Bad Routes Or Bad Passes?

[King Colt]

Yesterday's passing game against the Bengals like other games before are not only bad they are not even close. Guys are dropping passes but the routes seem to be way off or Luck is not on page with his receivers. I think Luck throws the ball too high on occasion but something very bad is happening in the pass game. To me it doesn't pan out that the guys are running bad routes this late in the game. If it is a route problem then the staff needs to keep it simple so the boys know where each other is. We look like the New Orleans Saints -remember them??  

[Dustin]

Both.

[Narcosys]

Horrible passes. Either all our receivers dont know the playbook every game, or someone just cant throw consistently well. My guess is the later.

[sfergson727]

Their third and short passing routes are abysmal. How many times this year have we seen them launch a 20 yard pass only to go three and out, because it was 3 and a few. When you only need 3 yards, why are we sending guys deep?

Conversely, we were facing a 3 and 9, and we elect to do a screen pass, that already failed once in the same drive, for a gain of 2. If that is not the definition of incompetence, I don't know what is.

[JoKeR]

Luck> our receivers

Is it really a question?

[Slick_Rick]

At the end of the day, we our receivers are not that great. If they aren't running the right routes at the right depth, that's coaching. If they aren't catching the ball, that's them. Luck isn't getting all day to throw. He is doing the best he can. I think if it were on him, then his ints would be much higher. Yes, he probably has a handful of throws a game that he'd like back. This isn't madden folks.

[jameszeigler834]

Horrible passes. Either all our receivers dont know the playbook every game, or someone just cant throw consistently well. My guess is the later.

You guys why is it everytime the colts lose it isn't how bad they played as a team for why they lost or whatever its always luck didn't do this or he didn't do that its not on luck he made really good throws yesterday are you guys blind you win and lose as a team.

[lollygagger8]

We ran one slant yesterday. One. Rogers took it to the house. Why was this not repeated?!?

 

We only throw passes to RB's at the end of the game when the D is playing prevent??? WOW. 

 

When is Pep going to learn that DHB can only catch crossing routes? (where he can do his little Mario jump thing) 

 

Also, some of these route trees that we run are asinine. Where we have one receiver 10 yards out, one 20 yards out, and one 30 yards out but in the same part of the field. The opposing D has several DB's in the same area as well. 

 

Luck did have a few high passes, but I think Rogers and Brazil are still getting the timing down and developing chemistry with Luck.TY is getting boxed out/double teamed a lot. Fleener was open on a few passes that Luck never threw to him as well. 

 

Lastly, 

Not having more designed rollouts, and/or running plays for Luck is just being flat out stubborn by Pep. Also, we need to come right out of the gate and run no huddle. Like, A LOT.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Luck just has not been on the head accurate recently.  He's a little overthrown. Then a little underthrown.  then a little behind a receiver. Then really sails one.  Not very often does he hit a guy right on the numbers in stride.  I put that on Luck, but it could be receivers running imprecise routes too.  dalton was throwin perfect over the should TD passes to his guys.  Luck needs to develop that timing and chemistry with this young WR core.

[Gavin]

Its both........Example: 10:39 3rd Quarter vs Bengals Luck threw a screen pass to Donald Brown, #93 for the Bengals came off the edge and Brown got to much of him trying to chip him...Brown fell down which led to the ball being thrown over his head........Luck needs to work on his ball placement as well

[Dudley Smith]

Luck has about 1.5-2 seconds on average before he is feeling pressure from our sieve of an OL getting steamrolled back into his face. He immediately has to improvise and move a certain direction to avoid immediately being sacked. It is very difficult to throw bullet, spot on passes when you are constantly improvising and worried about being sacked. On top of this, the receivers do not run the greatest routes due to inexperience or physical limitation. Add in the fact that Luck's #2 receiver (until yesterday) has hands of stone and Luck has no confidence in, and you have what amounts to a mammoth task being presented to Luck in order to make precision passes.

 

To suggest that Andrew Luck is THE problem with the passing game is foolish IMO. I think primarily it is the OL, secondly the receivers, and lastly Luck. I am not saying Luck is without fault, because he does sometimes sail passes. But its difficult to throw precision strikes when you are getting bombarded by d-linemen and linebackers on nearly every snap. When he has time to throw, he makes the throw. Luck also is dealing with an offensive coordinator who refuses to acknowledge his primary play-style strength (the hurry up offense), and an offensive coordinator who has some of the most vanilla play-calling in the NFL.

[hoosierhawk]

Luck has about 1.5-2 seconds on average before he is feeling pressure from our sieve of an OL getting steamrolled back into his face. He immediately has to improvise and move a certain direction to avoid immediately being sacked. It is very difficult to throw bullet, spot on passes when you are constantly improvising and worried about being sacked. On top of this, the receivers do not run the greatest routes due to inexperience or physical limitation. Add in the fact that Luck's #2 receiver (until yesterday) has hands of stone and Luck has no confidence in, and you have what amounts to a mammoth task being presented to Luck in order to make precision passes.

 

To suggest that Andrew Luck is THE problem with the passing game is foolish IMO. I think primarily it is the OL, secondly the receivers, and lastly Luck. I am not saying Luck is without fault, because he does sometimes sail passes. But its difficult to throw precision strikes when you are getting bombarded by d-linemen and linebackers on nearly every snap. When he has time to throw, he makes the throw. Luck also is dealing with an offensive coordinator who refuses to acknowledge his primary play-style strength (the hurry up offense), and an offensive coordinator who has some of the most vanilla play-calling in the NFL.

 

Agree. Our 'hall of fame' WR had two balls hit his hands that he didn't bring in. As they say if you get your hands on it it's catchable. Reggie catches those routinely.

With Rogers, he will improve his timing with AL. Brazill maybe but he's had almost two years and their not there yet. Rogers seems to dog it if the plays not to him but hopefully coaches break him of that. There are certain routes that DHB is very effective on. Run the damn routes (crossing patterns) and be happy with him doing that. That seems the extent of what he's capable of now but utilize his strength. I personally liked the dump pass over the middle to the RBs. Will eventually open up the rest of the field.

OL looked better in pass protection but that is all relative. Need to have the passing game open up the run game rather than the other way around. We keep banging our head against a wall thinking we need to run the ball when we have no chance with the OL we have. Roll AL out of the pocket to give him more time to throw.

Don't want to be critical of the coaching as I don't know the whole story but they seem either be clueless or down right hard headed about changing anything. We don't have a great team at this time so we need to find our strengths and play to our strengths and not try to be something we're not.

[ColtsFaithful]

It could be just me ... But I was pretty happy with the passing game yesterday when comparing it to the last few games. I mean ... Yesterday Luck was 29 for 46 ... 326 yards for 4 TD passes. His QB rating was 113.1. Honestly I see nothing to complain about - Yes overall we lost the game, but this is a great improvement to the passing game we saw against both games against Tennessee or against Arizona.

 

During the last quarter when we had some great hurry up offense going. There were a lot of short completions moving the chains that opened up a few longer passes. Again - aside from the fact that we lost that game, which isn't all the the fault of Luck or the receiver corps (See 42 points given up) I think we showed a great improvement from the last few games in the pass game. I for one am happy to see that progress.

 

It's worth mentioning that Luck is on  pace to likely break his season total for TD passes last year, and throw MUCH less INT's. It doesn't seem like it because of some of the games we've seen, but Luck is improving with each game, and i'm ecstatic with his play throughout the first two years. I know he will continue to do well. He just needs more of years of experience and more consistency at the receiving corps. Who know's Luck and our receivers after building a better raport in the next few games could impress come playoff time.

[OffensivelyPC]

Sometimes he holds onto the ball too long, but usually it's because he's getting pressured before he can get back into his drop and make his first read.

[sfergson727]

It could be just me ... But I was pretty happy with the passing game yesterday when comparing it to the last few games. I mean ... Yesterday Luck was 29 for 46 ... 326 yards for 4 TD passes. His QB rating was 113.1. Honestly I see nothing to complain about - Yes overall we lost the game, but this is a great improvement to the passing game we saw against both games against Tennessee or against Arizona.

 

During the last quarter when we had some great hurry up offense going. There were a lot of short completions moving the chains that opened up a few longer passes. Again - aside from the fact that we lost that game, which isn't all the the fault of Luck or the receiver corps (See 42 points given up) I think we showed a great improvement from the last few games in the pass game. I for one am happy to see that progress.

 

It's worth mentioning that Luck is on  pace to likely break his season total for TD passes last year, and throw MUCH less INT's. It doesn't seem like it because of some of the games we've seen, but Luck is improving with each game, and i'm ecstatic with his play throughout the first two years. I know he will continue to do well. He just needs more of years of experience and more consistency at the receiving corps. Who know's Luck and our receivers after building a better raport in the next few games could impress come playoff time.

Look at his stats for the 1st half...that's where the disappointment lies. Not all of it is Luck's fault though, in fact, most of it falls on Pep, and the O-line.

[needanoline63]

There were the drops, but luck had some poooor throws in that game

[sfergson727]

There were the drops, but luck had some poooor throws in that game

Particularly early. For a time, I was wondering if the ball was a solid chunk of ice, as he kept throwing it short...way short.

[BlueCollarColts]

Didn't see the game, but Luck finished with about 350 yards and 4 TDs, so was it really that bad?

[throwing BBZ]

Their third and short passing routes are abysmal. How many times this year have we seen them launch a 20 yard pass only to go three and out, because it was 3 and a few. When you only need 3 yards, why are we sending guys deep?

Conversely, we were facing a 3 and 9, and we elect to do a screen pass, that already failed once in the same drive, for a gain of 2. If that is not the definition of incompetence, I don't know what is.

 

Well of course you send someone deep to clear out space underneath. Doesn`t mean you are dumb enough to throw to them unless  the receiver is clearly open. WE don`t throw it, he does. He doesn`t see the whole field that well, no doubt somewhat because he has gotten used to NO TIME, thank you Grigson.

[sfergson727]

Well of course you send someone deep to clear out space underneath. Doesn`t mean you are dumb enough to throw to them unless  the receiver is clearly open. WE don`t throw it, he does. He doesn`t see the whole field that well, no doubt somewhat because he has gotten used to NO TIME, thank you Grigson.

I could see sending someone deep with a four receiver set, but if I remember right, on that formation, we had two WR's, a TE and RB. I'd think a quick slant would be a much better call. (I can't remember the exact formation, so if I am mistaken, forgive me.) As for the rest, I agree.

[kjyb]

Yesterday's passing game against the Bengals like other games before are not only bad they are not even close. Guys are dropping passes but the routes seem to be way off or Luck is not on page with his receivers. I think Luck throws the ball too high on occasion but something very bad is happening in the pass game. To me it doesn't pan out that the guys are running bad routes this late in the game. If it is a route problem then the staff needs to keep it simple so the boys know where each other is. We look like the New Orleans Saints -remember them??  

we did good except dhb lol 

[kjyb]

You guys why is it everytime the colts lose it isn't how bad they played as a team for why they lost or whatever its always luck didn't do this or he didn't do that its not on luck he made really good throws yesterday are you guys blind you win and lose as a team.

yepp

[kjyb]

Didn't see the game, but Luck finished with about 350 yards and 4 TDs, so was it really that bad?

not at all luck and receiver played great it was the defense that killed us 

[jwilli69]

not at all luck and receiver played great it was the defense that killed us

Ou must have not watched the game and are looking at the stat line because that offense was atrocious in the first half again. Passing yards of plus 300 seems great and 4 TD all look spectacular but look at the defense the other team played to allow them to play. The last drive with all the throws to the RB for 10 yards 4 or 5 times in a row had the defense 20 yards off in the umbrella prevent look and little time to win the game. The offensive sets we put out there are garbage and teams good and bad just play simple defense and lock us down.

I can't seem to understand the continued play of need 3 yards throw it 20 yards deep and the need 15 throw it 3 yards on an out or in the flat. Maybe Pep sees the other teams doing that against our crappy defensive scheme and thinks they get 15 yards on a screen pass or a dump off to a rb, so can we. I just don't understand how coaches devising plays can do it so generic and poorly, how did they make it to this level?

[ricker182]

It's the offensive line. You can't complete (most) routes in 1.5 seconds.

[Narcosys]

You guys why is it everytime the colts lose it isn't how bad they played as a team for why they lost or whatever its always luck didn't do this or he didn't do that its not on luck he made really good throws yesterday are you guys blind you win and lose as a team.

Have you seen his passes lately?  Tons are over thrown or under thrown or behind his targets.  Even when he is not being rushed, he misses his target.  Unfortunately in this league, the QB gets all the credit and the blame.  Or Blaine Gabbert is a good QB and his team just sucks.

[Balzer40]

Have you seen his passes lately?  Tons are over thrown or under thrown or behind his targets.  Even when he is not being rushed, he misses his target.  Unfortunately in this league, the QB gets all the credit and the blame.

 

 

 

I have repeated this countless times, but the reason for Luck's throws being off is because he has lost all confidence in his O-line. He has been hurried and sacked more than any other QB again this yr.. 2 yrs. in a row he's dealt with a horrible O-line and even when they do give him a little time(which is very few and far between), he is still in hurry up mode. It's not his fault that he has been forced to make hurried throws since he's been here and I just imagine that if he would be honest with the media, he'd say he's sick to death of not having consistent blocking. Of course he wouldn't throw his O-line under the bus like that, he's not RG3. He's probably doing just as well(if not better) as 98% of the QB's in the league if they had to play behind our atrocious O-line for the last 2 yrs..

[indy1888]

It's a combination.  Luck is throwing to a lot of guys who either weren't on the team 6 weeks ago or who were not getting any playing time.  You have to build a chemistry there. Some of the throws are off, some of the routes are not at the depth Luck expects them to be. The biggest problem i think is that Luck lacks confidence with his receivers, especially DHB.  He is not comfortable and it really shows up on 3rd down.

[Narcosys]

I have repeated this countless times, but the reason for Luck's throws being off is because he has lost all confidence in his O-line. He has been hurried and sacked more than any other QB again this yr.. 2 yrs. in a row he's dealt with a horrible O-line and even when they do give him a little time(which is very few and far between), he is still in hurry up mode. It's not his fault that he has been forced to make hurried throws since he's been here and I just imagine that if he would be honest with the media, he'd say he's sick to death of not having consistent blocking. Of course he wouldn't throw his O-line under the bus like that, he's not RG3. He's probably doing just as well(if not better) as 98% of the QB's in the league if they had to play behind our atrocious O-line for the last 2 yrs..

That Cinci game was not the worst it has been, nor do i think it was that bad as far as O-line play.  But his passes were bad.

[Balzer40]

That Cinci game was the worst it has been, nor do i think it was that bad as far as O-line play.  But his passes were bad.

 

 

 

Yeah there was some bad throws, but like I said, when he knows he's going to be rushed on almost every snap, then he feels like he has to rush his throws. I'm not even bringing up the fact that he's had to throw to one of the most worthless pieces of crap WR's to ever play the game for most of the season and even when he throws him a perfect pass, he still drops it consistently. I just hope they fix this problem once and for all next yr. because they're going to destroy him if they don't. 

[Narcosys]

Yeah there was some bad throws, but like I said, when he knows he's are going to be rushed on almost every snap, then he feels like he has to rush his throws. I'm not even bringing up the fact that he's had to throw to one of the most worthless pieces of crap WR's to ever play the game for most of the season and even when he throws him a perfect pass, he still drops it consistently. I just hope they fix this problem once and for all next yr. because they're going to destroy him if they don't. 

Ya O-line should be top priority, id stick with the receivers we have now, even DHB, in exchange for a solid line.  I dont count drops as bad passes.

[dgambill]

I think it is everyone's fault and at the same time not their fault. The scheme we have don't fit the OL we have. Luck holds onto the ball too long but he also has too long but he doesn't take enough snaps in shotgun imo. Peyton avgs 2.1 secs per pass. If we had a great OL we could carry out long play actions and/or sit in the pocket ie Tom Brady and survey the field. I'm not saying Pep isn't a good coach...he just doesn't have the personel to execute his game plan. If you don't have the mean, tough, over-powering OL to pound the rock like they do at Stanford and then run these PA passes what good does it do. He isn't going to change his whole coaching scheme....he needs players to execute it. Luck is probably getting a little skidish and yet probably has little confidence in his receivers...forcing him to throw the ball into bad windows or overthrow trying to fit it in. Fact is you dont have to have the best OL in football to be able to throw the ball...if your qb recognizes defenses and gets rid of the ball fast...but Luck isn't there yet...I'm sure he will get there but not yet. He isn't Peyton Manning...and may never ever be...we have very high expectations...perhaps too high.

 

The real issue....we got a taste of success before we were ready for it. Rebuilds are not suppose to happen in one year....and in fact they don't happen in one year but because we over-achieved/are in the worst division in professional football we thought we were better than we are. We are thin in every position and not good at the point of attack in the trenches (where football is won and lost). Coaches are doing the best they can but the team just isn't good enough to do what we would like them to. Like it or not...we are AFC South division champs by DEFAULT not because we are a dominant or even top 10 team. We need a lot of players still to compete legitly for a SB.

[RobSam]

Luck just has not been on the head accurate recently.  He's a little overthrown. Then a little underthrown.  then a little behind a receiver. Then really sails one.  Not very often does he hit a guy right on the numbers in stride.  I put that on Luck, but it could be receivers running imprecise routes too.  dalton was throwin perfect over the should TD passes to his guys.  Luck needs to develop that timing and chemistry with this young WR core.

I'm sorry...but I've seen at least 6 passes over the last few games hit DHB either on the chest or on his face......either way that is not underthrown or over thrown...........the game just changes when its third down and 5 or 6 and DHB gets hit in the chest with a ball and he just drops it........It is SO SO Frustrating to see him do it again and again.....and unfortunately its mostly on Third down when we NEED the catch to keep going. Luck has thrown an errant pass here and there but for crying out loud...when the ball hits you in the numbers or bounces off your facemask then it's the receiver....not the QB. And after watching Rogers yesterday in Cincy it is apparent his hands are WAY better than DHB....so is his YAK..........My vote is to sit DHB and play Rogers and Brazil way more.

[RobSam]

Their third and short passing routes are abysmal. How many times this year have we seen them launch a 20 yard pass only to go three and out, because it was 3 and a few. When you only need 3 yards, why are we sending guys deep?

Conversely, we were facing a 3 and 9, and we elect to do a screen pass, that already failed once in the same drive, for a gain of 2. If that is not the definition of incompetence, I don't know what is.

I think the real issue here is there is NO imagination when it comes to play calling....PEP isn't very creative at all.   It's the same problem they have in the beginning of the game......that's why we don't get off to a fast start...there's no aggression....there's no down field shots......PEP just wants to run Richardson into the back of the Oline and hope something breaks.....unfortunately whats breaking is our own backs......how many times can Luck bring us back from being down 14 or 21 points. They really need to throw away his "first 15 scripted plays" and get down to some real football.......yes yes, I know you have to establish the run game.....but it what if they popped it down field several times and then went back to the run........at this point ANYTHING would be better than the current play calling......

[jameszeigler834]

Have you seen his passes lately?  Tons are over thrown or under thrown or behind his targets.  Even when he is not being rushed, he misses his target.  Unfortunately in this league, the QB gets all the credit and the blame.  Or Blaine Gabbert is a good QB and his team just sucks.

That's crap all the highlights I have seen for luck is good passes and people are blind so he has struggled a little bit you would too if you lost your best WR.

[Narcosys]

That's crap all the highlights I have seen for luck is good passes and people are blind so he has struggled a little bit you would too if you lost your best WR.

You said it yourself.  All the highlights.  Thats the only thing highlights show guy...the good stuff.  Im pretty sure if you put together a 'Lowlights' it would be more.  A person ability to hit a receiver in stride or even being near their receiver has NOTHING to do with losing one receiver.  That is on him. 

[Surge89]

I think it is a combination of things. For sure I think Luck has been off.  Whether due to an oline issue or mental it is pretty apparent Luck is at fault to a degree.  But I also believe the oline and inexperience of the receivers that have something to do with it as well.  

 

Anyone who is attempting to blame Pep is then in turn blaming the same guy that got him in position to be the first overall...  Not likely...  

 

So in context I would say it is a snowballing effect of no oline meaning Luck has mental lapses, meaning inexperienced receivers not getting balls on point, meaning Luck then questioning if they will even be there, which means Luck holds on longer than he has to, which means the oline looks even more worse than they already are, which all ends in Receivers than not getting enough time to get into a route/running an incorrect route or Luck just flat out not seeing them...  Nightmare lol  Now I would fault Pep for design problems.  If pep would run more off tackle and out of the shotgun we would probably see Luck get even more time than what he has had.

[Old Colt]

Both.

YES!

[Superman]

We ran one slant yesterday. One. Rogers took it to the house. Why was this not repeated?!?

 

We only throw passes to RB's at the end of the game when the D is playing prevent??? WOW. 

 

When is Pep going to learn that DHB can only catch crossing routes? (where he can do his little Mario jump thing) 

 

Also, some of these route trees that we run are asinine. Where we have one receiver 10 yards out, one 20 yards out, and one 30 yards out but in the same part of the field. The opposing D has several DB's in the same area as well. 

 

Luck did have a few high passes, but I think Rogers and Brazil are still getting the timing down and developing chemistry with Luck.TY is getting boxed out/double teamed a lot. Fleener was open on a few passes that Luck never threw to him as well. 

 

Lastly, 

Not having more designed rollouts, and/or running plays for Luck is just being flat out stubborn by Pep. Also, we need to come right out of the gate and run no huddle. Like, A LOT.

 

Did I write this?? I feel like I wrote this...

 

Luck did underthrow the deep ball to Hilton, the one that was tipped at the last minute. For the most part, however, Luck was on point. I don't even understand the premise of this thread, after a game when he completed 63% of his passes, something he hasn't done in months. 

[Le Neon]

Favre used to throw a little wild and high early till he settled down. So far I see a bit of that in Luck, with fewer of the gunslinger risky throws.