I said so. You hop in like "Player 3 has entered the game!" and take umbrage at a comment that wasn't even directed at you. Like I said, consider who I was responding to before you get * off about it, unless you're here to defend Bad Morty's honor. If so, good luck with that. It's incredible that you'd say not to lecture you about objectivity, when I'm the one saying that it doesn't matter. I just wish Pats fans would stop bringing it up, as it's a red herring. No one is objective. I'm not lecturing you, I just don't want to hear about it anymore. It's a weak deflection.

 

And if you just want to argue against this broad generalization of how Colts fans have responded, pick someone else. I'm not interested, just like you're not here to tell me about how AM and Bad Morty and the others who have been entirely insufferable are the very personification of good posters on a rival message board. 

 

You say you're being treated like you're trying to disprove gravity... basic facts are stubborn. 2+2=4. As another poster said, if the forecast says it's going to rain tonight, and you come outside tomorrow morning and everything is wet, you conclude that it rained. All the circumstantial evidence in this situation suggest, as you said, some funny business went on, and it was the Pats that carried it out. The texts messages, the balls disappearing, the Pats suspending those two guys... those are basic, stubborn facts. You might as well be trying to disprove gravity.

 

I'm not sure why it matters that something is possible if it's not probable, especially when we have a far more probable conclusion. We make decisions and draw conclusions based on probability all the time, but now we're supposed to extend the benefit of the doubt? But fine, I'll admit, there is a possibility that everything that happened with footballs and air pressure is just a confluence of presently unknown factors, not an effort by members of the Patriots to cheat. It is possible (I've never said it's not). But I believe we can set that aside as a realistic option because it's not very probable, given the text messages, the balls disappearing, the suspensions, etc. And there's been nothing presented that in any way undermines the conclusion reached by the Wells report that members of the Patriots devised a plot to cheat, and cheated. Not even Ideal Gas Law explains why McNally called himself "the deflator" when he has no official role in game ball preparation.

 

All I'm saying is that I don't think it matters that none of us are objective. We can still see these basic facts, and even you admit that they don't look good for the Patriots. 

[Superman]

False.

He said he didn't notice anything weird about the ball.

 

You're correct. And it doesn't matter. 

[Moose Of Woe]

False.

He said he didn't notice anything weird about the ball.

Ok, you got me on that one.  Edit: It was a member of the equipment staff.

 

The point is, someone noticed.

[dynasty13]

Just because you're not a tool doesn't mean you're objective. (Impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, nonpartisan, disinterested, neutral, uninvolved, detached...) I know very well how long you've been around, and I'm very aware of your track record. I'll vouch for you any day against partisan Colts fans. But you're not objective. You are a fan of the team that's getting its butt kicked right now.

Neither am I. I'm not claiming to be. As I said before, we're all fans; objectivity is diametric to fandom in most cases. The Patriots are the Colts' nemesis. I'm not acting like I'm entirely divested in this or any other matter, because I'm not. But Pats fans dismissing the Wells report for supposed bias, then parroting back wellsreportcontext.com, when it's driven by one of Kraft's business partners is, well, hypocritical.

Again, I'm not the one who brought this up. It was Bad Morty's implication that I'm first of all a fool, and second unable to clearly understand basic facts because of a lack of objectivity. It's bogus, and I said so. You hop in like "Player 3 has entered the game!" and take umbrage at a comment that wasn't even directed at you. Like I said, consider who I was responding to before you get * off about it, unless you're here to defend Bad Morty's honor. If so, good luck with that. It's incredible that you'd say not to lecture you about objectivity, when I'm the one saying that it doesn't matter. I just wish Pats fans would stop bringing it up, as it's a red herring. No one is objective. I'm not lecturing you, I just don't want to hear about it anymore. It's a weak deflection.

And if you just want to argue against this broad generalization of how Colts fans have responded, pick someone else. I'm not interested, just like you're not here to tell me about how AM and Bad Morty and the others who have been entirely insufferable are the very personification of good posters on a rival message board.

You say you're being treated like you're trying to disprove gravity... basic facts are stubborn. 2+2=4. As another poster said, if the forecast says it's going to rain tonight, and you come outside tomorrow morning and everything is wet, you conclude that it rained. All the circumstantial evidence in this situation suggest, as you said, some funny business went on, and it was the Pats that carried it out. The texts messages, the balls disappearing, the Pats suspending those two guys... those are basic, stubborn facts. You might as well be trying to disprove gravity.

I'm not sure why it matters that something is possible if it's not probable, especially when we have a far more probable conclusion. We make decisions and draw conclusions based on probability all the time, but now we're supposed to extend the benefit of the doubt? But fine, I'll admit, there is a possibility that everything that happened with footballs and air pressure is just a confluence of presently unknown factors, not an effort by members of the Patriots to cheat. It is possible (I've never said it's not). But I believe we can set that aside as a realistic option because it's not very probable, given the text messages, the balls disappearing, the suspensions, etc. And there's been nothing presented that in any way undermines the conclusion reached by the Wells report that members of the Patriots devised a plot to cheat, and cheated. Not even Ideal Gas Law explains why McNally called himself "the deflator" when he has no official role in game ball preparation.

All I'm saying is that I don't think it matters that none of us are objective. We can still see these basic facts, and even you admit that they don't look good for the Patriots.

I think maybe my frustration has been more about what many assume was the level of Brady's involvement. That is where I think most of you are taking the leap and making unfair assumptions...because quite frankly that is where I think the report left the biggest holes. The team punishment is not being appealed, that part is over and as I've said, the evidence was pretty damning that something funny went on and they were punished for it.

Brady's involvement? Literally nothing that even hints that he knew and the suspension was ridiculous. The rain analogy and the fire behind a door analogy that someone else has posted is all fine and good and can be applied to the chain of reasoning that helps show that the balls were deflated because that is based on there being physical evidence where it's easy to draw a conclusion. But this punishment is based purely on the assumption of what someone knows. The only way you can prove what someone knows is if there is an admission or some type of physical evidence showing it...an email of him saying 'do this'...a recording of him talking about it. Something. ANYTHING! There's nothing but speculation.

I'm reacting to the punishment and I find it insane.

[dw49]

I for the most part agree with these points.  There is no right or wrong answer on this matter.  Surely like I mentioned earlier if one hands out a fine of three first rounders for a 50k penalty then I can see how one would want to sue.  both sides the commish and the effected team have to weigh things.  the commish with an absolute power and needs to wheeled that with respect and an owner understanding for the good of the league not to get too upset if his team get hits as time others will get hit too. 

 

My guess is Kraft likely thought along the same lines I have in my thoughts in this thread and that the penalty was a surprise.

 

 

I remember my son being arrested for a bar room fight at a college bar. The state troopers walked in just as he was throwing a harmless punch at a guy that started a fight with him. They roughed him up good and he was tossed in jail. I was furious after driving down and forking over 3K cash to bail him out. Thought about suing the troopers but never did. 

 

About two years later , I thought about this and asked my son if that's really what happened. He broke out laughing and said he couldn't believe I bought that story. The kid was afraid of the consequences and decided to lie to me. We have always beed best friends and he had zero reason to not tell me what really happened.

 

That said , do you think maybe Kraft is realizing that maybe Brady told him a little white one ? 

[OffensivelyPC]

I think maybe my frustration has been more about what many assume was the level of Brady's involvement. That is where I think most of you are taking the leap and making unfair assumptions...because quite frankly that is where I think the report left the biggest holes. The team punishment is not being appealed, that part is over and as I've said, the evidence was pretty damning that something funny went on and they were punished for it.

Brady's involvement? Literally nothing that even hints that he knew and the suspension was ridiculous. The rain analogy and the fire behind a door analogy that someone else has posted is all fine and good and can be applied to the chain of reasoning that helps show that the balls were deflated because that is based on there being physical evidence where it's easy to draw a conclusion. But this punishment is based purely on the assumption of what someone knows. The only way you can prove what someone knows is if there is an admission or some type of physical evidence showing it...an email of him saying 'do this'...a recording of him talking about it. Something. ANYTHING! There's nothing but speculation.

I'm reacting to the punishment and I find it insane.

then it begs the question, because if you are saying there's funny business and saying Brady wasn't involved, them there had to have been so other reason than it was under Brady's direction that can be supported by evidence.

Even then, I don't think it's an unfair "assumption" at all, Brady cared enough about how the footballs petition the league to change the rules about prepping their own footballs. numerous qbs have talked about how they have had their footballs done.

[dw49]

I think maybe my frustration has been more about what many assume was the level of Brady's involvement. That is where I think most of you are taking the leap and making unfair assumptions...because quite frankly that is where I think the report left the biggest holes. The team punishment is not being appealed, that part is over and as I've said, the evidence was pretty damning that something funny went on and they were punished for it.

Brady's involvement? Literally nothing that even hints that he knew and the suspension was ridiculous. The rain analogy and the fire behind a door analogy that someone else has posted is all fine and good and can be applied to the chain of reasoning that helps show that the balls were deflated because that is based on there being physical evidence where it's easy to draw a conclusion. But this punishment is based purely on the assumption of what someone knows. The only way you can prove what someone knows is if there is an admission or some type of physical evidence showing it...an email of him saying 'do this'...a recording of him talking about it. Something. ANYTHING! There's nothing but speculation.

I'm reacting to the punishment and I find it insane.

 

 

The real problem here is simply this.....

 

"Brady's involvement? Literally nothing that even hints that he knew and the suspension was ridiculous"

 

 

 

 

You really believe that and to most of us that defies all logic. 

[dw49]

then it begs the question, because if you are saying there's funny business and saying Brady wasn't involved, them there had to have been so other reason than it was under Brady's direction that can be supported by evidence.

Even then, I don't think it's an unfair "assumption" at all, Brady cared enough about how the footballs petition the league to change the rules about prepping their own footballs. numerous qbs have talked about how they have had their footballs done.

 

 

My God , you don't even mention the fact that Brady wouldn't let his agent look at his phone. Nor do you mention the text that incriminate him on the 2 goofballs phone. But what's the use of going over all that again. You're dealing with people that think there is zero evidence to implicate Brady. I find it incredulous.

[Superman]

I think maybe my frustration has been more about what many assume was the level of Brady's involvement. That is where I think most of you are taking the leap and making unfair assumptions...because quite frankly that is where I think the report left the biggest holes. The team punishment is not being appealed, that part is over and as I've said, the evidence was pretty damning that something funny went on and they were punished for it.

Brady's involvement? Literally nothing that even hints that he knew and the suspension was ridiculous. The rain analogy and the fire behind a door analogy that someone else has posted is all fine and good and can be applied to the chain of reasoning that helps show that the balls were deflated because that is based on there being physical evidence where it's easy to draw a conclusion. But this punishment is based purely on the assumption of what someone knows. The only way you can prove what someone knows is if there is an admission or some type of physical evidence showing it...an email of him saying 'do this'...a recording of him talking about it. Something. ANYTHING! There's nothing but speculation.

I'm reacting to the punishment and I find it insane.

 

There's less evidence that Brady knew. It comes down to the text messages. The whole exchange about Brady telling Jastremski that he knows it's stressful for McNally, right after McNally says he's going to make the next ball a balloon, that's pretty compelling, IMO, and points to Brady being aware that McNally was doing something to the footballs. And again, McNally had no official role in game ball prep. Why would Brady bring him up and reference him "trying to get them done"?

 

I'll tell you what's less compelling is the Patriots rebuttal that the "him" in that reference was referring to a completely unrelated matter. In another instance, the Patriots included text messages that weren't in the Wells report to provide context. In this case, they did not, even though they argue that this pattern of Jastremski switching topics abruptly while texting was obvious in other instances. Then they say it wasn't talking about Brady because Brady said he wouldn't have been concerned with McNally's feelings anyways. Offering up a really weak rebuttal like that just drives me more toward the Wells report's conclusion.

 

No, it's not proven beyond a doubt. But the rebuttals offered now aren't very strong.

[Yehoodi]

D'Qwell Jackson did.

 

exactly . . . . an indication and proof that others could of done the same but interesting there is dead silent on the matter, correct? . . . in a quite moment at home and off the internet has it ever occurred this interesting fact of this dead silence on the matter from the refs, the league and folks that have pick off Brady at home, what does that silence might mean and the fact that the balls are out in the open for anyone to catch the pats in the act at any given moment.   Do you find that curious.  Does that sound to you like the most heinous thing in the history of the NFL?   Perhaps no one cared, perhaps pats have never done this prior to Jan 2015, and so on.

 

I just find the sudden concern about inflation in balls to be interesting that is all.. 

 

And yes in hockey a player playing with a illegal stick is a 2 minute minor penalty.   Whatever.      

[ColtsBlueFL]

Posted Today, 06:36 PM

Yehoodi, on 19 May 2015 - 6:50 PM, said:

 

 

Given that back drop, and no warnings nor complaints, and the fact that our balls at home games were on the field for the refs and other players to touch, grab and feel some 50-70 times per game in all of those home games since 2006, 9 years or 144 games or some 8600 touches in 9 years and no one noticed or said anything?  Its not like a curved stick in hockey (which only carries a 2 minute minor penalty btw), or a golf ball, or baseball bat, all of which are things the opponent and refs will not see as readily as the same is not touched by them, footballs on the other hand are touched and grabbed all of the time by the refs and on occasion an opponent.

 

 

 

correction 72 games and 4300 touches

 

To be fair, you have to understand that not everything 'known' in the league has leaked for public consumption. To wit:  Grigson include with his letter to the NFL prior to the AFCCG, a letter from Colts Equipment Manager Sean Sullivan.  Here is an excerpt from that note-

 

"As far as the gameballs are concerned it is well known around the league that after the Patriots gameballs are checked by the officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the patriots will let out some air with a ball needle because their quarterback likes a smaller football so he can grip it better, it would be great if someone would be able to check the air in the game balls as the game goes on so that they don't get an illegal advantage."

 

So they 'knew' they were soft, and it was done after the Ref had checked and marked them.  What they didn't know was how, exactly. And he implies (all?) other teams around the league know this, too.

 

Also known is so many teams complain to the league about so many ways they feel their opponent is cheating, that it sounds like buzzing bees in the ears of League front office. I'm sure that is why the fairly cavalier attitude to Grigson letter.

 

I discount non QB's noticing differences.  They aren't concerned thus attention is not on that. QB's are very conscious of feel.  If it feels right, all of their attention is diverted to the task at hand.  If it doesn't 'feel' right some of that focus is not on the D, receivers and progressions, but a sliver on why the ball doesn't feel like the ones they 'turned in' to the Refs pre-game.

[dynasty13]

My God , you don't even mention the fact that Brady wouldn't let his agent look at his phone. Nor do you mention the text that incriminate him on the 2 goofballs phone. But what's the use of going over all that again. You're dealing with people that think there is zero evidence to implicate Brady. I find it incredulous.

I've already laid out what I think could have happened to counter the 'evidence' implying Brady's involvement...and to be honest it's perfectly reasonable and you can go back and reread if you need a refresher. Clearly you won't accept anything other than guilt as even a possibility and that's fine...you must either a) have been there and have knowledge that no one else does, or b) think that because your son lied to you 10 years ago about a bar fight you know how all this works.

Regardless...Brady has appealed and I honestly believe his suspension will be reduced if not eliminated. Time will tell.

[The Old Crow]

Guilty as charged. We are all awaiting your apology that you demanded of all of us, Mr. Kraft !

[dw49]

I've already laid out what I think could have happened to counter the 'evidence' implying Brady's involvement...and to be honest it's perfectly reasonable and you can go back and reread if you need a refresher. Clearly you won't accept anything other than guilt as even a possibility and that's fine...you must either a) have been there and have knowledge that no one else does, or b) think that because your son lied to you 10 years ago about a bar fight you know how all this works.

Regardless...Brady has appealed and I honestly believe his suspension will be reduced if not eliminated. Time will tell.

 

 

There really is no sense talking to you. I never said there was absolutely no chance that Brady knew nothing. What I believe is that the evidence points to the opposite . The problem is you are the one that is being ridiculous... see below. 

 

"Brady's involvement? Literally nothing that even hints that he knew and the suspension was ridiculous."

[dw49]

I've already laid out what I think could have happened to counter the 'evidence' implying Brady's involvement...and to be honest it's perfectly reasonable and you can go back and reread if you need a refresher. Clearly you won't accept anything other than guilt as even a possibility and that's fine...you must either a) have been there and have knowledge that no one else does, or b) think that because your son lied to you 10 years ago about a bar fight you know how all this works.

Regardless...Brady has appealed and I honestly believe his suspension will be reduced if not eliminated. Time will tell.

 

Oh... and BTW.. Ive said numerous times this will be reduced to 2 games. Pretty mjuch how the appeal system works . Hopefully a bunch of bafoons will not start posting that this exonerates him. 

[OffensivelyPC]

I've already laid out what I think could have happened to counter the 'evidence' implying Brady's involvement...and to be honest it's perfectly reasonable and you can go back and reread if you need a refresher. Clearly you won't accept anything other than guilt as even a possibility and that's fine...you must either a) have been there and have knowledge that no one else does, or b) think that because your son lied to you 10 years ago about a bar fight you know how all this works.

Regardless...Brady has appealed and I honestly believe his suspension will be reduced if not eliminated. Time will tell.

Not sure what you think could have happened was, never saw it or don't remember and I'm not going to go look it up on your behalf.  Look, the bottom line is, if you don't like the Wells report because the evidence is based on "assumptions", then all yo ucan really do is go off the Patriots rebuttal, which was hardly convincing.  Mostly for a lot of the reasons discussed, but Supe's post above is pretty succinct. 

[dw49]

Posted Today, 06:36 PM

Yehoodi, on 19 May 2015 - 6:50 PM, said:

 

 

To be fair, you have to understand that not everything 'known' in the league has leaked for public consumption. To wit:  Grigson include with his letter to the NFL prior to the AFCCG, a letter from Colts Equipment Manager Sean Sullivan.  Here is an excerpt from that note-

 

"As far as the gameballs are concerned it is well known around the league that after the Patriots gameballs are checked by the officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the patriots will let out some air with a ball needle because their quarterback likes a smaller football so he can grip it better, it would be great if someone would be able to check the air in the game balls as the game goes on so that they don't get an illegal advantage."

 

So they 'knew' they were soft, and it was done after the Ref had checked and marked them.  What they didn't know was how, exactly. And he implies (all?) other teams around the league know this, too.

 

Also known is so many teams complain to the league about so many ways they feel their opponent is cheating, that it sounds like buzzing bees in the ears of League front office. I'm sure that is why the fairly cavalier attitude to Grigson letter.

 

I discount non QB's noticing differences.  They aren't concerned thus attention is not on that. QB's are very conscious of feel.  If it feels right, all of their attention is diverted to the task at hand.  If it doesn't 'feel' right some of that focus is not on the D, receivers and progressions, but a sliver on why the ball doesn't feel like the ones they 'turned in' to the Refs pre-game.

 

 

What a normal intelligent human being would assume is that Grigson did not make this up and did not make that statement without basis to make it. Notice how they shy away from addressing things like that letter.

[OffensivelyPC]

My God , you don't even mention the fact that Brady wouldn't let his agent look at his phone. Nor do you mention the text that incriminate him on the 2 goofballs phone. But what's the use of going over all that again. You're dealing with people that think there is zero evidence to implicate Brady. I find it incredulous.

There's lots of reasons that someone could think Brady was involved, and apparently there's lots of reasons to think he was not.  I think to most people, it would take a whole heck of a lot of coincidences to believe Brady had no involvement.  I mean, I've trafficked the Patriots forums and havent' seen some of the things suggested on these forums by Pats fans.

[dw49]

Not sure what you think could have happened was, never saw it or don't remember and I'm not going to go look it up on your behalf.  Look, the bottom line is, if you don't like the Wells report because the evidence is based on "assumptions", then all yo ucan really do is go off the Patriots rebuttal, which was hardly convincing.  Mostly for a lot of the reasons discussed, but Supe's post above is pretty succinct. 

 

 

 

• succinct - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

  www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/succinct

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  Succinct, meaning "short and to the point," is from the Latin succingere, "to tuck up." Often after you write a long essay, you realize you probably could have said  ...

   
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