DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[jabbanobadda]

I think someone lives in a world of candy canes and fairy dust.

[amfootball]

I don't think you understand how mediation works.

I do. Very much. And the league will be coming to the table with the weakest hand it has had on any investigation it has ever done.

[ReMeDy]

It's amazing that some still can't grasp or rather conveniently choose to ignore the fact that "more probable than not" is the standard of proof that the NFL sets on matters pertaining to league violations.  This is not a court of law where the burden of proof is the "preponderance of the evidence" or even "beyond a reasonable doubt". This was a league investigation and based on the findings of the Wells Report the threshold of "more probable than not" was met in terms of the two Patriot equipment guys and Brady was determined to have been generally aware of what was going on.  There is nothing inconclusive about the Wells Report findings. 

 

The ultimate truth is surrounded by a few uncertainties, but what is absolutely a FACT is the Patriots withheld information in regards to Brady refusing to turn over his cellphone, and the Patriots refusing to let the equipment manager go in for an interview. Robert Kraft said the Patriots would be fully cooperative with the investigation. They have failed.

[jvan1973]

I do. Very much. And the league will be coming to the table with the weakest hand it has had on any investigation it has ever done.

Lol, ok, keep telling yourself that.

[Gramz]

Here's what really irks me about this whole thing.  Tom cheated and Tom lied.  Anybody other than a homer  can see that.  

 

What I hate the most is that he deflected the blame onto the Colts when he said something about it being "sour grapes" in his presser.

 

Kravitz, Grigson, etc. .... along with the fans have had to endure such talk.   And, there have been those who took it to another level by accusing the Colts of being the ones who were in the wrong . . . to the point where the Colts were even accused of deflating the football(s).  

 

It's one thing to cheat and lie, but to blame it on the very people (team) that you cheated and lied against takes it to another level and makes Tom even more pathetic and disgusting in my book.

[ReMeDy]

a certain someone on here has not answered one question I've asked her today.

 

I'm single. Oh whoops, I'm a guy.

[21isSuperman]

It's ok... We've got each other

[Coltsman1788]

I think Pats fans should be glad Goodell and not Colts fans are handling this.  Anything less than blood isn't going to be enough for Colts fans.

I know right?

 

I'd be shocked though by anything more than a 4 game suspension with a "significant" fine which would basically amount to a slap on the wrist to Tom Brady.  I fully expect that the League will do all in their power to ensure that Brady is reinstated by the time they play the Colts.  The hype and story lines behind that game equate to a rating bonanza. The NFL aren't fools...they know where their bread is buttered at the end of the day. 

 

I don't think Belichick should be suspended since he was exonerated by the report.  But since Brady's violation goes toward the integrity of the game, I do feel that the Pats should lose a 3rd or 4th round draft pick. 

 

I think that's fairly generous coming from a Pats hating Colts fan.  lol 

[GoColts8818]

 

Here's what really irks me about this whole thing.  Tom cheated and Tom lied.  Anybody other than a homer  can see that.  

 

What I hate the most is that he deflected the blame onto the Colts when he said something about it being "sour grapes" in his presser.

 

Kravitz, Grigson, etc. .... along with the fans have had to endure such talk.   And, there have been those who took it to another level by accusing the Colts of being the ones who were in the wrong . . . to the point where the Colts were even accused of deflating the football(s).  

 

It's one thing to cheat and lie, but to blame it on the very people (team) that you cheated and lied against takes it to another level and makes Tom even more pathetic and disgusting in my book.

 

Like I said before the Pats have been trying to bully their way out of this.  I don't think that's working for them outside of the Northeast. 

[ricker182]

Here's what really irks me about this whole thing. Tom cheated and Tom lied. Anybody other than a homer can see that.

What I hate the most is that he deflected the blame onto the Colts when he said something about it being "sour grapes" in his presser.

Kravitz, Grigson, etc. .... along with the fans have had to endure such talk. And, there have been those who took it to another level by accusing the Colts of being the ones who were in the wrong . . . to the point where the Colts were even accused of deflating the football(s).

It's one thing to cheat and lie, but to blame it on the very people (team) that you cheated and lied against takes it to another level and makes Tom even more pathetic and disgusting in my book.

They accused us of doing what they were actually doing.

That's sociopathic.

A huge twist on Rovian Politics.

[chrisfarley]

The Patriots are not exonerated - Ignorance is not a defense the falcons had a excessive crowd noise issue that ownership while clueless was held responsible for plus

 

In the past repeat offenders receive harsher punishments plus neither the Patriot organization or Tom Brady cooperated 100% IMO .

 

Loss of a first rd pick in 2016 - 2-4 game suspension for Tom Brady & 1 million dollar fine for the organization is a possibility .

 

Its not the crime but the cover up the Patriot Organization are like Nixon I am not a crook , In my opinion the Roger Goodell in Nov stated The Patriots since 2000 have been cheating its time he put a stop to it once & for all..

You make good points and I hope they will make the punishments harsh to protect the shield. Teflon Tom is going full court press to try to clear his name.  I knew his agent would start spewing venom as well and sure enough, he has/is.

[AndreRison]

I do. Very much. And the league will be coming to the table with the weakest hand it has had on any investigation it has ever done.

You seem to be a caricature of the average Boston fan. We will see what happens when the hammer drops. I think you'll be outraged.

[amfootball]

You seem to be a caricature of the average Boston fan. We will see what happens when the hammer drops. I think you'll be outraged.

I expect a big hammer and then Brady/Pats to fight it ... Brady's agent has already got the ball rolling on what he thinks of the "report" and Kraft too.

[BlueShoe]

The PA can't even get Adrian Peterson back on the field . He was convicted of a misdemeanor.

Greg Hardy is about to miss more games and his conviction was overturned

Mickey loomis and Sean Payton missed a year with nothing tying either to bountugate.

The punishment for Brady and the pats will be harsh

 

You're right.

You're right.

You're right.

I hope you're right.

[jskinnz]

He also said he was still digesting the report. He will talk once he has had a chance to review the whole 234 pages ...

 

That is not close to what he meant when he said that.  Not even in the ballpark.

[BlueShoe]

However, “more probable,” “generally” and “unlikely” are three huge qualifiers that scream at the lack of a smoking gun when it comes to Brady. And it’s a far cry from being able to say that he orchestrated the entire thing. Goodell clearly will have to do something, but he’s armed with a report that has some significant limitations. If he steps too far, he risks a union-backed fistfight with arguably the league’s biggest superstar.

 

Are you actually paying attention to what is going on outside of the Boston media?

 

When the league uses words such as "more probable than not", it means guilty. 

 

Let that sink in very well. "More probable than not" is the leagues legal words for "guilty". 

 

Brady is guilty as charged. Accept it. It is a fact.

[Coltsman1788]

 

Here's what really irks me about this whole thing.  Tom cheated and Tom lied.  Anybody other than a homer  can see that.  

 

What I hate the most is that he deflected the blame onto the Colts when he said something about it being "sour grapes" in his presser.

 

Kravitz, Grigson, etc. .... along with the fans have had to endure such talk.   And, there have been those who took it to another level by accusing the Colts of being the ones who were in the wrong . . . to the point where the Colts were even accused of deflating the football(s).  

 

It's one thing to cheat and lie, but to blame it on the very people (team) that you cheated and lied against takes it to another level and makes Tom even more pathetic and disgusting in my book.

 

Good points Gramz.  Another thing that was particularly irksome from the Colts' point of view is that Griggs proactively tried to give the League a heads up on what the Pats were going to do in advance to ensure a level playing field.  Still...even with this notice the refs still somehow allowed the Patriots to use the under inflated balls.  If not for Jackson's interception it's possible that the refs would never had been clued in that the Pats ball pressures changed from the pregame check levels.  Anderson the ref even admits in the Wells Report that right before the game, the footballs disappeared somewhere between the pregame air pressure check and the time that they were brought back out on the field and that he didn't know where they were.  He also said it was the first time that he encountered that.  Still the balls weren't checked again until the Colts petitioned the refs after Jackson's interception in the 1st or 2nd Quarter.

 

Griggs and Irsay were livid after the game due to the refs' inability to prevent the Pats from using the under inflated balls even with the advance request for them to be on the look out for this.  I am glad that the Wells Report substantiated the Colts legitmate concerns.  I also appreciate our front office's class in not really offering any further comments in light of the findings.  The Report speaks for itself.

[BlueShoe]

Like I said before the Pats have been trying to bully their way out of this.  I don't think that's working for them outside of the Northeast. 

 

True. And what's worse is they are looking like fools in the process. Kraft, Brady, and his Brady's agent. 

 

Notice how Bill is steering clear? That is the ingredient I find most interesting. When is he going to say enough is enough? Is there a scenario where he just walks away from it all? I would not blame him. For some reason, I believe Bill had nothing to do with this. At this time, I really do believe Bill. And if that is true then how could he not feel betrayed?

[OffensivelyPC]

I expect a big hammer and then Brady/Pats to fight it ... Brady's agent has already got the ball rolling on what he thinks of the "report" and Kraft too.

if defendants can be court ordered to pay millions on account of "more probable than not," no amount of PA and agents crying will force a 4 game suspension being overturned for being harsh. It's not a difficult burden of proof to satisfy when the person in question is caught lying, a bunch of evidence supports the theory that a ball boy deflated it at the direction of the only man to handle the ball on every play, and then appears to have covered it up. The fact that a harsh penalty would get turned over where a lesser penalty wouldn't on the same evidence is irrelevant. All that matters is whether he probably did it. And the nfl has 243 pages under penalty of perjury that says he did.

[ricker182]

I expect a big hammer and then Brady/Pats to fight it ... Brady's agent has already got the ball rolling on what he thinks of the "report" and Kraft too.

How is Brady's agent's opinion even relevant?

He's a Brady kiss butt. Why would he say anything bad about Tom? Tom is his employer/boss.

[ricker182]

True. And what's worse is they are looking like fools in the process. Kraft, Brady, and his Brady's agent.

Notice how Bill is steering clear? That is the ingredient I find most interesting. When is he going to say enough is enough? Is there a scenario where he just walks away from it all? I would not blame him. For some reason, I believe Bill had nothing to do with this. At this time, I really do believe Bill. And if that is true then how could he not feel betrayed?

Belichick is an evil genius. I expect nothing less.

I believe he knew what was going on and told Brady to stop because it's not worth the advantage. That's why he practically threw him under the bus in his initial news conference and reverted to "you'd have to ask Tom".

[dgambill]

Jerome Bettis earlier mentioned that the Integrity of the game has been harmed .

 

 

 

 

 

integrity

Doing the right thing even when nobody's looking.

  let's be honest...the NFL doesn't have a lot of integrity with the concussion stuff/letting abusers play...not really where people need to go to look up or point to integrity. Sorry...that's like complaining to the cops that you got jipped an ounce from your weed dealer....not much sympathy.

That would be hilarious if happened. Pats lose those games without Brady, miss playoffs, and the Colts go to win the Superbowl. How's that for Patriots and Colts forever linked up?

I'm sorry but I think we will play the most angry motivated team the NFL has ever seen...I want no piece of them...I would not be surprised to see them put up a 50 burger on us...you guys are laughing now but I don't want to be hearing any crying come January if they whip us again. I think this is our "season on a brink" but this whole ordeal will give NE so much motivation....and I remember 2007....might see that all over. I fully expect them to try to run up the score on us and if they do I don't want to hear any whining. Not saying the colts did anything wrong but with the attitude on here I can't blame them if we give them bulletin board material.  

Yes. 20 minutes before and that is when Walt lost track of the balls. Firs time apparently in 19 years for him and he did not think to re-gauge after Grigson gave him a heads-up before the game ...

  we don't know what the NFL told the officials...they did their job...it's not their fault there was a hole in the chain of procedures that Tom and these guys exploited. Perhaps all they knew was to check to see if the balls were under inflated and when they weren't they were satisfied. Nobody knew how the pats were doing this...colts, NFL, refs...sometimes you have to catch them in the act to figure out how it was happening. I do wish it wouldn't have happened...NFL just told Tom to knock it off because I've thought a ton of the guy...but he did what he did....hopefully he will come out and apologize, be contrite, apologize to his team and the other players in the league and then go out and play lights out and remind everyone why he is the best qb of this generation.

Here's what really irks me about this whole thing.  Tom cheated and Tom lied.  Anybody other than a homer  can see that.  

 

What I hate the most is that he deflected the blame onto the Colts when he said something about it being "sour grapes" in his presser.

 

Kravitz, Grigson, etc. .... along with the fans have had to endure such talk.   And, there have been those who took it to another level by accusing the Colts of being the ones who were in the wrong . . . to the point where the Colts were even accused of deflating the football(s).  

 

It's one thing to cheat and lie, but to blame it on the very people (team) that you cheated and lied against takes it to another level and makes Tom even more pathetic and disgusting in my book.

it was very lance Armstrong I agree...throw everyone and accuse everyone else...but let's also not forget both are many time champions playing in a sport that you try to get every advantage you can...and likely put your character to the test to do the right thing...sometimes our stars fail. Tom like lance has still done a lot....many many good things...money raised etc etc....a mistake and such doesn't make them evil or bad people....we all fall...most just not in the public eye. I hope he gets up and like I said comes back and plays great but realizes the sport that has given him so much he owes an apology to. That is all.

[Archangel]

After reading the many comments on this subject, IMO since the spygate was uncovered and other fractions against the Patriot organization was discovered in recent years you thought the organization would of learned by now bending the rules does not pay. So now the wells report comes out indicating not 2 but 3 people were involved in a rule violation which included a franchise quarterback and I dont

care what anyone says it was a rule violation before and during the AFCG game this has already been established, Do we know how long

this has been going on No just speculation the only one that knows the answer to this probably will never answer this and if he did

would anyone believe this person probably not, So for a lot of us Tom Brady and the patriot organization will be tarnished no matter

how many super bowls they win or how good of a football player he was or is.Is Tom Brady a HOF many of fans thinks so and now many of

football fans he is a cheat and a liar. Now as for the NFL not warning the Patriots that they were under investigation for unapproved footballs the warning came when the rule was put in. That was the only warning any NFL team was going to get. I also want to thank the colt organization for bringing this issue to the league.I hope the NFL cracks down on this organization and tom brady so that the rest of us fans can get back to football and cover the teams we root for

[NFLfan]

I get your point. I understand. As another player I wouldn't be happy...as I am certain NE wouldn't be happy if another team got to adjust the footballs after the officials checked them. Everyone knows it was wrong. The thing is I don't cry over spilled milk. Its over...its done. A bunch of I'm glad this is over/got caught etc is enough. I just don't get the 30 pages of trying to tear people down and attack their character and achievements over a mistake. I don't condone it and I believe they should and will get penalized for it. But the pitchforks and fire is a bit much. They were the best team all year. He has been the best qb of this generation. It was a black eye for sure but this had little effect on football games. Doesn't make it right...doesn't mean he shouldn't be punished...but guys he didn't murder someone...he didn't steal your lunch money...he didn't shove you in a locker in high school. I am happy we can all move on now.

I'm as big a Colts fan as any...and I was calling for us to lose a pick over Irsay. It could have been a terrible tragedy and it is a huge black eye for the league. The only way to get an owners attention is to take away picks...also people within the organization that can see the trouble and issues someone is suffering from will speak out if they know it will hurt the organization. I called for us to lose a pick....and on this one I'm not sure about a pick but I'm sure Tom will miss some games. Just missing that first game when he should be honored with his teammates for winning the SB will probably be enough.

DG, would you see it the same way if this were Manning or Luck that was found to have done the same thing? You seem to be harder on your own guys, Irsay included. You seem to value doing things the right way. The integrity of the game is important to you and you don't like cheaters. What Tom Brady did was clear cheating. He may have won the games anyway but that does not dismiss his having intentionally and knowingly broken the rules.

Yes, I agree that Brady did not need to do this to be great and is one of the best to play his sport but so were Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong in their sports. Brady is in their category now.

[Surge89]

The whole thing reminds me of when George Brett had too much pine tar on his bat. Was it illegal? Sure. But was it the reason that he hit the ball 400' ?

I know I'm a Colts fan & I'm supposed to be basking in this, but I'm beyond over it.

Wow what a crappy comparison. Those deflated balls increased team performance. Causing less fumbles and more accurate throws. To say it's the equivalent of too much pine tar is laughable. There are PSI rules for a reason. It is a competitive advantage if everyone doesn't play with the same parameters of ball.

[ponyboy]

 

Here's what really irks me about this whole thing.  Tom cheated and Tom lied.  Anybody other than a homer  can see that.  

 

What I hate the most is that he deflected the blame onto the Colts when he said something about it being "sour grapes" in his presser.

 

Kravitz, Grigson, etc. .... along with the fans have had to endure such talk.   And, there have been those who took it to another level by accusing the Colts of being the ones who were in the wrong . . . to the point where the Colts were even accused of deflating the football(s).  

 

It's one thing to cheat and lie, but to blame it on the very people (team) that you cheated and lied against takes it to another level and makes Tom even more pathetic and disgusting in my book.

 

 

I couldn't agree more with this sentiment.  This bothers me more than the cheat.

 

But Brady is fully committed to the lie and now has to smear to try to deflect attention.  To Tom's credit, I don't think he's comfortable with the lie and he's not very good at it.  Brady's facial expressions during the Costas interview are classic.  It's a perfect example of what somebody looks like when they're lying.

 

Others like Kraft and Brady's agent are going to have to do the cover for him now with the best possible spin.  They've probably instructed him to just shut up and let them handle it.

[ricker182]

Hey Tom Brady! Read the rulebook!

[furi0usbee]

In addition to the 2-3 game suspension and $100k fine (minimum) I think Brady should get, I think Belichick has to be suspended at least 4-5 games. Even though he didn't know, he needs to be more proactive in making sure stuff like this is not happening on his team. Basically this would erase September for me, and I'd hate starting the season in a hole, but after seeing Brady smiling today with Jim Gray, I'm all set with starting from behind. Brady deserves that.

 

As usual, the cover up and lies are far worse than the original issue. If you cheated, pay the price, admit it, move on. I can live with him manning up, paying the price, and starting a new year. But by insulting the intelligence of all Patriots fans who are not punch drunk, I just can't stand behind my team.

 

What I saw today was beyond arrogant.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

In addition to the 2-3 game suspension and $100k fine (minimum) I think Brady should get, I think Belichick has to be suspended at least 4-5 games. Even though he didn't know, he needs to be more proactive in making sure stuff like this is not happening on his team. Basically this would erase September for me, and I'd hate starting the season in a hole, but after seeing Brady smiling today with Jim Gray, I'm all set with starting from behind. Brady deserves that.

 

As usual, the cover up and lies are far worse than the original issue. If you cheated, pay the price, admit it, move on. I can live with him manning up, paying the price, and starting a new year. But by insulting the intelligence of all Patriots fans who are not punch drunk, I just can't stand behind my team.

 

What I saw today was beyond arrogant.

I didn't see any interviews yet to judge, but how you reacted to this is how I would see myself, were the shoe on the other foot.  Well said.  I wish all team's fans had the same values... 

 

It's no secret my team has never won a Superbowl, but I would NEVER want to win one without it being fair and square (I'd take a little luck, LOL!) but no undue advantage.

[ricker182]

I didn't see any interviews yet to judge, but how you reacted to this is how I would see myself, were the shoe on the other foot. Well said. I wish all team's fans had the same values...

It's no secret my team has never won a Superbowl, but I would NEVER want to win one without it being fair and square (I'd take a little luck, LOL!) but no undue advantage.

Exactly. Every fan deserves that.

Why did they have to cheat? They probably could have won without cheating (outside of maybe the Baltimore game) yet they risk their reputation on deflating footballs.

I'm telling you that organization is full of sociopaths.

[BlueShoe]

Belichick is an evil genius. I expect nothing less.

I believe he knew what was going on and told Brady to stop because it's not worth the advantage. That's why he practically threw him under the bus in his initial news conference and reverted to "you'd have to ask Tom".

 

I think if Bill knew, he didn't always know. I think it's possible that Brady told him about this after the fact. After all of the media jumped on this and after Bill had his press conference. 

 

Bill's first press conference was convincing. At least to me it was. I could be wrong though.

 

Now all of that said, I am giving Bill the benefit of the doubt here. Proof will be if/when Bill decides to trade Brady. Because I would expect nothing less from Bill to trade Brady if he was lied to. BB could come out of all of this smelling like a rose. Trade Brady away and toss the problem to the side. Now the problem with all of this is Kraft. If Kraft draws the in the sand and tells BB no, then Bill will might walk away from the patriots after this season.

 

One trade scenario I could see is Brady for Kap. Send Brady back to his hometown team, and have a young QB to mold for the future. 

 

In summary if BB had absolutely nothing to do with this then I believe he will do one of two things; he will attempt to trade away Brady, or he will resign as the patriots head football coach at the end of this year.

 

Note - I refuse to ever again write the patriots with a capital P. 

[ReMeDy]

 I would expect nothing less from Bill to trade Brady if he was lied to. BB could come out of all of this smelling like a rose. Trade Brady away and toss the problem to the side. Now the problem with all of this is Kraft. If Kraft draws the in the sand and tells BB no, then Bill will might walk away from the patriots after this season.

 

One trade scenario I could see is Brady for Kap. Send Brady back to his hometown team, and have a young QB to mold for the future.

 

Good point on trading Brady. It would certainly fit the Patriot-way. They traded:

Richard Seymour

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4450767

 

Randy Moss

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5653186

Matt Cassel

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3942130

Logan Mankins

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/08/26/patriots-trade-mankins-to-bucs/

Mike Vrabel

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2009/02/28/vrabel_traded_in_a_stunner/

 

Ryan Mallett

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/08/31/ryan-mallett-trade-houston-texans-new-england-patriots/14903079/

I could go on.

Everyone is expendable in the Patriots organization -- veterans and QB's alike. If they had Reggie Wayne, they probably would have traded him too, because they could care less about respect. It's a business for them. The only question is, would Robert Kraft allow Bill Belichick to trade Brady? Bill has a lot of GM-wielding power, but how much?

 

[Superfly Jay]

Man, the Patriots are deflating footballs. Hernandez is deflating humans. It's time to take a stand, and throw the book at the Patriots organization.

[IcEWoLF]

At the end of the day the report was not CONCLUSIVE. Of course any other people other than Patriots fans would just consider that verdict "Guilty" because of our previous record. 

This whole media attention will fire up the locker room more, it will be a good season for the Patriots.

[IcEWoLF]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12843662/tom-brady-new-england-patriots-says-deflated-ball-controversy-does-not-mitigate-super-bowl-title

[AndreRison]

At the end of the day the report was not CONCLUSIVE. Of course any other people other than Patriots fans would just consider that verdict "Guilty" because of our previous record.

This whole media attention will fire up the locker room more, it will be a good season for the Patriots.

It was conclusive that Brady gave gifts to the "deflater", then lied about knowing him. Are you ok with that? I'm not. I don't care if it was Andrew Luck. I have a problem with that.

6 games for Brady.

[ricker182]

At the end of the day the report was not CONCLUSIVE. Of course any other people other than Patriots fans would just consider that verdict "Guilty" because of our previous record. 

This whole media attention will fire up the locker room more, it will be a good season for the Patriots.

More probable than not.  That is how the NFL determines if an infraction has occurred.

Did you even read the report?  

Did you even read the first few pages where it explains what they were looking for?  I don't know why I'm even asking because you obviously didn't.

IT IS CONCLUSIVE.  

[IcEWoLF]

It was conclusive that Brady gave gifts to the "deflater", then lied about knowing him. Are you ok with that? I'm not. I don't care if it was Andrew Luck. I have a problem with that.

6 games for Brady.

 

I guess you never knew that players gift staff members stuff all the times...if happens in every single sports. But of course if the Patriots do it then its definitely something up with that right?

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

I guess you never knew that players gift staff members stuff all the times...if happens in every single sports. But of course if the Patriots do it then its definitely something up with that right?

It's more because he lied tha5 he knew them. If you are giving someone gifts like your 50000 yard ball you should know their name atleast

[ricker182]

I guess you never knew that players gift staff members stuff all the times...if happens in every single sports. But of course if the Patriots do it then its definitely something up with that right?

You don't English well.  

  

Do you have proof that every other team does it?  

  

Because we have proof that Tom Brady did it.