Offensive Line

[a06cc]

If anyone has re-watched the game from Sunday who stuck out the most. Where are the weak spots on the line?

[SteelCityColt]

If anyone has re-watched the game from Sunday who stuck out the most. Where are the weak spots on the line?

 

As indicated below... 

 

I jest 

[a06cc]

As indicated below...

I jest

Hahah your not kidding. Jack did okay for a rookie and his first game. Gosder and Hugh I'm 50/50 on. Castonzo and Shipley were horrible. Shipley is way too small and doesn't look 300 pounds at all.

[HungarianColtsFan]

If anyone has re-watched the game from Sunday who stuck out the most. Where are the weak spots on the line?

 

Is that You, Mr. Kelly?

 

:-))))

[Valpo2004]

Hahah your not kidding. Jack did okay for a rookie and his first game. Gosder and Hugh I'm 50/50 on. Castonzo and Shipley were horrible. Shipley is way too small and doesn't look 300 pounds at all.

 

I thought Goster and Castanzo did fine when you consider who they where up against.  

 

There wasn't an extraordinary amount of pressure on Luck.  Especially in the 2nd half the line gave Luck plenty of time to throw.

 

I think Shipley is a liability in the run game. I like him as a backup but hopefully we won't have to start him too long.

[BlueShoe]

If anyone has re-watched the game from Sunday who stuck out the most. Where are the weak spots on the line?

 

I watched some of the coaches film, but only the first quarter as this has been a busy week for me. The offensive line played decent in the first quarter. That said it took 5 to block 4, so we need to improve on the numbers.

 

Our run blocking at the first level was decent in the first quarter; however, there were big lanes for linebackers to run through.

 

From only looking at the first quarter, we are doing a good job run blocking and pass blocking at the first level, but need to improve on our numbers. We cannot spend the entire season needing 5 OL to block 4 DL.

 

I will watch more of the game this weekend, and if anyone wants, I can post some coach film pics from the game on the board.

[Colts420]

I thought the tackles did a good job against ware and miller.

[NewEra]

I don't understand how Miami has 5 new offensive linemen and put 190+ rushing yards on NE. They sure didn't need time to "gel". That's with satele at C who everyone here threw under the bus and destroyed. It's looking more like coaching and scheme to me.

[Smash Mouth]

I thnk the weakness is AQ from what we saw Sunday night.  Pressure came from up the middle because of missed assignments so maybe that gets cleaned up.  The Colts abandoned the run so its hard to judge the OL's ability to get a consistent push.  I thought that did a good  job as a unit in the passing game in the 2nd half considering Denver knew they would throw.

[OldSchoolColt]

They did fine, especially for such a high ranking defense. Shipley did all right for being thrown in there.

[ztboiler]

Hahah your not kidding. Jack did okay for a rookie and his first game. Gosder and Hugh I'm 50/50 on. Castonzo and Shipley were horrible. Shipley is way too small and doesn't look 300 pounds at all.

You do realize that AC and Cherilus were playing against 2 of the premier edge rushers in the league.....and gave up very little pressure, right?  The pocket was muddy in the first half from the inside out, but if Bjoern Werner was as invisible as Von Miller was last Sunday, most here would be calling him a bust....Oh wait, that would never happen....

[BrentMc11]

I am wondering aloud if some of the posters here watched the game.

[SteelCityColt]

I am wondering aloud if some of the posters here watched the game.

 

For the record my post was firmly tongue in cheek  

[Valpo2004]

I don't understand how Miami has 5 new offensive linemen and put 190+ rushing yards on NE. They sure didn't need time to "gel". That's with satele at C who everyone here threw under the bus and destroyed. It's looking more like coaching and scheme to me.

 

I don't care if he was good in Miami Satele was bad here.  And that's not just cause I said so or someone else said so. . . look at how long it took him to find a team after we cut him and that only happened due to injury.  If you have been playing good the last couple of years and you didn't do something horrible off the field your agent's phone are ringing the moment you become a FA.  

[BrentMc11]

For the record my post was firmly tongue in cheek

I kind of thought so buddy!!  

[Coltswarriors]

Tackles are good, interior is a mess.

[wesd2890]

Shipley did great for only having 5 practices with the team. You cant ask him to go out and be an all pro after 5 practices. Give the dude a break. He was thrown to the wolves and held up pretty good

[NewEra]

I don't care if he was good in Miami Satele was bad here. And that's not just cause I said so or someone else said so. . . look at how long it took him to find a team after we cut him and that only happened due to injury. If you have been playing good the last couple of years and you didn't do something horrible off the field your agent's phone are ringing the moment you become a FA.

Yeah I agree. My question was how can he look good with them? How can their brand new rebuilt line look so good? Is it their coaching? Scheme?

[Archer]

I thought the tackles both did very well.  Run blocking, all around, was much better than last year (though I realize that's not saying too much).  There was definitely some confusion in the interior on occasion, which is expected when the starting unit hasn't really worked with each other.  In general, I would say that Mewhort was probably the most impressive.  He got a positive comment from Collingsworth for his ability to get out in front of screen passes and stick some blocks.  He really looked comfortable out there.  Shipley looked like a guy who had only been on the team for eight days sometimes.  But, other times he looked pretty good.  Thornton looked up and down, but generally pretty solid.  I'm definitely not worried about the interior, even with Shipley in there.  The line gave Luck a lot more time and the RBs more holes than we've seen the last two years (by far).

[TKnight24]

Yeah I agree. My question was how can he look good with them? How can their brand new rebuilt line look so good? Is it their coaching? Scheme?

Or.... Just a bad game by NE

It was only week 1

[HtownColt]

Shipley making mental mistakes and allowing Nate Irving to run free for a TRich TFL and a sack on Luck on almost back to back plays. That's why I hope Holmes is back this week

[wesd2890]

Lets not over think why miami o line looked good. They ran the ball good against a mediocre defense. Miami was going against their rivals. No body talks about how good Tennessees line is when chris johnson used to destory us or when MJD did. It was because our defense sucked. Same with this Miami new england game ..new englands defense sucks.

[Valpo2004]

Yeah I agree. My question was how can he look good with them? How can their brand new rebuilt line look so good? Is it their coaching? Scheme?

 

Small sample size. . .  Good players sometimes have bad games, it makes sense that maybe even bad players might have good games.

 

Perhaps the Patriots are overrated.  

 

I remember them talking on NFL network something about Miami having a big advantage in week 1 at home against teams from the North because of the climate and the players are not at quite the conditioning they would be in later weeks.  

 

Makes some sense, Miami probably trained their whole camp in the heat while New England, not so much.  They could have simply worn down the New England defense.  

 

I tend to agree, you may be making too much of one game.  If Satele plays well the whole season then I think it's a worthwhile question.

 

Remember that same offensive line that sucked last year looked pretty dominate against the 49er's last year.  If you look at just that one game you would think we are a great running team with a dominate offensive line with a game manager for a quarterback.

[Archer]

Small sample size. . .  Good players sometimes have bad games, it makes sense that maybe even bad players might have good games.

 

Perhaps the Patriots are overrated.  

 

 

Ha, ha!  I made the statement a few weeks ago (when we were talking about which games would be toughest, I think) that NE was being dramatically over-rated, due mostly to a total lack of receiving threats, a suspect 40% of their OL (before they even traded away Mankins), and no depth on the Front-7 or the OL.  I was laughed at by that Pat fan who has the Putin icon.  Too early to declare victory, but I moved the Pats down in my Power Rankings after week 1 from #11 to #13...

[lollygagger8]

Good: Castanzo, Cherilus

 

Bad: Mewhort, Shipley, Thornton, Fleener, Doyle. 

[NewEra]

Small sample size. . . Good players sometimes have bad games, it makes sense that maybe even bad players might have good games.

Perhaps the Patriots are overrated.

I remember them talking on NFL network something about Miami having a big advantage in week 1 at home against teams from the North because of the climate and the players are not at quite the conditioning they would be in later weeks.

Makes some sense, Miami probably trained their whole camp in the heat while New England, not so much. They could have simply worn down the New England defense.

I tend to agree, you may be making too much of one game. If Satele plays well the whole season then I think it's a worthwhile question.

Remember that same offensive line that sucked last year looked pretty dominate against the 49er's last year. If you look at just that one game you would think we are a great running team with a dominate offensive line with a game manager for a quarterback.

Was listening to mike and mike this morning. Stink was talking about with the new cba rules and way teams play the preseason that first game is still getting in the groove. I'd like to think that's why we looked better the second half. I would much rather peak going into the playoffs than come out on fire and fizzle out towards the end ala Pacers last year.

[fvantagio]

Just curious as since this seems to be the common school of thought here. What exactly did the interior oline do that made it so universally accepted that they played bad? The few running plays we had for the most part where blocked up well. With only 2 real negative plays coming to mind. One a miscue by Shipley resulting in a TFL. As for pass protection, Luck had room to step up basically all night long. Nobody was crashing through the middle (except on Shipleys 2 early miscues), Luck wasnt getting hit as he released and remained on his feet most of the night and this was against a really good defensive front that played with a lead all night.

 

It really blows my mind that for 8 months people here complain about no Oline. Then week 1 comes along and Oline plays great despite being down a man... and nobody notices. Perhaps some people here are using the Oline as a scapegoat as to not have to lay the blame at Lucks feet.

[Valpo2004]

Just curious as since this seems to be the common school of thought here. What exactly did the interior oline do that made it so universally accepted that they played bad? The few running plays we had for the most part where blocked up well. With only 2 real negative plays coming to mind. One a miscue by Shipley resulting in a TFL. As for pass protection, Luck had room to step up basically all night long. Nobody was crashing through the middle (except on Shipleys 2 early miscues), Luck wasnt getting hit as he released and remained on his feet most of the night and this was against a really good defensive front that played with a lead all night.

 

It really blows my mind that for 8 months people here complain about no Oline. Then week 1 comes along and Oline plays great despite being down a man... and nobody notices. Perhaps some people here are using the Oline as a scapegoat as to not have to lay the blame at Lucks feet.

 

I don't know, I usually don't try to rate the O-line too much myself because I don't pay close enough attention.

 

That said I can't remember which play it was but I remember seeing Thornton completely whiff on a block.  I'm thinking it might have been a screen play.  

[Coffeedrinker]

Just curious as since this seems to be the common school of thought here. What exactly did the interior oline do that made it so universally accepted that they played bad? The few running plays we had for the most part where blocked up well. With only 2 real negative plays coming to mind. One a miscue by Shipley resulting in a TFL. As for pass protection, Luck had room to step up basically all night long. Nobody was crashing through the middle (except on Shipleys 2 early miscues), Luck wasnt getting hit as he released and remained on his feet most of the night and this was against a really good defensive front that played with a lead all night.

 

It really blows my mind that for 8 months people here complain about no Oline. Then week 1 comes along and Oline plays great despite being down a man... and nobody notices. Perhaps some people here are using the Oline as a scapegoat as to not have to lay the blame at Lucks feet.

Two reasons.  One most posters don't know the difference between good oline play and bad oline play.  Some think that if a tackle rides a defensive end 2 yards behind the QB that the tackle is allowing pressure.  They don't understand the term "pocket" nor that the line is supposed to form a pocket rather than forming a wall.

 

And two, it takes some posters anywhere from half a season to a year and half to come off some preconceived ideas.  Many think the tackles are horrible, so for most of the year they will state the tackles are horrible no matter how good they play.  Then when they finally realize the tackles have been playing well they will act like they knew all along they would develop.

 

Lastly, I would not say they played great, but I do think overall they played well.  Luck got hit a few times (9 I think) but at least 6 of those were his fault for holding onto the ball too long or not moving to the open area in the pocket. (I remember on one sack, Luck stepped right by Ware, AC had him blocked but all Ware had to do was turn around and wrap his arms around Luck.  The only way AC could have prevented Ware from turning around would have been to hold him.

[fvantagio]

I don't know, I usually don't try to rate the O-line too much myself because I don't pay close enough attention.

 

That said I can't remember which play it was but I remember seeing Thornton completely whiff on a block.  I'm thinking it might have been a screen play.  

Yea he got beat soundly. Once. A few others got beat once or twice as well. But for the vast majority, our front 5 beat up on their Dline. Lots of points where left out on the field, that blame lays at the feet of Luck and the other skilled position players. Oline did their part but unfortunately the Offense had like 4 trips into scoring territory that came up with nothing.

[throwing BBZ]

I don't understand how Miami has 5 new offensive linemen and put 190+ rushing yards on NE. They sure didn't need time to "gel". That's with satele at C who everyone here threw under the bus and destroyed. It's looking more like coaching and scheme to me.

 

 You can`t have watched it and not understand. Please tell us you didn`t watch.

[superrep1967]

I thought the o-line played pretty well except for a few mishaps. I know on here though the o-line will take a beating for the most part. But actually I was pleasantly surprised. 
 

[superrep1967]

Just curious as since this seems to be the common school of thought here. What exactly did the interior oline do that made it so universally accepted that they played bad? The few running plays we had for the most part where blocked up well. With only 2 real negative plays coming to mind. One a miscue by Shipley resulting in a TFL. As for pass protection, Luck had room to step up basically all night long. Nobody was crashing through the middle (except on Shipleys 2 early miscues), Luck wasnt getting hit as he released and remained on his feet most of the night and this was against a really good defensive front that played with a lead all night.

 

It really blows my mind that for 8 months people here complain about no Oline. Then week 1 comes along and Oline plays great despite being down a man... and nobody notices. Perhaps some people here are using the Oline as a scapegoat as to not have to lay the blame at Lucks feet.

I couldn't have written it any better very good post. I totally agree!!

[superrep1967]

Lets not over think why miami o line looked good. They ran the ball good against a mediocre defense. Miami was going against their rivals. No body talks about how good Tennessees line is when chris johnson used to destory us or when MJD did. It was because our defense sucked. Same with this Miami new england game ..new englands defense sucks.

Yeah actually the Pats defense has been overrated for years now because Belichek is the coach. 

[Coffeedrinker]

I don't understand how Miami has 5 new offensive linemen and put 190+ rushing yards on NE. They sure didn't need time to "gel". That's with satele at C who everyone here threw under the bus and destroyed. It's looking more like coaching and scheme to me.

I do think part of the issue is coaching and scheme.  I like the man blocking scheme but the it does not seem to account for things like delayed blitzes or stunts.  But more importantly, Satele went against an aging, slowing, overweight Wilfork who was part of a very young and bad defensive front 3.

[Valpo2004]

Yea he got beat soundly. Once. A few others got beat once or twice as well. But for the vast majority, our front 5 beat up on their Dline. Lots of points where left out on the field, that blame lays at the feet of Luck and the other skilled position players. Oline did their part but unfortunately the Offense had like 4 trips into scoring territory that came up with nothing.

 

Pass blocking they where solid.  I'm not so sure about run blocking.  There where some good runs and some not so good runs but overall there wasn't a lot of running because of how far we where behind.

 

The redzone thing. . . on the sneak attempt by Luck you can lay that at the feet of the line.  They have simply got to get more push then that.  

[throwing BBZ]

Just curious as since this seems to be the common school of thought here. What exactly did the interior oline do that made it so universally accepted that they played bad? The few running plays we had for the most part where blocked up well. With only 2 real negative plays coming to mind. One a miscue by Shipley resulting in a TFL. As for pass protection, Luck had room to step up basically all night long. Nobody was crashing through the middle (except on Shipleys 2 early miscues), Luck wasnt getting hit as he released and remained on his feet most of the night and this was against a really good defensive front that played with a lead all night.

 

It really blows my mind that for 8 months people here complain about no Oline. Then week 1 comes along and Oline plays great despite being down a man... and nobody notices. Perhaps some people here are using the Oline as a scapegoat as to not have to lay the blame at Lucks feet.

 

 80% will Not blame Andrew and most of them don`t really see well what actually is happening.  JMO of course.

 Castonzo was the 22nd rated pass blocking LT last season. That high because of Peps Offense.

 He had some tough competition Sunday and for him a decent day. He gave up a LOT of heat in pass protection but for that many pass attempts, no Sacks where he was flat out beaten and i only recall that ankle twister as far as a hit.

 Mewhort Somehow, Go Jack, did the best job keeping his man away from Andrew. He gave Andrew consistent Quality space. He and AC joined for some nice double team Grrrrr stuff. More more more!!!

 Shipley goofed a couple pass protections that killed 2 possessions. A serious Ouch! But that was cleaned up nicely in the 2nd half.

 He was actually VG also in keeping Good space for Andrew to step up into his throws.  Not many attempts running up the middle and Thornton is proven so far as not a good teammate to bust open the middle.

 Thornton, a very tough matchup and he was handled all night and pushed backwards. Very much like McGlynn. He should have been pulled at the half. I still have hope for him, he is a year 3-4 guy i suspect.

 Cherilus. He also gave up big ground and a ton of heat on Andrew, but for so many pass attempts a pretty good day pass blocking all in all.

[throwing BBZ]

Pass blocking they where solid.  I'm not so sure about run blocking.  There where some good runs and some not so good runs but overall there wasn't a lot of running because of how far we where behind.

 

The redzone thing. . . on the sneak attempt by Luck you can lay that at the feet of the line.  They have simply got to get more push then that.  

 

 A stupid hopeless call by Andrew. Wonderful i guess at memorizing a playbook and moving inside or running from a pocket. Mid-tier otherwise.

 Homer on!

[Le Neon]

I don't understand how Miami has 5 new offensive linemen and put 190+ rushing yards on NE. They sure didn't need time to "gel". That's with satele at C who everyone here threw under the bus and destroyed. It's looking more like coaching and scheme to me.

I think Satele was "just a guy", let down by being surrounded by terrible play at guard for most of his time here.

[BOTT]

Just curious as since this seems to be the common school of thought here. What exactly did the interior oline do that made it so universally accepted that they played bad? The few running plays we had for the most part where blocked up well. With only 2 real negative plays coming to mind. One a miscue by Shipley resulting in a TFL. As for pass protection, Luck had room to step up basically all night long. Nobody was crashing through the middle (except on Shipleys 2 early miscues), Luck wasnt getting hit as he released and remained on his feet most of the night and this was against a really good defensive front that played with a lead all night.

 

It really blows my mind that for 8 months people here complain about no Oline. Then week 1 comes along and Oline plays great despite being down a man... and nobody notices. Perhaps some people here are using the Oline as a scapegoat as to not have to lay the blame at Lucks feet.

People just repeat accepted views even if it doesn't happen. It's not unique to the offensive line.