it is better to have a great D than a great O

[lennymoore24]

What I think is so bizarre is how watching the Broncos is like watching the Manning Colts.  Great passing attack all year.   But they get into the big game and they can't score much, they have no reliable running attack, and their defense is no good.  So it all comes down to Peyton being perfect all the time.  And that is just not realistic.   Just odd because when Tebow was there they were a great defense and running attack.  It is like Peyton turns a team into a finesse team that can't consistently run or play defense.

[Poster X]

It is good to have a balanced team, and not become one dimensional on either side of the ball. Case in point... Baltimore, Denver, Seattle (I'm not sold on Wilson, or that offense), or the Colts of old. If you do teams in this league will figure you out eventually.

[Malakai432]

The defense wins championships cliche is utter nonsense. Good teams win championships. Not every team to win a SB is predominantly defensive. But all teams are more than useful in all phases.

Balance is key.

 

The D wins championships cliche is NOT utter nonsense when you have one of the best defenses in the game, or NFL history for that matter.  Patriots had a very good D when Brady was winning all those championships, Ravens, Steelers, Bucs and Seattle.  Heck even the Giants had a good D with regards to their two super bowl wins.  Colts defense fortunately managed to step up to help them beat the Chiefs and Ravens miraculously after having a bad season on the D side of the ball.

 

9 out of the last 15 super bowl winners since 2000 have held their opponents to under 20 points, four to under 25 points. 

 

Of course they're all going to have GOOD TEAMS because they made the flipping Super Bowl,

 

Definitely agree balance is key but, it's kinda difficult to build a complete team. 

[markabrown96]

Really good drafting in the back of the draft and good coaching to set those players up for success

[SteelDragon]

What I think is so bizarre is how watching the Broncos is like watching the Manning Colts.  

 

Exactly.  If you wanted to know what the 2013 Colts would have looked like if Manning was still here, you saw it on display this season in Denver.  

[a06cc]

We beat the seahawk because we have speed and Luck can roll out and throw ball further then 10 yards

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Exactly.  If you wanted to know what the 2013 Colts would have looked like if Manning was still here, you saw it on display this season in Denver.  

 

Wrong

 

If 18 were still here in 2013 we would have less cash to sign free agents the O-line would have been even worse 12 ran for his life behind that porous line something 18 can barely do . .

 

18's O-line & running game in Denver was better , He  could'nt have equaled what 12 accomplished here running the ball extending plays  .

 

 The last 2 starting Bronco QB's who played 2 seasons  both I believe only had 1 playoff win which 12 has .

 

That is what I see with a decade ahead to prove himself 12 is off to a great start .

[Valpo2004]

Would the Niners have the defense they have now with Manning's salary eating up the cap space?

Same thing happened in Indy, one player taking up too much cap for enough quality players on

both sides of the ball.

 

The 9er's didn't have the cap space to sign him for the contract he wanted.  On top of that there where reports that Manning and Harbaugh wouldn't have gotten along.  Harbaugh wanted to control things and Manning didn't want to go anyplace where he wasn't going to be in control of the offense.  

 

It wouldn't have worked because Harbaugh would have taken away Manning's #1 weapon which is his ability to control the offense at the line of scrimmage.  

 

And that's even if the 9er's had the cap room which they didn't.

[King Colt]

Super Bowl 48-Seahawks D crush the best offense of the year.

[Jason_]

We beat the seahawk because we have speed and Luck can roll out and throw ball further then 10 yards

 

dear god.  Peyton can still throw the ball further than 10 yards too.  His arm strength may not be quite what it was when he was a rookie but this notion that he has no arm left is just absurd.

 

Wrong

 

If 18 were still here in 2013 we would have less cash to sign free agents the O-line would have been even worse 12 ran for his life behind that porous line something 18 can barely do . .

 

18's O-line & running game in Denver was better , He  could'nt have equaled what 12 accomplished here running the ball extending plays  .

 

 The last 2 starting Bronco QB's who played 2 seasons  both I believe only had 1 playoff win which 12 has .

 

That is what I see with a decade ahead to prove himself 12 is off to a great start .

 

18 had a pretty horrendous OL in 2010 as well.  I believe Quin Ojanakka (sp?) was a starter at some point after being pulled off the street.  We also had Blair White as a starting WR late in the season yet 18 was still able to get the Colts to limp into the playoffs.  People seem to have magically forgotten that Peyton's OL here in Indy was not always great.  Once Tarik Glenn retired, it started going downhill fast.

[Johnny colt]

My heart tells me no.The stats tell me yes.

[NewEra]

Balanced, all three phases. Can't suck at either.

[throwing BBZ]

Honestly, anybody that didn't already know that superior defenses are better to have than superior offenses, must have Polianitus. It's a known and proven fact that has been known by smart football people forever.

 

With such a GREAT QB, we should have Never drafted Dwight Clark (who only had 3 good seasons-think Tamme), Addai, Gonzalez, Brown in the 1st round.

 All drafted to Appease OUR "One and Done" pass Stats Loving Prima Donna.

 I got tired of beating up the Jags & Texans and so many other AFC Dogs in the reg season just to be one and done.

 He took the $28 Million and then did his rehab, it was INSULTING. Just like he got embarrassed and looked like the Happy Foot Wuss he was against the Steelers those years ago.

 Ahhh! That felt good.

[#12]

If we invest in our D more than our O, we can be a middle of the road offense and a top notch defense and bring home the Lombardi.

 

The current SB is showing that. Time and time again, the best offense in passing yards does not win the SB. When I am writing this, Broncos are down 0-22 at the half. No way they are coming back.

 

Irsay was right in changing the model. Polian and his Bills rode Jim Kelly and that offense to fall short vs better Ds and physical opponents consistently. We got through once for our sole SB ring but the model has to be different now. You still need a QB to make plays but do not need a Top 10 offense to win the SB.

 

You still have to build it though.  Just because you want it doesn't mean it will magically materialize.  31 other teams want what Seattle has as well.  The problem comes when, as we saw for a long stretch this season, you attempt to play a style befitting a team with a top notch defense, a top notch defense you do not own.  In the end, you still have to face reality and play whatever style, based on your current personnel, gives your team the best chance to win.  We couldn't play like Seattle if we wanted to.  In 2013, we tried and saw the results.  It was Luck coming from behind and bailing the team out every week, including against... Seattle. 

[Jason_]

With such a GREAT QB, we should have Never drafted Dwight Clark (who only had 3 good seasons-think Tamme), Addai, Gonzalez, Brown in the 1st round.

 All drafted to Appease OUR "One and Done" pass Stats Loving Prima Donna.

 I got tired of beating up the Jags & Texans and so many other AFC Dogs in the reg season just to be one and done.

 He took the $28 Million and then did his rehab, it was INSULTING. Just like he got embarrassed and looked like the Happy Foot Wuss he was against the Steelers those years ago.

 Ahhh! That felt good.

 

[Dustin]

With such a GREAT QB, we should have Never drafted Dwight Clark (who only had 3 good seasons-think Tamme), Addai, Gonzalez, Brown in the 1st round.

 All drafted to Appease OUR "One and Done" pass Stats Loving Prima Donna.

 I got tired of beating up the Jags & Texans and so many other AFC Dogs in the reg season just to be one and done.

 He took the $28 Million and then did his rehab, it was INSULTING. Just like he got embarrassed and looked like the Happy Foot Wuss he was against the Steelers those years ago.

 Ahhh! That felt good.

The day you ever construct a coherent thought will be a memorable day indeed.

[BBColts]

Defense has always been better than offense and has been proved year after year after year. Anyone preaching that a better offense is more critical to success than a better defense is full of it and completely oblivious to the stats. The best defensive teams almost always win the Super Bowl, those 19-1 Patriots who looked unbeatable were swarmed by the best defensive line I've seen in years from the Giants and they crushed their gameplay. The greatest offensive team in the NFL history last night was manhandled by a team that looked as if there were 15 defenders on the field at a time.

With that said, our future is bright. Consistent quarterback play is also a deciding factor, and we have an incredible quarterback in Luck. Pair him up with a vicious defense and this team becomes an AFC powerhouse for the next 10 years.

[IndyPhil]

I saw another game won by the big uglies on the line of scrimmage. Nothing more, nothing less. X's an O's. A D-line that can fold a pocket makes the game look easy for a secondary. An O-line that can sustain a pocket makes a QB look brilliant. I just saw both... on the same team. The game has, and will always be, won by the unheralded big men inside.

Best post on the colts forums imo.  So true.

[Superman]

Another case of absolutes. Don't understand why a team can't aspire to be great on both sides of the ball.

[BlueCollarColts]

Unfortunately, the Colts are no where near having a defense that is comparable to a top notch defense such as Seattle's.

Is it really a stretch to say our defense needs to be re-built from scratch?

Seattle looks like a team that will have to be reckoned with for the foreseeable future. They have the look of being a juggernaught.

From scratch? No we have some good pieces with Davis, Mathis, and Freeman. The key is surrounding them with other good players

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

dear god.  Peyton can still throw the ball further than 10 yards too.  His arm strength may not be quite what it was when he was a rookie but this notion that he has no arm left is just absurd.

 

 

18 had a pretty horrendous OL in 2010 as well.  I believe Quin Ojanakka (sp?) was a starter at some point after being pulled off the street.  We also had Blair White as a starting WR late in the season yet 18 was still able to get the Colts to limp into the playoffs.  People seem to have magically forgotten that Peyton's OL here in Indy was not always great.  Once Tarik Glenn retired, it started going downhill fast.

 

Actually I remember &  the defenses have sucked for a decade other than the worst to first 2006 D that somehow magicly turned it on in the playoffs .

 

And I actually believe 18 would not have done as good as 12 has the last 2 seasons had he still been a Colt  .  12's ability to run the ball  to extend plays & pick up yards is the only reason the Colts have done as good as they have .

Edited February 4, 2014 by Superman
formatting

[a06cc]

dear god. Peyton can still throw the ball further than 10 yards too. His arm strength may not be quite what it was when he was a rookie but this notion that he has no arm left is just absurd.

18 had a pretty horrendous OL in 2010 as well. I believe Quin Ojanakka (sp?) was a starter at some point after being pulled off the street. We also had Blair White as a starting WR late in the season yet 18 was still able to get the Colts to limp into the playoffs. People seem to have magically forgotten that Peyton's OL here in Indy was not always great. Once Tarik Glenn retired, it started going downhill fast.

After a 10 yard pass that ball is a duck and a floater. He can't throw the ball well anymore and last night it showed. I love Peyton, but the fact is there. No downfield shoot, just bubble screens and short passes.

[SteelDragon]

From scratch? No we have some good pieces with Davis, Mathis, and Freeman. The key is surrounding them with other good players

I will grant you Freeman. Davis is currently unsigned.  Mathis is old.  That's pretty damn thin for the cornerstones of your defense.  Since Grigson whiffed on Free Agency for our defense in 2013, he's going to have to make it up in the draft.  Oh wait... that's minus a first round pick.

We are closer to starting from scratch than we are to having an established, budding defense.  My 2 cents.

[Douzer]

Best post on the colts forums imo.  So true.

I thank you sir!

[Jason_]

After a 10 yard pass that ball is a duck and a floater. He can't throw the ball well anymore and last night it showed. I love Peyton, but the fact is there. No downfield shoot, just bubble screens and short passes.

Well he did get hit numerous times when he was throwing. ;). He's been throwing the ball down field all year. He's not gonna get it 65-70 yards anymore but he can still get it fifty.

[NewColtsFan]

Are you in you 90's or something? You do realize it was just a few years ago that Seattle was terrible. We could have a dominant defense next season if they make the right moves.

 

I wouldn't bet on that happening.

 

Nor do I think it's as easy as you suggest.

 

A dominant defense takes a number of years to build.

[Jason_]

I wouldn't bet on that happening.

 

Nor do I think it's as easy as you suggest.

 

A dominant defense takes a number of years to build.

 

I don't think the defense is nearly as far off as you seem to think it is.

[dudeski]

The day you ever construct a coherent thought will be a memorable day indeed.

great post

[Warhawk]

For what it's worth, teams that win the Super Bowl on the strength of an all-time great defense, and are only average or below average on offense, such as the 85 Bears, 00 Ravens, and 02 Bucs, tend to have difficulty repeating their success.  That's not to say that a good defense isn't important, but rather that approaching building a team by saying "we are going to win games by having a dominant defense" isn't a recipe for long-term success.

[NewColtsFan]

I don't think the defense is nearly as far off as you seem to think it is.

 

I hope you're right, I really do...   but I fear you're not.

 

I don't see many difference makers on our defense.   And the biggest one, Mathis,  is on the wrong side of 30.   That means he'll get old fast.   I don't know when,  but at some point, he's going to show his age.   Our 2nd difference maker on defense is Davis, who most here seem to think runs hot and cold.   Good games and bad.    Good plays and bad.  

 

Then,  most everyone else seems to be a good solid player, but not great and not a difference maker.

 

Seattle's defense, and San Francisco's defense has difference makers everywhere.   On ever level of defense.   I just don't see it with the Colts.

 

I think we'll need a couple more exceptional drafts and free agents periods to build that....

 

Again,  I hope I'm wrong, but fear I'm not...

[Jason_]

I hope you're right, I really do...   but I fear you're not.

 

I don't see many difference makers on our defense.   And the biggest one, Mathis,  is on the wrong side of 30.   That means he'll get old fast.   I don't know when,  but at some point, he's going to show his age.   Our 2nd difference maker on defense is Davis, who most here seem to think runs hot and cold.   Good games and bad.    Good plays and bad.  

 

Then,  most everyone else seems to be a good solid player, but not great and not a difference maker.

 

Seattle's defense, and San Francisco's defense has difference makers everywhere.   On ever level of defense.   I just don't see it with the Colts.

 

I think we'll need a couple more exceptional drafts and free agents periods to build that....

 

Again,  I hope I'm wrong, but fear I'm not...

 

I agree that right now we have mostly solid players and not many true playmakers.  However we do have Werner and Hughes going into year two and a full offseason and draft to bring in another couple of playmakers.  I've said before that I felt last year was all about bringing in as many solid starters as they could.  They didn't go after any playmakers with the exception of maybe Landry...possibly Toler.  This year, we don't need nearly as many solid starters so they can spend more per person to bring in a couple of playmakers.

 

However, even with the lack of playmakers, the defense still played very well during the first portion of the season.  Then game the injuries to Toler and Wayne, which both happened almost simultaneously.  Without Wayne, the offense did not know how to move the ball so they began that stretch of complete first half ineptness.  At the same time, without Toler on the defense, they were trying to adjust coverage with Vaughn as the #2 CB.  It sucked that those injuries happened so close together, but in the long run it was a good learning experience.  Now, the offense knows it can survive without Wayne, and the defense figured out that Vaughn needs to go and that Davis - Butler - Gordy is a serviceable starting trio.

[Balzer40]

I wouldn't bet on that happening.

 

Nor do I think it's as easy as you suggest.

 

A dominant defense takes a number of years to build.

 

 

 

To be fair, I didn't say I would bet on it, but I agree with Jason that I do not think they are very far off from being a very good defense. They showed instances of it this season but were just very inconsistent. I do think that with a few upgrades on d-line, safety, possibly CB that we can be a on our way to a top defense.

 

One spot that we desperately need a serious upgrade at though is a true stud ILBer. That is an essential position for a 3-4 defense to be very effective and even though people love Freeman, he is no way, shape, or form, a true 3-4 ILBer. He's a good player and can be effective in our D, but he needs to be paired with a true 3-4 ILBer. Can all this be accomplished this offseason?

 

I believe it could be, but probably won't be because of our obvious needs on the O-line should be the top priority. With that said, I do believe with the right moves, this offseason could make us into a very well balanced team and we won't need to be truely dominant on offense or defense to get to where we all want. Hopefully Grigson comes through for all of us and brings in the right guys at the right positions. He needs to avoid offensive skill positions all together no matter how many times a lot of fans whine about us needing more weapons.

[chad72]

We may not get to a shutdown #1 D like Seattle but we can definitely try to finish top 10 in both pass D and run D with some improvements.

[SOMDColtsfan]

The Seahawk defense is unique and is going to be hard to duplicate. At some point everybodys going to want to be paid, Russell Wilson comes to mind, and they wont be able to keep everybody. 

[Coltsince4]

No doubt about it! Especially one that scores points!!!

[PeterBowman]

in regards to Seattle's Super Bowl win...yes, their D put in one of the best defensive performances in recent memory, but their offense was very very effecient and kept Manning off the field by converting 3rd down after 3rd down after 3rd down...this is where the team balance came in.....their O didn't light it up, but but did what it had to do and let the Defense stay rested and do it's thing when they were on the field.

[ColtsHappy]

Though I'm a Manning fan, I'm not a big fan of Elway (prima donna).  I laughed when the announcer had to request the AFC trophy from Elway to John Fox to let him hold it a little while. 

 

When asked about how an SB win would be, he called it a feather in his cap (as if he were the QB on the field).  I think Peyton looked at Denver and thought it was the team that had the most around him at the time he was looking for a team.  Tennessee was a joke.  I wonder if Peyton's reluctance to go to SF had to do with Harbaugh being there.  Not the he dislikes Harbaugh but there may tension between the two since Peyton cost Harbaugh his job in Indy.  Not sure.

There was a long winded dialog on the Sirius NFL channel yesterday about Peyton's decision to go with Denver. Anyone else hear it?  The moderators (wasn't paying attention to which ones, sorry) were describing in detail Peyton's decision to go to Denver, when Seattle and San Francisco both wanted him. Not sure if they had inside information from anyone in the Peyton camp - or if they were simply speculating - but they claimed that Peyton didn't want to face what was already the cream of the defenses in the NFL on a regular basis - (Seattle, SF, Arizona and even St. Louis). They claimed he was well aware that the defenses in the AFC were generally "softer" than the defenses in the NFC and that (according to them) weighed heavily in his decision to pick Denver.

 

Not sure if there is truth in this or not - just passing along the information....

[chad72]

There was a long winded dialog on the Sirius NFL channel yesterday about Peyton's decision to go with Denver. Anyone else hear it?  The moderators (wasn't paying attention to which ones, sorry) were describing in detail Peyton's decision to go to Denver, when Seattle and San Francisco both wanted him. Not sure if they had inside information from anyone in the Peyton camp - or if they were simply speculating - but they claimed that Peyton didn't want to face what was already the cream of the defenses in the NFL on a regular basis - (Seattle, SF, Arizona and even St. Louis). They claimed he was well aware that the defenses in the AFC were generally "softer" than the defenses in the NFC and that (according to them) weighed heavily in his decision to pick Denver.

 

Not sure if there is truth in this or not - just passing along the information....

 

I do think Peyton is a creature of habit and knowing tendencies of teams like the Ravens, Steelers, Patriots etc. has to help during the home stretch of his career. That had to be a bigger factor than fear of unfamiliar Ds, IMO. Just because Peyton did well vs the Ravens in 2013 does not mean the Ravens' D is soft or the AFC Ds are all "soft". If anything, Broncos had less experience with physicality in the playoffs going against offensive minded teams like Chargers and Patriots facing a not so good pass rush from their DL. The question was always "will the Broncos D hold up vs the chargers and Pats". 

 

So, with Peyton and the O controlling clock and time of possession in an unprecedented fashion this year, the D was kept on the sidelines longer and probably their deficiencies with lack of key personnel like Von Miller, Vickerson, Harris etc. was not exposed as much.

 

Now, I bet the entire AFC West is going to add personnel to get physical with the Broncos' OL. That is where the Colts should go too.