NFL/Patriots Deflategate compromise UPDATE: Pats will not appeal

[dynasty13]

 

How is it not?    

 

Did you see the press conference? In no way did he come even close to 'admitting' anything..in fact he even went as far to say that he is reluctantly accepting it because there are only two options: to end it, or keep it going...and the last thing he wants to do is keep it going because of the way the whole thing was handled from the beginning.

 

It is to everyone but Patriots fans.

 

You honestly believe that everyone other than Patriots fans thinks he just admitted guilt? He has been very outspoken about it and at no point has tried to hide his feelings on it.

[Yehoodi]

Yes fessing up would have reduced the penalties. Had Brady fessed up he would have took his token fine and all of this could have been avoided. Did the Vikings try to cover up what they did? The big hammer came down on the not cooperating, not the deflated footballs.

 

I understand your point about trying to impose a separate penalty for non cooperation.  There is no argument from my end.  My only point was that in 2007 when we were found to be taping, in violating of the rules in Goodell's opinion as to what is meant by "playing in a game", all the NFL had was that one tape violation.  BB through his correspondence with Goodell provided the evidence that he had been doing it since 2000, it just came down whether or not the rule meant the instant game or future games.   

 

So in 2007 all the NFL had was one violation, we provided voluntarily other occurrences and then got a 2x4 knocked over our head.   So yah I hear yah about being forthright, but we as pats fans and team have done things both ways, we tell them everything and get smoked, we then tell them to prove their case and still get smoked.  

 

So when some talk to me about "coming clean" as a part of the not getting a higher fine, I just are making a point coming clean does not always work in your favor.   

[pgt_rob]

Did you see the press conference? In no way did he come even close to 'admitting' anything..in fact he even went as far to say that he is reluctantly accepting it because there are only two options: to end it, or keep it going...and the last thing he wants to do is keep it going because of the way the whole thing was handled from the beginning.

 

 

You honestly believe that everyone other than Patriots fans thinks he just admitted guilt? He has been very outspoken about it and at no point has tried to hide his feelings on it.

 

Sounds like there was a backdoor plea-bargin to me. Kraft knew it would only get worse and is best to accept punishment for cheating.

[Superman]

There are a lot more than u that are torn.

 

For what it is worth, "breaking news" here was that Kraft standing down has nothing to do with Brady's situation.  We see how things pan out.

 

I am not at all happy with Kraft standing down as I wanted him to fight this issue.  However, I do respect the fact that he did not want to break up the league and essentially sue his other owners, I think only Al Davis has done this in the past.  The NFL puts the owners in a tough situation, once one owner sues then what happens down the road with other owners.  If all owners don't sue then the league can maintain cohesiveness by knowing other owners will not sue. 

 

I was not happy with the fine imposed, but it is what it is.

 

Regarding Brady we will see how that things pans out.  Brady always had a fight regardless if the pats were still involved with their appeals.  Although the Wells report exonerated the pats, there are still accountable, imo, vicariously liable for actions of their employees not matter how low on the food chain.

 

For me Brady has always been another matter, all the Wells report found was that he was "generally aware" of the situation.  I think it is tough to suspend someone for this type of action.  Its one thing with the pats as its their employee, but Brady for me sits on a different footing.

 

It will be interesting to see what Brady does.  For me I hope it takes it the full nine yards and we can get fuller picture beyond the Wells Report.  time will tell.  

 

So you don't think McNally deflated the footballs in the bathroom?

[Yehoodi]

Sure they lost their pick, but they got the 49ers pick via trade so they didn't lose much. Had the Niners pick been taken from the Patriots then you could complain. I don't feel like they were punished at all for Spygate.

 

We still lost a pick, we had two first round draft picks.  We had that SF pick cause we gave up something for it.  We did not get it for free or in some lottery.   It cost us some draft stock or player I frankly forget how we got it, but we got it by giving up something.

[Swan Ronson]

Now if Tom will just take his medicine like a good boy, everyone can move on from this sillyness.

[Yehoodi]

So you don't think McNally deflated the footballs in the bathroom?

 

Possibly but I doubt it. 

 

For me anything that happened in the AFCCG, if anything, happened before the game.   Meaning the pats handed balls in that were at a level that caused the results in the Wells Report.   I won't get into my thoughts on the Wells Report and science, but if the balls were at some point at room temperature were out of spec it happened before the pats gave the balls to the refs.  Something btw I mentioned in January I think is a violation of a rule, just not the one in question here. 

[coltsfanmilyman]

There are a lot more than u that are torn.

For what it is worth, "breaking news" here was that Kraft standing down has nothing to do with Brady's situation. We see how things pan out.

I am not at all happy with Kraft standing down as I wanted him to fight this issue. However, I do respect the fact that he did not want to break up the league and essentially sue his other owners, I think only Al Davis has done this in the past. The NFL puts the owners in a tough situation, once one owner sues then what happens down the road with other owners. If all owners don't sue then the league can maintain cohesiveness by knowing other owners will not sue.

I was not happy with the fine imposed, but it is what it is.

Regarding Brady we will see how that things pans out. Brady always had a fight regardless if the pats were still involved with their appeals. Although the Wells report exonerated the pats, there are still accountable, imo, vicariously liable for actions of their employees not matter how low on the food chain.

For me Brady has always been another matter, all the Wells report found was that he was "generally aware" of the situation. I think it is tough to suspend someone for this type of action. Its one thing with the pats as its their employee, but Brady for me sits on a different footing.

It will be interesting to see what Brady does. For me I hope it takes it the full nine yards and we can get fuller picture beyond the Wells Report. time will tell.

I'm sorry but your comment of the NFL putting the owners in a bad situation is just a feeble attempt to deflect. The entire fault of this lies at the feet of the Patriots. It is there fault for the negative reputation they have created for themselves. From spygate, to the insane formations, to now this. When you play with fire, you are bound to get burned. Play within the rules and these things are perceived differently. Nobody to blame but themselves.

[crazycolt1]

I understand your point about trying to impose a separate penalty for non cooperation.  There is no argument from my end.  My only point was that in 2007 when we were found to be taping, in violating of the rules in Goodell's opinion as to what is meant by "playing in a game", all the NFL had was that one tape violation.  BB through his correspondence with Goodell provided the evidence that he had been doing it since 2000, it just came down whether or not the rule meant the instant game or future games.   

 

So in 2007 all the NFL had was one violation, we provided voluntarily other occurrences and then got a 2x4 knocked over our head.   So yah I hear yah about being forthright, but we as pats fans and team have done things both ways, we tell them everything and get smoked, we then tell them to prove their case and still get smoked.  

 

So when some talk to me about "coming clean" as a part of the not getting a higher fine, I just are making a point coming clean does not always work in your favor.   

I understand that very clear. I have no problem with your point of view. The strange thing about what happened in 2007 was Goodell destroying the tapes. In reality all that did was put more suspicion on the matter. People naturally wanted to see exactly what was on those tapes and by destroying them put doubt in a lot of peoples minds about a lot of things. So much it is still brought up today. On a personal thought I think had Goodell made those tapes public the Patriots wouldn't have had to hear about it so much.

[esh318]

I just archived this. That is the absolute, without a doubt, _ B E S T _ post I've been privileged to see! Fantastic!

Thank you, esh318!

lie la lie, lie la lie la la la la lie! Priceless!

 

Thank you!

[Yehoodi]

I'm sorry but your comment of the NFL putting the owners in a bad situation is just a feeble attempt to deflect. The entire fault of this lies at the feet of the Patriots. It is there fault for the negative reputation they have created for themselves. From spygate, to the insane formations, to now this. When you play with fire, you are bound to get burned. Play within the rules and these things are perceived differently. Nobody to blame but themselves.

 

lets see how things turn out with Brady's fine and then we see a bigger portion of this picture.

[Bad Morty]

So you don't think McNally deflated the footballs in the bathroom?

you'd have to be a fool to believe that. It's all right there in the Wells report...the balls measured by the gauge Walt Coleman recalled using all fell within the expected range of natural deflation. That didn't fit the story that was being spun, so suddenly Coleman's recollections, which Wells takes as gospel in every other instance, are judged to be incorrect. When you use the measurements off the other gauge, the balls are tenths of a pound shy of the natural range. It's not even remotely plausible to think that there was an organized scheme to take a few 10ths of a pound of air pressure out of footballs. The balls weren't tampered with.  

[Yehoodi]

I understand that very clear. I have no problem with your point of view. The strange thing about what happened in 2007 was Goodell destroying the tapes. In reality all that did was put more suspicion on the matter. People naturally wanted to see exactly what was on those tapes and by destroying them put doubt in a lot of peoples minds about a lot of things. So much it is still brought up today. On a personal thought I think had Goodell made those tapes public the Patriots wouldn't have had to hear about it so much.

 

I hear yah.  I was never really concerned what was on the tapes or whether they were destroyed.  The pats were found to be in violation of rule preventing the video taping of defensive signals.  As an adjudication was made that the tapes proved that, the viewing of them was moot.  When a court find a person guilty of possession of cocaine there is no need for the public to see the evidence to make sure its cocaine.  Its moot.  

[OffensivelyPC]

Did you see the press conference? In no way did he come even close to 'admitting' anything..in fact he even went as far to say that he is reluctantly accepting it because there are only two options: to end it, or keep it going...and the last thing he wants to do is keep it going because of the way the whole thing was handled from the beginning.

But vis a vis the league, he accepted the punishment, therefore accepted its findings as it pertains to the Patriots.  That's textbook admission of guilt.  When you dispute guilt but the fight is not worth the costs of proceeding, you settle.  

[crazycolt1]

you'd have to be a fool to believe that. It's all right there in the Wells report...the balls measured by the gauge Walt Coleman recalled using all fell within the expected range of natural deflation. That didn't fit the story that was being spun, so suddenly Coleman's recollections, which Wells takes as gospel in every other instance, are judged to be incorrect. When you use the measurements off the other gauge, the balls are tenths of a pound shy of the natural range. It's not even remotely plausible to think that there was an organized scheme to take a few 10ths of a pound of air pressure out of footballs. The balls weren't tampered with.  

sorry BM, you would have to be a fool to believe nothing happened. If nothing happened Kraft would have continued with the fight as he should have. Kraft is now back peddling because he wants no part of a trial. Then the two equipment men and Brady's cell phone and records would be brought into court and made to testify. There is the smoking gun.

[pacolts56]

Well....I guess that passes for candor and honesty.

<<<<gameshow buzzer>>>>

[ColtsBlueFL]

I wrote a song about Deflategate yesterday, to the tune of The Boxer by Simon & Garfunkel.

 

 

This deserves to go viral. I shared on my Facebook! 

[-JJ-]

I understand that very clear. I have no problem with your point of view. The strange thing about what happened in 2007 was Goodell destroying the tapes. In reality all that did was put more suspicion on the matter. People naturally wanted to see exactly what was on those tapes and by destroying them put doubt in a lot of peoples minds about a lot of things. So much it is still brought up today. On a personal thought I think had Goodell made those tapes public the Patriots wouldn't have had to hear about it so much.

FWIW- all 6 tapes were up for a very brief time on Fox Glazier and then they were pulled since the NFL was upset they showed all 6.. I happened to be watching TV at the time. After watching the first two it was too boring to continue watching- same thing as what you saw on the jets-pan sideline-pan score board- rinse and repeat:)

 

Even if one didn't see them all- really what else would it show?

[NFLfan]

Hey that is more than the Vikings and Panthers got for violating the same rule. You sound like the voice or reason.

Secretly deflating the footballs after they have been checked and approved is not the same as warming up footballs on the sidelines where everyone can see. Sorry.

[dynasty13]

sorry BM, you would have to be a fool to believe nothing happened. If nothing happened Kraft would have continued with the fight as he should have. Kraft is now back peddling because he wants no part of a trial. Then the two equipment men and Brady's cell phone and records would be brought into court and made to testify. There is the smoking gun.

 

Quite the assumptions you are making...

 

I seriously dont get how anyone could have watched that press conference with Kraft and not thought that he was being sincere. 

[corgi]

We still lost a pick, we had two first round draft picks.  We had that SF pick cause we gave up something for it.  We did not get it for free or in some lottery.   It cost us some draft stock or player I frankly forget how we got it, but we got it by giving up something.

Right, I understand that. They still had a first round pick though, I know they had two but I think I would have more respect for the penalty had they taken both away. Way after the fact and doesn't matter now anyway.

[ColtRider]

And people will still flock to the NFL because the product is great. The league is Teflon.

I agree. No matter the chasm that could ever take place, the magnetic pull of the product seems untouchable when it comes to this game of professional football. It's one of the very few things in this world that constantly seems intriguing to a variety of many, many people. The game itself, is at the very least, a comfortable reclusive way of enjoying a sport that mirrors that dynamic magnetism. Not to say that other sports do not have this to a degree, it's just the NFL possesses this on a much higher level for the masses. I really feel that it is the human-natured spirit of fighting for a cause you believe in and choosing which course (team) that ends in the same goal for everyone ... coming out on top!

[NFLfan]

They were caught in the act, btw, and the fine (warning) was immediately imposed.

Oh btw when we fessed up with Spygate, how did that help us then? We get docketed a 1st round pick whether we fess up or not.

That's the difference. Spygate and Deflategate were secret acts. The warming up of the footballs were done in front of everyone. They were not trying to hide anything.

[dynasty13]

Secretly deflating the footballs after they have been checked and approved is not the same as warming up footballs on the sidelines where everyone can see. Sorry.

 

That's the difference. Spygate and Deflategate were secret acts. The warming up of the footballs were done in front of everyone. They were not trying to hide anything.

 

 

So the issue is more a matter of where the balls were illegally manipulated...not that fact itself that they were?

 

Because if that's the case you're trying to make, then you're essentially not only admitting that other teams do it too...but you're also saying that it's really not a big deal because the other instances just resulted in warnings.

[18Manning]

um....no.

 

Correct, not for Brady as he's still appealing (LOL, I don't mean the attractive appealing). But, for the Pats, this looks like an admission of guilt to some degree (or in the least admitting the evidence gives the appearance of guilt). You can argue against that opinion and say, as Kraft has, "it's not good for the league to carry on with this fight", etc. I'm not alone in that opinion as is obvious if you should peruse the major sports outlets.

 

If I was innocent, or thought my team innocent, I would fight to prove that innocence regardless.

[crazycolt1]

FWIW- all 6 tapes were up for a very brief time on Fox Glazier and then they were pulled since the NFL was upset they showed all 6.. I happened to be watching TV at the time. After watching the first two it was too boring to continue watching- same thing as what you saw on the jets-pan sideline-pan score board- rinse and repeat:)

 

Even if one didn't see them all- really what else would it show?

I know your right. Just the thought of not being able to see them puts some in a frame of mind that there was more. The average Joe wouldn't even know what he was seeing and the illegal part of it.

[Bad Morty]

sorry BM, you would have to be a fool to believe nothing happened. If nothing happened Kraft would have continued with the fight as he should have. Kraft is now back peddling because he wants no part of a trial. Then the two equipment men and Brady's cell phone and records would be brought into court and made to testify. There is the smoking gun.

We'll see...I have a feeling the next shoe to drop here is going to be Brady's suspension getting lifted. This press conference sounded like deal making...I.e "We'll stop demolishing the report Wells produced, you give us back our QB".

[crazycolt1]

Quite the assumptions you are making...

 

I seriously dont get how anyone could have watched that press conference with Kraft and not thought that he was being sincere. 

[ColtRider]

Thank you!

You're welcome. Outta likes. Just as ColtsBlueFL states, it deserves to go viral. I certainly hope it does.

[crazycolt1]

So the issue is more a matter of where the balls were illegally manipulated...not that fact itself that they were?

 

Because if that's the case you're trying to make, then you're essentially not only admitting that other teams do it too...but you're also saying that it's really not a big deal because the other instances just resulted in warnings.

Seriously d13, you need to read the wells report. Warming the footballs in front of everyone including the public camera is not even close to a equipment man taking the footballs when he wasn't suppose to and then disappearing into a bathroom. Then when the officials needed the footballs Mr. Deflator was passing out the balls to the Patriot players. So much so the official was calling for the back up footballs. Big big difference.

[Superman]

you'd have to be a fool to believe that. It's all right there in the Wells report...the balls measured by the gauge Walt Coleman recalled using all fell within the expected range of natural deflation. That didn't fit the story that was being spun, so suddenly Coleman's recollections, which Wells takes as gospel in every other instance, are judged to be incorrect. When you use the measurements off the other gauge, the balls are tenths of a pound shy of the natural range. It's not even remotely plausible to think that there was an organized scheme to take a few 10ths of a pound of air pressure out of footballs. The balls weren't tampered with.  

 

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on "the deflator"...

[18Manning]

We'll see...I have a feeling the next shoe to drop here is going to be Brady's suspension getting lifted. This press conference sounded like deal making...I.e "We'll stop demolishing the report Wells produced, you give us back our QB".

 

I think Brady's suspension would have been amended before this press conference. It's not unusual for a suspension to be reduced regardless of the infraction. "We'll stop demolishing the report Wells produced, you give us back our QB" could just as well been "We'll accept the team punishments, let's not expose any more texts in court". We have not clue how the parties postured.

[Bad Morty]

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on "the deflator"...

absolutely...I think he referred to himself as the "deflator" because he was in charge of deflating the balls.

[Superman]

Possibly but I doubt it. 

 

For me anything that happened in the AFCCG, if anything, happened before the game.   Meaning the pats handed balls in that were at a level that caused the results in the Wells Report.   I won't get into my thoughts on the Wells Report and science, but if the balls were at some point at room temperature were out of spec it happened before the pats gave the balls to the refs.  Something btw I mentioned in January I think is a violation of a rule, just not the one in question here. 

 

You guys crack me up. If the Pats rigged it so the balls would pass inspection, but later lose enough pressure to be comfortable for the game, that's not really any better.

 

Occam's razor.

[Yehoodi]

Secretly deflating the footballs after they have been checked and approved is not the same as warming up footballs on the sidelines where everyone can see. Sorry.

 

Its the same rule . . . check the Wells Report

 

Oh just to you know, any balls that are touched after the initial inspection are in the refs hands about 50-70 times per game after they the balls left the locker room.  

[Yehoodi]

You guys crack me up. If the Pats rigged it so the balls would pass inspection, but later lose enough pressure to be comfortable for the game, that's not really any better.

 

Occam's razor.

 

you missed my point, I don't think the pats rigged anything, if the balls were underinflated at all it was due to the pats handing balls in that were underinflated to start off with at the start of the game.  Again, like I said in Jan. and today, it is still a violation in my book.

[Moose Of Woe]

No, Kraft, no! Take it to court so we can see the phone records! The Patsterisks are innocent, right?

[dynasty13]

Seriously d13, you need to read the wells report. Warming the footballs in front of everyone including the public camera is not even close to a equipment man taking the footballs when he wasn't suppose to and then disappearing into a bathroom. Then when the officials needed the footballs Mr. Deflator was passing out the balls to the Patriot players. So much so the official was calling for the back up footballs. Big big difference.

 

I read the whole thing...that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

 

So if a Patriots employee stood on the sidelines and in plain view let air out of the footballs, that would be worthy of just a warning? By saying that two instances of illegal ball manipulation are not even comparable simply because one was done in the open and one was done secretly, it implies that you believe the end result isn't really a big deal since one instance simply got a warning. It's starting to seem that people are more offended by the possible deception of the act and not the act itself. In the end it sounds like everyone is angry and overly sensitive to the possibility that they were lied to, and not really concerned the integrity of the game.

[Bad Morty]

You guys crack me up. If the Pats rigged it so the balls would pass inspection, but later lose enough pressure to be comfortable for the game, that's not really any better.

 

Occam's razor.

Occam's razor supports the theory that a guy took a bag of footballs into a bathroom to hastily stick a needle into a bunch of footballs risking damaging/rupturing the valve in one of them and being caught red-handed in order to shave a few 10ths of a pound of PSI off them? That makes no sense at all.

[NewColtsFan]

The reports from ESPN on Outside the Lines and NFL Live and NFL Insiders....

 

 

 

-- That Kraft didn't find the level of support from the other owners he thought he would....

 

-- That other owners reminded him that the reason Goodell has the power he does is that he -- Kraft -- helped make it so.

 

-- That challenging the league in court was very bad for the NFL.    And that a challenge to the league weakens the office of the Commissioner which is NOT in anyone's interest.

 

-- That other owners have accepted their penalties for their teams (Cleveland and Atlanta most recently) and didn't fight back even if they didn't like it.

 

-- That the idea of Kraft compromising on his team so that Brady could get a reduced suspension might happen,  but no one on any of the three shows thought it was a slam dunk.    They thought it was possible.   But no one thought the suspension would be eliminated.    Any who thought it would be reduced thought it would go to two games.   

 

-- The NFLPA says it is still going forward with their appeal on behalf of Brady.....

 

I'll update more if I learn more.....

 

Interesting day.....

 

p.s. --  within the last 24 hours the Pats floated the idea that the reason they suspended the two equipment guys is because the NFL advised them to do so.    The NFL has denied that.