Freeman Taunting Call

[ColtsBlueFL]

Not to be condescending, but this is not your high school wrestling team.

 

I understand the perceived benefit of benching a guy in this situation, but it pretty much never happens in the NFL.

 

Exactly.  This is job related with highly compensated employees at the highest level. There was an on field reprimand, and there are other ways to address it further if necessary, but sending the employee home on paid leave isn't it. 

 

I wonder if players handle costly mental mistakes in a kangaroo court?

[Superman]

Exactly.  This is job related with highly compensated employees at the highest level. There was an on field reprimand, and there are other ways to address it further if necessary, but sending the employee home on paid leave isn't it. 

 

I wonder if players handle costly mental mistakes in a kangaroo court?

 

Around the time of the bounty stuff, there were reports that a lot of teams keep a pot throughout the year. The pot might go to a team outing or a group meal or something like that. I don't know if that's within the rules or what...

[ColtsBlueFL]

I'm not saying you post isn't legit and have a good point but I find it hysterical that Jeff Fisher is involved in anything that is rule related. His teams have always been among the dirtiest in the league . 

 

Ironic, as he happens to be one of the lead guys on the NFL Competition committee, right under Rich McKay the CEO of the Atlanta Falcons.

[dw49]

Ironic, as he happens to be one of the lead guys on the NFL Competition committee, right under Rich McKay the CEO of the Atlanta Falcons.

 

 

Yes I'm aware of that. That's why I brought it up. His teams were always dirty and they still are. Did you see them raping Beckman about 20 years out of bounds ?  I loved it when the cameras would catch him praising Finnegan after he pulled some dirty crap with the titans. He even showed what a jerk he was sending guys out for a handshake vs the Redskins. What ever prompted him to make fun of another franchise ? Total lack of class jerk ...

 

 

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/rams-giants-brawl-late-hit-odell-beckham-jr-alec-ogletree-josh-brown-122114

 

Here's one that shows I'm not pulling this stuff out of my butt . So many on the internet to pick from... Usually players don't call a coach dirty but this guy is noted for it.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b1e20f/printable/titans-not-concerned-about-broncos-accusations-of-dirty-play

 

http://boltbeat.com/2012/09/20/robert-griffin-iii-already-knows-jeff-fisher-plays-dirty/

[ColtsBlueFL]

Oh, indeed, I remember his days with the Titans.  But it is really the owners league, and the Commissioner and the Competition committee have to do its bidding.  and that is make money, clean up the image, make more money.  ;)

[ViriLudant]

LOL, since you must not actually watch football......talking crap happens ALL the time.

You are trying to say Freemna is some sort of bad seed here, and you have no idea what you are talking about. He had a great stop, and talked crap and got the flag from those refs that made whack calls all night.

His own TEAMMATES tried to stop him. That speaks volumes .

[dw49]

His own TEAMMATES tried to stop him. That speaks volumes .

 

 

Most here are not saying it wasn't taunting. What we are saying is they could have let it go like they let it go all the time. Some is called and some is not. There is nothing in the rules that even infers that because Freeman was up and Randle was down that this makes it more clearly taunting. That would be saying that the rules are different for a defensive player that makes a tackle than it is for a golden boy QB or TE that get in a defenders face after beating them on a play. Yes this qualified as a taunt and Redding realized it and tried to stop it. So what ? 

[jimmy g]

Most here are not saying it wasn't taunting. What we are saying is they could have let it go like they let it go all the time. Some is called and some is not. There is nothing in the rules that even infers that because Freeman was up and Randle was down that this makes it more clearly taunting. That would be saying that the rules are different for a defensive player that makes a tackle than it is for a golden boy QB or TE that get in a defenders face after beating them on a play. Yes this qualified as a taunt and Redding realized it and tried to stop it. So what ?

to quote Woody Hayes: 'act like you've been here before'.

It killed stopping the drive and gave Dallas momentum (as if they needed it). Totally unnecessary and unprofessional. Stupid to give a team better than you are a chance to make up for poor play in that series. Before momentum broke, we seemed somewhat competitive. After that penalty, the game was over...

[Gavin]

I missed the Freeman call so I can't say exactly how this compares, but I definitely just saw Jeremy Hill run over a Broncos defender, stand up while holding the ball, and jaw at him for about about two seconds while he was lying on the ground. He was obviously letting him know that it's going to take more than one guy to keep him from trucking over him. He looked quite menacing with his head and shoulders thrust forward. He was not standing directly over him, but about one 1/2 - 1 yard away. No call. 

 

Is this similar to Freeman or was he straddling the guy?

Similar, Freeman wasn't straddling him with his legs or standing over him, He was about 2 yards away, I have no problem with the call if its consistent but it wont be called that way because its an interpretation type call. There is some grey area in the rule 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Similar, Freeman wasn't straddling him with his legs or standing over him, He was about 2 yards away, I have no problem with the call if its consistent but it wont be called that way because its an interpretation type call. There is some grey area in the rule 

 

The issue is, we never get to hear unedited version of the audio.  There are racial slurs and fightin' words that are automatic fouls. Sometimes those words are said and heard.  Other times they may not be, yet video shows two similar circumstances that were judged differently.  Without the audio, we only have part of the evidence.

[braveheartcolt]

If he runs off the field, then there is no flag. It really is that simple. Blaming the refs, the rules, or the alignment of the stars is totally irrelevant.

[ViriLudant]

Similar, Freeman wasn't straddling him with his legs or standing over him, He was about 2 yards away, I have no problem with the call if its consistent but it wont be called that way because its an interpretation type call. There is some grey area in the rule

I would argue, as did Ruksak, that the moment a player stands over another and yells at him, expect a taunting flag. In that situation, I'm willing to bet there's a flag 90% of the time. Hence why some of us knew there'd be a flag, and why his teammates tried to stop him.

[csmopar]

Not to be condescending, but this is not your high school wrestling team.

I understand the perceived benefit of benching a guy in this situation, but it pretty much never happens in the NFL.

You're not condescending at all. I completely understand it's not the same. My story was simply put to say that benching him I think should have happened. We, the Colts have not been acting disciplined nor playing disciplined football. Look at the number of dumb penalties in recent weeks. That falls on the coaches.

[jskinnz]

If he runs off the field, then there is no flag. It really is that simple. Blaming the refs, the rules, or the alignment of the stars is totally irrelevant.

I can't like this post enough. All he needed to do. The blaming the refs on this one is mind boggling to me. When they discuss taunting in the off season the freeman play is one they use to detail exactly what taunting is.

[jskinnz]

I would argue, as did Ruksak, that the moment a player stands over another and yells at him, expect a taunting flag. In that situation, I'm willing to bet there's a flag 90% of the time. Hence why some of us knew there'd be a flag, and why his teammates tried to stop him.

Watching that play on TV, you could hear the crowd get animated shortly after the play was over and either during or just after freeman stood over the guy. First thing I thought was he just got a taunting penalty. It was that easy to see why he got flagged.

[Gavin]

I would argue, as did Ruksak, that the moment a player stands over another and yells at him, expect a taunting flag. In that situation, I'm willing to bet there's a flag 90% of the time. Hence why some of us knew there'd be a flag, and why his teammates tried to stop him.

I agree with that but to your point about 90%......That still leaves room for some grey area. Regardless bad decision

[Superman]

You're not condescending at all. I completely understand it's not the same. My story was simply put to say that benching him I think should have happened. We, the Colts have not been acting disciplined nor playing disciplined football. Look at the number of dumb penalties in recent weeks. That falls on the coaches.

I don't think it falls on the coaches. I think it's Freeman's responsibility to be a professional. And I really don't think there would have been any point to benching him, other than making people on this board feel better. Like I said, I don't think it was that flagrant of a penalty. Very costly, but it's not like he took a dirty shot at someone. He just got carried away. I bet it doesn't happen again.

[dw49]

I would argue, as did Ruksak, that the moment a player stands over another and yells at him, expect a taunting flag. In that situation, I'm willing to bet there's a flag 90% of the time. Hence why some of us knew there'd be a flag, and why his teammates tried to stop him.

 

 

So way more calls on defensive players should be expected ... right ? You can make a catch or break a tackle and yell in a guy's face but you can't tackle him and yell something at him. That's what you keep saying. Freeman wasn't "straddling him" like that poster asked. Maybe I'm crazy but when you tackle another player , he is often on the ground.. right ? Now one again . I'm not saying by rule that wasn't a taunt. Just keep stating that it's not a lot different than other yelling and "in your face stuff" I see all the time. Some posters say we didn't hear what Freeman said and I'll concede that to them. You keep saying Freeman was up and Randle was down , so "automatic" penalty. I can't find anything in the rule that supports you assertion that a guy that makes a tackle is more subject to being called for taunting. Nor does it make any sense to me.

[iowacoltfan67]

The NFL wanted Dallas to win that game.. And it showed.

Nope !! If players would just not do STUPID things and just play the game, we wouldn't have to worry about penalties of this kind. All Freeman had to do was get up and go back to the huddle. It was a GOOD play, a GOOD hit. We saw it. EVERYBODY saw it. No need to say ANYTHING!!!  

[jameszeigler834]

So way more calls on defensive players should be expected ... right ? You can make a catch or break a tackle and yell in a guy's face but you can't tackle him and yell something at him. That's what you keep saying. Freeman wasn't "straddling him" like that poster asked. Maybe I'm crazy but when you tackle another player , he is often on the ground.. right ? Now one again . I'm not saying by rule that wasn't a taunt. Just keep stating that it's not a lot different than other yelling and "in your face stuff" I see all the time. Some posters say we didn't hear what Freeman said and I'll concede that to them. You keep saying Freeman was up and Randle was down , so "automatic" penalty. I can't find anything in the rule that supports you assertion that a guy that makes a tackle is more subject to being called for taunting. Nor does it make any sense to me.

Its stupid all he was doing was celebrating a good play and that's nothing compared to what Gronk does for the Pats.

[Jason_]

You're not condescending at all. I completely understand it's not the same. My story was simply put to say that benching him I think should have happened. We, the Colts have not been acting disciplined nor playing disciplined football. Look at the number of dumb penalties in recent weeks. That falls on the coaches.

 

what is the number of dumb penalties? 

 

 

coaches can only do so much to drill into the players' minds to play disciplined, to be professionals, and to not commit dumb penalties.  They can't go out on the field with the players and hold their hands to make sure the players don't commit the dumb penalties that coaches have told them over and over not to commit.  At some point, players have to be held accountable as well.  We're pretty much talking about 2 taunting penalties (Davis and Freeman) and add in the Walden headbutt if you want.  That's 3 plays.  That's not even in the neighborhood of the Jim Schwartz Lions.  THEY had a discipline problem. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Its stupid all he was doing was celebrating a good play and that's nothing compared to what Gronk does for the Pats.

 

we all like celebrations.  But the NFL doesn't want celebrations to include-

 

a. groups of team mates gathered together in choreographed celebration

b. any outside articles or props that are not part of the uniform.

c. dramatic actions that involve going to the turf.

d. excessive or prolonged "In your face" gestures, most especially if augmented with radically charged slurs, that creates ill will

 

The officials have been deemed a trained authority on when those line have been crossed.  Each ref may have a different tolerance level, depending on their interpretation of the exact rule.  But as every ump in baseball has a slightly different strike zone, so may each ref on subjective calls (P.I. , unsportsmanlike, etc...) and it is the players and coaches responsibility to know the history of the refs to know what they will and will not tolerate.  and the batters responsibility to know if the ump that day has awide or verry narrow strike zone.  So if a players wants to celebrate "in your face style", they need to be prepared to take the 15 yard hit to go with it.

[GoColts8818]

Freeman was dumb to do what he did. It doesn't matter what another player on another team did or didn't do. As pointed out by Braveheart of Freeman just walks off the field there is no flag. He put himself in poistion to get one because he had to run his mouth. All you can hope for now is that he has learned from this.

[Two_pound]

To me, it looked like that taunting call took all the air out of the Colts. They just started standing around, no emotion, a bunch of arm tackling(which, by the way, does not work in this league),no hitting. Just flat. Can a team go 16-0 every year? Doesn't every team lose 3 or 4 or 5 games a year? What would this forum be like if we lost double digit games the last 10 years?

[ViriLudant]

So way more calls on defensive players should be expected ... right ? You can make a catch or break a tackle and yell in a guy's face but you can't tackle him and yell something at him. That's what you keep saying. Freeman wasn't "straddling him" like that poster asked. Maybe I'm crazy but when you tackle another player , he is often on the ground.. right ? Now one again . I'm not saying by rule that wasn't a taunt. Just keep stating that it's not a lot different than other yelling and "in your face stuff" I see all the time. Some posters say we didn't hear what Freeman said and I'll concede that to them. You keep saying Freeman was up and Randle was down , so "automatic" penalty. I can't find anything in the rule that supports you assertion that a guy that makes a tackle is more subject to being called for taunting. Nor does it make any sense to me.

Oh dear god.

If you've watched the NFL for years, you know that when a player stands over another and yells at him, the taunting penalty will most likely be called.

That's a fact.

If a RB knocks a guy over in the end zone, and does the same, it'll be taunting.

[dw49]

Oh dear god.

If you've watched the NFL for years, you know that when a player stands over another and yells at him, the taunting penalty will most likely be called.

That's a fact.

If a RB knocks a guy over in the end zone, and does the same, it'll be taunting.

 

 

Oh dear Lord , they just "extended the  rule  this year. It was before mostly for props and really excessive stuff. That was never a penalty in the 50 years I've been watching the NFL. Sheez....

[ViriLudant]

Oh dear Lord , they just "extended the rule this year. It was before mostly for props and really excessive stuff. That was never a penalty in the 50 years I've been watching the NFL. Sheez....

Yes.

It was.

[SOMDColtsfan]

IMO, this is what this defense needs. A big mean nasty ILB. Freeman aint it, but you don't find a Dick Butkus off a CFL roster too often. Pretty much the mantra of the Colts D. Pretenders not contenders

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Don't get me wrong. I think we get beat badly with or without this call. But what the heck was that ? I see Gronk do similar to that on about 70% of his catches. Just curious to how some of you saw it.

 

Good hit & Good call by the ref   rules are rules it sucked but so did my Colts on offense , defense & special teams period . A good team overcomes 1 mistake but not multiple mistakes all day long . Had the taunting been the only miscue we may of had a chance Jerrell Freeman has done very well for the Colts he made a mistake one of many by the Colts in Dallas .

[Coltman51]

It is clearly a rule for the NFL and was most definitely flagrant enough to be observed and therefor called.  On the whole I don't like the rule, these are grown men,  are we afraid someone is going to hurt their feelings and make them run off the field in tears?   Don't like the rule and feel it is unnecessary,  but as long as it is there the refs will and should all as they deem necessary

[dw49]

Good hit & Good call by the ref   rules are rules it sucked but so did my Colts on offense , defense & special teams period . A good team overcomes 1 mistake but not multiple mistakes all day long . Had the taunting been the only miscue we may of had a chance Jerrell Freeman has done very well for the Colts he made a mistake one of many by the Colts in Dallas .

 

 

 

Yes they were scary bad. Seems like most thought it was a good call on Freeman. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Oh dear Lord , they just "extended the  rule  this year. It was before mostly for props and really excessive stuff. That was never a penalty in the 50 years I've been watching the NFL. Sheez....

 

Even Peyton Manning chalked up a taunting penalty this year.  Anyone remember this?

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/denver-broncos/0ap3000000382989/Peyton-Manning-personal-foul-for-taunting

 

I still get a chuckle out of it though...

[ColtsBlueFL]

It is clearly a rule for the NFL and was most definitely flagrant enough to be observed and therefor called.  On the whole I don't like the rule, these are grown men,  are we afraid someone is going to hurt their feelings and make them run off the field in tears?   Don't like the rule and feel it is unnecessary,  but as long as it is there the refs will and should all as they deem necessary

 

It's not just the players.  But even there it was out of hand (Incognito-Martin, etc...) as is off field player conduct.  The NFL has these items on it's top agenda-

 

 

"We're going to clean the game up on the field between the players -- the in-your-face taunting, those type of things, the language,'' said St. Louis Rams head coach Jeff Fisher, a longtime member of the NFL's competition committee, in announcing the league's "point of emphasis'' on unsportsmanlike behavior and language on Wednesday. "We're going to raise the standard on the field. We've got to bring the element of respect to its highest level back to our game.''

 

"This is a professional workplace for everybody. That's players, coaches, trainers, equipment men, executives. All of us expect that and it is our job to make sure we deliver that. I think this is going to be a collective effort.''

 

That is why the rules exist, and they continue to add and tweak them.

[Cynjin]

It's not just the players.  But even there it was out of hand (Incognito-Martin, etc...) as is off field player conduct.  The NFL has these items on it's top agenda-

 

 

"We're going to clean the game up on the field between the players -- the in-your-face taunting, those type of things, the language,'' said St. Louis Rams head coach Jeff Fisher, a longtime member of the NFL's competition committee, in announcing the league's "point of emphasis'' on unsportsmanlike behavior and language on Wednesday. "We're going to raise the standard on the field. We've got to bring the element of respect to its highest level back to our game.''

 

"This is a professional workplace for everybody. That's players, coaches, trainers, equipment men, executives. All of us expect that and it is our job to make sure we deliver that. I think this is going to be a collective effort.''

 

That is why the rules exist, and they continue to add and tweak them.

 

That is kind of a funny quote coming from a coach that sent out the players for the coin toss his team drafted from all the picks they received from the RGIII trade.

[dw49]

That is kind of a funny quote coming from a coach that sent out the players for the coin toss his team drafted from all the picks they received from the RGIII trade.

 

 

 

As I also already pointed out and backed up , Fisher was also well known for coaching dirty teams.

[dw49]

Even Peyton Manning chalked up a taunting penalty this year.  Anyone remember this?

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/denver-broncos/0ap3000000382989/Peyton-Manning-personal-foul-for-taunting

 

I still get a chuckle out of it though...

 

 

 

Although some are claiming Freeman's was egregious and "automatic," Manning was fined. So far here's what I see for week 17.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81598650/article/nfl-hits-three-players-with-fines-for-week-17-infractions

[Cynjin]

As I also already pointed out and backed up , Fisher was also well known for coaching dirty teams.

 

Yeah, I just thought that quote about unsportsmanlike behavior & elements of respect was rather ironic from Fisher.

[ColtsBlueFL]

That is kind of a funny quote coming from a coach that sent out the players for the coin toss his team drafted from all the picks they received from the RGIII trade.

 

Yes, brought up before by dw...  physician... heal thyself.  ;)

 

The task ahead is hard... they need to remove the sexual and racially charged speech out while still allowing the emotions of the game.  I'm sure Fisher agrees with most... until it interferes with his agenda.  LOL

[ColtsBlueFL]

Yeah, I just thought that quote about unsportsmanlike behavior & elements of respect was rather ironic from Fisher.

 

I think he was parroting the demands of the owners, thus the assignment from the commissioner.  Being one of the more vocal leaders n the competition committee, it fell in his lap.  Kind of funny.