Colts Secondary

[compuls1v3]

Interesting to me that there is no mention of Blackmon with Cross, instead putting out there Thomas II with Cross.  Hopefully he's playing tomorrow.

 

https://www.colts.com/news/cj-stroud-houston-texans-secondary-cornerbacks-safeties-nick-cross-jaylon-jones-juju-brents

[holeymoley99]

35 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

Interesting to me that there is no mention of Blackmon with Cross, instead putting out there Thomas II with Cross.  Hopefully he's playing tomorrow.

 

https://www.colts.com/news/cj-stroud-houston-texans-secondary-cornerbacks-safeties-nick-cross-jaylon-jones-juju-brents

I think they were just mentioning the younger players as Kenny Moore was not mentioned either.

[compuls1v3]

1 hour ago, holeymoley99 said:

I think they were just mentioning the younger players as Kenny Moore was not mentioned either.

Good point!  Thanks!

[OLD FAN MAN]

as our young players adjust to the system gus is playing, we may surprise a lot of people with our defense this season, some of them may become game changers this season. ballard likes this group for some reason that some people cant see. gus has seen and coached a lot of football , dont write him off.

[crazycolt1]

I know there are a lot of fans very concerned about our secondary but I don't believe it will be a big issue. 

Getting and maintaining a pass rush is the key to having a good secondary.  The pure athlete the receiver has become along with the rules makes it almost impossible to cover receivers. 

 

[AwesomeAustin]

29 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I know there are a lot of fans very concerned about our secondary but I don't believe it will be a big issue. 

Getting and maintaining a pass rush is the key to having a good secondary.  The pure athlete the receiver has become along with the rules makes it almost impossible to cover receivers. 

 

This!!!  These WRs are big, strong and fast. The fact the CBs can’t touch them after 5yds makes it extremely difficult to contain them. Pass rush does limit the time after 5yds WRs are able to run free. I understand the urge to play off the line by the CBs. Jamming at the line comes with the price of when you release at 5yds you are playing catch up on the route most of the time.  If there is no pass rush the QB can wait the extra couple seconds and the WR is gone.  I expect to see more physicality at the LOS once the pass rush is established

[RollerColt]

13 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

as our young players adjust to the system gus is playing, we may surprise a lot of people with our defense this season, some of them may become game changers this season. ballard likes this group for some reason that some people cant see. gus has seen and coached a lot of football , dont write him off.

I like the positive thinking, Jim. 

[jbaron04]

On 9/6/2024 at 5:21 PM, compuls1v3 said:

Interesting to me that there is no mention of Blackmon with Cross, instead putting out there Thomas II with Cross.  Hopefully he's playing tomorrow.

 

https://www.colts.com/news/cj-stroud-houston-texans-secondary-cornerbacks-safeties-nick-cross-jaylon-jones-juju-brents

I think (hope) gus is gonna be multiple with his safeties and interchangeable. It is a easy tell for the offense when they know who is free and strong safety on a coverage 

[throwing BBZ]

12 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I know there are a lot of fans very concerned about our secondary but I don't believe it will be a big issue. 

Getting and maintaining a pass rush is the key to having a good secondary.  The pure athlete the receiver has become along with the rules makes it almost impossible to cover receivers. 

 

 

 There is a strong incentive to play off more than what seems wise to us, but the idea is to do our best to eliminate long plays.

 Then if it comes to the red zone we win and hold them to field goals.

 We need 4+ sacks.

[atapcl]

Who did Colts cut to promote Lammons and Shrader to the 53?

[holeymoley99]

1 hour ago, atapcl said:

Who did Colts cut to promote Lammons and Shrader to the 53?

No one, teams are allowed to elevate 2 players each game.

[atapcl]

9 hours ago, holeymoley99 said:

No one, teams are allowed to elevate 2 players each game.

Thanks, I didn’t realize that.

[a06cc]

Colts Secondary… Do we even have one  

[crazycolt1]

30 minutes ago, a06cc said:

Colts Secondary… Do we even have one  

It's every team in the league that has problems covering receivers, NOT just the Colts.  As said before, it's the pressure and sacks on the opposing QB that relate to the secondary play. 

 

[indyagent17]

Ballard did nothing to help this issue and I’m anxious to see his excuses 

[Colt Overseas]

I don’t think we’re a million miles away in the secondary, they did a decent job today. I think we’re probably just missing a true CB1 on the outside that can matchup with the opposition best receiver. We haven’t really had one since Gilmore. I was dissapointed we didn’t try and get Sneed earlier this year, we saw the difference some of the Texans free agents made today. Moore and Blackmon are good, while I think Cross and Brents can be solid at this level. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

19 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

I don’t think we’re a million miles away in the secondary, they did a decent job today. I think we’re probably just missing a true CB1 on the outside that can matchup with the opposition best receiver. We haven’t really had one since Gilmore. I was dissapointed we didn’t try and get Sneed earlier this year, we saw the difference some of the Texans free agents made today. Moore and Blackmon are good, while I think Cross and Brents can be solid at this level. 

Interesting. There was one right there 

[Two_pound]

The Texans had a high first round draft pick on Mitchell today, how did he do? I saw Mitchell running wide open often! Maybe the Texans should cut him and sign an overpriced free agent!

[indyagent17]

27 minutes ago, Two_pound said:

The Texans had a high first round draft pick on Mitchell today, how did he do? I saw Mitchell running wide open often! Maybe the Texans should cut him and sign an overpriced free agent!

So true it’s amazing have some people just don’t understand football. The NFL quarterback should never miss a receiver who is absolutely wide open. There’s 12 points off the board. everyone do the math.

[Defjamz26]

It usually takes CBs a few years. It’s the most difficult position to play besides QB. I think what the team needs is a veteran (aside from Moore) to mentor the young guys as well as high level upside prospects at corner and FS. I don’t think there’s a CB1 on this roster honestly. Jones is a decent CB2, but he’s really a backup player. 
 

Zone doesn’t work all the time, and eventually you’re going to have to play man. Theres no one on the roster who can play man-to-man on Nico Collins and that’s a problem.

[4daUColts]

Well im done watching colts this year, play after play i see houston wide recievers wide open and 2-3 guys on our backfield defense 20 feet away. Whats the point? Thats not even.... i cant do it...

[throwing BBZ]

13 hours ago, Colt Overseas said:

I don’t think we’re a million miles away in the secondary, they did a decent job today. I think we’re probably just missing a true CB1 on the outside that can matchup with the opposition best receiver. We haven’t really had one since Gilmore. I was dissapointed we didn’t try and get Sneed earlier this year, we saw the difference some of the Texans free agents made today. Moore and Blackmon are good, while I think Cross and Brents can be solid at this level. 

 

  A Total Failure at stopping the run and taking away their best receiver.

 

 Stroud is a superb QB. He completed 24 passes.

6 to Collins for 117

18 to the rest for 117. We actually covered and tackled well on these.

Bradley's problem was they constantly has 2nd or 3rd and three, so these short, hard to defend plays were for first downs. Stroud is too quick and accurate.

 Jaylon Jones is growing on me. His coverage was consistently tight and he is very good getting them to ground.

 Bradley and his LB coach consistently get low quality play from our LB's.

And Kenny Moore gets stuck playing zone not knowing who to cover so he covers Noone. Saw it multiple times last season and on another TD yesterday.

 Steichen has got to figure out our D and the way forward. And that leads to a clash with Ballard and Gus.

 

[Matabix]

For questioning our secondary all summer it seems that was the only part of our D that showed up. Which leaves me optimistic for the rest of the year. I know our front 7 is good they just played bad, well horrible actually. Only bright spot in the front 7 I believe was Paye.

[Solid84]

12 minutes ago, Matabix said:

For questioning our secondary all summer it seems that was the only part of our D that showed up. Which leaves me optimistic for the rest of the year. I know our front 7 is good they just played bad, well horrible actually. Only bright spot in the front 7 I believe was Paye.

Wait what? The reason the Texans couldn't pass much was our pass rush. Jones, Brents and Cross did their level best to throw away the game either sleeping on the job, with untimely penalties or poor coverage. Bradley probably didn't do those 3 guys any favors, but let's not act like they were the reason Stroud had his struggles.

 

What lost the game was a general failure to stop the run from the front 7. They got completely outplayed and as per usual Bradley didn't adjust.

[Matabix]

3 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Wait what? The reason the Texans couldn't pass much was our pass rush. Jones, Brents and Cross did their level best to throw away the game either sleeping on the job, with untimely penalties or poor coverage. Bradley probably didn't do those 3 guys any favors, but let's not act like they were the reason Stroud had his struggles.

 

What lost the game was a general failure to stop the run from the front 7. They got completely outplayed and as per usual Bradley didn't adjust.

Sorry I didn't see it like that, thought Jones and Cross showed up. We'll Jones and Cross looked better than last year.

[Solid84]

4 minutes ago, Matabix said:

Sorry I didn't see it like that, thought Jones and Cross showed up. We'll Jones and Cross looked better than last year.

Really? I mean, that's fair of course, but the way I saw it every time the Texans needed to complete a pass they looked Jones' way. Brents and Cross in unison once again let Collins walk all over them. It didn't inspire any confidence in them.

[Superman]

On 9/7/2024 at 8:49 PM, throwing BBZ said:

 

 There is a strong incentive to play off more than what seems wise to us, but the idea is to do our best to eliminate long plays.

 Then if it comes to the red zone we win and hold them to field goals.

 We need 4+ sacks.

 

They did a reasonably good job of taking away the big shots. Stroud was 1/4 on throws 20+ yards downfield.

 

Except the one, and I think Brents just got caught flat footed and then it was too late. As you like to point out, he doesn't have the long speed to make up for a mistake like that. But Collins still had to make a tough catch between two defenders, unlike the big TD in last year's game when we completely blew the coverage.

 

The scramble plays hurt, but I think the Texans OL got away with a good amount of holding. There was one third and long where Stroud scrambled right, and the OL is holding Kwity Paye directly in front of the ref. To be fair, only nine accepted penalties between both teams, they didn't throw a lot of flags either way. But I think Texans were holding a lot, and it probably helped them in the run game as well. 

[Superman]

3 hours ago, Solid84 said:

Really? I mean, that's fair of course, but the way I saw it every time the Texans needed to complete a pass they looked Jones' way. Brents and Cross in unison once again let Collins walk all over them. It didn't inspire any confidence in them.

 

I didn't see it that way. I think Brents messed up on the big play, but Nico had to make an amazing catch. And then that was it for big plays.

 

There certainly isn't going to be a ton of sticky coverage underneath, so good QBs will probably continue to do well in the short and intermediate areas. But that's by design, and if the pass rush does it's job, there will be some plays made by the secondary. 

[Solid84]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I didn't see it that way. I think Brents messed up on the big play, but Nico had to make an amazing catch. And then that was it for big plays.

 

There certainly isn't going to be a ton of sticky coverage underneath, so good QBs will probably continue to do well in the short and intermediate areas. But that's by design, and if the pass rush does it's job, there will be some plays made by the secondary. 

Collins got 100+ yards AGAIN. He's put two TDs in Brents face now on essentially exactly the same play. Considering the Colts last game against them I feel they should've seen this coming. How long before other teams start testing him like that?

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Collins got 100+ yards AGAIN. He's put two TDs in Brents face now on essentially exactly the same play. Considering the Colts last game against them I feel they should've seen this coming. How long before other teams start testing him like that?

 

I mean, if you don't want to go any deeper than that, then I get where you're coming from (although he didn't score a TD, so I don't know what you mean about two TDs). But I think there's a ton of difference between the two plays; the safety completely blew the coverage in the last game, Brents got beat yesterday. They covered Collins much better this time, even with the one big play.

 

I also acknowledge that Brents was playing his 10th game as a pro. He got caught flat footed, and it cost him. I'm sure other teams will test him, and I'm fine with that. Either he gets better or he continues to get beat, in which case he'll probably be taken off the field. I'm just not panicking because he made a mistake against a pretty good QB/WR combo. 

[Solid84]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I mean, if you don't want to go any deeper than that, then I get where you're coming from (although he didn't score a TD, so I don't know what you mean about two TDs). But I think there's a ton of difference between the two plays; the safety completely blew the coverage in the last game, Brents got beat yesterday. They covered Collins much better this time, even with the one big play.

 

I also acknowledge that Brents was playing his 10th game as a pro. He got caught flat footed, and it cost him. I'm sure other teams will test him, and I'm fine with that. Either he gets better or he continues to get beat, in which case he'll probably be taken off the field. I'm just not panicking because he made a mistake against a pretty good QB/WR combo. 

Woops yeah no TD the second time, my bad.

 

Wasn't the first time the play Brents also fell on his face and left injured or am I mixing things up?

 

I'm not panicking either, I just get tired of watching our guys give up big plays or lose out in important situations over and over, game after game. I do acknowledge Bradley isn't doing them any favors though. God I hate his playcalling...

[JediXMan]

So how bad is Flowers that they didn’t even have him active this game.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

They did a reasonably good job of taking away the big shots. Stroud was 1/4 on throws 20+ yards downfield.

 

Except the one, and I think Brents just got caught flat footed and then it was too late. As you like to point out, he doesn't have the long speed to make up for a mistake like that. But Collins still had to make a tough catch between two defenders, unlike the big TD in last year's game when we completely blew the coverage.

 

The scramble plays hurt, but I think the Texans OL got away with a good amount of holding. There was one third and long where Stroud scrambled right, and the OL is holding Kwity Paye directly in front of the ref. To be fair, only nine accepted penalties between both teams, they didn't throw a lot of flags either way. But I think Texans were holding a lot, and it probably helped them in the run game as well. 

 

I don't think there was one holding penalty in this game. But that sort of makes the lack of a run game even more perplexing.

[Superman]

25 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Woops yeah no TD the second time, my bad.

 

Wasn't the first time the play Brents also fell on his face and left injured or am I mixing things up?

 

I'm not panicking either, I just get tired of watching our guys give up big plays or lose out in important situations over and over, game after game. I do acknowledge Bradley isn't doing them any favors though. God I hate his playcalling...

 

I don't remember if Brents left injured... he was the closest defender, but it was Cover 4 (I believe), and the safety bit on the play fake and was out of position. Yeah, Collins outraced Brents, but he should have had help over the top from the safety. Yesterday, Brents gave a big cushion and played outside leverage, and unlike the January game, he actually did have safety help. But he let Collins eat up the cushion and was late to turn and run, so he got outraced again.

 

Like you, I get tired of the defense giving up big plays in the passing game, especially because the conservative scheme is supposed to limit big plays. I can't deal with conservatively giving up short/intermediate plays, and also getting beat deep. But 1/4 on deep throws yesterday, and the one completion was heavily contested and took an amazing play from a pretty good WR. 

 

The third/fourth down conversions were more problematic than the big play to Collins, IMO. 

[cbear]

If you want to relate the fairly decent pass coverage to poor run defense, did they rush more and didn't focus on the running game because they knew the secondary couldn't hold up? Was the secondary told to focus more on their coverage (safeties especially) and don't attack the run as much? 

[Superman]

28 minutes ago, cbear said:

If you want to relate the fairly decent pass coverage to poor run defense, did they rush more and didn't focus on the running game because they knew the secondary couldn't hold up? Was the secondary told to focus more on their coverage (safeties especially) and don't attack the run as much? 

 

I think the issues with the run defense were entirely up front. If not for the safeties tackling, some of those runs could have been a lot longer. 

[DavePSL]

Our secondary compounds the problems by not making routine plays. Two times on the first drive of the 3rd quarter they had a chance to make routine INT's and both Brents and Jones dont make the INT and that is back breaking because you only get a few times a game to make those plays . Brents bobbles an easy pick and doesn't get both feet in and then Jones knocks a ball down that was an easy INT. He looked like he was running the route (severely under thrown by Stroud) and he knocks the ball down instead of catching it.....Meanwhile their rookie from USC makes a diving INT on us when Granson slips. No way do our guys(Except Kenny) make that INT....Frustrating.

[MikeCurtis]

8 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  A Total Failure at stopping the run and taking away their best receiver.

 

 Stroud is a superb QB. He completed 24 passes.

6 to Collins for 117

18 to the rest for 117. We actually covered and tackled well on these.

Bradley's problem was they constantly has 2nd or 3rd and three, so these short, hard to defend plays were for first downs. Stroud is too quick and accurate.

 Jaylon Jones is growing on me. His coverage was consistently tight and he is very good getting them to ground.

 Bradley and his LB coach consistently get low quality play from our LB's.

And Kenny Moore gets stuck playing zone not knowing who to cover so he covers Noone. Saw it multiple times last season and on another TD yesterday.

 Steichen has got to figure out our D and the way forward. And that leads to a clash with Ballard and Gus.

 

Our LBs didnt look great yesterday

Our tackling was not great, as we had arms on people but couldnt bring them down

 

 

 

 

 

[ArmchairQB]

On 9/8/2024 at 3:44 PM, a06cc said:

Colts Secondary… Do we even have one  

I thought our LB’s struggled to get off blocks today.  That was a bigger issue than the secondary.  Our D-Line wasn’t getting a bunch of push either.  Either the Texans have an elite O-line,  our D-line had an awful day,  or our PB’s suddenly can’t play.  I will say I thought the refs let the Texans get away with a lot of holding today too

[Superman]

PFR says 14 pressures (2nd most), 36.8% pressure rate (best). The pass rush was a bright spot. Hoping for more of that as the year goes on.