Holmes to G?

[ColtsFanMikeC]

I am pretty excited about the Kelly pick.  Holmes, to me, is a very solid back-up C (if he could stay healthy and improve his consistency, I think he has talent to be a starting C in this league).

 

Anyway, some knocks on Holmes as a C when he was coming out of college was he is tall and doesn't play with enough bend in his knees to be a solid NFL center, and many projected teams would move him to G at the NFL level.

 

I think Thornton has some of the same issues as Holmes (i.e., he can be inconsistent, and he has had some injury issues --- Thornton also seems to be inconsistent with his strength/size).  I think we are set now (assuming health) for a while at LT, LG, and C..... would it be an upgrade to the OL to have Holmes compete and maybe take over as our RG?  Or better to just keep him at back-up C.  My scare if we move him to RG is if he gets hurt, we may be stuck with Harrison if anything happens to Kelly.  The positive, however, would be if Kelly got hurt and Holmes was healthy, he could move to C and Thornton (or someone not on the roster yet) could come in at RG.

 

I'm still a bit concerned about RT -- I like Reitz, and think Good has some potential but don't trust he is 'there' yet.  Personally, I like it better when Reitz is on the bench, as I think he is a very solid back up at LT, LG, RG, and RT.

 

Regardless of what we do, I think this pick should give us a lot of comfort that our C play should be improved and that our line will be more versatile and potentially has the option of moving players around.

[Dustin]

Why does everyone want Reitz a on the bench? Am I taking crazy pills?!

[BlueShoe]

It is VERY early, but I have a gut feeling that Thornton is going to play much better in a zone blocking scheme. 

 

Right now I would say our line looks like this:

 

Castonzo, Mewhort, Kelly, Thornton, Good

 

Reitz is the swing tackle and backup guard. 

 

But it is too early to make any calls just yet.

[BlueCollarColts]

2 minutes ago, Dustin said:

Why does everyone want Reitz a on the bench? Am I taking crazy pills?!

I want Reitz to start, but I would prefer him to start at one of the guard spots, I think he is a lot better there versus at tackle. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, Dustin said:

Why does everyone want Reitz a on the bench? Am I taking crazy pills?!

 

Because the Colts have often said they value Reitz for his ability to fill-in at almost any OL position.   They value him as a 6th man OL.

 

But,  the Colts have also said they didn't feel the need to draft an OT in this class,  so it would seem they feel with Reitz starting somewhere.

 

 

[Coltfreak]

Holmes should be done in Indy   he had his chance and failed miserably.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

I am pretty excited about the Kelly pick.  Holmes, to me, is a very solid back-up C (if he could stay healthy and improve his consistency, I think he has talent to be a starting C in this league).

 

Anyway, some knocks on Holmes as a C when he was coming out of college was he is tall and doesn't play with enough bend in his knees to be a solid NFL center, and many projected teams would move him to G at the NFL level.

 

I think Thornton has some of the same issues as Holmes (i.e., he can be inconsistent, and he has had some injury issues --- Thornton also seems to be inconsistent with his strength/size).  I think we are set now (assuming health) for a while at LT, LG, and C..... would it be an upgrade to the OL to have Holmes compete and maybe take over as our RG?  Or better to just keep him at back-up C.  My scare if we move him to RG is if he gets hurt, we may be stuck with Harrison if anything happens to Kelly.  The positive, however, would be if Kelly got hurt and Holmes was healthy, he could move to C and Thornton (or someone not on the roster yet) could come in at RG.

 

I'm still a bit concerned about RT -- I like Reitz, and think Good has some potential but don't trust he is 'there' yet.  Personally, I like it better when Reitz is on the bench, as I think he is a very solid back up at LT, LG, RG, and RT.

 

Regardless of what we do, I think this pick should give us a lot of comfort that our C play should be improved and that our line will be more versatile and potentially has the option of moving players around.

 

 

Not sure what you mean by Holmes being too tall.     He's 6'3"....   he's an inch shorter than Kelly.

 

Unless you're talking about playing tall....    as for Holmes playing guard.    He's played it for the Colts and he may be in contention for the RG spot this off-season.

 

[Coltfreak]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Because the Colts have often said they value Reitz for his ability to fill-in at almost any OL position.   They value him as a 6th man OL.

 

But,  the Colts have also said they didn't feel the need to draft an OT in this class,  so it would seem they feel with Reitz starting somewhere.

 

 

they dont need to draft an OT because of Good   Reitz will probably be 6th man again

[ColtsFanMikeC]

3 minutes ago, Dustin said:

Why does everyone want Reitz a on the bench? Am I taking crazy pills?!

 

I didn't say I want him on the bench, I said I like it better with him on the bench, because over the past several years our OL has been severely plagued by injuries and Reitz is extremely versatile and can fill in at 4 positions at the drop of a dime.

I think he does well at RT, but think we are deeper across the entire OL when we have a guy like him who is good, but not great, at 4 positions.
 

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, Coltfreak said:

they dont need to draft an OT because of Good   Reitz will probably be 6th man again

 

 

That may be what happens....   but it's still late April....    I think it's too early to make a call like that at this point.

 

[DougDew]

Good might take over at RT, but it will take more than preseason, and he has a lot of work to do.  Holmes can back up G and C, saving a roster spot.  Harrison is the odd man out, IMO.

[Coltfreak]

Just now, DougDew said:

Good might take over at RT, but it will take more than preseason, and he has a lot of work to do.  Holmes can back up G and C, saving a roster spot.  Harrison is the odd man out, IMO.

Holmes sucks man      he needs to go.... Harrison is better

[ColtsFanMikeC]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

Not sure what you mean by Holmes being too tall.     He's 6'3"....   he's an inch shorter than Kelly.

 

Unless you're talking about playing tall....    as for Holmes playing guard.    He's played it for the Colts and he may be in contention for the RG spot this off-season.

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/khaled-holmes?id=2539307

 

Yes, playing tall is what I meant.

 

This is a quote from the link above (his NFL.com draft profile):

Weaknesses

Taller than the average center, doesn't sit into his stance as low as many in the pivot. Must play with more knee bend, overextends at the waist while engaged and ends up on the ground too often. Does not always recognize inside blitzes, attacks a lineman and allows linebacker to come through the middle without an attempt to slow him down.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Just now, Coltfreak said:

Holmes sucks man      he needs to go.... Harrison is better

Not true.

[Ja'Crispy]

I'm glad the weekly Holmes or Harrison at center talk is done. 

[Coltfreak]

Just now, ColtsFanMikeC said:

Not true.

well he certainly gets replaced a lot for a guy that doesnt suck    He sucks

[Smonroe]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Good might take over at RT, but it will take more than preseason, and he has a lot of work to do.  Holmes can back up G and C, saving a roster spot.  Harrison is the odd man out, IMO.

 

Yeah, unless Harrison really shows out he's probably not making the team.  If we can believe what we read, they have a lot of faith in Good.  

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Just now, Coltfreak said:

well he certainly gets replaced a lot for a guy that doesnt suck    He sucks

 

Being injury prone and sucking are two different things.  He gets replaced because he gets injured and doesn't play well when he is hurt.

[Gavin]

30 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/khaled-holmes?id=2539307

 

Yes, playing tall is what I meant.

 

This is a quote from the link above (his NFL.com draft profile):

Weaknesses

Taller than the average center, doesn't sit into his stance as low as many in the pivot. Must play with more knee bend, overextends at the waist while engaged and ends up on the ground too often. Does not always recognize inside blitzes, attacks a lineman and allows linebacker to come through the middle without an attempt to slow him down.

"Does not always recognize inside blitzes"

 

That has been his biggest problem when actually on the field. The other problem being injuries

[ColtsFanMikeC]

1 minute ago, Gavin said:

"Does not always recognize inside blitzes"

 

That has been his biggest problem when actually on the field. The other problem being injuries

 

I tend to agree -- it seems to me as though Kelly is a more cerebral type of C, with some more football knowledge and better vision.  I don't know for sure, but I really do wonder if Holmes is better suited to play G in the NFL

[Gavin]

1 minute ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

I tend to agree -- it seems to me as though Kelly is a more cerebral type of C, with some more football knowledge and better vision.  I don't know for sure, but I really do wonder if Holmes is better suited to play G in the NFL

Physically he can play Guard in a Zone scheme but at Guard he will still have to recognize inside blitzes. Personally I stick with Thornton at RG this year.

[OHColtfan]

Holmes to G...only if G stands for gone. Let him play "kill my quarterback" on someone else's team.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

17 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Physically he can play Guard in a Zone scheme but at Guard he will still have to recognize inside blitzes. Personally I stick with Thornton at RG this year.

 

Yes, he would have to recognize inside blitzes at G, you are correct.  However (and this may be just my opinion), I don't think it is as 'busy' at the line for a G compared to a C.  You have more responsibilities at C in helping the QB see the field, deal with helping to set up audibles, communicating to your fellow OL, etc. than you do at G.  While it is important for the G to be aware of audibles and recognize blitz packages, etc.. there is less going on in terms of what you're assigned to do at that spot.

 

Holmes may still struggle at G in terms of recognizing inside blitzes, which would be a major problem.  However, the switch could potentially take a bit off his plate in terms of his assignments and allow him to improve on this recognition.  Also, a new line coach and blocking scheme may help him (I think Philbin is a major upgrade, I am actually just as excited about him as the new D-coordinator and strength/conditioning coach and more excited about the 3 of them than all of our other new hires).

 

That said, a new blocking scheme may also do wonders for Thornton.  I am just interested to see how all of this will be approached come training camp and pre-season and will not be at all surprised if they test Holmes out in competition with Thornton (and potentially Reitz, if it turns out that Good makes huge improvements) at RG.

[Patrick Miller]

2 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Holmes sucks man      he needs to go.... Harrison is better

 

Harrison sucks too. Id like to see both of them gone.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

 

Harrison sucks too. Id like to see both of them gone.

 

Harrison is very strong but seems to have little to no mobility, which makes him struggle any time he doesn't have an opportunity to just bull-rush someone.  I don't see a new blocking scheme really helping him out, I just don't think he has the agility to be a successful C in this league (except maybe in some goal line formations).

 

Holmes, I don't think sucks.  I think he'd be a good back-up C, and possibly solid at G.  He needs to stay healthy for 1, and he needs to improve his vision (especially if he stays at C) for 2.  He also, besides from getting injured fairly frequently, does not seem to be able to play well when he is hurt (here is a good article about the difference between hurt and injured: http://www.theplayerstribune.com/paul-rabil-lacrosse-playing-injured/) .

 

I, at least for this year, hope at least Holmes stays around.  I doubt we will take more than another OL (maybe 2) in this draft with other needs on this team.  I'm not too thrilled about the new signings, as I think they are just camp-bodies, and maybe back-up material, and I don't really see us getting any sort of stud OL as a free-agent this offseason. 

 

I am interested to see what we do with Holmes, too.  If we keep him at back-up C, I think we'll be just fine.  If we aim to have him compete for the RG spot, I don't trust his health enough to be comfortable with us not either keeping Harrison or getting another C on the roster (I really would like to see Harrison replaced/removed).

[Dark Superman]

I have a feeling Thornton will step up and prove himself this year.

 

I wouldn't mind if the Colts went out and got another guard through the draft or free agency.. I kind of wish Donald Thomas panned out a few years back and Cherilus was still here and playing at the level he played in when he first arrived here, but oh well.

 

Ryan Kelly should help this offensive line tremendously. Who knows, maybe the  Colts aren't done adding OL through the draft.

[SteelCityColt]

I think we certainly have some depth and options on the line now... question is do they add up to an effective line. People shouldn't discount the changing to a Zone Scheme this year, we might see marked difference in individual performances. So currently I've got us with:

 

AC - LT Nailed On

Mewhort - G/RT Starting at one of the two, most likely LG.

Kelly - Should be Starting C.

Thornton - Make or break time, could make RG his, should be better in a zone scheme. 

Holmes - Decent option for backup C, might make a good G.

Harrison - Fighting Holmes for backup C, outside chance to prove his worth at G, don't like him in a ZBS.

Reitz - The everyman of the lines, solid not spectacular, would be good to see him have an injury free run.

Good - I'm not as high on him as everyone else, no way should he be being pencilled in at RT yet 

 

Everyone else currently on the roster is camp fodder I'd say, let's see what else we add in the draft and with UDFAs.

 

A lot of possible combinations though with this alone. 

 

AC - Mehwort - Kelly - Thornton (Holmes?) - Reitz ... Continuity from last year

AC - Holmes - Kelly - Thornton - Mehwort with Reitz as swing .. if people live up to potential 

 

I hate how every year since 2013 on, I've felt sneaky good about the line and then reality kicks in

[Coffeedrinker]

It will be interesting to see what they do with Holmes.  All I know is the line played better in all phases with Holmes in there.  Harrison has proven he is not a NFL caliber player and with the drafting of Kelly I don't expect Harrison will make it past the 2nd round of cuts.  If the Colts are able to get  Glasgow in the later round 5 thru 7, then I expect Harrison to be released before training camp.

[Rhane19]

3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

I think we certainly have some depth and options on the line now... question is do they add up to an effective line. People shouldn't discount the changing to a Zone Scheme this year, we might see marked difference in individual performances. So currently I've got us with:

 

AC - LT Nailed On

Mewhort - G/RT Starting at one of the two, most likely LG.

Kelly - Should be Starting C.

Thornton - Make or break time, could make RG his, should be better in a zone scheme. 

Holmes - Decent option for backup C, might make a good G.

Harrison - Fighting Holmes for backup C, outside chance to prove his worth at G, don't like him in a ZBS.

Reitz - The everyman of the lines, solid not spectacular, would be good to see him have an injury free run.

Good - I'm not as high on him as everyone else, no way should he be being pencilled in at RT yet 

 

Everyone else currently on the roster is camp fodder I'd say, let's see what else we add in the draft and with UDFAs.

 

A lot of possible combinations though with this alone. 

 

AC - Mehwort - Kelly - Thornton (Holmes?) - Reitz ... Continuity from last year

AC - Holmes - Kelly - Thornton - Mehwort with Reitz as swing .. if people live up to potential 

 

I hate how every year since 2013 on, I've felt sneaky good about the line and then reality kicks in

 

My exact thoughts.  Thanks for saving me from typing.

 

Good is only known by Colts fans that want him to be good. No where near the hype or ceiling that people are acting like he is already at.  It is never a bad thing to have more competition at the OL

[richard pallo]

Last night coach hinted wee might not be done with the OL this draft.  If Whitehair is there at the 2nd. pick I think they take him.  Our line goes from so so to very good. 

[akcolt]

One of the many problems with Holmes at C is he isn't very strong Why would we want to see him at G.

 

I see him being waived injured. He's only made week 1 healthy  once 

[IinD]

He's far from safe to make the team. He doesn't bring much to the table honestly.

 

I had high hopes when he was drafted as they kept talking up how he was a tough guy who was related to Troy Polamalu?(spelling).

[akcolt]

8 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Last night coach hinted wee might not be done with the OL this draft.  If Whitehair is there at the 2nd. pick I think they take him.  Our line goes from so so to very good. 

I find it amusing that you think a couple of players who no one has seen play a down in the NFL heck Whitehair I'd bet most haven't seen in a 3 pt stance are without question going to fix the OL. 

[IinD]

2 hours ago, akcolt said:

I find it amusing that you think a couple of players who no one has seen play a down in the NFL heck Whitehair I'd bet most haven't seen in a 3 pt stance are without question going to fix the OL. 

That's honestly almost every fan at this time of year. Watch a couple shows, buy a draft mag or two and you're an instant expert.

 

I especially love the 'he won't be there at 20' and then said player goes 120th.

[a06cc]

We can't denie that Harrison is stronger than Holmes. What happens next is a strange clue...

[needanoline63]

I think laraven Clark moves inside to guard

[Coltfreak]

Holmes is gone    As he should be

[Colts_Fan12]

More like Holmes to the unemployment office 

[Superman]

On 4/30/2016 at 2:14 AM, needanoline63 said:

I think laraven Clark moves inside to guard

 

Good heavens, I hope not. He does not have a guard skill set. Just because he's not ready to play tackle today doesn't mean he can just kick inside to guard. I personally think that would be a disaster.

[mintor]

holmes is gone