Would you rather stay put for Levis and/or Richardson at 4, or trade up for Stroud/Young at 3

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

He did say that himself.  He also said what hes been doing in his recovery, where hes at now and where he is on pace to be in the coming weeks.

 

The information makes it look like hes more likely to be ready for camp than he is to miss any significant time.  He may not miss time at all due to this injury 

 

 

He looks ready to go approx Aug 1st.  
 

But he’s still going to miss very important time…. Roughly 6 weeks from the draft to the end of spring practice and OTA’s.   Those are very important for rookies.  He’d be starting the fall camp behind schedule.  

[chad72]

10 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Especially when you look at that TH offense that made it easy on hooker. No right windows. No muddy pockets.

But, but, but….picks  

 

When he did have a muddy pocket vs Georgia, it didn’t go well. Stroud also looks like his ceiling has been tapped but I think what he showed vs Georgia can be expanded upon, IMO.
 

Levis is the kind a coach has to be on him most of the time to remind him to continually make good decisions on the field, otherwise his ability to beat man coverage is going to be very good. Richardson has developed less bad tendencies but is more of a blank slate a coach can completely mold, IMO.

 

All TN QBs apparently will work out for them though, in the eyes of Colts fans lol 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, chad72 said:

But, but, but….picks  

 

When he did have a muddy pocket vs Georgia, it didn’t go well. Stroud also looks like his ceiling has been tapped but I think what he showed vs Georgia can be expanded upon, IMO.
 

Levis is the kind a coach has to be on him most of the time to remind him to continually make good decisions on the field, otherwise his ability to beat man coverage is going to be very good. Richardson has developed less bad tendencies but is more of a blank slate a coach can completely mold, IMO.

 

All TN QBs apparently will work out for them though, in the eyes of Colts fans lol 

What I like the most about Levis is his numbers are actually good when staring pressure on third down and needing to deliver. He has already had to throw into tight windows. His throws on tape translate immediately to the nfl. May even have a smaller learning curve then stroud or young.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I am convinced with where this team is at they are taking Levis. Gives them the best chance to win games now. If they go Richardson might as well trade Buckner and other vets because we are just wasting them.

Levis is no more a project then young or stroud. He actually might be better prepared.

[csmopar]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Here's a fun poll I want to hear some answers too. Would you rather stay put at 4 for Richardson/Levis or trade up for Stroud/Young at 3?

 

Lets say the baseline for trading up to 3 is the 4th pick and the 35th pick to move up one spot to 3. In this hypothetical scenario, the Cards will accept 100%. Also, for the purposes of this poll, you may do this trade when the Cards are on the clock at 3 during the real draft if Stroud/Young are on the board and they will accept.

 

Let me know what you think!

Neither. Trade back

[Boondoggle]

28 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Levis is the kind a coach has to be on him most of the time to remind him to continually make good decisions on the field, otherwise his ability to beat man coverage is going to be very good. Richardson has developed less bad tendencies but is more of a blank slate a coach can completely mold, IMO.

Fire up some Levis tape from two years ago and you'll see a QB who has it all.  But last season he lost his OC to the Rams (Coen, who went back to the team) and also had OL issues up front.  This guy didn't have the Bama OL or insane players all around him.  He fought his way through the season with respectable numbers and to me that bodes better for him than had everything been perfect for him.

 

These QBs who go into the NFL after benefitting from having a top unit around them that outclasses their opponents tend to struggle.  Because in the NFL it's an equal playing field.  The difference in roster strength is not that great.  Defenses are smart, they're bigger, and faster, and they're gonna hit you and confuse you pre-snap and your head is spinning already anyway due to the difference in speed plus learning the system.

 

Levis is no Lawrence (i.e. the ideal type of top pick).  But he has good size.  He is athletic.  He has a strong arm.  He is a competitor and known hard worker.  He is a guy who, if he had a good OL like some of these other guys, not to mention his OC from his junior year, would probably be the slam-dunk top pick in this draft.  And he played in the McVay version of the WCO.

 

But I am hoping this overlooking of him we are getting in the media continues.  Because if he somehow ends up being our pick I'm going to be very excited about this team for once.  If it ends up being Young I'll get excited, but might take a little wind-up.  If it's Richardson though I'm gonna be irritated because it will mean this team has more mediocrity ahead before they get it right.  Because that dude is a RB who can throw the ball and if you build the offense around that you will struggle in the final four range in the playoffs.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

wasnt Hooker making a case for Heisman before he got hurt? im not going to pretend to know anything about the guy other than that.

[tvturner]

Give me anyone but Hendon Hooker.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Yeah, Hendon Hooker feels like a mistake. Old and surrounded with too much talent to show whether he is really good enough. 

[Patrick Miller]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Tell that to Cam Newton who couldn't make it to 33 or Michael Vick or McNabb. Peyton was done by 37 and had to be carried to the finish line at 38. Brady shouldn't even count when you're barely getting touched compared to most QBs.

Even if Hooker played until he’s 37 I’d be good with it …..if he pans out of course. That being said I’m on the Will Levis Train. I’m also curious to see Minshew out there…..

[Moosejawcolt]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Here's a fun poll I want to hear some answers too. Would you rather stay put at 4 for Richardson/Levis or trade up for Stroud/Young at 3?

 

Lets say the baseline for trading up to 3 is the 4th pick and the 35th pick to move up one spot to 3. In this hypothetical scenario, the Cards will accept 100%. Also, for the purposes of this poll, you may do this trade when the Cards are on the clock at 3 during the real draft if Stroud/Young are on the board and they will accept.

 

Let me know what you think!

I  think it would take more than that. I  still think a wild card team is Seattle who has the 5th  and I beleive the 20th pick. They have more leverage. Colts are kind of in a sticky postion.

[Moosejawcolt]

30 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

Fire up some Levis tape from two years ago and you'll see a QB who has it all.  But last season he lost his OC to the Rams (Coen, who went back to the team) and also had OL issues up front.  This guy didn't have the Bama OL or insane players all around him.  He fought his way through the season with respectable numbers and to me that bodes better for him than had everything been perfect for him.

 

These QBs who go into the NFL after benefitting from having a top unit around them that outclasses their opponents tend to struggle.  Because in the NFL it's an equal playing field.  The difference in roster strength is not that great.  Defenses are smart, they're bigger, and faster, and they're gonna hit you and confuse you pre-snap and your head is spinning already anyway due to the difference in speed plus learning the system.

 

Levis is no Lawrence (i.e. the ideal type of top pick).  But he has good size.  He is athletic.  He has a strong arm.  He is a competitor and known hard worker.  He is a guy who, if he had a good OL like some of these other guys, not to mention his OC from his junior year, would probably be the slam-dunk top pick in this draft.  And he played in the McVay version of the WCO.

 

But I am hoping this overlooking of him we are getting in the media continues.  Because if he somehow ends up being our pick I'm going to be very excited about this team for once.  If it ends up being Young I'll get excited, but might take a little wind-up.  If it's Richardson though I'm gonna be irritated because it will mean this team has more mediocrity ahead before they get it right.  Because that dude is a RB who can throw the ball and if you build the offense around that you will struggle in the final four range in the playoffs.

Here is my thing about q guy like Levi. He may go on to be the next Mahonnes but my biggest concern bout him and Richardson is this People defend them by saying they had no talent and that is the reason for their mediocre  play. Well answer  me this.  If the Colts draft them are they not  coming  to a to a team  with  medicore  talent as evident by their drafting 4th overall? So if they didn't lift their college team above  mediocrity  how are they going to lift the Colts?  I think that is a fair question.

[chad72]

Reggie Bush, Charles Woodson, Desmond Howard are the last 3 SB winners that also won the Heisman. 

 

Cam Newton, Johnny Manziel, Joe Burrow, Kyler Murray, Carson Palmer, Matt Leinart, Baker Mayfield, RG3, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Danny Wuerffel, Weinke, Mariota, Troy Smith etc., none of these QBs won a SB.

 

I’m fine if our guy is not a Heisman QB

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Let's break this down. The guy is 25. No team in their right mind is not gonna put him on the PUP so that's 4-6 games. If he does play, we're talking best case scenario 11-13 games. More likely I'd put it between 2-6. So lets call it a redshirt season. He's 26 now. Unless you think he's Mahomes and gonna rip the league his first year starting, he's basically a rookie getting thrown into the fire. He's 27 now. QBs it usually takes their second or third year to start to get a feel for the NFL. By the time he hits his prime, he's 30. Not including any other injuries that he might get along the way. So you tell me. Is that worth it?

Better than spending a top 4 pick on  this  group. Get Hooker and put him in  there.  If he is a disaster u r probably picking in the top 3 next year. Then u go get that sure thing lol. 

[dw49]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Here's a fun poll I want to hear some answers too. Would you rather stay put at 4 for Richardson/Levis or trade up for Stroud/Young at 3?

 

Lets say the baseline for trading up to 3 is the 4th pick and the 35th pick to move up one spot to 3. In this hypothetical scenario, the Cards will accept 100%. Also, for the purposes of this poll, you may do this trade when the Cards are on the clock at 3 during the real draft if Stroud/Young are on the board and they will accept.

 

Let me know what you think!

 

I think you have the move way over valued calling for our 2nd and 4th rounders. The draft chart shows the move being worth 400 points and pick 35 is worth 550 and pick 106 is worth 82 points. No way Ballard would go for that deal. Furthermore if AZ likes Anderson much more than the other top prospects , they'll way prefer trading with the Colts. If that is the case , I think probably this years 3rd and 4th plus next years 2nd might do it.

[chad72]

9 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Here is my thing about q guy like Levi. He may go on to be the next Mahonnes but my biggest concern bout him and Richardson is this People defend them by saying they had no talent and that is the reason for their mediocre  play. Well answer  me this.  If the Colts draft them are they not  coming  to a to a team  with  medicore  talent as evident by their drafting 4th overall? So if they didn't lift their college team above  mediocrity  how are they going to lift the Colts?  I think that is a fair question.

Why do we need the QB to always do the heavy lifting early on? Till the QB becomes a better QB maybe in Year 2 or 3, Ballard needs to get enough talent to support the QB. Burrow didn’t magically lift the Bengals, they signed pass rush in FA in the 2020 off season, loaded up on OL in 2021 off season, and had to fight more even with Burrow till they added Chase to go with Higgins. Mahomes couldn’t have won this latest SB without major weapons early on, when he had Hill and Kelce, he evolved as a better QB in Years 4 and 5. So team talent is a must to help out QB. Allen made his turnaround with Diggs, Hurts when A J Brown showed up.

[Dobbinblitz]

After the results of the last couple of years at QB position Ballard is sure to know he cannot miss on this pick  If the Colts stay at 4 and select a QB, both Ballard and Steichen would have had to have done their due diligence on both Richardson/Levis.

 

If Ballard is going to truly "Move Heaven and Earth" for a QB, I would like to see the Colts build a war chest and secure Caleb Williams next year.  I watched him up close at the Cotton Bowl against my Son's team and he was virtually unstoppable - Williams has all the traits and will be a bonafide franchise QB in the NFL. Let Minshew play for a year.

[chad72]

1 minute ago, Dobbinblitz said:

After the results of the last couple of years at QB position Ballard is sure to know he cannot miss on this pick  If the Colts stay at 4 and select a QB, both Ballard and Steichen would have had to have done their due diligence on both Richardson/Levis.

 

If Ballard is going to truly "Move Heaven and Earth" for a QB, I would like to see the Colts build a war chest and secure Caleb Williams next year.  I watched him up close at the Cotton Bowl against my Son's team and he was virtually unstoppable - Williams has all the traits and will be a bonafide franchise QB in the NFL. Let Minshew play for a year.

Every Heisman QB playing against college competition is the next great thing since sliced bread till the playing field is leveled at the NFL level. 
 

No guarantee we’re picking in Top 5 next year plus no guarantee that the team having the top pick will give up Caleb Williams. Browns offered their whole draft for Andrew Luck and we refused.

[CR91]

19 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Better than spending a top 4 pick on  this  group. Get Hooker and put him in  there.  If he is a disaster u r probably picking in the top 3 next year. Then u go get that sure thing lol. 

 

Why do you hate this group? Levis and Richardson fine are project. Not arguing that, but Young and Stroud are as legit QB prospects as I've seen in years.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The funny thing for me is when people say Levis didn’t lift up his team. That was a bad Kentucky team and they won 7 games. They got shut out without him in their bowl. He did lift up his team.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Why do you hate this group? Levi and Richardson fine are project. Not arguing that, but Young and Stroud are as legit QB prospects as I've seen in years.

Levis is not a project any more then stroud or young. Young actually had to throw into tight windows which probably gives him a better chance then  stroud who had wide open receivers. Levis also had to throw into tight windows a ton.

[CR91]

3 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Levis is not a project any more then stroud or young. Young actually had to throw into tight windows which probably gives him a better chance then  stroud who had wide open receivers. Levis also had to throw into tight windows a ton.

 

Levis isn't even in the same conversation as Young and Stroud. If he was, he'd be in the discussion for the first pick like the other three are. Clearly teams don't like what their seeing in Levis

 

 

[csmopar]

7 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Why do you hate this group? Levis and Richardson fine are project. Not arguing that, but Young and Stroud are as legit QB prospects as I've seen in years.

This group sucks. Most over hyped group since 2013.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

Levis isn't even in the same conversation as Young and Stroud. If he was, he'd be in the discussion for the first pick like the other three are. Clearly teams don't like what their seeing in Levis

 

 

Yeah that argument holds no water. 32 teams all passed on Tom Brady for 5 rounds… Purdy was passed on by 32 teams for almost 7, the most missed on position in the league is QB. 

[CR91]

5 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Yeah that argument holds no water. 32 teams all passed on Tom Brady for 5 rounds… Purdy was passed on by 32 teams for almost 7, the most missed on position in the league is QB. 

 

Oh my god stop it. Purdy was asked to drive a lambo and not crash it

7 minutes ago, csmopar said:

This group sucks. Most over hyped group since 2013.

 

You think Young and Stroud are overhyped? Is that a joke?

[Dobbinblitz]

13 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Every Heisman QB playing against college competition is the next great thing since sliced bread till the playing field is leveled at the NFL level. 
 

No guarantee we’re picking in Top 5 next year plus no guarantee that the team having the top pick will give up Caleb Williams. Browns offered their whole draft for Andrew Luck and we refused.

Yep, absolutely no guarantees. There is also no guarantee that whoever the Colts may select at 3/4 will be the long term answer either.
The fact that we have not traded up to this point may point to various question marks this group has. It has even been reported that Carolina may be open to listening to offers for the #1 pick. If Williams was draft eligible this year I believe he would be hands down the consensus #1 pick. It has nothing to do with the Heisman Trophy.

[cdgacoltsfan]

Ballard always tries to out smart everyone and and get more " value" by drafting injured players. ( Blackmon, Dayo) Don't be shocked if he trades #4 back for more picks and drafts Hooker early second round or moves up late first to get him. It would be so typical.

[colts89]

Stroud or Young and it's really not close. The more tape I watch on them, the more they separate themselves as elite QBs. I'd be content with either of them if we can get them.

 

But, at the end of the day, only these front offices get the amount of detail about how these players work mentally and how much they understand the game. That's the most important part of the QB position and I feel that Steichan can sniff out if a player has that quality. It's what separate's the elite QBs with the rest of the pack. I just want Ballard to make sure if he thinks any of the QBs is the best prospect of the bunch, that he goes get him. If he gets this wrong, he knows he's fired so he better do everything in his power to get it right.

[colts89]

15 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Ballard always tries to out smart everyone and and get more " value" by drafting injured players. ( Blackmon, Dayo) Don't be shocked if he trades #4 back for more picks and drafts Hooker early second round or moves up late first to get him. It would be so typical.

If he does this due to believing in Hooker, then at the very least he is willing to die by his own sword. Most people will not expect that to work out, but we'll have to see.

[chad72]

35 minutes ago, Dobbinblitz said:

Yep, absolutely no guarantees. There is also no guarantee that whoever the Colts may select at 3/4 will be the long term answer either.
The fact that we have not traded up to this point may point to various question marks this group has. It has even been reported that Carolina may be open to listening to offers for the #1 pick. If Williams was draft eligible this year I believe he would be hands down the consensus #1 pick. It has nothing to do with the Heisman Trophy.

The odds of them working around a QB in this bunch is greater than the odds of them being close enough to move up AND piling up enough ammunition to move up AND another team willing to give up Caleb Williams for their ammunition. 
 

Bears, sitting in 2017, were saying the same thing - oh Trubisky has a great floor, let’s go with him, heck with Watson (just talent) or Mahomes. Then Bill O’ Brien, a decent offensive coach, gets plenty out of Watson and Andy Reid, a great offensive coach gets more out of Mahomes.

 

We have to believe in the abilities of Steichen to get the most out of any QB we draft at No.3 or 4. That’s the hope and faith we have to approach it with.

[NewColtsFan]

25 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Ballard always tries to out smart everyone and and get more " value" by drafting injured players. ( Blackmon, Dayo) Don't be shocked if he trades #4 back for more picks and drafts Hooker early second round or moves up late first to get him. It would be so typical.

If Ballard does this it will be because Steichen believes in Hooker and that’s what HE wants.   

[PRnum1]

How is hooker any better than Stetson Bennett?

[jbaron04]

If it comes down to Levis draft Anderson 

[Dobbinblitz]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

The odds of them working around a QB in this bunch is greater than the odds of them piling up enough ammunition to move up AND another team willing to give up Caleb Williams for their ammunition. 
 

Bears, sitting in 2017, were saying the same thing - oh Trubisky has a great floor, let’s go with him, heck with Watson (just talent) or Mahomes. Then Bill O’ Brien, a decent offensive coach, gets plenty out of Watson and Andy Reid, a great offensive coach gets more out of Mahomes.

 

We have to believe in the abilities of Steichen to get the most out of any QB we draft at No.3 or 4. That’s the hope and faith we have to approach it with.

Yes, that cannot be discounted and I hope you are right. An argument can also be made also that if you draft a QB that needs considerable development and does not see the field for 2/3 years - waiting a year to go all in for a QB that could be under center within a year may be worth it . I mean the Panthers just moved from the 9th position. But yeah, there is no guarantees everything would fall into place.

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

How is hooker any better than Stetson Bennett?

Assuming everything else as equal….  How about size.

 

Hooker is 5 inches taller and about 30 pounds heavier.   That’s a huge difference.  
 

Edit Add:   Hooker has a ceiling of a probable starter.   Bennett’s ceiling is seen as a career backup. 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Oh my god stop it. Purdy was asked to drive a lambo and not crash it

 

You think Young and Stroud are overhyped? Is that a joke?

Dead serious. I think this entire class is over hyped.
 

that said, I think we have to take a QB shot here. The thing is, I don’t want to trade up at all to do it, just take whoever is there at 4 and roll. 

[Two_pound]

Another thing to consider is Steichen just went to the sb with Jalen Hurts at qb(someone who was NOT highly regarded coming into his draft), maybe Steichen thinks he can be successful with anyone of the top 5 guys. Maybe he's a head coach who has enormous confidence in his abilities to develop and direct players. Who knows, we may be trading out of the 4 spot and taking Hooker mid to late 1st round. Six more weeks of discussion before we find out! Go Colts!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Levis isn't even in the same conversation as Young and Stroud. If he was, he'd be in the discussion for the first pick like the other three are. Clearly teams don't like what their seeing in Levis

 

 

You don’t know that until they play/ just like no one knew how good mahomes and Allen were going to be.

[CR91]

38 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Dead serious. I think this entire class is over hyped.
 

that said, I think we have to take a QB shot here. The thing is, I don’t want to trade up at all to do it, just take whoever is there at 4 and roll. 

 

In what way are Young and Stroud overhyped? Imo, their franchise-altering QBs. I'm scared at the idea that we'll have to play one every year for the next 10+ years

[CR91]

13 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

You don’t know that until they play/ just like no one knew how good mahomes and Allen were going to be.

 

That's not the norm and it took years to get the Josh Allen we see now.