The Center position next year

[pacolts56]

We don't seem to have a good track record of drafting centers. Since 2008 I think we have had the following:

 

Jeff Saturday

Mike Pollak

Steve Justice

Kyle DeVan

Jamey Richard

Mike McGlynn

Samson Satele

Zane Taylor

A.Q. Shipley

Khaled Holmes     

Jonotthan Harrison  

 

Plus probably several other O-lineman that have had some C experience.

Jeeeez.....

[scooter4910]

Jeeeez.....

You'd think after all the money, time, coaching/training and aggravation we've expended over the last couple of years, it would have been better for us just to break down and sign a proven/dependable center.

[pacolts56]

You'd think after all the money, time, coaching/training and aggravation we've expended over the last couple of years, it would have been better for us just to break down and sign a proven/dependable center.

Yep.....we've swung and missed pretty badly since Saturday's departure.

 

Some Colts fans wanted Alex Mack last year but some noted his high price tag....and of course he wound up breaking his leg so the Browns got burned.

 

I guess Stefen Wiesnewski and Rodney Hudson are the top free agents at C this off-season....maybe Grigs will take a shot at one of them. Ideally of course, it would be great to see Holmes or Harrison develop into an upper-tier C and us not have to shell out FA money.

 

IDK man....we gotta do something to solidify the position, especially with OG being unsettled too.

[Gavin]

Whichever one decides to put his big boy britches on and step up to the big leagues and move a pile in the run game 

[scooter4910]

Yep.....we've swung and missed pretty badly since Saturday's departure.

 

Some Colts fans wanted Alex Mack last year but some noted his high price tag....and of course he wound up breaking his leg so the Browns got burned.

 

I guess Stefen Wiesnewski and Rodney Hudson are the top free agents at C this off-season....maybe Grigs will take a shot at one of them. Ideally of course, it would be great to see Holmes or Harrison develop into an upper-tier C and us not have to shell out FA money.

 

IDK man....we gotta do something to solidify the position, especially with OG being unsettled too.

At this point I think we need to start Holmes with Harrison as backup and let the chips fall where they may. Holmes has had enough time to be groomed....time to prove himself.

[pgt_rob]

Continue with Khaled Holmes and build his experience. Draft right guard.

[Dark Superman]

Could Harrison possibly play G?

Doesn't matter. I'm rooting for Hennon to start at guard.

[Dark Superman]

The C,RG and RT position are all up for grabs IMO.

[Pancake Block]

The pocket didn't collpase under Holmes and he seems to know when to snap the ball unlike Harrison.  Harrison is a back up at best.  If what's up Holmes can stay healthy I would start him and find an Elite RG for netx year.  Maybe the kid from LSU, maybe Iupiati but I'm nobodys O-Line scout either.

I couldn't figure out what Pagano was doing at Center all year.  Harrison got a 5 yard penalty every game and we really didn't run well most of the time he was in there.  He also had some glaring missed blocks in the passing game.  Holmes was touted as the guy in preseason, gets hurt on the first series of the first game with a high ankle sprain, and then sees spot duty only at OG before inserted back at center very late in the season.  Hardly a ringing endorsement from the coaching staff.  Sign FA Rodney Hudson from KC and draft either B.J. Finney or Brandon Vitabile in mid to late round.

[rock8591]

Last year...instead of getting a big Mack, we stayed Holme and going to Costa rica. We didn't take advantage of the fact that there were Puente of options.

[NewColtsFan]

Last year...instead of getting a big Mack, we stayed Holme and going to Costa rica. We didn't take advantage of the fact that there were Puente of options.

 

Nice.....     I see what you did there!        

[jseg18]

LT Costanzo LG mewhort C Holmes RG free agent/ draft pick RT free agent draft pick. Unless somebody can find me a stat about how successful runs were to the right and left.

[Chucklez]

hope we sign a proven player who can run block, if we go with the same no running game

Center wasn't our main problem for the running game, it was RG and RT mixed with TR being terrible and the fact that Mewhort was a rookie as well.

[Narcosys]

They both played pretty good and I would be fine with either one starting

Harrison was pretty good? Do we have any stats to back that claim up? He gave up pressure, at least one bad snap a game it seemed, and poor run blocking.

Idk maybe I'm wrong, but hated him being in.

[Coffeedrinker]

Last year...instead of getting a big Mack, we stayed Holme and going to Costa rica. We didn't take advantage of the fact that there were Puente of options.

The Colts never had a chance at Mach and De La Puente was not good in Chicago before being placed on IR in November.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Center wasn't our main problem for the running game, it was RG and RT mixed with TR being terrible and the fact that Mewhort was a rookie as well.

imo left guard is slow footed and cant pull, center, left guard and right guard can pass block average, run blocking is very poor, we could not run up the gut with any of them or any rb, need upgrades at all 3 positions

[Superman]

LT Costanzo LG mewhort C Holmes RG free agent/ draft pick RT free agent draft pick. Unless somebody can find me a stat about how successful runs were to the right and left.

 

Believe it or not, runs to the right were more successful than runs to the left. 

 

Off LT: 5.8 YPC

LT/LG: 3.3 YPC

LG/C: 3.2 YPC

C/RG: 4.4 YPC

RG/RT: 4.6 YPC

Off RT: 3.1 YPC

[Coffeedrinker]

If the Colts ran things like a lot of people on this thread want then the Colts would have a bad oline for years (I know many will claim that they have had a bad line for years but I'm will just look at the Grigs era).  One, the constant, the need to upgrade positions is ridiculous, players need time to improve and to gel and if you keep making wholesale changes every year (two or more positions) things will never get any better.  Players can and do improve... of course the flip side of that is you have to give young players a chance to improve and significant improvement only happens when they play in the games.  Practice is good and important but you don't become a seasoned vet by practicing.  People say they want a line like Dallas well guess what... Dallas built their line through the draft and they were patient with their draft picks.  They let T. Smith takes his lumps on his way to becoming a Top 10 LT, they have drafted well and let the players develop, they did not get their 2014 oline by signing free agents to "upgrade" positions.

 

Let the players develop:

 

AC is easily a top 10 LT and arguably a top 5 and keeps improving

 

Mewhort played as well as any rookie guard in the league this year and he improved through out the year so it only stands to reason he will improve moving into year 2.  

 

Holmes:  Comes in at center and all of a sudden the entire line plays better... That is not a coincidence people.

 

Thornton:  One of the most athletic guards I have seen in a Colts uniform since Jake Scott.  I think his problems are conditioning but early in games he dominates at the guard spot.

 

GC:  Played well early in the season and last year unfortunately has a degenerative knee injury and will probably no be able to get back to his 2013 form.

 

Draft a RT and let the draftee and U. John battle it out for the position.  Take the lumps in 2015 and then by 2016 the Colts will have a top 5 oline.

[Chucklez]

If the Colts ran things like a lot of people on this thread want then the Colts would have a bad oline for years (I know many will claim that they have had a bad line for years but I'm will just look at the Grigs era).  One, the constant, the need to upgrade positions is ridiculous, players need time to improve and to gel and if you keep making wholesale changes every year (two or more positions) things will never get any better.  Players can and do improve... of course the flip side of that is you have to give young players a chance to improve and significant improvement only happens when they play in the games.  Practice is good and important but you don't become a seasoned vet by practicing.  People say they want a line like Dallas well guess what... Dallas built their line through the draft and they were patient with their draft picks.  They let T. Smith takes his lumps on his way to becoming a Top 10 LT, they have drafted well and let the players develop, they did not get their 2014 oline by signing free agents to "upgrade" positions.

 

Let the players develop:

 

AC is easily a top 10 LT and arguably a top 5 and keeps improving

 

Mewhort played as well as any rookie guard in the league this year and he improved through out the year so it only stands to reason he will improve moving into year 2.  

 

Holmes:  Comes in at center and all of a sudden the entire line plays better... That is not a coincidence people.

 

Thornton:  One of the most athletic guards I have seen in a Colts uniform since Jake Scott.  I think his problems are conditioning but early in games he dominates at the guard spot.

 

GC:  Played well early in the season and last year unfortunately has a degenerative knee injury and will probably no be able to get back to his 2013 form.

 

Draft a RT and let the draftee and U. John battle it out for the position.  Take the lumps in 2015 and then by 2016 the Colts will have a top 5 oline.

I hear what you are saying with the let them develop argument, but to say that we will have a top 5 oline by 2016 is a bit on the optimistic / naive side.

Who is to say that those particular players will continue to improve on that curve? Who is to say that one or two wont regress? I definitely agree we shouldnt be changing the players every year in order to get the quick fix, because inevitably that wont work, but you do always need to keep an eye out for better talents and constantly evaluate your line.

[Coffeedrinker]

I hear what you are saying with the let them develop argument, but to say that we will have a top 5 oline by 2016 is a bit on the optimistic / naive side.

Who is to say that those particular players will continue to improve on that curve? Who is to say that one or two wont regress? I definitely agree we shouldnt be changing the players every year in order to get the quick fix, because inevitably that wont work, but you do always need to keep an eye out for better talents and constantly evaluate your line.

It may be optimistic but it's not naive.  It's based on the watching the players play and knowing what it takes to be a good line and watching how the teams with good lines develop those lines.

 

To your second paragraph obviously there are unknowns... that is part of what makes football exciting.  If Thornton does not have the desire to improve his conditioning then he will be an average guard in the NFL for a couple more years and then be gone, if Holmes keeps getting injured and Harrison continues to lack the field awareness to know what to do then the line will struggle.  These are all things I've said before (I don't expect you to have read them but I don't repeat them in every post either, I try not to write too lengthy in the forums).  As far as your last line... all I can say is duh, every team evaluates every player and looks for better talent.  not just on the line.

[Chucklez]

It may be optimistic but it's not naive.  It's based on the watching the players play and knowing what it takes to be a good line and watching how the teams with good lines develop those lines.

 

To your second paragraph obviously there are unknowns... that is part of what makes football exciting.  If Thornton does not have the desire to improve his conditioning then he will be an average guard in the NFL for a couple more years and then be gone, if Holmes keeps getting injured and Harrison continues to lack the field awareness to know what to do then the line will struggle.  These are all things I've said before (I don't expect you to have read them but I don't repeat them in every post either, I try not to write too lengthy in the forums).  As far as your last line... all I can say is duh, every team evaluates every player and looks for better talent.  not just on the line.

Point taken, my last post wasnt exactly revolutionizing in its content.

I just meant to say kind of what you have said as well, you never know and you can't count of people just always improving. Which is obvious really...

[HtownColt]

Holmes

[John Waylon]

AC, Jack, Holmes, Thornton or FA, Gosder

 

Thats what the o-line is gonna be come opening day, barring injury of course.

 

 

I think Heenan is a huge wildcard on the line. He has the tools.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The center position was such an absolute mess last season I wouldn't be surprised to see us start a stalk of celery in the spot at some point next year......

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I think Holmes showed enough to be the center next year. I see some upside there if he can stay healthy!

[jseg18]

http://youtu.be/glifF2cKeLk

We need a guard like him that pulls and just seals blocks for our rbs. Oh what do you know this man is a free agent. Pay the man for lucks sake

[Mr.Debonair]

http://youtu.be/glifF2cKeLk

We need a guard like him that pulls and just seals blocks for our rbs. Oh what do you know this man is a free agent. Pay the man for lucks sake

 

 

Wow was that Brian Westbrook. How old is that clip 

[jseg18]

Wow was that Brian Westbrook. How old is that clip

I believe this is iupati's rookie year, but could be his 2nd

[Gavin]

I believe this is iupati's rookie year, but could be his 2nd

I hope every one of our O Linemen would watch how other successful O Lines (Particularly in the run blocking) go about things on film

[akcolt]

Holmes can not stay healthy I would bet big $$ he doesn't make it to week 1 history will tell you all you need to know If he's the plan we are a revolving door at C.

[BOTT]

http://youtu.be/glifF2cKeLk

We need a guard like him that pulls and just seals blocks for our rbs. Oh what do you know this man is a free agent. Pay the man for lucks sake

Or the coaches could stop all the pulling since the colts guards don't do it very well

[lollygagger8]

I like Holmes at Center. He seems to have the brains to make the good calls, and he will get better as time goes on. 

 

I think Harrison is better at guard than he is at center. 

[a06cc]

We need guys to stay healthy and play all 16 together. What we did last season to Luck was unfair. You have to consistency.

[Coffeedrinker]

Point taken, my last post wasnt exactly revolutionizing in its content.

I just meant to say kind of what you have said as well, you never know and you can't count of people just always improving. Which is obvious really...

Well, that is kind of the coaches job... to count on players improving.  That is why I laugh at fans that cry when a team sticks with player a, because we as fans only see the games and base the likely hood of improving on that, coaches based it on practice, film room study, how they are in the weight room, the type of questions they ask, if they are injured how they handle the treatment process, how they handle critiques, etc.

 

So let's take Thornton for example.  Many fans think he is bad, but what if he is a diligent student in the film room, the first one into the weight room, progresses at a faster rate than the strength coach is expecting, works with the trainers to get the most out of his injury treatments and asks smart questions?  Those are the types of things a player needs to do to improve and those are the types of things that we fans have little to no knowledge about.

 

So, yes when I talk about a player improving, it is conditional on whether or not they are a professional and do the things needed to improve or not.

[a06cc]

Or the coaches could stop all the pulling since the colts guards don't do it very well

Thornton pulls well, he needs to stay healthy.

[Track Guy]

If I knew we were going to land a good RT in the draft (either Flowers in the 1st or Fisher in the 2nd) I'd feel much better about our O-line. As far as C goes, I'd roll with Holmes but I'd also like to draft Shaq Mason out of Georgia Tech. I feel like if he can be had with our 4th rounder he'd be awesome insurance. If you haven't watched film of him, just check out his run blocking, he's fun to watch. At RG I feel like Thornton and Reitz could battle out for the starting spot if we land a good player at RT in FA or the draft. But I don't know, maybe Grigson wants a marquee G like Iupatti.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I like Holmes at Center. He seems to have the brains to make the good calls, and he will get better as time goes on. 

 

I think Harrison is better at guard than he is at center. 

Harrison is to small for a guard IMO!

[Dustin]

People who want Holmes to start at center must really hate running the ball. You're all a bunch of OUMs!!!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Well, that is kind of the coaches job... to count on players improving.  That is why I laugh at fans that cry when a team sticks with player a, because we as fans only see the games and base the likely hood of improving on that, coaches based it on practice, film room study, how they are in the weight room, the type of questions they ask, if they are injured how they handle the treatment process, how they handle critiques, etc.

 

So let's take Thornton for example.  Many fans think he is bad, but what if he is a diligent student in the film room, the first one into the weight room, progresses at a faster rate than the strength coach is expecting, works with the trainers to get the most out of his injury treatments and asks smart questions?  Those are the types of things a player needs to do to improve and those are the types of things that we fans have little to no knowledge about.

 

So, yes when I talk about a player improving, it is conditional on whether or not they are a professional and do the things needed to improve or not.

I hear you coffee I am not sure though on Thornton? I honestly think he was outplayed by Louis last year. I guess I didn't see enough growth that I thought I would from him?

[Coffeedrinker]

I hear you coffee I am not sure though on Thornton? I honestly think he was outplayed by Louis last year. I guess I didn't see enough growth that I thought I would from him?

HSH you and I agree on quite a few things but if you think LL outplayed Thornton last year then I would tell you that you are not looking at the correct things when evaluating guards.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

HSH you and I agree on quite a few things but if you think LL outplayed Thornton last year then I would tell you that you are not looking at the correct things when evaluating guards.

We have done that before! I have the games recorded will rewatch & let you know.