Better or Worse?

[Nickster]

Do we have a better chance to win games this year with Minshew?

[Nickster]

This is when I would have started considering playing Richardson anyway.  I am for developing AR when healthy at this point.

 

However, I think it's somewhat clear that Minshew is the more effective NFL QB right now and gives the team an increased chance of winning games right now.

[Creekside]

 

 

Different skill sets running different plays...But overall chance to win about the same.

[Chucklez]

I think the perception that Minshew gives us a better chance to win games is massively incorrect. He has taken over from Richardson in winning positions twice now to close out the game. And opposing defenses were preparing for Richardson all week instead of Minshew for all 3 games Minshew has played in and won.

Yeah we beat the Ravens with him, but that game was crazy and by all rights we shouldnt really have won that game. It just became who wanted to lose more by the end of it.


I do think Minshew is good enough to keep us in games, but not necessarily win them. We are going to need performances like Moss had last week to win games with Minshew at QB. So he can keep you afloat, but other players on the team need to step up big time to win it.

I think we should be able to get to Richardson returning after the bye week at least with a 5 - 5 record, which would keep us relevant. This Jags game is huge though, we need to remove that tie breaker head to head win they have on us, and its a division game too obvs.... 

[sb41champs]

At this point in his career - Gardner Minshew is definitely the better game manager.

 

With Shane Steichen's creative play calling and working to the QBs strengths - I think the outcome will be comparable.

[TheEdgeis1]

AR give us the better chance, but minshew still gives us a GOOD chance to win in this league.

[chad72]

The bread and butter of this team is still running the ball and playing sound D to keep the game close. Timely passing to move the chains was expected from either QBs and they both delivered in their own ways. However, the scheming in the passing game from Steichen has adapted to both QBs to give us just as much a chance with either of them, IMO.

 

The boost given by our running game and our rejuvenated OL is going to be the key moving forward that will help out, no matter who is at QB to reduce heavy dependence on the passing game.

 

In other words, Steichen's adaptability is the leveler.

[BProland85]

At the early part of the season it may increase the chance for wins as Richardson is learning. Towards the mid to end of season Richardson gives you the better chance to win imo as he should only get better with experience. 

[csmopar]

I’m going with decreased as I’m usually wrong on these and the opposite happens…

[IinD]

If he stays healthy I'll say maybe about the same.

 

He's not too big of a guy so I could easily see him getting hurt unfortunately.

[Hawkeyecolt]

The Colts gained 3.8 yds per drop back when Minshew started at QB vs Baltimore.  The sacks have been for larger losses vs an avg of 2 yard when AR is QB. The other thing is that the offense has been significantly less productive in the red zone with Minshew. 
 

The positives are that Minshew knows the offense better than anyone on the team. He’s got two good RB’s to lean on. He’s an excellent leader and has an excellent play caller on the sidelines.  If the Colts can make the game ugly and keep it close they can win games. 
 

With a huge drop off in mobility and arm strength the Colts are screwed if they fall way behind.  We won’t see throws like the one to Downs on 3rd and 16 last Sunday.  Hopefully we won’t see the type of sacks Minshew took against Baltimore with Kelly calling the line assignments. 
 

Minshew is arguably the best backup QB in the league but he is a backup for a reason.  It will be interesting to see how he does when teams are game planning against him every week. Defense and the running game is going to have carry the team. 

[richard pallo]

I think increase.  Primarily because he has so much experience, especially in Shanes offense.  He can go through all of the progressions if needed.  AR is just going through two so that decreases his options.  Taylor coming back at the right time helps too.  Our starting running back in the opener, Jackson, is not even on the roster now.  So given the facts and circumstances I think Minchew gives us a better chance.  

[#12.]

Short term, Minshew, but that's never been the point.  Richardson needs game action.

[DougDew]

Probably a net increase.  The defense and running game is helping to win games quite bit.  The passing game takes on a different look with either QB.  I wouldn't count on winning a shoot out with either AR or GM.

 

And its kind of hard to do a what if anyway, since AR hasn't finished games.

 

I think if AR would have been able to play 9 games, his growth would give us the best shot to win the last 8.

[Patrick Miller]

I think the more Minshew plays….develops timing with his team….the better he will get. I think we will really get rolling on both sides of the ball…… I think this team is going to catch fire…..

[Chucklez]

On 10/11/2023 at 4:33 PM, Chucklez said:

I think the perception that Minshew gives us a better chance to win games is massively incorrect. He has taken over from Richardson in winning positions twice now to close out the game. And opposing defenses were preparing for Richardson all week instead of Minshew for all 3 games Minshew has played in and won.

Yeah we beat the Ravens with him, but that game was crazy and by all rights we shouldnt really have won that game. It just became who wanted to lose more by the end of it.


I do think Minshew is good enough to keep us in games, but not necessarily win them. We are going to need performances like Moss had last week to win games with Minshew at QB. So he can keep you afloat, but other players on the team need to step up big time to win it.

I think we should be able to get to Richardson returning after the bye week at least with a 5 - 5 record, which would keep us relevant. This Jags game is huge though, we need to remove that tie breaker head to head win they have on us, and its a division game too obvs.... 

This game isnt over yet, but my bolded is looking pretty spot on atm.

On 10/11/2023 at 7:44 PM, Patrick Miller said:

I think the more Minshew plays….develops timing with his team….the better he will get. I think we will really get rolling on both sides of the ball…… I think this team is going to catch fire…..

oh we're catching on fire atm in this game... just not in the good way.

[Patrick Miller]

Yep you’re right.

[BProland85]

After watching this Jags game anyone who actually thought Minshew gave them a better chance to win is talking crazy. 

[Superman]

I didn't see this poll until today, and I voted decreased, but you can look at my history on Minshew and see that I've never been high on him.

[compuls1v3]

On 10/11/2023 at 3:26 AM, Nickster said:

This is when I would have started considering playing Richardson anyway.  I am for developing AR when healthy at this point.

 

However, I think it's somewhat clear that Minshew is the more effective NFL QB right now and gives the team an increased chance of winning games right now.

Do you still have this take,  or was the Jags just a bad game?

[John Waylon]

Minshew can get you through a pinch. 
 

Minshew cannot carry your season. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

if shane can use our main weapons in 2 back sets minshew can win for us , if shane can call the plays for a 2 running back set we can be unstoppable 

[Nickster]

12 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

Do you still have this take,  or was the Jags just a bad game?

 

It was a really bad game from Minshew.  That's for sure.  He did finish and win the 3 games we won though.  

 

I'd say if I had to yes Minshew still gives us a better chance of winning than AR would at this point.  I thought he gave us a slightly better chance of winning and still do. 

 

Although, there are some impressive signs from AR, he didn't really play very good QB over all, 45 QBR.  Not that anyone expected that level, but some here inflated his contributions I think.

 

 

 

 

[Nickster]

21 hours ago, Superman said:

I didn't see this poll until today, and I voted decreased, but you can look at my history on Minshew and see that I've never been high on him.

 

I probably should have made 5 possible answers including slightly increases and slightly decreases.  I'm not high on Minshew either.  I just thought and still do think, he gives us a better chance of winning games this year by a slight margin. 

[Nickster]

13 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

Do you still have this take,  or was the Jags just a bad game?

 

And I looked it up.  This was an outlier for GM in the TO department.  He has thrown 47 TDs v. 17 INTs in his career.  

Sunday was his first 3 INT game of his career and he had the fumble too, although Raimann whiffed on that play and there wasn't much culpability on Minshew's part on that play IMO.

 

 

 

[RollerColt]

I guess I just feel that if Minshew was living up to his hype (all because of hair on his face) that the Eagles would've kept him. 

 

His stats are decent. Very few turnovers, good completions and such. But even watching him when he was the starter for Jacksonville he just... didn't seem to have that killer instinct. That will to win.... 

 

Like all backups... he's just... meh... 

 

I don't see it. I don't see how meh gets you a better chance than Richardson.

[Nickster]

10 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

if shane can use our main weapons in 2 back sets minshew can win for us , if shane can call the plays for a 2 running back set we can be unstoppable 

 

Minshew turned it over 4 times.  Doesn't really matter what sets we call if that happens. 

[lollygagger8]

I think if they can:

 

1) Get the screen game going (which btw is light years ahead of Reich's screens)

2) Run some bootlegs

3) Run more wheel routes to RB's.....

 

I think we can open up the run game for Moss and JT and it will help mask Minshew's deficiencies. 

 

4) Oh and.....get that play action going and GET THOSE TE's INVOLVED! 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I probably should have made 5 possible answers including slightly increases and slightly decreases.  I'm not high on Minshew either.  I just thought and still do think, he gives us a better chance of winning games this year by a slight margin. 

 

I might have agreed before I saw Richardson play. Minshew is generally a steady presence. He's a good backup, but I think the real potential for this team was connected to Richardson's ability to make big plays.

 

I guess I might say that with Richardson, this team could have won anywhere between 2-10 games this year, but with Minshew, it's probably more like 5-7.

[Nickster]

11 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I guess I just feel that if Minshew was living up to his hype (all because of hair on his face) that the Eagles would've kept him. 

 

His stats are decent. Very few turnovers, good completions and such. But even watching him when he was the starter for Jacksonville he just... didn't seem to have that killer instinct. That will to win.... 

 

Like all backups... he's just... meh... 

 

I don't see it. I don't see how meh gets you a better chance than Richardson.

 

I guess my question is why do we think Richardson gave us a better chance to win?  Especially in the small sample size that he didn't win any games?

 

If there is someone who is a big GM advocate on here, I haven't seen it.  His limited by his arm strength and that's been clear since he came into the league.  

 

In a good situation he can move the ball and has really low TO numbers for a career.  He has 21 TOs including lost fumbles for a career of 38 games.  That means almost 25% of his TOs for his career happened Sunday.  That probably isn't likely to happen again.

 

But what has Richardson done on the field stat wise that makes anyone feel he was a better option for winning?

It must be feel stuff, because the results do not support that position as far as I can tell.

 

I've NEVER personally thought of Minshew as anything but a fringe starter/backup guy.

[Nickster]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I might have agreed before I saw Richardson play. Minshew is generally a steady presence. He's a good backup, but I think the real potential for this team was connected to Richardson's ability to make big plays.

 

I guess I might say that with Richardson, this team could have won anywhere between 2-10 games this year, but with Minshew, it's probably more like 5-7.

Well that's about what I think.  And I wasn't talking for moving forward, I was just talking about that current time.  Obviously the shoulder changes things. 

 

I still don't think we are a very good FB team regardless of who is behind center right now.  That being said though, there are a lot of bad FB teams right now, so I still think we have a chance, even this year.

 

Not if GM turns it over 4 times though lol.  Man he had almost 25% of his total career TOs Sunday.  That's kind of hard to believe. 

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Well that's about what I think.  And I wasn't talking for moving forward, I was just talking about that current time.  Obviously the shoulder changes things. 

 

I still don't think we are a very good FB team regardless of who is behind center right now.  That being said though, there are a lot of bad FB teams right now, so I still think we have a chance, even this year.

 

Not if GM turns it over 4 times though lol.  Man he had almost 25% of his total career TOs Sunday.  That's kind of hard to believe. 

 

I agree with all of this. I think our roster is still in need of a lot of help, and even if Richardson had a special rookie season and propelled the team to a playoff appearance, there would still be a need for significant improvement. And if somehow we get to the playoffs with Minshew -- which I highly doubt -- we still need to upgrade OL, WR, DB, etc.

[Nickster]

On 10/11/2023 at 10:33 AM, Chucklez said:

I think the perception that Minshew gives us a better chance to win games is massively incorrect. He has taken over from Richardson in winning positions twice now to close out the game.

 

Yeah, but really?  AR left with a 7 points lead v. Hou and we won by 11 and he left with a 4 point lead v. Tenn and we won by 7 so looking at it from your logic, Minshew increased the leads he was left with both times.  Plus you are talking Minshew coming in during the 1st Q or early 2nd Q.

 

Minshew played around 6 of the 8 Qs in those two wins.   The lion's share of the work in both of those wins was from GM.  

[DougDew]

55 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Although, there are some impressive signs from AR, he didn't really play very good QB over all, 45 QBR.  Not that anyone expected that level, but some here inflated his contributions I think.

This wins the post of the month.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I didn't see this poll, tough to tell so I voted about the same. AR was playing above average before he got injured though so I was leaning toward decreases but I went same.

[Breeze]

All rosters are at the mercy of their signal caller.  Very few are able to look good or ‘maintain’ a high level of play if they don’t have The Guy to start with, or if their The Guy gets hurt.  If Minshew turns into Matt Ryan and can’t escape pressure or get the ball downfield, we’ll get a dose of LB’s crowding the line of scrimmage, DBs playing tight coverage, and defenses bringing that extra guy or guys before GM has a chance to react.  They won’t need to worry about anything beyond 20 yards.  Suddenly, RBs have no holes opening up, and the OL gets overwhelmed, making it seem like we have a lot more holes on the roster to fix in the off-season.

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Yeah, but really?  AR left with a 7 points lead v. Hou and we won by 11 and he left with a 4 point lead v. Tenn and we won by 7 so looking at it from your logic, Minshew increased the leads he was left with both times.  Plus you are talking Minshew coming in during the 1st Q or early 2nd Q.

 

Minshew played around 6 of the 8 Qs in those two wins.   The lion's share of the work in both of those wins was from GM.  

It is easier on a backup QB that comes in with a lead. Mustache wasn't behind when he came in against Houston or Tennessee, so he had very little pressure, just don't turn it over and run Moss and let your defense make plays. 

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, Breeze said:

All rosters are at the mercy of their signal caller.  Very few are able to look good or ‘maintain’ a high level of play if they don’t have The Guy to start with, or if their The Guy gets hurt.  If Minshew turns into Matt Ryan and can’t escape pressure or get the ball downfield, we’ll get a dose of LB’s crowding the line of scrimmage, DBs playing tight coverage, and defenses bringing that extra guy or guys before GM has a chance to react.  They won’t need to worry about anything beyond 20 yards.  Suddenly, RBs have no holes opening up, and the OL gets overwhelmed, making it seem like we have a lot more holes on the roster to fix in the off-season.

 

For the Colts sake, I hope @Nickster is right about Minshew increasing our chances. But we have seen this story before, he plays well for a few games on a streak but then teams catch on and his limitations get exposed more over the course of an entire season. The same thing happened with Nick Foles. Caught lightning in a bottle towards the end of the season for the Eagles' SB run, then did a similar thing for the Bears for a playoff game but when asked to play for an extended set of games, he couldn't maintain a high level of play since his limitations were exposed. There was no alternate gear or out of structure ability to overcome his limitations. 

[RollerColt]

44 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I guess my question is why do we think Richardson gave us a better chance to win?  Especially in the small sample size that he didn't win any games?

 

If there is someone who is a big GM advocate on here, I haven't seen it.  His limited by his arm strength and that's been clear since he came into the league.  

 

In a good situation he can move the ball and has really low TO numbers for a career.  He has 21 TOs including lost fumbles for a career of 38 games.  That means almost 25% of his TOs for his career happened Sunday.  That probably isn't likely to happen again.

 

But what has Richardson done on the field stat wise that makes anyone feel he was a better option for winning?

It must be feel stuff, because the results do not support that position as far as I can tell.

 

I've NEVER personally thought of Minshew as anything but a fringe starter/backup guy.

 

I'll get one thing out of the way. I'm not advocating that Richardson as of right now is better than Minshew. The stats show this. 

 

But, I do think that Richardson's talent level allows the team a better chance to win, but it's a double edged sword because as a rookie with limited experience he's also more likely to cost us a win. Richardson can throw on the run. He has decent feel in the pocket. He was starting to make good reads against defenses. He also throws the ball way too hard which was in part why we had so many drops. 

 

I guess my point is that more often than not, Minshew is not a game changer, and therefore he doesn't often influence the outcome of the game compared to Richardson. 

 

I'll toss out this past weekend as an anomaly (hopefully). 

[chad72]

12 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

 

I'll get one thing out of the way. I'm not advocating that Richardson as of right now is better than Minshew. The stats show this. 

 

But, I do think that Richardson's talent level allows the team a better chance to win, but it's a double edged sword because as a rookie with limited experience he's also more likely to cost us a win. Richardson can throw on the run. He has decent feel in the pocket. He was starting to make good reads against defenses. He also throws the ball way too hard which was in part why we had so many drops. 

 

I guess my point is that more often than not, Minshew is not a game changer, and therefore he doesn't often influence the outcome of the game compared to Richardson. 

 

I'll toss out this past weekend as an anomaly (hopefully). 

 

Bottom line, it is easier to plan for a predictable floor that Minshew brings than for the unpredictable ceiling that AR brings. The coaches, they have to roll with what they have. In the limited time we saw AR play, he wasn't turning it over as much as I expected him to and was smart about it for the most part. He may not have been efficient but I'd rather him have an incompletion than an INT.