Andrew Luck Is he the real deal or not

[bleed blue4life]

Sorry but as a lifelong Colts fan from Baltimore and still one today, I watch EVERY SINGLE GAME on Direct tv. I am just not sure Luck will ever live up tp his billing, Forget the yards and touchdowns , will this guy ever learn to read a defense and check off , yea I know the line has been a problem but this guy continues to throw into double coverage and his on one week off one week and saying every week in his pressers I made some bad decisions is getting a little old . Fans I am just not sure if he will ever be as good as advertised . Thoughts?????

[#12.]

Had Tom Brady or Joe Montana played with this defense and surrounding team for their entire careers, had they played under Chuck instead of Belichick and Walsh, they would have zero rings between them.  

[jshipp23]

He is more Elway than Manning, and we are basically neuturing him not allowing him to run like he used to which is what made Elway so great..He still locks in on Ty Hilton and if he is covered dumps it off to TE or RB..Coaching and playcalling is slowing his development..We should be using Dorsett in the slot on underneath short routes to get him the ball in space like the Cowboys use Cole Beasley..Our offense is very predictable..Luck needs to learn to go through his progressions Carr is already ahead of him in this aapect..If Luck will look to his 3rd or 4th read Dorsett and Moncreif are open a LOT, and have been all year..

[Flash7]

54 minutes ago, bleed blue 4 life said:

Sorry but as a lifelong Colts fan from Baltimore and still one today, I watch EVERY SINGLE GAME on Direct tv. I am just not sure Luck will ever live up tp his billing, Forget the yards and touchdowns , will this guy ever learn to read a defense and check off , yea I know the line has been a problem but this guy continues to throw into double coverage and his on one week off one week and saying every week in his pressers I made some bad decisions is getting a little old . Fans I am just not sure if he will ever be as good as advertised . Thoughts?????

1. First let's discuss Luck's "billing" when coming into the league. He was touted as the best prospect to come out since Manning or Elway. Please note that he was not Manning or Elway in their prime, as many fans were expecting. Most fans compare a young Andrew Luck to a polished, experienced, veteran Manning or Elway, which is just unfair. Neither Manning nor Elway had won a Super Bowl within their first 5 years.

 

2. What would it look like if Luck was as good as advertised? Would it include throwing for the most yards ever by a rookie, in 2012? Throwing for the most yards in a single game as a rookie ( 2012 vs. Dolphins). Or winning 11 games three years in a row, while leading the team to the playoffs, and reaching the AFC Championship game? Leading the league in TD passes in 2014? Or throwing for the second most TDs of any QB in NFL history, within their first 60 games (only behind Marino)? 

 

3. The thing is, Luck is doing all that he is supposed to do...as advertised. How about the team? Is the defense playing well? NOPE --not the entire time Luck has been a Colt.  How about the O-line? Are they playing well? NOPE-- not the entire time Luck has been a Colt. How has the coaching been? Average, below average?

 

As fans, we expect Luck to rise above all of this, regardless of the challenges placed in front of him. He is a hell of a quarterback, not a miracle worker.

[jshipp23]

5 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

1. First let's discuss Luck's "billing" when coming into the league. He was touted as the best prospect to come out since Manning or Elway. Please note that he was not Manning or Elway in their prime, as many fans were expecting. Most fans compare a young Andrew Luck to a polished, experienced, veteran Manning or Elway, which is just unfair. Neither Manning nor Elway had won a Super Bowl within their first 5 years.

 

2. What would it look like if Luck was as good as advertised? Would it include throwing for the most yards ever by a rookie, in 2012? Throwing for the most yards in a single game as a rookie ( 2012 vs. Dolphins). Or winning 11 games three years in a row, while leading the team to the playoffs, and reaching the AFC Championship game? Leading the league in TD passes in 2014? Or throwing for the second most TDs of any QB in NFL history, within their first 60 games (only behind Marino)? 

 

3. The thing is, Luck is doing all that he is supposed to do...as advertised. How about the team? Is the defense playing well? NOPE --not the entire time Luck has been a Colt.  How about the O-line? Are they playing well? NOPE-- not the entire time Luck has been a Colt. How has the coaching been? Average, below average?

 

As fans, we expect Luck to rise above all of this, regardless of the challenges placed in front of him. He is a hell of a quarterback, not a miracle worker.

Once Luck gets better coaching and playcalling he will be the BEST qb in the league as advertised. .The coach and playcalling have hampered him a lot..He has all the tools, the perfect QB hw just needs to get the mental part down..He doesn't audible out of bad plays a lot of the time, isn't much of a vocal leader either..Give him a year with Manning or Gruden teams he will start decimating teams..

[Nostrils]

Oh godddddd...

[Flash7]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

Once Luck gets better coaching and playcalling he will be the BEST qb in the league as advertised. .The coach and playcalling have hampered him a lot..He has all the tools, rhe perfect QB hw just needs to get the mental part down..He doesn't audible out of bad plays a lot of the time, isn't much of a vocal leader either..Coaching and playcalling have hurt him a lot..

Respectfully, and not to be argumentative, I disagree with the portion in bold. As fans, since we do not know the signals or audibles, we cannot assess whether Luck changed the play or not. There have been many, many times where Luck looked like he was making play calls (audibles) at the line of scrimmage. He just doesn't do the over-the-top gesturing that Manning used to do.

 

Luck is a vocal leader and one of the most competitive people in sports. His teammates will be the first one to tell you. There have been numerous stories about this, and you can see Luck pacing the sidelines talking to his teammates every game. He leads vocally and by example. He just doesn't put his teammates down or yell at them, (which to some people is good, vocal leadership). I would disagree.

[gacoop1]

I believe with the right coach he can overcome his flaws.  The coach can set the tone with Luck, communicate with him at every play, I don't see this with Pags.  What is Chud doing upstairs anyway not involving himself on the field, giving a pat on the back with the QB, communicate with him at every down, needs somebody that's involved in the action....

[ztboiler]

At the end of year 5....Luck is hampered by only 1 thing....too many voices.  

 

His own, authentic voice, sounds a lot like:  Just win, baby!  Mistakes don't matter if we win.

 

Now the voices say:  Win, but be mistake free!  

 

Add multiple OC's, different offensive identities, lack of an offensive identity, some really poor offensive game planning....and you end up with just a hint of confusion and hesitation.

 

Give Luck a consistent, clear, offensive identity for the next 10 years and you'll win at least 2 Superbowls.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, ztboiler said:

At the end of year 5....Luck is hampered by only 1 thing....too many voices.  

 

His own, authentic voice, sounds a lot like:  Just win, baby!  Mistakes don't matter if we win.

 

Now the voices say:  Win, but be mistake free!  

 

Add multiple OC's, different offensive identities, lack of an offensive identity, some really poor offensive game planning....and you end up with just a hint of confusion and hesitation.

 

Give Luck a consistent, clear, offensive identity for the next 10 years and you'll win at least 2 Superbowls.

Agreed, I think he is hesitant and in his own head...This coaching staff is doing their best to ruin a once in a generation talent..

[21isSuperman]

Luck has shown the ability to look off defenses and make check downs.  His decision making needs some improvement and I just think he needs a coaching staff that will hammer those things into him.  For what it's worth, I think he was overhyped coming into the league as people were saying his game had no flaws and he was a perfect QB bound for the Hall of Fame.  But he has the talent and intelligence to be a multiple time MVP.  Luck is not the piece holding this team back

[jshipp23]

Perfect example is the Jax game on 4th and 1 with game on the line..He could have easily run for the 1st down and we probably would have won the game..Instead he tried to throw it to Allen..I think he had the coaches in the back of his head saying avoid injury to not take the risk..Early in his career Luck would have run...You got to let Luck be Luck, you can get hurt anytime, Luck has been hurt once in 5 yrs really, he is a big strong physical guy who can run which makes him special..Can't play scared. ..

[Solon]

He's the real deal, but the decision making is a legitimate question. He played his best football this season,  so we'll see if he continues on that upward trend next season. I do question what he sees at times.

[UKColt13]

Oh man. Really dude?

 

Okay, the one year Luck had a good supporting cast and a halfway decent defense, he took us to the AFCCG and was an MVP candidate. 

 

Nothing has changed. The reason we sucked this year was not 12. It was only 12 who kept us from being a 3/4 win team.

[Bigbadbill]

8 minutes ago, Solon said:

He's the real deal, but the decision making is a legitimate question. He played his best football this season,  so we'll see if he continues on that upward trend next season. I do question what he sees at times.

If this was his best then the original poster was correct. He holds the ball almost three seconds. No OL will be able to protect him doing that. He still can't read a defense. He still locks in on one receiver and misses other receivers who are open. The biggest problem is that he just hasn't improved any in five years. In fact, all of the punishment he has taken had set him back. None of these things is Pagano's fault and none of them will improve when Chuck leaves.

[Bigbadbill]

11 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

Oh man. Really dude?

 

Okay, the one year Luck had a good supporting cast and a halfway decent defense, he took us to the AFCCG and was an MVP candidate. 

 

Nothing has changed. The reason we sucked this year was not 12. It was only 12 who kept us from being a 3/4 win team.

I don't see that. I didn't see Luck leading the team to victories all by himself. I think any journeyman QB would have about the same record as Luck did. Remember last year, the team won more games without Luck than with him. Luck's supporting cast in that AFCCG year was not that much different than what we have now. The Colts didn't belong in that game either as the score showed. The big problem is the Colts have lost their grip on the South and closer to the bottom of it than the top.

 

[Tsarquise]

17 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

Oh man. Really dude?

 

Okay, the one year Luck had a good supporting cast and a halfway decent defense, he took us to the AFCCG and was an MVP candidate. 

 

Nothing has changed. The reason we sucked this year was not 12. It was only 12 who kept us from being a 3/4 win team.

Like he kept the Colts from being a 3-4 win team last year. 

 

19 minutes ago, Solon said:

He's the real deal, but the decision making is a legitimate question. He played his best football this season,  so we'll see if he continues on that upward trend next season. I do question what he sees at times.

 

I would argue that he hasnt played his best ball this year. He isn't as clutch this year at all. I can't remember any game winning drives off the top of my head. Although I do remember a bunch of drops from the Wide receivers this year. 

[jshipp23]

To be fair defense was decimated by injuries at every level this yr..Not and excuse for the coaching which cost us 2 games by themselves, but just saying..I think the defense will be much better next year no matter what..I think they'll add the pieces at olb, ilb, and cb to be decent next year even if we keep Nogano...

[UKColt13]

Just now, Tsarquise said:

Like he kept the Colts from being a 3-4 win team last year. 

 

He played at a good level when he was healthy last year.  Sadly he got beat to hell and ended up being shut down. Not his fault. I don't think Tom Brady would play at a high level with cracked ribs and a flat out bad Oline. I don't see how you can blame him for losses where he didn't play or was playing injured.

[Flash7]

5 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Like he kept the Colts from being a 3-4 win team last year. 

 

 

I would argue that he hasnt played his best ball this year. He isn't as clutch this year at all. I can't remember any game winning drives off the top of my head. Although I do remember a bunch of drops from the Wide receivers this year. 

You keep looking at 2015: the year Luck got his shoulder injury, a lacerated kidney, etc... and using that year as a barometer. I think we can all agree...that year is the outlier for Luck's performance. Then he was replaced by 4 other QBs because they were all getting hurt behind the same O-line.

[Coltsman1788]

1 hour ago, bleed blue 4 life said:

Sorry but as a lifelong Colts fan from Baltimore and still one today, I watch EVERY SINGLE GAME on Direct tv. I am just not sure Luck will ever live up tp his billing, Forget the yards and touchdowns , will this guy ever learn to read a defense and check off , yea I know the line has been a problem but this guy continues to throw into double coverage and his on one week off one week and saying every week in his pressers I made some bad decisions is getting a little old . Fans I am just not sure if he will ever be as good as advertised . Thoughts?????

He was over hyped coming out of college.  He had a nice start to his career but has failed to evolve his game and on field I.Q.  Thus, his development has been stunted.  He continues to make bad throws, poor decisions and turn the ball.  His self depreciating pressers are wearing thin minus improvements in his game.  He is what he is right now...a  solid to good but not  elite QB in this league. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

He is more Elway than Manning, and we are basically neuturing him not allowing him to run like he used to which is what made Elway so great..He still locks in on Ty Hilton and if he is covered dumps it off to TE or RB..Coaching and playcalling is slowing his development..We should be using Dorsett in the slot on underneath short routes to get him the ball in space like the Cowboys use Cole Beasley..Our offense is very predictable..Luck needs to learn to go through his progressions Carr is already ahead of him in this aapect..If Luck will look to his 3rd or 4th read Dorsett and Moncreif are open a LOT, and have been all year..

 

I hear people bashing Dorsett all the time for his route running, but there are several plays each game that I see him wide open. Luck either doesn't see him, or he doesn't trust him. I don't know which.

[Coltsman1788]

12 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

 

He played at a good level when he was healthy last year.  Sadly he got beat to hell and ended up being shut down. Not his fault. I don't think Tom Brady would play at a high level with cracked ribs and a flat out bad Oline. I don't see how you can blame him for losses where he didn't play or was playing injured.

In games he played last year the Colts were 2-5.  They had a better record without him.  In the opener, when Luck was fully healthy, he played horribly in a loss to the Bills and under performed the following week in a Monday night loss to the Jets.  Luck started stinking up the joint before he even got hurt.  He did not have a good season last year by any means.  His best game in a winning effort was an upset win over Peyton's Broncos. 

[UKColt13]

4 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

In games he played last year the Colts were 2-5.  They had a better record without him.  In the opener, when Luck was fully healthy, he played horribly in a loss to the Bills and under performed the following week in a Monday night loss to the Jets.  Luck started stinking up the joint before he even got hurt.  He did not have a good season last year by any means.  His best game in a winning effort was an upset win over Peyton's Broncos. 

 

He was also being held back by Pep still being OC. The Broncos game of I remember right was Chud's first game as OC, and Luck looked great, until he got hit and lacerated his kidney the same game.

 

I'm not going to argue the he played amazingly all last year. But let's not start saying he's not arguably an elite level quarterback.

[colts8718]

2 hours ago, bleed blue 4 life said:

Sorry but as a lifelong Colts fan from Baltimore and still one today, I watch EVERY SINGLE GAME on Direct tv. I am just not sure Luck will ever live up tp his billing, Forget the yards and touchdowns , will this guy ever learn to read a defense and check off , yea I know the line has been a problem but this guy continues to throw into double coverage and his on one week off one week and saying every week in his pressers I made some bad decisions is getting a little old . Fans I am just not sure if he will ever be as good as advertised . Thoughts?????

Of course he just ask Pagano and Grigson they would not have jobs if it where not for him

[OffensivelyPC]

LOL.  Just stop. 

[Superman]

Yes. 

[Clem-Dog]

Without question.

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, bleed blue 4 life said:

Sorry but as a lifelong Colts fan from Baltimore and still one today, I watch EVERY SINGLE GAME on Direct tv. I am just not sure Luck will ever live up tp his billing, Forget the yards and touchdowns , will this guy ever learn to read a defense and check off , yea I know the line has been a problem but this guy continues to throw into double coverage and his on one week off one week and saying every week in his pressers I made some bad decisions is getting a little old . Fans I am just not sure if he will ever be as good as advertised . Thoughts?????

He is the third best qb in franchise history.   So if your an old Baltimore colts fan,  You should know that

[OffensivelyPC]

9 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He is the third best qb in franchise history.   So if your an old Baltimore colts fan,  You should know that

I gotta laugh when someone in their 50s or more worries and/or complains like a millenial. 

[a06cc]

Statistically he is on his way. The only thing I don't like about his game is timing. He still needs to throw guys open instead of waiting for them to get open. That ball needs to come out a half second sooner. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Flash7 said:

1. First let's discuss Luck's "billing" when coming into the league. He was touted as the best prospect to come out since Manning or Elway. Please note that he was not Manning or Elway in their prime, as many fans were expecting. Most fans compare a young Andrew Luck to a polished, experienced, veteran Manning or Elway, which is just unfair. Neither Manning nor Elway had won a Super Bowl within their first 5 years.

 

2. What would it look like if Luck was as good as advertised? Would it include throwing for the most yards ever by a rookie, in 2012? Throwing for the most yards in a single game as a rookie ( 2012 vs. Dolphins). Or winning 11 games three years in a row, while leading the team to the playoffs, and reaching the AFC Championship game? Leading the league in TD passes in 2014? Or throwing for the second most TDs of any QB in NFL history, within their first 60 games (only behind Marino)? 

 

3. The thing is, Luck is doing all that he is supposed to do...as advertised. How about the team? Is the defense playing well? NOPE --not the entire time Luck has been a Colt.  How about the O-line? Are they playing well? NOPE-- not the entire time Luck has been a Colt. How has the coaching been? Average, below average?

 

As fans, we expect Luck to rise above all of this, regardless of the challenges placed in front of him. He is a hell of a quarterback, not a miracle worker.

Great Post. Looking at his first 5 seasons he has been Good if not Very Good. Give him any kind of Defense and we will be right back to 11-5's again and winning Playoff games. People seem to forget it took the Great Peyton Manning 9 seasons before he won a SB.

[Coltsman1788]

1 hour ago, UKColt13 said:

 

He was also being held back by Pep still being OC. The Broncos game of I remember right was Chud's first game as OC, and Luck looked great, until he got hit and lacerated his kidney the same game.

 

I'm not going to argue the he played amazingly all last year. But let's not start saying he's not arguably an elite level quarterback.

Pep wasn't holding Luck back...he was just a popular scape goat around here. Luck did perfectly fine the previous season when he reached the AFC Championship with Pep.   Pep was no where to be found this season and Luck continues to make ill advised throws, miss receivers and turn the ball over.  So is Chud holding him back now? 

 

Luck is paid as an elite QB in the league.  That's the only way he can be considered elite right now.  Highest paid QB.  But he has not reached or earned elite status as of yet.  There are only a few QBs who are universally referred to as elite right now and their names are Brady, Rogers, Rothlisberger and Brees.  Luck is widely regarded by most non-Colts NFL fans to be somewhere in the next tier of passers with the likes of Newton, Rivers, D. Carr, Wilson, Dalton, Romo (when healthy), etc.

[Coltsman1788]

29 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He is the third best qb in franchise history.   So if your an old Baltimore colts fan,  You should know that

That has yet to be determined. Some of us still hold Bert Jones in pretty high regard.  Luck is still raw...his best is yet to come hopefully.

[jvan1973]

9 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

That has yet to be determined. Some of us still hold Bert Jones in pretty high regard.  Luck is still raw...his best is yet to come hopefully.

You may hold Jones in high regard,  but luck is better than he was in every category

[Coltsman1788]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You may hold Jones in high regard,  but luck is better than he was in every category

Yeah I can't argue against the numbers there and I can understand why most would place Luck 3rd.  Jones was affected some by his injury in 78 as he wasn't the same after that.  Also  for most of his career teams only played 14 games.   But as far as intangibles such as on field presence, savy and moxiness, I'd take Jones over Luck right now.  My opinion will likely change if Luck ever starts to figure it all out.  

[Bigbadbill]

It was a different era and hard to compare players to the passing game played today with so much contact disallowed. I think Jones was better than Luck at this point. That might change but I think Luck's flaws are mostly permanent and they are not going to get better.

[VocableLoki]

2 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Pep wasn't holding Luck back...he was just a popular scape goat around here. Luck did perfectly fine the previous season when he reached the AFC Championship with Pep.   Pep was no where to be found this season and Luck continues to make ill advised throws, miss receivers and turn the ball over.  So is Chud holding him back now? 

 

Luck is paid as an elite QB in the league.  That's the only way he can be considered elite right now.  Highest paid QB.  But he has not reached or earned elite status as of yet.  There are only a few QBs who are universally referred to as elite right now and their names are Brady, Rogers, Rothlisberger and Brees.  Luck is widely regarded by most non-Colts NFL fans to be somewhere in the next tier of passers with the likes of Newton, Rivers, D. Carr, Wilson, Dalton, Romo (when healthy), etc.

Luck is having his best season in terms of turnovers. His completion percentage, QBR and rating are all career highs. He has definitely progressed from a year ago and is making smarter throws from his first three seasons. Pep may not have been holding him back, but Chud is doing a better job with play calling, Luck is not as reliant on the long ball as he had been in the past. 

 

As for the "Elite" argument: the QB's you named (Brees, Rothlisberger, Rodgers and Brady) look at Luck's 2016 compared to theirs: pretty close overall. 

 

I cannot comprehend the number of posts/topics on Andrew Luck here, with arguments seeming to boil down to "he didn't look as good this year" or "he didn't lead us to as many wins." Luck put us in a position to win in all but a handful of games. Luck will be an elite quarterback barring injury going forward.

 

With all the problems on this team, dissecting Luck's play just seems like wasted energy. All but a few teams in the league would love to have Luck on their team.

[will426]

5 minutes ago, VocableLoki said:

Luck is having his best season in terms of turnovers. His completion percentage, QBR and rating are all career highs. He has definitely progressed from a year ago and is making smarter throws from his first three seasons. Pep may not have been holding him back, but Chud is doing a better job with play calling, Luck is not as reliant on the long ball as he had been in the past. 

 

As for the "Elite" argument: the QB's you named (Brees, Rothlisberger, Rodgers and Brady) look at Luck's 2016 compared to theirs: pretty close overall. 

 

I cannot comprehend the number of posts/topics on Andrew Luck here, with arguments seeming to boil down to "he didn't look as good this year" or "he didn't lead us to as many wins." Luck put us in a position to win in all but a handful of games. Luck will be an elite quarterback barring injury going forward.

 

With all the problems on this team, dissecting Luck's play just seems like wasted energy. All but a few teams in the league would love to have Luck on their team.

True he's not as reliant on the deep ball but the play calling still calls too many deep to intermediate routes and not enough short routes to help our receivers get Yac

[VocableLoki]

11 minutes ago, will426 said:

True he's not as reliant on the deep ball but the play calling still calls too many deep to intermediate routes and not enough short routes to help our receivers get Yac

True, you would think Hilton/Dorsett would benefit there