What can we do to improve our Defense?

[dudeski]

I wonder if Landry may have not been fully healthy down the stretch, He was awesome the first of the year. He's never going to be great in coverage though. I wish we had a safety like Earl Thomas so bad. That dude was ballin in the Seahawks and Saints game.

he was pretty bad all year

 

 

the dude is a bad football player.  i don't know why people don't see this

[coltfaninnewyork]

he was pretty bad all year

 

 

the dude is a bad football player.  i don't know why people don't see this

But hes dieseled,lol.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

we need byrd, and landry needs to go to tackling school. Maybe rehab for his gambling addiction as well.

[Coltsman1788]

Whatever we do to address this sham defense during the off-season won't work any better than any other of the franchise's other 30 years in Indianapolis.  When they unloaded the Mayflower...they forgot the defense! Softest defense in the league...perennially.

 

Yeah...I'm moping still. 

[Y2Jared]

Cut Landry

 

Not happening. A lot of people say "let's just cut this guy' but it does not work like that. especially after signing a rich new contract. If the Colts cut Landry, they lose $500,000+ against their cap on dead money. Nothing is gained, and cap is lost. They have to keep him and hope for better.

 

Greg Toler however should be on notice as the deal he signed lets the team cut him with a minimal loss, and you best believe they can spend $4.1 million dollars on somebody better.

 

Vontae must be resigned, a #2 corner must be signed, and most importantly, they need a NT that can stop the run and can push the O-Line back. We are not getting enough pressure up the middle. Mathis & Walden are doing too much of the work. Paul Soliai, Randy Starks are good candidates for a NT. BJ Raji is as well, but he had a pretty horrible 2013. 

How about picking up ILB that can Blitz and stop the run? Daryl Smith and Donald Butler are in the conversation, but what about signeing Karlos Dansby to a 2 year deal to help Freeman out and have a guy he can learn from. Dansby can play in a 4-3 and a 3-4. Scheme versatile and he stays healthy. 

 

All just ideas. 

 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

owner can fire dc any time he wants.

 

 

defense sucks it Greg Manusky  . luck score a lot points offense need center and a right guard from free agency rest the offense is fine

We lost so bad that this poorr man forgot how to speak english

[BOTT]

Improve the front seven. Other than Mathis it's just "guys" up front....no real difference makers.

[IUfan_Charlie]

Landry sucks, plain and simple, he can't do anything in coverage, takes a long time to make reads, AND AGAINST THE PATS HE MISSED 1 OUT OF EVERY 4 TACKLE ATTEMPTS. Toler is a below average corner that can't stay on the field, Bethea gets burned at least once a week, we need at least 1 new LB, our defensive scheme is a joke, 3 lineman will not stop the run, PERIOD.

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

keep them off the field and start strong on offense and quit falling behind every game

This, and stop turning the d@mn ball over. The offense did nothing to help the defense the

last two games!

[#12]

This, and stop turning the d@mn ball over. The offense did nothing to help the defense the

last two games!

 

Against KC, they were down 31-10 before Luck threw an INT. 

 

Last night was a different story - 14 points off turnovers, plus the Colts threw away points on the Havili INT.  That was the difference in the game. 

 

That said, the defense was far from what you need to win a championship.  Championship defenses force turnovers, hold teams to FGs, etc.  They forced no turnovers and gave up a TD on every red zone possession. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

I would encourage you to read the link below.

 

NO PROMOTIONAL POSTING ON THE SITE2013-articles/june/explaining-the-colts-3-4-defensive-line.html

very good read, but power linemen can push the o-line back and get off the block and make the tackle at the line. no where does the read say the line should not stop the run and  not come off a block and make the tackle for a loss. this is what power teams do. also what I get from the read the 3 tech and 5 tech are responsible for the rb that comes their way. the lbs should fill the gaps if the rb get through the line, which they shouldn't with power linemen.

[Paulballs]

Here is another way to help the D:

 

1) quit with the slow starts on offense.

2) too many 3 and outs, cut down on those

3) find a way to run the ball effectively

4) punch the ball in when you have 1st and goal at the 3

[Mr.Debonair]

I just want a nasty D like Carolina, SF, Seattle. If we gave 12 a D like that man we could run through this league. I love watching those Defenses play

[Paulballs]

I made this post somewhere else but it got buried.

 

The D didnt play as bad as the scoreboard suggested. With a minute and a half gone in the first quarter it was 7-0 based on the INT on the 3rd play. 

 

It was 21-15 in the 3rd quarter, the Pats had a 3rd and 8 and got bailed out by a terrible PI call, giving them the ball at the 5. After the Pats scored and converted the 2pts, it was 29-15. The Colts promptly scored a TD, making it 29-22. 

 

The D then forced (2) 3 and outs, but the offense put up a 3 and out of their own, then had a 5 play drive for a whopping 12yrds and a punt. After that was the Blount 73yrd TD and that was all she wrote.

 

So there is plenty of blame to go around to the whole team, offense included. Remember the 1st and goal at the 3 and couldnt score the TD? How about the offense punch the ball in and put 7 on the board to take a little pressure off the D. 

[Deathiltis]

Well we need to part ways with Landry and Toler for sure. Spend money wisely, and honestly, I think we need to move on from Manusky.

Unfortunately I don't think we do any of that.

[Jason_]

very good read, but power linemen can push the o-line back and get off the block and make the tackle at the line. no where does the read say the line should not stop the run and  not come off a block and make the tackle for a loss. this is what power teams do. also what I get from the read the 3 tech and 5 tech are responsible for the rb that comes their way. the lbs should fill the gaps if the rb get through the line, which they shouldn't with power linemen.

 

Contrarily, the 3-4 defense traditionally is a two-gap system. The two-gap focuses more on the linemen reacting to the blockers. Often, this ends in the linemen (especially the nose tackle) occupying space and controlling multiple offensive linemen, allowing the linebackers more time to react, read the play and make tackles.

When they're doing their jobs, the good/great 3 down linemen occupy the 5 offensive linemen consistently and that allows the LB's to tackle the ball carrier.  Now, the elite down linemen will also be able to take on 2 blockers, push through them and make plays on the ball carrier in the backfield.  However, the number of elite linemen that are able to do that on even a somewhat consistent basis are very rare and therefore extremely well paid.  With the salary cap there's no way to have guys all across the line that can do that consistently.  I do think Chapman will be able to become one of those guys but expecting that every one of your DL will be able to do that is simply unrealistic.

[OLD FAN MAN]

When they're doing their jobs, the good/great 3 down linemen occupy the 5 offensive linemen consistently and that allows the LB's to tackle the ball carrier.  Now, the elite down linemen will also be able to take on 2 blockers, push through them and make plays on the ball carrier in the backfield.  However, the number of elite linemen that are able to do that on even a somewhat consistent basis are very rare and therefore extremely well paid.  With the salary cap there's no way to have guys all across the line that can do that consistently.  I do think Chapman will be able to become one of those guys but expecting that every one of your DL will be able to do that is simply unrealistic.

that is what we need to strive for to get into a superbowl, get manhandler linemen not just average players who can only occupy the blockers, this is just average, it wont take us to the next level, we only need 3 men for this, we have to find players who can come off their blockers,imo grigs will find 3 players who fit that mold, if we cant get that we need better lbs who can break through the gaps and tackle for a loss,which I think you already pointed out. anyway thatks for putting me on to the good read.

[jlid]

Have Da'Rick Rogers play both ways.  Put any 10 scrubs around him, he'll take care of things

[Douzer]

Interior linemen, both sides of the ball.

[mintor]

get a pass rusher, cb  ss , ilb.

[rock8591]

3-4 DE, OLBs.

 

We need a Terrell Suggs player at OLB to put the fear into opposing RBs and QBs.

 

It's easier to get good stats when you have Ngata on the front line, but the rest of the Ravens D-Line is just average in general, with no other superstars.

[BOTT]

Landry sucks, plain and simple, he can't do anything in coverage, takes a long time to make reads, AND AGAINST THE PATS HE MISSED 1 OUT OF EVERY 4 TACKLE ATTEMPTS. Toler is a below average corner that can't stay on the field, Bethea gets burned at least once a week, we need at least 1 new LB, our defensive scheme is a joke, 3 lineman will not stop the run, PERIOD.

So you're saying a 34 team, like SF, can't stop the run. What have the Steelers and Dick LeBeau been thinking all these years?

[Superman]

I would say the same to you

 

Seriously, I've seen a hundred people complain about RJF, and have asked repeatedly for someone to point out to me what RJF has done wrong or badly. Crickets...

[Gavin]

Seriously, I've seen a hundred people complain about RJF, and have asked repeatedly for someone to point out to me what RJF has done wrong or badly. Crickets...

I think we have been using him wrong at times really, He has some explosiveness to him, quick off the ball, I think his talent is more along the lines suited for what the Texans did under Phillips in his system then he is a hold his ground 34  base DE, I think he did fairly well with what he was asked to do but I'd like alot more consistency in my 3-4 DE then what he gives

[Jason_]

I think we have been using him wrong at times really, He has some explosiveness to him, quick off the ball, I think his talent is more along the lines suited for what the Texans did under Phillips in his system then he is a hold his ground 34 base DE, I think he did fairly well with what he was asked to do but I'd like alot more consistency in my 3-4 DE then what he gives

You hated the RJF signing from the get go and frankly I think you're just being overly critical in an effort to try to be right about him. One has to keep in mind that this was his first year in our hybrid defense and his first as a full time starter plus he was banged up for part of the season. Keeping those things in mind he exceeded my expectations for his first year here and I'm excited to see what he does in year two.

[open window]

Suggs must be a Colt if available, please!

[swifty1812]

I would try all I can to sign Donald Bulter away from SD, then go for a safety like Kendrick Lewis or Nate Allen. Might end up having to let Bethea walk. re-sign Vontae and draft a CB to build up. I think that will go a long way. Butler would give us a solid pass covering LB and we could let Freeman do more blitzing that way. Lewis and Allen are both fairly solid in pass coverage and then we could put Landry in more of a position to roam closer to the line and not in coverage.

 

We won't be able to afford 2 high priced CBs in one year, so people have to just understand that Toler will be here next year, no matter what.

[IUfan_Charlie]

So you're saying a 34 team, like SF, can't stop the run. What have the Steelers and Dick LeBeau been thinking all these years?

a 3-4 with our personal cannot stop the run

[PeterBowman]

how much of the run stopping woes are on the DL or on the linebackers? I thought the DL was pretty stout but the linebackers (minus Freeman and Conner at times) left some to be desired

[ericdcoltsfan]

if a rb gets to the lbs and safeties they have made a gain, rbs should be stopped at the line for no gain by linemen

This statement tells me you have no clue how our defense even works. The lb's should absolutely be making the majority of tackles in this defense.

[OLD FAN MAN]

This statement tells me you have no clue how our defense even works. The lb's should absolutely be making the majority of tackles in this defense.

only in the gaps at the line , they should meet the rb there,not 5 yds in, also good linemen pull off their blockers and make the tackle at the line, I know how a 3-4 works and ours isn't working, good linemen don't just occupy their blockers they pull off and make the tackle, watch some other teams do this

[USAFHoosier]

The majority of these posts are the reason I don't hang around here all the time.  Im by far not an expert, but the lack of thought and or understanding of the Colts defensive system is mind blowing.

[Gavin]

You hated the RJF signing from the get go and frankly I think you're just being overly critical in an effort to try to be right about him. One has to keep in mind that this was his first year in our hybrid defense and his first as a full time starter plus he was banged up for part of the season. Keeping those things in mind he exceeded my expectations for his first year here and I'm excited to see what he does in year two.

Hated the RJF signing?.....Try again, I hated the amount of cash we forked over to him. In nowhere in my post was I overly critical, If you think me saying he is better suited for Wade Phillips aggressive 34 1 Gap system then you need to learn the difference between an opinion based on his physical skill set and hating a player..........Would you call an NFL coach "overly critical"? Because they break things down a whole hell of alot more then I just did in my post you quoted

[OLD FAN MAN]

The majority of these posts are the reason I don't hang around here all the time.  Im by far not an expert, but the lack of thought and or understanding of the Colts defensive system is mind blowing.

if we really knew football would we be on this forum or working for the colts? we try to understand , but we are just fans who want to win and offer our 2 cents, some might be right some might be wrong, we are just fans enjoying our team and giving opinions, don't expect any of us to be experts or you will stay disappointed. I just try to get fan fever from this forum and I get it here

[Tark The Shark]

I think we need another NT, ILB, and FS. 

 

I don't see the team signing Franklin, Connor, Angerer, or Bethea. 

 

Also Manusky is a guy I am not sure about. 87 points in 2 games is really bad, especially in big games like those. I would let him go, and see about getting a DC from college, like a Kirby Smart from Alabama (doubt he would actually be interested but he is just an example.)

[Superman]

I think we need another NT, ILB, and FS. 

 

I don't see the team signing Franklin, Connor, Angerer, or Bethea. 

 

Also Manusky is a guy I am not sure about. 87 points in 2 games is really bad, especially in big games like those. I would let him go, and see about getting a DC from college, like a Kirby Smart from Alabama (doubt he would actually be interested but he is just an example.)

 

I doubt we get rid of Manusky, but I agree with your first point entirely. Right up the middle of the defense, we have to get better. Chapman is better than Franklin, but we need someone behind him. We need a better partner for Freeman, maybe Conner, but I'd like to add someone like Donald Butler. And I don't know what to do at safety, but I don't think we should keep Bethea.

[Tark The Shark]

I doubt we get rid of Manusky, but I agree with your first point entirely. Right up the middle of the defense, we have to get better. Chapman is better than Franklin, but we need someone behind him. We need a better partner for Freeman, maybe Conner, but I'd like to add someone like Donald Butler. And I don't know what to do at safety, but I don't think we should keep Bethea.

 

Yeah Manusky definitely seems like he is staying. And frankly he did have some games where he coached very well, but I just don't see him as a good DC.

 

I don't really know what the FA pool is for the positions I talked about but I also agree. Chapman needs someone behind him because his health is still a concern. I can certainly see Howell taking Bethea's spot, but his health is also a concern. Freeman is a stud, we just need a big run stuffer ILB so Freeman is able to move around and make plays.

[Jason_]

Hated the RJF signing?.....Try again, I hated the amount of cash we forked over to him. In nowhere in my post was I overly critical, If you think me saying he is better suited for Wade Phillips aggressive 34 1 Gap system then you need to learn the difference between an opinion based on his physical skill set and hating a player..........Would you call an NFL coach "overly critical"? Because they break things down a whole hell of alot more then I just did in my post you quoted

 

Of course not.  I didn't say that to an NFL coach, I said it to you.  You are not an NFL coach.

 

 As for RJF, you hated the contract that he signed.  That's what I meant when I said you hated "the signing".  I get that it could have also meant that you didn't want him here in the first place so that part was my fault for not clarifying better.

 

Also, perhaps your familiarity with the Colts defense is not as refined as you might have thought.  You said that RJF would be better suited for Wade Phillips' gap penetrating 1-gap system correct?  As I believe you and many others have pointed out before, the Colts don't run a strict 2-gap 3-4.  It's a hybrid. 

 

NO PROMOTIONAL POSTING ON THE SITE2013-articles/june/explaining-the-colts-3-4-defensive-line.html

 

The 3-tech defensive end is usually sealing off the backside of runs, and needs to be able to hold his ground and keep the edge, but is more of a chaser from the backside and gap penetrator in pass rush.

 

RJF is the 3-tech being referenced here, so his job is as a gap penetrator in pass rush, which is what he would be in Wade's defense.  Therefore, your assertion that he would better suited for Wade's defense than ours doesn't really hold water since his responsibilities would be the same either way.

[USAFHoosier]

if we really knew football would we be on this forum or working for the colts? we try to understand , but we are just fans who want to win and offer our 2 cents, some might be right some might be wrong, we are just fans enjoying our team and giving opinions, don't expect any of us to be experts or you will stay disappointed. I just try to get fan fever from this forum and I get it here

Just because someone understands football doesn't mean they would work in football.  A lot of people are gear heads but don't work in a mechanics shop.  Someone offering their opinion is great, but when they are corrected but refuse to listen its aggravating.  I don't go around giving my thoughts on quantum physics as fact because I have little knowledge on the subject.  Sometimes its better to sit back, learn, ask questions, and not give oblivious thoughts as fact.  I get corrected all the time and try to learn more about the subject for that purpose. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

Just because someone understands football doesn't mean they would work in football.  A lot of people are gear heads but don't work in a mechanics shop.  Someone offering their opinion is great, but when they are corrected but refuse to listen its aggravating.  I don't go around giving my thoughts on quantum physics as fact because I have little knowledge on the subject.  Sometimes its better to sit back, learn, ask questions, and not give oblivious thoughts as fact.  I get corrected all the time and try to learn more about the subject for that purpose. 

why don't you tell all of us who don't understand football  defenses, how the colts defense really works,if you share your knowledge with us and we finally understand ,maybe we wont say dumb things and you will stay on here more.