Alec Pierce

[Indeee]

33 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You or no one else here have any idea what is being discussed behind closed doors.   You don't like Pierce and never liked the pick.   You look at everything said about him in a negative light.  It's tired honestly.   

Dude are you being serious right now? 

 

He is currently being projected as a WR4 on this roster in 2024 if he is lucky. Based on the Colts potentially going after or drafting a true WR1. If he is complaining behind closed doors, it's about not having enough cream for Steichen's coffee. 

 

If Pierce keeps this trajectory, soon, the only thing he will be blocking is traffic so old ladies can cross the street. 

 

[jvan1973]

Just now, Indeee said:

Dude are you being serious right now? 

 

He is currently being projected as a WR4 on this roster in 2024 if he is lucky. Based on the Colts potentially going after or drafting a true WR1. If he is complaining behind closed doors, it's about not having enough cream for Steichen's coffee. 

 

If Pierce keeps this trajectory, soon, the only thing he will be blocking is traffic so old ladies can cross the street. 

 

You haven't paid attention to how often he was open this year.    

[Indeee]

5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You haven't paid attention to how often he was open this year.    

Dude, come on...

 

Did you even read my response to the moderator that you laughed emoji at?

 

I said IF Pierce has been open all year as clearly you and others are quick to point out then why has he not been screaming this from the top of the luc? Keyshawn Johnson style. Throw me the damn ball!!

 

And if you play advocate and say "Maybe he has been" then clearly there is another issue then as he has not gotten the ball/chances consistently enough and NOW, he's on the verge of not even having a GameDay spot, much less a game plan possibility. Unless you think the Colts are going to utilize 4 reciever sets exclusively next year.

[jvan1973]

Just now, Indeee said:

Dude, come on...

 

Did you even read my response to the moderator that you laughed emoji at?

 

I said IF Pierce has been open all year as clearly you and others are quick to point out then why has he not been screaming this from the top of the luc? Keyshawn Johnson style. Throw me the damn ball!!

 

And if you play advocate and say "Maybe he has been" then clearly there is another issue then as he has not gotten the ball/chances consistently enough and NOW, he's on the verge of not even having a GameDay spot, much less a game plan possibility. Unless you think the Colts are going to utilize 4 reciever sets exclusively next year.

Pierce won't be wr 4 next year.   Minshew missed him running wide open all year.   Some guys are lunch pail guys and do the job that's asked of them.   It's not that uncommon

[DougDew]

Hmmm, if someone is  confident that Pitt will be retained next year, and confident AP won't be #4 next year, simple logic says that the person is confident the Colts won't draft a WR at 15 next year.  That's a passive way of making a bold prediction at this point.

 

Its seems that the tiresome mission of rushing in like a white knight to squash anything negative about any colts player or owner often conflicts with meaningful discussion.  

[Boondoggle]

Next season Pierce will be running all these underneath hooks and chain mover routes that our dearly departed WR1 ran this season.  And in his place there will be a new and young wideout who offers significant explosive threat.

 

OR Ballard will defy what I perceive to be the obvious decision and retain that WR1 at a costly chunk of cap space.  Not sure why he'd do that but I am often in this role, dazed and confused in my easy chair as to why a professional and educated GM cannot see things the way I do.

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

Next season Pierce will be running all these underneath hooks and chain mover routes that our dearly departed WR1 ran this season.  And in his place there will be a new and young wideout who offers significant explosive threat.

 

OR Ballard will defy what I perceive to be the obvious decision and retain that WR1 at a costly chunk of cap space.  Not sure why he'd do that but I am often in this role, dazed and confused in my easy chair as to why a professional and educated GM cannot see things the way I do.

You think Ballard is letting Pittman walk out the door?    For nothing?   Really?  
 

You don’t think we’ll either sign him to a multiyear deal or tag him?   

[jvan1973]

21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Hmmm, if someone is  confident that Pitt will be retained next year, and confident AP won't be #4 next year, simple logic says that the person is confident the Colts won't draft a WR at 15 next year.  That's a passive way of making a bold prediction at this point.

 

Its seems that the tiresome mission of rushing in like a white knight to squash anything negative about any colts player or owner often conflicts with meaningful discussion.  

Wr won't be taken at 15.  Much larger needs

[lester]

32 minutes ago, DougDew said:

That's a passive way of making a bold prediction at this point.

I predict the Colts will not draft a Wide Receiver with pick 15. 

 

There. I said it. 

[ChuggaBeer]

I think a lot of people are going to eat some crow over Pierce.    I think  he is going to break out 

[Hoose]

1 hour ago, ChuggaBeer said:

I think a lot of people are going to eat some crow over Pierce.    I think  he is going to break out 

He might. But this team still needs offensive weapons. They’re going to add to the WR corps with either a high pick or a trade. 

[w87r]

https://horseshoeheroes.com/posts/colts-reggie-wayne-fans-too-quick-to-judge-players-alec-pierce-01hmc5xsgkzt

 

 

 

Reggie Wayne seems to support Pierce.

 

 

 

 

 

[Boondoggle]

On 1/17/2024 at 5:33 PM, NewColtsFan said:

You think Ballard is letting Pittman walk out the door?    For nothing?   Really?  
 

You don’t think we’ll either sign him to a multiyear deal or tag him?   

A third round comp pick is likely next offseason.  So it is not accurate to say it is "for nothing."  In fact the best teams in this league tend to play the comp pick game by being careful and not wasting money on expensive signings in order to have an edge over the less fortunates.  When done correctly it is very effective, it just requires a good coach in place which it seems like the Colts do have.

[Hoose]

7 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

A third round comp pick is likely next offseason.  So it is not accurate to say it is "for nothing."  In fact the best teams in this league tend to play the comp pick game by being careful and not wasting money on expensive signings in order to have an edge over the less fortunates.  When done correctly it is very effective, it just requires a good coach in place which it seems like the Colts do have.

The Colts will either sign Pitt to an extension or tag him. He’s not going anywhere. I DO agree that they will pick a WR high in the draft. The offensive talent on the team needs a boost, and they will need to hedge their bet on Pitt if he’s tagged. 

[w87r]

33 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

A third round comp pick is likely next offseason.  So it is not accurate to say it is "for nothing."  In fact the best teams in this league tend to play the comp pick game by being careful and not wasting money on expensive signings in order to have an edge over the less fortunates.  When done correctly it is very effective, it just requires a good coach in place which it seems like the Colts do have.

We get a 1st rounder + if he is tag and traded. So yes a "potential" 3rd round comp pick in 2025(not even a guarantee), is it is pretty much nothing compared to that. Could end up being nothing completely, if we signed a comparable guy and it cancels Pittman leaving out. Which would be a really good possibility if we let him walk. 

[DougDew]

On 1/17/2024 at 6:54 PM, lester said:

I predict the Colts will not draft a Wide Receiver with pick 15. 

 

There. I said it. 

I don't think WR is the biggest need, and it makes little sense to do so if Pitt is resigned, IMO.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Boondoggle said:

A third round comp pick is likely next offseason.  So it is not accurate to say it is "for nothing."  In fact the best teams in this league tend to play the comp pick game by being careful and not wasting money on expensive signings in order to have an edge over the less fortunates.  When done correctly it is very effective, it just requires a good coach in place which it seems like the Colts do have.

You make a good argument, and that’s all I ever ask.   This is a very good argument.  
 

So then it comes down to whether Ballard and Steichen value Pitt enough to tag him, and do what you suggest the next year?  
 

Thanks again. 

[BeanDiasucci]

Alec Pierce - 73 receptions, 1107 yards first two seasons

Donte Moncrief - 96 receptions, 1177 yards first two seasons

Zach Pascal - 68 receptions, 875 yards first two seasons

 

Why are people always saying Pierce may develop like Reggie Wayne but don't say he may develop like Donte Moncrief or Zach Pascal? 😆

[shasta519]

4 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Alec Pierce - 73 receptions, 1107 yards first two seasons

Donte Moncrief - 96 receptions, 1177 yards first two seasons

Zach Pascal - 68 receptions, 875 yards first two seasons

 

Why are people always saying Pierce may develop like Reggie Wayne but don't say he may develop like Donte Moncrief or Zach Pascal? 😆

 

Because Ballard drafted him. But a lot of this is because Reggie is a big fan and I think there's a good amount of cognitive dissonance in questioning a Colts legend.

[husker61]

2 hours ago, w87r said:

We get a 1st rounder + if he is tag and traded. So yes a "potential" 3rd round comp pick in 2025(not even a guarantee), is it is pretty much nothing compared to that. Could end up being nothing completely, if we signed a comparable guy and it cancels Pittman leaving out. Which would be a really good possibility if we let him walk. 

getting that 1st round pick is only if another team is willing to give it up and I think that chance is pretty close to zero. 

[ArmchairQB]

4 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

Because Ballard drafted him. But a lot of this is because Reggie is a big fan and I think there's a good amount of cognitive dissonance in questioning a Colts legend.

Yawn,  yea we are listening to Reggie because he used to catch footballs for us.  Not because he is the wide receivers coach, because who listens to those guys? 
 

The quarterback play matters.  Look no further than Nico Collin’s who was widely considered a bust until this year.  
 

 

[shasta519]

1 minute ago, ArmchairQB said:

Yawn,  yea we are listening to Reggie because he used to catch footballs for us.  Not because he is the wide receivers coach because who listens to those guys? 
 

the quarterback play matters.  Look no further than Nico Collin’s who was widely considered a bust until this year.  
 

 

 

So boring that you replied haha.

 

If he wasn't the current WR coach, he isn't even talking about Alec Pierce. But he ALSO happens to be a Colts legend, which matters to people.

 

If the DB coach was talking about how great Nick Cross or Rodney Thomas are, or making comps to great Ss after two seasons, likely few are listening...and many are making side eyes.

 

Nico was not widely considered a bust. He was a R3 pick and he made a big jump in his second year...he just dealt with injuries and only played 441 snaps. If he was healthy, he would have likely put up 800+ yards. And that was with Davis Mills at QB. 

 

AP has yet to take a step forward like that. Comparing him to Nico is a huge stretch. I recall many Colts fans saying AP was a better WR than Nico before this year too...because this fanbase has a lot of homers.

 

 

[joeb]

I started this thread weeks ago and i didn't think it would last. If Reggie Wayne has his back he will be fine. 

[DavePSL]

Ballard didn't say we need to get more explosive for no reason. He knows our WR's and TE's aren't up to par, and he also understands AR and JT will bring more explosive plays....This is a big year for Peirce and the TE's IMO...I also think they know Pittman is limited in terms of explosives and that will be argued come contract time and its legit.

[ArmchairQB]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

So boring that you replied haha.

 

If he wasn't the current WR coach, he isn't even talking about Alec Pierce. But he ALSO happens to be a Colts legend, which matters to people.

 

If the DB coach was talking about how great Nick Cross or Rodney Thomas are, or making comps to great Ss after two seasons, likely few are listening...and many are making side eyes.

 

Nico was not widely considered a bust. He was a R3 pick and he made a big jump in his second year...he just dealt with injuries and only played 441 snaps. If he was healthy, he would have likely put up 800+ yards. And that was with Davis Mills at QB. 

 

AP has yet to take a step forward like that. Comparing him to Nico is a huge stretch. I recall many Colts fans saying AP was a better WR than Nico before this year too...because this fanbase has a lot of homers.

 

 

I replied because your take was boring.  It’s the same old hysterical fans calling out everyone that’s not as hysterical as them as homers and sheep.  I’ve watched every single all 22 from this past season specifically watching Pierce and he was beating his coverage often.  It is too early to punt and think we know what he is.  
 

What gives you this narrative on Collins.  Because I know for a fact he was looked at as a bust by the local Houston sports market.  
 

If you think this is about people being homers you have no idea what homers do.  
 

Ballard was talking about how we lost explosive offensive play after AR went down.  Also that the defense gave up too many explosives. 
 

don’t know what this has to do with Pierce. 

[GoColts8818]

I think it’s way too soon to state as a fact what position the Colts will or won’t draft at 15.  The combine hasn’t even happened yet. 

[NewColtsFan]

18 hours ago, w87r said:

https://horseshoeheroes.com/posts/colts-reggie-wayne-fans-too-quick-to-judge-players-alec-pierce-01hmc5xsgkzt

 

 

 

Reggie Wayne seems to support Pierce.

 

 

 

 

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^. THIS!!  ^^^^^^^^^^^^
 

Thanks to @w87r for posting this.  Tons of great info desperately needed for context.  

[Hawkeyecolt]

I’m curious how many DPI’s Pierce drew. It seemed like a half dozen. 

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think it’s way too soon to state as a fact what position the Colts will or won’t draft at 15.  The combine hasn’t even happened yet. 

At this point it's just throwing 💩 at the wall hoping it will stick.

 

The combine needs to happen and then we'll start hearing rumours about who the Colts like and who they are talking to.

[AustexColt]

This is the make or break year for APierce. Last year the limitation was Minshew. We also need one or two more veteran explosive WRs. The other area is  the OL. we need depth Braden and Ryan always getting hurt. Convert JT to a Deebo Samuel role. 

[NewColtsFan]

9 hours ago, AustexColt said:

This is the make or break year for APierce. Last year the limitation was Minshew. We also need one or two more veteran explosive WRs. The other area is  the OL. we need depth Braden and Ryan always getting hurt. Convert JT to a Deebo Samuel role. 

“Convert JT to a Deebo Samuel role.”

 

Is that what you meant to say?   Jonathan Taylor into Deebo Samuel?    I don’t follow.  
 

How is that to happen?   Taylor doesn’t have a wide receivers hands.  
 

Can you elaborate your thinking? 

[Boondoggle]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:40 AM, NewColtsFan said:

So then it comes down to whether Ballard and Steichen value Pitt enough to tag him, and do what you suggest the next year?  

I expect it comes down to the market for him.  But that market may be weaker than the faithful expect.  He's a good wideout, a good team player and locker room element, but teams know he's not an explosive threat.  Teams covet that.  Big guys who can move the chains can be found outside the early going.

 

If you compare him to types who work the underneath Deebo was round 2.  Kupp was round 3 or 4 forget which.  Nacua even later.  WR quality is so good now in the draft that if you were to look for a good athlete with good size who can move the chains you're gonna have a ton of options to fill that.  And we're not talking round 1.  Round 1 is where you get the studs.  The guys who can take the top off wherever you line them up but who will project to do well vs the best corner on the opposition.

 

So any team that is considering Pittman is going to look at the draft and see where the Pittman equivalents are found and will offer something along those lines.  And by extension the Colts will need to project what Pittman can do over 17 games with the new QB.  To what extent does he change that.  Does he make Pittman more of a threat to beat defenses down the sideline and on posts for those explosive plays they want.

 

At that point you can convince yourself of anything if you try hard enough.  So the Colts may do that.  But also a factor here is that Pittman probably wants to sample that green grass from the other side of the fence.  He probably wants to be used in those deep roles.  He wants to be Mike Evans.  Problem is he isn't Mike Evans.  So way I see it why not let the kid try the market and scoop that round 3 pick which generally is going to give you a good quality player in return.  Certainly with wideouts it can get you a big underneath weapon that maybe you hit on.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 1/17/2024 at 5:19 PM, DougDew said:

Hmmm, if someone is  confident that Pitt will be retained next year, and confident AP won't be #4 next year, simple logic says that the person is confident the Colts won't draft a WR at 15 next year.  That's a passive way of making a bold prediction at this point.

 

Its seems that the tiresome mission of rushing in like a white knight to squash anything negative about any colts player or owner often conflicts with meaningful discussion.  

Peirce's value to this team will be answered in contract talks with Pittman. Some contend that Pierce was open a lot this  year and Minshew simply didn't throw to him because most likely Minshew doesn't trust his arm strength. If that is true, then why resign Pittman? If the Colts study the film and see that Pierce was indeed open a lot then do they not have another capable #2 in Pierce who has more speed and the ability to stretch the defense? Why would you resign another #2 in Pittman and say give him 20 mill if that is what the market says he is worth? If it is me, I would let him test the market. I really don't believe there is a lot of market for him out there. I don't think he would be paid close to  20 million by another team. He screams a  big possession receiver and can   the last wr to make it big in the market who has the same game as Pittman.  If the Colts sign him without let him test the market, then that is  jsut silly. Hurt feelings or not, you cannot pay a good player elite money. That is when you get into trouble.  I do think this is the year to go after that wr#1 and if we have to trade up then do it. I think Steichen has deserved more control in the draft and would be surprised to see his finger prints on this draft and I think he sees the value of an AJ Brown and the effect it had on Philly's offence.. The defense can come later.

[husker61]

6 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Peirce's value to this team will be answered in contract talks with Pittman. Some contend that Pierce was open a lot this  year and Minshew simply didn't throw to him because most likely Minshew doesn't trust his arm strength. If that is true, then why resign Pittman? If the Colts study the film and see that Pierce was indeed open a lot then do they not have another capable #2 in Pierce who has more speed and the ability to stretch the defense? Why would you resign another #2 in Pittman and say give him 20 mill if that is what the market says he is worth? If it is me, I would let him test the market. I really don't believe there is a lot of market for him out there. I don't think he would be paid close to  20 million by another team. He screams a  big possession receiver and can   the last wr to make it big in the market who has the same game as Pittman.  If the Colts sign him without let him test the market, then that is  jsut silly. Hurt feelings or not, you cannot pay a good player elite money. That is when you get into trouble. 

I completely agree. I think he will sign a reasonable contract with the colts, below what most here think. The colts will take a shot at a receiver in the middle rounds also. There are always a lot of receivers coming out every year because of the trend to passing offenses in college now.

[runthepost]

10 minutes ago, husker61 said:

I completely agree. I think he will sign a reasonable contract with the colts, below what most here think. The colts will take a shot at a receiver in the middle rounds also. There are always a lot of receivers coming out every year because of the trend to passing offenses in college now.

Pitt is getting 24M a year at the minimum, not too many good/great receivers on the market this offseason

[gspdx]

On 1/19/2024 at 10:13 AM, BeanDiasucci said:

Alec Pierce - 73 receptions, 1107 yards first two seasons

Donte Moncrief - 96 receptions, 1177 yards first two seasons

Zach Pascal - 68 receptions, 875 yards first two seasons

 

Why are people always saying Pierce may develop like Reggie Wayne but don't say he may develop like Donte Moncrief or Zach Pascal? 😆

Seems to me that is the exact argument.   Some say he will bust, others say he will break out.  

 

I say nobody really knows anything.   Lots of opinions but as in most things in life we will have to wait and see.

[ArmchairQB]

On 1/22/2024 at 3:20 PM, Moosejawcolt said:

Peirce's value to this team will be answered in contract talks with Pittman. Some contend that Pierce was open a lot this  year and Minshew simply didn't throw to him because most likely Minshew doesn't trust his arm strength. If that is true, then why resign Pittman? If the Colts study the film and see that Pierce was indeed open a lot then do they not have another capable #2 in Pierce who has more speed and the ability to stretch the defense? Why would you resign another #2 in Pittman and say give him 20 mill if that is what the market says he is worth? If it is me, I would let him test the market. I really don't believe there is a lot of market for him out there. I don't think he would be paid close to  20 million by another team. He screams a  big possession receiver and can   the last wr to make it big in the market who has the same game as Pittman.  If the Colts sign him without let him test the market, then that is  jsut silly. Hurt feelings or not, you cannot pay a good player elite money. That is when you get into trouble.  I do think this is the year to go after that wr#1 and if we have to trade up then do it. I think Steichen has deserved more control in the draft and would be surprised to see his finger prints on this draft and I think he sees the value of an AJ Brown and the effect it had on Philly's offence.. The defense can come later.

The problem with that logic is Pierce and Pittman are not the same type of receiver.  Alec Pierce is a tall burner that has the speed to take the top off of the defense and tall enough to go up and get jump balls.  
 

Pittman is a much tougher possession type receiver that can really get into the heart of a defense and physically out muscle DB’s.  An extremely valuable asset to any offense.

 

not saying they are Harrison and Wayne but as far as play style Pittman is more Reggie Wayne,  Pierce is more Marvin Harrison.  
 

Downs is the small slot type guy and plays more like a TY.  
 

As I’ve said before,  it will be interesting to see Pierce with a guy like AR that has the arm talent to take advantage of the deep game.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 1/27/2024 at 10:12 PM, ArmchairQB said:

The problem with that logic is Pierce and Pittman are not the same type of receiver.  Alec Pierce is a tall burner that has the speed to take the top off of the defense and tall enough to go up and get jump balls.  
 

Pittman is a much tougher possession type receiver that can really get into the heart of a defense and physically out muscle DB’s.  An extremely valuable asset to any offense.

 

not saying they are Harrison and Wayne but as far as play style Pittman is more Reggie Wayne,  Pierce is more Marvin Harrison.  
 

Downs is the small slot type guy and plays more like a TY.  
 

As I’ve said before,  it will be interesting to see Pierce with a guy like AR that has the arm talent to take advantage of the deep game.

Before i pay Pittman the supposed 20 million that many believe he wants, I would change the offence. I would go double tight end as i truly believe Pittman is more of a hybrid TE/WR. I think we could play Granson and Mallory and surround them with Pierce, Downs and our 1st round pick. Thats just me. I think our TE's have similar skill set to Pittman.

[w87r]

Pierce had the 4th highest rate of DPI called per target this year.(minimum 30 targets)

 

13.2% 5-DPIs in 66 targets 

 

1. Courtland Sutton 10%

2. Quentin Johnson 11%

3. Josh Reynolds 12.8%

 

 

 

Stats from

 https://www.sportsinfosolutions.com/(paid subscription)

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, w87r said:

Pierce had the 4th highest rate of DPI called per target this year.(minimum 30 targets)

 

13.2% 5-DPIs in 66 targets 

 

1. Courtland Sutton 10%

2. Quentin Johnson 11%

3. Josh Reynolds 12.8%

 

 

 

Stats from

 https://www.sportsinfosolutions.com/(paid subscription)

That math is weird?

 

5/66 = 7.6% of his targets have been DPIs?