With the Next Pick Part 2 -- "The First Step"

[Nate!]

7 hours ago, RNGDShobby said:

I got the impression with the 44th pick they were selecting between Tippmann and Brents. One of the staff said something like 'there's our answer'

Came away with same conclusion that they were gonna draft Tippmann if he was there.  Never know for certain as the comment easily could be been a response to, do you think the Packers take Brent’s.

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Pelt said:

I don't know. The game looked like it finally slowed down for Lawrence last year, so they have quite a significant jump on us in large part to that.

 

But I do like that Cooter had a hand in Lawrence's development last year. I think he gets lost in the shuffle a little bit in AR's potential development this season. It won't be just Steichen. And of course, AR will have an actual QB coach on staff to help him too.

 

I think AR ended up in the best possible situation for his development.

Cam turner as well

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Richardson has to show he is able to at least run the offense effectively in order to play week one. That means understanding the playbook ect. Has to at least be able to function in the offense.

[Fluke_33]

Just watched it.  That was fantastic!

 

I can’t wait to see all of them but I really look forward to downs.   Talk about eyes full of determination.  He said he will be the best wr in this draft and I think his drive may get him there.  Not to mention Reggie and that top scout clamoring for him. 

I also can’t wait to see how jaylon Jones pans out.  That one scout stood on the table for him.  Ballard made it sound like he had to throw him that bone.  
 

the whole production was really special.  Edge in the house!

[ChuggaBeer]

18 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Richardson has to show he is able to at least run the offense effectively in order to play week one. That means understanding the playbook ect. Has to at least be able to function in the offense.

I think we can all agree that he will start before Will Levis ever sees the field 

[Zoltan]

After watching part of the video it made me think about the two players we have heard Brown just absolutely love the players upside and that has been Dayo and now Richardson. Hopefully Dayo makes the jump this year and Richardson will also hit.

[Shive]

1 hour ago, Fluke_33 said:

Just watched it.  That was fantastic!

 

I can’t wait to see all of them but I really look forward to downs.   Talk about eyes full of determination.  He said he will be the best wr in this draft and I think his drive may get him there.  Not to mention Reggie and that top scout clamoring for him. 

He was my favorite WR in this draft, so I definitely think he could be the best one from this draft class.

[CR91]

Josh Downs. That look in his eyes. My god. That's determination.

[RNGDShobby]

I enjoyed the bit where one of the staff said that Ballard was the best scout in the organization.

[csmopar]

15 hours ago, DougDew said:

As far as AR, it appears that it was Ballard's pick.  Of course he's the GM, and he receives input from everybody, but the video does not speak to Steichen or Irsay talking much about the QB.  The video at least seems edited to emphasize it was Ballard's selection...and not pounded by the HC or demanded by the owner.  Irsay's role here is to be the happy-boss welcoming AR to the Family. 

 

Just mentioning it for those of you who think that picking the QB is done by someone else other than Ballard. 

I got a different impression. I got that it was an entire group consensus.  But I also got the impression that it was Ballard’s call to stay at 4 vs trading up. 

[csmopar]

14 hours ago, Superman said:

 

He's just sharpening his arrows to shoot them at Ballard and anyone who believes the Rivers/Wentz/Ryan decisions were influenced by Reich and Irsay. If we can isolate Ballard as the party responsible for picking Richardson, then "when AR busts" the blame can be laid solely at Ballard's feet.

And if AR becomes a top 10 QB in a couple years, I hope someone screenshots his post so we can remind him to thank Ballard

[luv_pony_express]

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’d flip for Marvin!    I know we ALL would.  
 

But if that doesn’t happen, it appears there are some fantastic consolation prizes available!      More in 24!!

 

So what slogan do we use if we’re out of playoff contention and phoning it in the last weeks of the season for draft position?

 

Starvin’ for Marvin?

[Nate!]

24 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

So what slogan do we use if we’re out of playoff contention and phoning it in the last weeks of the season for draft position?

 

Starvin’ for Marvin?

Collapsing for (the rights to) Caleb

[coltsfeva]

16 hours ago, DoubleE Colt said:

To be honest I don't think it's a massive leap to challenge for the division next season, Jags won it with a 9-8 and if we hadn't shot ourselves in the foot numerous times last year we'd have had several more wins. 

 When you think about the games last year, we could have won 4 or 5 more (Washington, Minnesota, Philadelphia, both Texan’s games). 
  In hindsight, it’s good we didn’t. That being said, a double-digit win season (playing the AFC South and NFC South), is entirely possible. 
  One of my favorite visuals from the show was Richardson doing a flip on his pro day. I couldn’t help but think that I’d never see Peyton do that!

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, luv_pony_express said:

So what slogan do we use if we’re out of playoff contention and phoning it in the last weeks of the season for draft position?

 

Starvin’ for Marvin?

                     

[coltsfeva]

1 hour ago, luv_pony_express said:

So what slogan do we use if we’re out of playoff contention and phoning it in the last weeks of the season for draft position?

 

Starvin’ for Marvin?

Blue garrison for Harrison?

[coltsblue1844]

13 hours ago, ChuggaBeer said:

I think we can all agree that he will start before Will Levis ever sees the field 

I think they'll both start this year, honestly

[lollygagger8]

The Colts need to do whatever they need to do to keep Morocco Brown on staff in the future

[Mr. Irrelevant]

22 hours ago, Solid84 said:

That moment when it was announced over the speakers that Arizona had traded the pick. Chris’ heart sank. Then it registered that it was to the Texans. Amazing moment. 
 

I don’t always agree with what he does, but the man believes in what he does and has the cojonas to see it through. Mad respect. 

Having seen it a couple of times now, I’m kinda surprised Colts didn’t move up to third pick if they really wanted AR. I think there was a split moment when Ballard was kicking himself for not doing just that! Boy did he looked relieved when he heard that the lovely Texans was the ones trading up…. 

 

[sb41champs]

Thanks for sharing!!

 

I love these videos!!

[richard pallo]

Watched it a second time and I think I saw Irsay entering the draft room using a cane.  That was a first for me if my eyes weren’t deceiving me.

[cdgacoltsfan]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Watched it a second time and I think I saw Irsay entering the draft room using a cane.  That was a first for me if my eyes weren’t deceiving me.

Yes , the plan was to cane Ballard if they missed out on AR.

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

Having seen it a couple of times now, I’m kinda surprised Colts didn’t move up to third pick if they really wanted AR. I think there was a split moment when Ballard was kicking himself for not doing just that! Boy did he looked relieved when he heard that the lovely Texans was the ones trading up…. 

 

I think they wanted AR bad, but Ballard also said they wanted at least 10 draft picks this draft, so they may have valued the extra picks higher. 

[cjwhiskers]

41 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Watched it a second time and I think I saw Irsay entering the draft room using a cane.  That was a first for me if my eyes weren’t deceiving me.

He definitely seems to be laboring more than normal. The other odd thing with Irsay was the clip of his call with Richardson. 
 

Ballard and Shane talk to AR using the standard landline but then you see Irsay using his iPhone. With the other draft picks you see Irsay using the landline. Maybe they didn’t catch all of what Irsay said to AR and had him reenact it? Just a weird inconsistency I noticed. 

[luv_pony_express]

1 hour ago, lollygagger8 said:

The Colts need to do whatever they need to do to keep Morocco Brown on staff in the future

Rock will end up a GM sooner rather than later.  So will Dodds.  We need to enjoy them while we can.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

2 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I think they wanted AR bad, but Ballard also said they wanted at least 10 draft picks this draft, so they may have valued the extra picks higher. 

Well, we don’t know the price of moving up for the Colts but unless Ballard was very certain that no team would realistically move up for a QB, I feel that gamble was a bit too risky for my taste. But hey, it worked out, so big cojones! 

[Dingus McGirt]

On 5/4/2023 at 4:21 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Arguing with him is useless but have at it  

True.  He's this forum's Gregg Doyel.

[Fluke_33]

23 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

Blue garrison for Harrison?

Be crucified like Mary’s son for Harrison?   Too far?

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 5/4/2023 at 1:23 PM, csmopar said:

One big theme here that has me higher on AR than I was is this work thing. He stated many times that he’s gonna out work people. He wants to be legendary so if his work ethic is as high as his dreams, look out league:

 

I also noticed the many comments about not drafting for the now. They talked about 3-5 years out. Again. This signals to me that they’re in on AR for the long haul. For better or worse. 

AR5 does seem to have a genuine desire to put in the work to be the best he can be......and that should be scary for other teams considering his off the charts physical talent!  I liked when he said he has to go home because there is a limit on how long players are allowed to practice and he said he doesn't want to go home, he wants to stay at colt facility to practice. 

[DougDew]

On 5/4/2023 at 4:08 PM, Superman said:

 

First, if Richardson is anyone's guy, it's Morocco Brown. Don't know how anyone can listen and watch what the Colts have put out in the last week and not understand that he's the one who get the ball rolling on Richardson in the first place, and probably who pounded the table the hardest.

 

Second, Randy Mueller -- former NFL GM/exec who's also writing for The Atlantic -- put out a piece earlier today, suggesting that the Colts decision makers might not have been all on the same page for Richardson. It seems like his basis is analyzing the somewhat muted reaction shown in the draft room after the pick was announced. Now seeing this video, it shows that the celebration had already happened, so when the pick was finally announced it was just a few people with some random claps. 

 

I bring that up because it should be obvious to those of us who really pay attention to the Colts operation over the last few years -- especially the front office -- that they prioritize building a consensus before draft day. The idea that they would spend the 4th pick on a player that the whole operation wasn't excited about is kind of crazy, much less for a QB. And of course the owner would sign off.

 

So like you said, it misses the point to identify one person who is solely or mostly responsible for the team's value on any drafted player. The Colts' draft operation appears to be as collaborative as any process could be. Obviously the buck stops with Ballard.

Collaboration is in the eye of the beholder.  Folks can attribute decisions to who they want.   If Morroco Brown pounded his fists, I'm sure that will give some the ability to say that he was mainly responsible for the pick, which you kind of eluded to in the first part of your post before taking it away later.   

 

What I see in the video is a normal functioning Corporate Decision Making process where the Position Experts provide information to the guy who makes the decision.  Its a collaboration only to the extent that each person is executing their job description as intended. 

 

 Its Ballard's pick.  The video shows us how he set up his picking process.  I think the word collaborative is not the right word for describing the process..   

 

[DougDew]

@NewColtsFan.  I don't understand your sad face.  The CEO of General Motors can speak to how cars are built, and he can say that everybody from the CEO down to the custodian who cleans up the facilities "collaborate" to build a car.

 

In fact, that's why all companies need employees.  The final product is a collaborative effort.  It's a broad word that can mean what any reader wants it to mean.

 

I would say that people doing their jobs, providing their input into players, is not "collaborating" on a pick.  I guess you use the term more broadly.

[cdgacoltsfan]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

@NewColtsFan.  I don't understand your sad face.  The CEO of General Motors can speak to how cars are built, and he can say that everybody from the CEO down to the custodian who cleans up the facilities "collaborate" to build a car.

 

In fact, that's why all companies need employees.  The final product is a collaborative effort.  It's a broad word that can mean what any reader wants it to mean.

 

I would say that people doing their jobs, providing their input into players, is not "collaborating" on a pick.  I guess you use the term more broadly.

Who cares ...they made the correct choice. You can feel the pendulum swinging in a better direction. They ( like the 31 other teams,) would have passed on Levis if AR was gone. If the Colts had made the mistake of picking Levis , AR would have been picked at #5.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Who cares ...they made the correct choice. You can feel the pendulum swinging in a better direction. They ( like the 31 other teams,) would have passed on Levis if AR was gone. If the Colts had made the mistake of picking Levis , AR would have been picked at #5.

I thought the video was interesting in that it shows us how Ballard makes his picks, and how he has set up the process for others in the FO to provide him input into his picks.

 

The rest.....We're going to start a perpetual AR vs Levis debate for how long...months...years?  Carry on that battle that very few here care about.

[NewColtsFan]

32 minutes ago, DougDew said:

@NewColtsFan.  I don't understand your sad face.  The CEO of General Motors can speak to how cars are built, and he can say that everybody from the CEO down to the custodian who cleans up the facilities "collaborate" to build a car.

 

In fact, that's why all companies need employees.  The final product is a collaborative effort.  It's a broad word that can mean what any reader wants it to mean.

 

I would say that people doing their jobs, providing their input into players, is not "collaborating" on a pick.  I guess you use the term more broadly.

Since you asked….

I used a sad face because multiple posters made what I believe to be pretty crushing arguments of your position.   But your response says you completely reject those arguments.  
 

To me, it’s the adult version of….  “I’m not listening!   I’m not listening!   You can’t make me!”

 

You're right.   No one can make you accept explanations that you disagree with no matter what.    I found your response quite sad.    I didn’t really think there was a “yeah, but….” counter to make.   But you did.   To me, that’s sad.  
 

Again, I only responded because you asked. 

 

 

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Since you asked….

I used a sad face because multiple posters made what I believe to be pretty crushing arguments of your position.   But your response says you completely reject those arguments.  
 

To me, it’s the adult version of….  “I’m not listening!   I’m not listening!   You can’t make me!”

 

You're right.   No one can make you accept explanations that you disagree with no matter what.    I found your response quite sad.    I didn’t really think there was a “yeah, but….” counter to make.   But you did.   To me, that’s sad.  
 

Again, I only responded because you asked. 

 

 

Crushing argument against? LOL.  They didn't even lay a finger on it.   

 

Did you see the video.  They were not suggesting to Ballard who they think he should pick at the time.  They were telling Ballard specific attributes of the players they studied.  They had nothing to do with making the pick, other than telling Ballard the same things they probably told him about the players for the last few days, which is their job.  Geez.

 

Execution of the corporate org chart as intended is not Webster's definition of the word collaboration.  IMO.

[Two_pound]

With regards to the "muted" almost nonexistent celebrations in the Colt draft room following the Richardson pick, for all we know that was footage from an hour before the draft that some media jack spliced in to make it look like there was "dissension" among Colt executives over the Richardson pick. Bottom line, Irsay, Ballard, and Steichen got who they wanted and didn't trade up to get him. And everyone was very, very, excited. WOOOOOOOO, full speed ahead, go Colts!!!!!!!!

[stitches]

On 5/4/2023 at 11:08 PM, Superman said:

 

First, if Richardson is anyone's guy, it's Morocco Brown. Don't know how anyone can listen and watch what the Colts have put out in the last week and not understand that he's the one who get the ball rolling on Richardson in the first place, and probably who pounded the table the hardest.

 

Second, Randy Mueller -- former NFL GM/exec who's also writing for The Atlantic -- put out a piece earlier today, suggesting that the Colts decision makers might not have been all on the same page for Richardson. It seems like his basis is analyzing the somewhat muted reaction shown in the draft room after the pick was announced. Now seeing this video, it shows that the celebration had already happened, so when the pick was finally announced it was just a few people with some random claps. 

 

I bring that up because it should be obvious to those of us who really pay attention to the Colts operation over the last few years -- especially the front office -- that they prioritize building a consensus before draft day. The idea that they would spend the 4th pick on a player that the whole operation wasn't excited about is kind of crazy, much less for a QB. And of course the owner would sign off.

 

So like you said, it misses the point to identify one person who is solely or mostly responsible for the team's value on any drafted player. The Colts' draft operation appears to be as collaborative as any process could be. Obviously the buck stops with Ballard.

I agree... it seems like Marocco Brown is the guy who pushed for Richardson the hardest. IMO this pick can either make Marocco Brown a GM or seriously hurt his chances going forward. And of course Ballard has been scouting with him for ... what is it? decades now? I bet Ballard trusts him a lot. And I'm not saying this in order to take responsibility away from Ballard. Like you said... at the end it's Ballard's decision and he chooses who to trust and whose opinion to put the most weight on. And if Richardson hits, it would be a win for Ballard... and for every member of the Colts organization, but maybe just a tad bit more of a win for Brown. And if he busts, it will be again on Ballard and the whole Colts organization... but maybe a tad bit more of a bust on Brown. 

 

About Randy Mueller... IMO he's allowing his pre-draft evaluation of the prospect(he wasn't a fan and he thought him and Levis were not worth a 1st round pick), influence his judgement in what he's seeing in the post-draft aftermath and he's projecting his own doubts on the Colts evaluators. That's why he was quick to jump on this 3 seconds video from the draft coverage in which they showed video from the Colts draft room that was NOT live and was happening probably minutes after the pick was made and the excitement has subsided. And he should have known better... but he didn't. Oh well... we have the full video of the moment Arizona traded back... we have the reaction of Ballard and we have the reaction of the room to the actual pick. And much more important - we actually have the guy we wanted... the rest is all moot... 

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Since you asked….

I used a sad face because multiple posters made what I believe to be pretty crushing arguments of your position.   But your response says you completely reject those arguments.  
 

To me, it’s the adult version of….  “I’m not listening!   I’m not listening!   You can’t make me!”

 

You're right.   No one can make you accept explanations that you disagree with no matter what.    I found your response quite sad.    I didn’t really think there was a “yeah, but….” counter to make.   But you did.   To me, that’s sad.  
 

Again, I only responded because you asked. 

 

 

I personally don't think this is an argumentative difference.  I think of collaboration as having multiple people advising Ballard on whom to pick.  "I think we should pick him......."I don't think we should pick him"  I did not hear any of that language.  I saw multiple people give their objective opinions about what they liked in each player. 

 

 I don't see that as "collaboration" as it has been used here in the past.....as if Irsay, Reich, and Ballard all were advocating for different players at one time before coming to a consensus, with Ballard perhaps even giving in, in order to have consensus. 

 

I don't see this video showing any of that amongst the different FO personnel.  You and others may see it differently.

[Superman]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Collaboration is in the eye of the beholder.  Folks can attribute decisions to who they want.   If Morroco Brown pounded his fists, I'm sure that will give some the ability to say that he was mainly responsible for the pick, which you kind of eluded to in the first part of your post before taking it away later.   

 

What I see in the video is a normal functioning Corporate Decision Making process where the Position Experts provide information to the guy who makes the decision.  Its a collaboration only to the extent that each person is executing their job description as intended. 

 

 Its Ballard's pick.  The video shows us how he set up his picking process.  I think the word collaborative is not the right word for describing the process..   

 

I don't think most of this is pertinent. You want to split hairs on what "collaborative" means and doesn't mean, and make up titles and processes. Obviously you desire to frame all of this in a specific way, obviously for a specific reason, and that's your choice. Like you said, folks can attribute decisions to who they want.

 

But it's unnecessary. Ballard is the GM, and the team just used the #4 pick on a raw QB. If Richardson doesn't work out, and especially if one of the other three QBs under consideration winds up being a star for the next decade, it will be a mark against Ballard. No one will argue that this wasn't Ballard's pick, or that he's not responsible for the outcome. 

 

At the same time, there's no basis for isolating the other decision makers from this pick. Just like it has been for the last several years -- really, for decades with Irsay -- when decisions like this are made, the owner, GM, and HC are all in the room, they all have input. In just so happens that with the QB decisions in 2020 and 2021, we know that there was dissension in the room, because the decision makers have made it clear. And it just so happens that Reich's background and input were significant factors (and there's nothing wrong with that). But when they come out of the room with a collective decision, they've all bought in. That doesn't mean the GM isn't responsible for the decision, but it's not hard to acknowledge the obvious factors involved. I think Irsay's public comments, along with his decision to keep Ballard and fire Reich, speak volumes about how he assigns responsibility for the QB decisions, and he was in the room.

 

Specific to the Richardson decision, it's obvious that the staff in general were enthusiastic about him. Ed Dodds was open about being skeptical, and after some time, he was on board. Morocco Brown was in from the beginning, Jamie Moore had been on board for months. The HC just ran an offense that seems like a perfect fit for someone like Richardson, and other members of his staff have similar experience with QBs. Ballard obviously was a fan, and he told Dodds a month before the draft who he wanted. Irsay said they would have taken Richardson #1. The staff sat in the draft room holding their breath for half an hour, hoping that their guy would be there, and they celebrated when they realized he would. Everything we saw and heard screams collaboration and consensus.

 

That doesn't mean anyone is trying to build in an escape clause for Ballard. It's unnecessary. Collaboration and consensus do not absolve the GM of responsibility for the roster, and especially not for the QB selected with the fourth overall pick. And I can say that, while at the same time believing that Reich's previous input was a major factor in the QB decisions in recent years. Acknowledging that perceived fact still doesn't mean Ballard is free from responsibility.

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think most of this is pertinent. You want to split hairs on what "collaborative" means and doesn't mean, and make up titles and processes. Obviously you desire to frame all of this in a specific way, obviously for a specific reason, and that's your choice. Like you said, folks can attribute decisions to who they want.

 

But it's unnecessary. Ballard is the GM, and the team just used the #4 pick on a raw QB. If Richardson doesn't work out, and especially if one of the other three QBs under consideration winds up being a star for the next decade, it will be a mark against Ballard. No one will argue that this wasn't Ballard's pick, or that he's not responsible for the outcome. 

 

At the same time, there's no basis for isolating the other decision makers from this pick. Just like it has been for the last several years -- really, for decades with Irsay -- when decisions like this are made, the owner, GM, and HC are all in the room, they all have input. In just so happens that with the QB decisions in 2020 and 2021, we know that there was dissension in the room, because the decision makers have made it clear. And it just so happens that Reich's background and input were significant factors (and there's nothing wrong with that). But when they come out of the room with a collective decision, they've all bought in. That doesn't mean the GM isn't responsible for the decision, but it's not hard to acknowledge the obvious factors involved. I think Irsay's public comments, along with his decision to keep Ballard and fire Reich, speak volumes about how he assigns responsibility for the QB decisions, and he was in the room.

 

Specific to the Richardson decision, it's obvious that the staff in general were enthusiastic about him. Ed Dodds was open about being skeptical, and after some time, he was on board. Morocco Brown was in from the beginning, Jamie Moore had been on board for months. The HC just ran an offense that seems like a perfect fit for someone like Richardson, and other members of his staff have similar experience with QBs. Ballard obviously was a fan, and he told Dodds a month before the draft who he wanted. Irsay said they would have taken Richardson #1. The staff sat in the draft room holding their breath for half an hour, hoping that their guy would be there, and they celebrated when they realized he would. Everything we saw and heard screams collaboration and consensus.

 

That doesn't mean anyone is trying to build in an escape clause for Ballard. It's unnecessary. Collaboration and consensus do not absolve the GM of responsibility for the roster, and especially not for the QB selected with the fourth overall pick. And I can say that, while at the same time believing that Reich's previous input was a major factor in the QB decisions in recent years. Acknowledging that perceived fact still doesn't mean Ballard is free from responsibility.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say about the specific individuals.

 

Over the years, I've read, "pounded fists for"..."collaborated"....    A lot of people interpret that wrong.

 

No, the situation has never been weighted towards someone else driving the pick, but Ballard being "responsible" for the pick because he's the GM. 

No, it's not that "the buck stops with him" because he's the GM. 

 

He alone decides who the pick is.  (Unless Irsay steps in)

 

Its a concept that doesn't need a complicated speech, and that's what the video clearly shows..

 

If people knew how decisions are made in a big business from a perch near the top, what the Colts are doing is common.  The top dog makes the important decisions with information provided to him by the subordinates.  Getting the correct information to the decision maker the way he wants it is what is collaborative. 

 

Making the decision is not.

 

Sure, each of the information guys might have their favorites and may skew their presentation towards that.  If Ballard is doing his job, and I think he does, he's well aware of their biases but he doesn't pay attention to it right now.  He goes with what he thinks is the correct pick at the time.