Worst 3-4 DLine group in the league? [Merge]

[SteelCityColt]

Time to get some more t-shirts printed? It worked pretty well last season

[GoColts8818]

Yeah well last year they thought we were the worst team in the league...guess we have to prove them wrong again...

[ell_chrisso]

Would much rather the media didn't rate out chances than having to live up to high expectations. It's a long off season, they find ways to burn the time

[CroatianColtsFan21]

The worst D-line with Corry Redding and Robert Mathis, Vontae Davis...and we've added Landry too. Not to mention Bjoern Werner who generates high expectations.

 

Huh...?

 

d-LINE! not the whole defense...

[Gavin]

Let um talk because just like leaving a stadium dead silent after some fans home team suffers a shocking loss it will be almost as sweet to shut all them talkers up!..........again

[British_Colt]

d-LINE! not the whole defense...

 To be fair they did also say that the corners and LB's were one of the worst units in the league as well.  

[HungarianColtsFan]

d-LINE! not the whole defense...

 

Considering only the D-line, I still believe, that this line with Mathis, Redding, Angerer wasn't such bad, and it was upgraded by adding Walden and Sheppard. Not to mention that this unit is just in transition from 4-3 to 3-4 system.

 

In short: I haven't seen much reasoning behind the classification.

[Crunked]

Nothing would please me more to suck a little further into the playoffs this year.........

[OldSchoolColt]

To be a fan, do you have to "believe" that your players are better than they are? We have an aged NT as our only stud on the d-line. Our cornerbacks are way below average except for Vontae. Our linebackers are either playing in a systems not designed for them or have not provin themselves. Even Mathis didn't have awesome numbers last year and has only one year in the 3-4, ever changing, hybrid system. And a couple of days ago, they said our RB tandem of Ballard and Brown were second from the worst in the NFL. That is number 31 out of 32. How can you argue that one. Not by stats. They ranked the top 30 RB's, and we didn't have one on the list. Our O-line wouldn't make average. None of this, of course, addresses all of our other positives. We do have a lot of players with potential. We went 11-5 last year due to wicked coaching, low expectations from other teams and a LOT of Luck.

[Archer]

This guy's an *.  Particularly on the LB corps.  Pro Bowl OLB Mathis, 1st rounder Werner, and three outstanding ILBs.  I bet he doesn't know who Jerrell Freeman is.  CBs - fine.  They need to distinguish themselves as proven options, so if you're going to write a moronic article like this, it's okay to put the Colts as honorable mention.  DL - he's way off again.  He didn't even have the right starter at NT.  And he called the depth, which includes Moala, Nevis, Hughes, McKinney, Mathews, etc., shaky.  This might lack a big name star, but it is pretty good depth all around.  This is another guy trying to be an expert on all 32 teams and failing miserably.  Funny thing is, with everything but our safety corps being at least honorable mention, this guys is going to look like an * unless our D is colossally bad!  Save the link and heckle him around mid-season!

[Archer]

Sorry, I didn't know you couldn't say 1di0t around here...;)

[Jay Kirk]

Heres what ive got to say about the analysis they put out :bag:   They forget Josh Chapman not even mentioned Hughes we just got in the draft Nevis wich has never been healthy,wich the OL BEAST  from Alabama said was the best DL he ever played against.Gavin said let them talk , LOL Gavin you nailed that one.They will get shut up.Some of you take every word they say as gospel,I wouldn't be one of those.They also underestimate the teaching ability of Pagano and Manusky.To say theres no depth was just ludicrous.Can tell they took the homework on the analysis seriously  They just talk to hear themselves and expect the fans to take it at gospel,and the ones who don't know any better and don't know football will do just that,unfortionately for them im not one of them AND NO ONE IN THIS FORUM SHOULD BE EITHER !!!! GO COLTS      

[lollygagger8]

Is the writer related to or married to Brad Wells? 

[NewEra]

Put it on a tshirt and let the dline wear it!!we see how that worked out for us last year!

[Smonroe]

Sorry, I didn't know you couldn't say 1di0t around here...;)

That's offensive. We preferred to be called "mentally ...."... I forgot the next word...

[AntonMcG]

Considering only the D-line, I still believe, that this line with Mathis, Redding, Angerer wasn't such bad, and it was upgraded by adding Walden and Sheppard. Not to mention that this unit is just in transition from 4-3 to 3-4 system.

 

In short: I haven't seen much reasoning behind the classification.

 

Do you know what a D-Line is? Linebackers are not members of the D-Line.....

[AntonMcG]

Heres what ive got to say about the analysis they put out :bag:   They forget Josh Chapman not even mentioned Hughes we just got in the draft Nevis wich has never been healthy,wich the OL BEAST  from Alabama said was the best DL he ever played against.Gavin said let them talk , LOL Gavin you nailed that one.They will get shut up.Some of you take every word they say as gospel,I wouldn't be one of those.They also underestimate the teaching ability of Pagano and Manusky.To say theres no depth was just ludicrous.Can tell they took the homework on the analysis seriously  They just talk to hear themselves and expect the fans to take it at gospel,and the ones who don't know any better and don't know football will do just that,unfortionately for them im not one of them AND NO ONE IN THIS FORUM SHOULD BE EITHER !!!! GO COLTS      

 

So we should shepherd ourselves from all media outlets who do not reap praise upon the Colts and believe that every decision our front office make is undoubtedly gospel?

 

I like to develop my own informed and all-encompassing opinion. Thanks for the advice though.

[Kevin Bowen]

Couldn't disagree more.

 

The offseason additions plus the return of Chapman will greatly enhance the defensive front.

 

A little depth chart pondering---let's say RJF/Nevis, Chapman/Franklin, Redding/Moala. You still have guys like Hughes, Guy, Rico, McKinney, Tevaseu who will be battling to fill out the final spots.

[Jay Kirk]

So we should shepherd ourselves from all media outlets who do not reap praise upon the Colts and believe that every decision our front office make is undoubtedly gospel?

 

I like to develop my own informed and all-encompassing opinion. Thanks for the advice though.

Exactly the point I was making 

Edited May 15, 2013 by Nadine
personal shot

[Rich Cannon]

Couldn't disagree more.

 

The offseason additions plus the return of Chapman will greatly enhance the defensive front.

 

A little depth chart pondering---let's say RJF/Nevis, Chapman/Franklin, Redding/Moala. You still have guys like Hughes, Guy, Rico, McKinney, Tevaseu who will be battling to fill out the final spots.

 

I think we finally have a suitable starting line but aside from Drake Nevis/Mckinney I have to agree with the article our depth is pretty sub par and unproven thus far.  But I do believe we will be leaps and bounds better than we were last year with the addition of Hughes etc. 

[AntonMcG]

Exactly the point I was making Genius :hmm:

 

Oh I know that wasn't your point, but it is what you do. You are the empitome of a hypocrite with your constant portrayal of every Colt as a unique, unheralded, high-ceiling prospect, whilst denouncing anyone in the media who does the opposite.

[chad72]

Chapman is unproven, so is Montori Hughes, McKinney is coming off an injury, Redding is getting long in the tooth and Moala may start on PUP. Revis and Rico Mathews were drafted primarily for the 1-gap style and would possibly playing 2-gap DEs.

 

Then, RJF is the young gun who has not been a starter we will rely on and Aubrayo Franklin has not had a stellar last year with the Saints though he was a glove that did not fit in that Spagnuolos 4-3 in 2012, and there was a reason why the 49ers let him go from their 3-4 D in 2011.

 

After looking at the above with objective eyes, it is more fan optimism that would make the D-line look better than it can truly be given credit for with play on the field. Mathis is an LB, so he does not count for the DL anymore for the 3-4.

[Narcosys]

I don't get it. Is this judging last years or this years? Last years I understand, but he mentions only 1 pickup for this year.

[BrentMc11]

Couldn't disagree more.

 

The offseason additions plus the return of Chapman will greatly enhance the defensive front.

 

A little depth chart pondering---let's say RJF/Nevis, Chapman/Franklin, Redding/Moala. You still have guys like Hughes, Guy, Rico, McKinney, Tevaseu who will be battling to fill out the final spots.

Can you answer the question as to how Moala is progressing Kevin?  I was concerned about that knee...and a non-guaranteed contract this year.  I agree with your assessment...the unit is "enhanced."  I know we are not going to be bad....Gary Emanuel...Grigs brought in the likes of Guy, Heard, Geathers...Tevaseau.  They came in and played hard and well enough to stick and make big plays.  Emanuel is a teacher.....see Cliff Avril and Ryan Kerrigan!!!

 

The new additions along with Chapman.....are going to make this article irrelevant ...as it is in my mind already!!!      

[coltsfanatic24]

We were ranked 32 in power rankings last year and by the end of the season we were ranked 11. I think we can make the same jump on the defensive side of the ball.

[BrentMc11]

Considering only the D-line, I still believe, that this line with Mathis, Redding, Angerer wasn't such bad, and it was upgraded by adding Walden and Sheppard. Not to mention that this unit is just in transition from 4-3 to 3-4 system.

 

In short: I haven't seen much reasoning behind the classification.

I know you know the 3-4 HCF.  We have discussed it man times.  It is like some people calling our DTs DEs...They are defensive tackles.  I saw a couple of comments here, and it kind of reminds me of the old Abbott and Costello "Who's on First."    Here is the updated diagram follow by the awesome video!!  For those wondering....this is a baseball analogy...I truly am NOT mistaking the 3-4 for baseball!        

 

[Jay Kirk]

Couldn't disagree more.

 

The offseason additions plus the return of Chapman will greatly enhance the defensive front.

 

A little depth chart pondering---let's say RJF/Nevis, Chapman/Franklin, Redding/Moala. You still have guys like Hughes, Guy, Rico, McKinney, Tevaseu who will be battling to fill out the final spots.

Lol Kevin I see you have some understanding of the personell we have to form our DL,your assessment is spot on .Refreshing glad to see you can analyze and form an eduacated opinion for yourself

[Jay Kirk]

The worst D-line with Corry Redding and Robert Mathis, Vontae Davis...and we've added Landry too. Not to mention Bjoern Werner who generates high expectations.

 

Huh...?

HCF good point ,they may not be on the DL but they are most deffinately part of the 3-4 :thmsup: Mathis and Werner    Have to spell that out so everyone knows what I mean

[bestQBever]

I think its fair assessment. We just got better on paper, with slightly better talents than what we had before.

[AntonMcG]

Exactly the point I was making 

 

No, if that was the point you were making, then people would not read what they liked, and their opinion would not be richer for seeing every observation, not just those with rose-tinted glasses. I doubt you have watched every one of our D-Line players extensively throughout their career, as most of them haven't played much for the Colts... so you often have to rely on articles, stats and opinions of both experts and those on here which you value. So you are being contradictory to tell people not to read articles that are derogatory toward the Colts.

 

This is probably not the worst D-Line in football (3-4 I would imagine is the Saints), and it is probably not the best.

 

What this unit has is potential, but most other teams have more proven players, we have only Redding, who is getting on a bit. I like the fact that we have invested in scheme-fits... i.e. hold the line, tie up as many blockers as possible, and allow nobody through the middle. Will they do that? I hope so... but there is no evidence at this point.

[BOTT]

I enjoy article on NFL.com from their actual football people, but their regular columnist/contributors are horrible. Adam Schein, Chris Wessling, Gregg Rosenthal, Adam Rank, and Dave Damesheck would love to be mediocre.

If you think Rosenthal is off base, you should check out Dameshek's best receiving core list....he has the 49ers #1.

[BrentMc11]

Heres what ive got to say about the analysis they put out :bag:   They forget Josh Chapman not even mentioned Hughes we just got in the draft Nevis wich has never been healthy,wich the OL BEAST  from Alabama said was the best DL he ever played against.Gavin said let them talk , LOL Gavin you nailed that one.They will get shut up.Some of you take every word they say as gospel,I wouldn't be one of those.They also underestimate the teaching ability of Pagano and Manusky.To say theres no depth was just ludicrous.Can tell they took the homework on the analysis seriously  They just talk to hear themselves and expect the fans to take it at gospel,and the ones who don't know any better and don't know football will do just that,unfortionately for them im not one of them AND NO ONE IN THIS FORUM SHOULD BE EITHER !!!! GO COLTS 

I know we discussed this Jay, but I have been in hospital 'heck' since then....Was that Fluker or Warmack that mentioned Nevis?...there were a couple of LSU lineman that said the same about trying to handle Chapman:  They did not even though he was on 1 leg.

 

Two things other than the above that I like about this post

 

• I have stated this many times before reading on Colts.com...."The Colts coaches are great teachers"

l Mentioned Manusky was not the best DC in the world when we hired him...that he is respected for teaching and it has shown. Emanuel has already been mentioned in my post above.  Fitzgerald at LB coach...(Freeman/enough said)  Gillhamer and Ray Anderson....do not get enough credit in the secondary...Vontae Davis improved by 100% after week one...Butler came in off of the street.  I look forward to Landry getting some tips from both!!

 

• The media:  HMMMMM!  How can I put it mildly or do I even want to?       Today's media sucks to say the least.  True stories and False stories both have sensationalism out to get a 'rise' out of readers and in this case fans.

I think in sports this is worse with the Schefters and Mortensons and Claytons of the world in a hurry to get their  Insider information to the fans first.  This causes some falsehoods....

 

I also think that some of these clowns (Just like this NFL.com clip have preconceived notions of which fan base they want to get a rise out  of.)  Just like last week when Shipley was traded and our forum went nuts for the most part.  Paul Kuharsky knew that 90+ % of the fans disagreed with the trade.  He subsequently wrote in favor of the trade "even though Shipley played better than Satele."  Was he 'trying' to get a rise out of Colt fans?  Who knows?  We watch as Marshall Faulk consistently say little condescending comments...just a couple of examples.  (Faulk not truly a journalist, but acts as color for NFL's news..thus 'media.')

 

Lastly. there is nothing wrong with liking this Colts football team.        When we compare the 90 we will have this year as opposed to the 90 last year to start, I look forward to a compare and contrast.  Remember we ALL needed a "program" all the way up through the preseason.  We may with our FAs as well....but this team is a whole lot deeper...With a Montori Hughes as a back-up,  Chapman or Franlin backing up one another, we have competition and depth at 'almost' every position. (Still concerned about secondary and to some extent OL.) Time to play football....and yes the media is fun....but we need to go on the battlefield and win this war in the trenches....and make them eat a lot more than crow...I think you all know what word I was really thinking!!!       !!!!

[Jay Kirk]

No, if that was the point you were making, then people would not read what they liked, and their opinion would not be richer for seeing every observation, not just those with rose-tinted glasses. I doubt you have watched every one of our D-Line players extensively throughout their career, as most of them haven't played much for the Colts... so you often have to rely on articles, stats and opinions of both experts and those on here which you value. So you are being contradictory to tell people not to read articles that are derogatory toward the Colts.

 

This is probably not the worst D-Line in football (3-4 I would imagine is the Saints), and it is probably not the best.

 

What this unit has is potential, but most other teams have more proven players, we have only Redding, who is getting on a bit. I like the fact that we have invested in scheme-fits... i.e. hold the line, tie up as many blockers as possible, and allow nobody through the middle. Will they do that? I hope so... but there is no evidence at this point.

First of all not telling anyone to read or watch or not to read or watch anything ,I do my own research such as scrutinizing film plus some articles if its a trusted columnist,but you have it all figured out.And for the Remark that I agree with every thing this Organization does is ludicrous,case in point read the AQ Shipley trade thread.Hypocrite is a very strong word be real glad your on the other end of the computer,I don't make it a personal habit of trying to tear people down you shouldn't either

[Gavin]

The mark of a great coach is more then a W and L but is sometimes the difference between that W and that L is his ability to adjust his scheme around the talent he has UNTIL such time IF EVER he gets the exact players he needs or wants to run a certain scheme his exact way.....Just thinking out loud here

[Jay Kirk]

I know we discussed this Jay, but I have been in hospital 'heck' since then....Was that Fluker or Warmack that mentioned Nevis?...there were a couple of LSU lineman that said the same about trying to handle Chapman:  They did not even though he was on 1 leg.

 

Two things other than the above that I like about this post

 

• I have stated this many times before reading on Colts.com...."The Colts coaches are great teachers"

l Mentioned Manusky was not the best DC in the world when we hired him...that he is respected for teaching and it has shown. Emanuel has already been mentioned in my post above.  Fitzgerald at LB coach...(Freeman/enough said)  Gillhamer and Ray Anderson....do not get enough credit in the secondary...Vontae Davis improved by 100% after week one...Butler came in off of the street.  I look forward to Landry getting some tips from both!!

 

• The media:  HMMMMM!  How can I put it mildly or do I even want to?       Today's media sucks to say the least.  True stories and False stories both have sensationalism out to get a 'rise' out of readers and in this case fans.

I think in sports this is worse with the Schefters and Mortensons and Claytons of the world in a hurry to get their  Insider information to the fans first.  This causes some falsehoods....

 

I also think that some of these clowns (Just like this NFL.com clip have preconceived notions of which fan base they want to get a rise out  of.)  Just like last week when Shipley was traded and our forum went nuts for the most part.  Paul Kuharsky knew that 90+ % of the fans disagreed with the trade.  He subsequently wrote in favor of the trade "even though Shipley played better than Satele."  Was he 'trying' to get a rise out of Colt fans?  Who knows?  We watch as Marshall Faulk consistently say little condescending comments...just a couple of examples.  (Faulk not truly a journalist, but acts as color for NFL's news..thus 'media.')

 

Lastly. there is nothing wrong with liking this Colts football team.        When we compare the 90 we will have this year as opposed to the 90 last year to start, I look forward to a compare and contrast.  Remember we ALL needed a "program" all the way up through the preseason.  We may with our FAs as well....but this team is a whole lot deeper...With a Montori Hughes as a back-up,  Chapman or Franlin backing up one another, we have competition and depth at 'almost' every position. (Still concerned about secondary and to some extent OL.) Time to play football....and yes the media is fun....but we need to go on the battlefield and win this war in the trenches....and make them eat a lot more than crow...I think you all know what word I was really thinking!!!       !!!!

It was Warmack Brother,good point on Chapman,We all know that's no patsy conference

[AntonMcG]

First of all not telling anyone to read or watch or not to read or watch anything ,I do my own research such as scrutinizing film plus some articles if its a trusted columnist,but you have it all figured out.And for the Remark that I agree with every thing this Organization does is ludicrous,case in point read the AQ Shipley trade thread.Hypocrite is a very strong word be real glad your on the other end of the computer,I don't make it a personal habit of trying to tear people down you shouldn't either

 

Yes because sarcastically referring to someone as a 'genius' as a perfectly friendly remark. Thank goodness I have my computer to protect me.

 

You suggested people do not read this articles, to presumably form their own opinions, but articles, good and bad, help form opinions.

[BrentMc11]

I enjoy article on NFL.com from their actual football people, but their regular columnist/contributors are horrible. Adam Schein, Chris Wessling, Gregg Rosenthal, Adam Rank, and Dave Damesheck would love to be mediocre.

If you think Rosenthal is off base, you should check out Dameshek's best receiving core list....he has the 49ers #1.

I am not a fan of either NFL.com or ESPN football analysts, but we have to get our football 'fix' somehow.  Especially in the off season.  WOW on the Dameshek list...WOW!  

[BrentMc11]

The mark of a great coach is more then a W and L but is sometimes the difference between that W and that L is his ability to adjust his scheme around the talent he has UNTIL such time IF EVER he gets the exact players he needs or wants to run a certain scheme his exact way.....Just thinking out loud here

Gavin...this is exactly right....we are talking here about the DL.....with what we had we were still 11-5.

 

We can also take tat to the OL.  For what we had (injuries included and the Olsens/Hills of the world...we were 11-5)

 

Ready for the season to roll!    

[Jay Kirk]

Gavin...this is exactly right....we are talking here about the DL.....with what we had we were still 11-5.

 

We can also take tat to the OL.  For what we had (injuries included and the Olsens/Hills of the world...we were 11-5)

 

Ready for the season to roll!    

[chad72]

The biggest difference is the coaching, IMO. If we picked up guys off the street and managed to get key 3rd down stops so that Luck could do his thing in the 4th qtr., the fan optimism can definitely extrapolate a higher ceiling with better guys signed on paper.

 

But it still does not change the fact that we have less to quantify and evaluate those on the DL on paper. One more year should give all the answers.