Would you rather stay put for Levis and/or Richardson at 4, or trade up for Stroud/Young at 3

[ChuggaBeer]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

It’s sports. That’s what fans do. To keep antagonizing people and laughing at that for wanting a QB isn’t funny. This message board would not exist if people didn’t come on to talk about  their favorite team and give opinions.

It's not really a discussion with you   You tell people your opinion and if someone has a different opinion you don't discuss it with them to find out why they think that way,  you tell them they are wrong and can't ever see the other side of any thought or idea.    And just throw a fit if it doesn't work out the way you want.  

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

25 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

It's not really a discussion with you   You tell people your opinion and if someone has a different opinion you don't discuss it with them to find out why they think that way,  you tell them they are wrong and can't ever see the other side of any thought or idea.    And just throw a fit if it doesn't work out the way you want.  

 

 

Sure just change the subject. You don’t even engage you just laugh at people who might get mad if they don’t take a QB. I can tell you several times posters on here have changed my mind because they have a good argument.

[Stoney]

On 3/19/2023 at 3:24 PM, CR91 said:

I will never understand why anyone would want a 25 year old QB coming off an ACL tear

Might as well say 26 because that's what he'll be when the season starts. I don't get it either

[ChuggaBeer]

10 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Sure just change the subject. You don’t even engage you just laugh at people who might get mad if they don’t take a QB. I can tell you several times posters on here have changed my mind because they have a good argument.

I didn't change the subject. I replied to your statement    And yes I am going to laugh at over the top people. It's not just you.  There are others.    And I get laughed at too when I say crazy stuff 

 

I'm on here to discuss Colts stuff but also to be entertained.   And if that means I have to hope for a surprise or two just to see a melt down that's what I'm gonna do.

 

Life is too short to take this as serious as you do.  But that's your choice.   There are way to many things in life that are more important than who the Colts take at #4

[ChuggaBeer]

1 minute ago, Stoney said:

Might as well say 26 because that's what he'll be when the season starts. I don't get it either

He just turned 25 in January 

[Boondoggle]

3 hours ago, ChuggaBeer said:

There are way to many things in life that are more important than who the Colts take at #4

Stop talkin crazy.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Stoney said:

Might as well say 26 because that's what he'll be when the season starts. I don't get it either

I think your math is a little off.   You might want to double check that. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 hours ago, ChuggaBeer said:

I didn't change the subject. I replied to your statement    And yes I am going to laugh at over the top people. It's not just you.  There are others.    And I get laughed at too when I say crazy stuff 

 

I'm on here to discuss Colts stuff but also to be entertained.   And if that means I have to hope for a surprise or two just to see a melt down that's what I'm gonna do.

 

Life is too short to take this as serious as you do.  But that's your choice.   There are way to many things in life that are more important than who the Colts take at #4

We don’t come here to talk about other things in life. We come here to talk colts. Just because we come here to talk colts doesn’t mean it consumes our life.

[philba101]

21 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

You left out the part where he says everyone thinks we have to be at 1 to get the QB and how he might be able to get one at 4.

I didn't feel that part was as relevant now that the Panthers have jumped everyone to move to #1. I can't imagine a scenario where the Colts would end up at #1 at this point.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Let me ask a fair question, since when is 26 years old for a QB? QB's now days if they are good to great play at a high level until they are 35 at worse. That would be a decade of good to great QB play. Some have even played great past 35 as in Favre, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, and of course Tom. Elway was even great at 38 and that was back in the 90's. 26 years old is a baby.

[BlackTiger]

No way to know if we can get Stroud or Young at 3.  If they are there on draft day then sure

[throwing BBZ]

The bidding for 3 would be bonkers if Stroud were available at 3.

[sb41champs]

We're drafting a rookie QB at #4!!

 

Chris Ballard and Shane Steichen are smart enough and savvy enough to understand the draft and which QB's should be available.

 

While they'll do their homework and rank the QB's on their draft board - they understand that they need to stay focused on who will LIKELY be available at their pick.

 

Why throw draft picks away to pick up one spot - when it is likely that a defensive player will be picked at #3 - barring a trade?

 

We are in a mini-rebuild - looking to maximize the skill set of the QB we select - not the other way around.

 

In Ballard and Steichen I trust!!

[Boondoggle]

On 3/19/2023 at 8:32 PM, csmopar said:

Many ways. But mainly, I get a sick feeling watching film on them. I don’t know if i can say it’s one thing more than another, it’s a combination of decision making, being in none pro level systems and just their tape. I’m not expert. But I’m just not impressed. I feel like I’m watching Johnny Manziel film when I watch young, Stroud reminds me of Sam Darnold and Levi’s reminds me of Wentz 2.0. 

Yeah it's projecting.  Because all these guys have problems if you watch their actual games.  The problem with today's media is too many of them watching highlight vids only and then parroting off each other's takes.  It's safe to be in that collective groupthink but you're not offering anyone particularly good insight in doing that.

 

Young basically has elite guys all around him.  Well, ok I will admit that was less true than with Tua, but still he generally had good protections and that allowed him to build a lot of confidence in his play game to game.  What happens when the first NFL defense he plays hits him in the mouth figuratively speaking and he's spitting out chicklets.  Usually what happens is a rookie season unfolds.  I think the guy is very mature, for the record.  That may be his saving grace.  But when you talk high draft picks you gotta stop and say wait a minute what are we doing here, if you realize you're talking about a guy that short being a top pick.

 

The best scouts are doing evaluation and projections based on everything being considered.  That really has not been done very much with this QB group and that is always the case with the guys up high because media.  But on the good side of all this...  Mahomes had some issues when he came out, but like with Rodgers he was allowed to ease into the game and it did him a world of good to get his chance after he had been ripping up the starting defense from the practice team.  So yeah it definitely is an inexact science and so much of it comes down to who is going to be a pro and work hard to be great.

 

By the way speaking of the guys you mentioned...  Wentz is too thin skinned to survive critiques and coaching.  Manziel simply wasn't willing to do the work, and it's a lot.  Darnold actually got serious it seemed this past season, so SF taking a flier on him was probably pretty smart.  But even with him who knows and he's been in the league with film vs pro defenses.

 

This is why QBs go before other positions in the draft all things being even remotely even.  They're that hard to find the good ones who have the talent, resilience, and dedication to get to where the top vets are right now.

[DougDew]

I'd trade up to 3 to secure Levis.   I would not draft Young or Richardson at all.

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'd trade up to 3 to secure Levis.   I would not draft Young or Richardson at all.

Interesting. Not in a bad way mind you. 

 

I've had a feeling about Levis all year that he could be the target. And this could have been already in the making back in the '21 season. 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, RollerColt said:

Interesting. Not in a bad way mind you. 

 

I've had a feeling about Levis all year that he could be the target. And this could have been already in the making back in the '21 season. 

Agreed.  Ballard seems to be ignoring the hype, partly, because his QB is being excluded from the hype.

 

I say if Levis is still available after HOU picks, trade up and secure him because I'll bet there are other teams ignoring the hype on Richardson and will want to sneak ahead of Ballard to take Levis.  I think Ballard is smart enough to know this.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 3/20/2023 at 9:37 PM, ChuggaBeer said:

He just turned 25 in January 

https://firstroundmock.com/2023/03/10-games-prove-will-levis-is-a-bust/

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agreed.  Ballard seems to be ignoring the hype, partly, because his QB is being excluded from the hype.

 

I say if Levis is still available after HOU picks, trade up and secure him because I'll bet there are other teams ignoring the hype on Richardson and will want to sneak ahead of Ballard to take Levis.  I think Ballard is smart enough to know this.

https://firstroundmock.com/2023/03/10-games-prove-will-levis-is-a-bust/

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I'd trade up to 3 to secure Levis.   I would not draft Young or Richardson at all.

I believe this. I think Caroina jumped up to number 1 for this reason. They believe there is one franchise qb in this class, and the rest r rubbish. I truly believe that.

[Nevbot]

58 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Interesting. Not in a bad way mind you. 

 

I've had a feeling about Levis all year that he could be the target. And this could have been already in the making back in the '21 season. 

 

This just posted in another thread. Levis before his pro day which is happening right now. Do you want a guy who gets frazzled and doesn't show up to the most important night of his life because of the risk of "sliding to the second round"?!  A guy that is confident in his abilities and in the evaluation of his skills would NOT say that in a completely genuine way, since there is not scenario where he would think he slides out of the top 5. 
I always liked Levis, and have always thought there was a good chance that he would be the pick. That was before I did MY research and let the daft experts go to town.  After the combine I was worried, and it seems to be getting worse.  I am starting to have a LOT more concerns about his character the further down the evaluation wormhole we get.  He reminds me of a combination of Wentz and Zach Wilson, and not in any of the good ways.  

Like the Guru John Hansen said on his Sirius XM show this week, Levis has some of the worst body language of any QB coming out that he has ever seen, period. He is cocky at the wrong times instead of meticulously confident like Young. He seemed almost bored and disengaged when answering questions at the combine, and his answers seemed heavily scripted. Hanson ripped Levis for not going to the Senior Bowl (which we KNOW Ballard values heavily in his evaluation).  He criticized Levis for having a tight and mechanical throwing motion, his accuracy on a throw to throw basis, how he misses the layups and is FAR from a rhythm passer who quite frankly is not very comfortable in his drops.  He then went on to compare him to a slower Kaepernick, but I think mainly referring to Levis' throwing motion. 

Bottom line is- we need to be VERY careful if we are considering Levis at 4.  He could be the QB that does slide to the teens if we don't take him. Maybe that is Ballard's plan all along- trade down because you inherently believe that Levis and AR could be there 8-10.  At that time, maybe you make the move since its less of a gamble and you have acquired some premium capital. 

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

https://firstroundmock.com/2023/03/10-games-prove-will-levis-is-a-bust/

https://firstroundmock.com/2023/03/10-games-prove-will-levis-is-a-bust/

I think Daniel Jeremiah's latest Mock has Levis falling to 17 and being taken by Tampa, with Richardson going 4 to the Colts.  

 

I doubt that Ballard has sent any insider signals that this is his thinking.  Its just the media doing that slow raising of some QBs and the dropping of others as they usually do.  Like Malik Willis last year, LOL.   It must get more viewership to do that at ESPN daytime television and radio since there is really no news going on until the draft.

 

Pretty soon, they guys at ESPN will have Hendon Hooker nearly tied with Levis.  "Some scouts have Levis behind Hooker".  LOL.

 

Meanwhile, Ballard is probably targeting Levis at 3 or 4 and has been since he earned the pick.

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, DougDew said:

I think Daniel Jeremiah's latest Mock has Levis falling to 17 and being taken by Tampa, with Richardson going 4 to the Colts.  

 

I doubt that Ballard has sent any insider signals that this is his thinking.  Its just the media doing that slow raising of some QBs and the dropping of others as they usually do.  Like Malik Willis last year, LOL.   It must get more viewership to do that at ESPN daytime television and radio since there is really no news going on until the draft.

 

Pretty soon, they guys at ESPN will have Hendon Hooker nearly tied with Levis.  "Some scouts have Levis behind Hooker".  LOL.

 

Meanwhile, Ballard is probably targeting Levis at 3 or 4 and has been since he earned the pick.

Levi just rubs me the wrong way. I see a lot of hero ball with  him ala Wentz 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think Daniel Jeremiah's latest Mock has Levis falling to 17 and being taken by Tampa, with Richardson going 4 to the Colts.  

 

I doubt that Ballard has sent any insider signals that this is his thinking.  Its just the media doing that slow raising of some QBs and the dropping of others as they usually do.  Like Malik Willis last year, LOL.   It must get more viewership to do that at ESPN daytime television and radio since there is really no news going on until the draft.

 

Pretty soon, they guys at ESPN will have Hendon Hooker nearly tied with Levis.  "Some scouts have Levis behind Hooker".  LOL.

 

Meanwhile, Ballard is probably targeting Levis at 3 or 4 and has been since he earned the pick.

Do u think we could be shocked on draft day and say Carolina gets their guy and Houston and Colts take BPA and that isn't a qb?

[ChuggaBeer]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Levi just rubs me the wrong way. I see a lot of hero ball with  him ala Wentz 

I believe if we hadn't already had Wentz on the team this would be a non issue for Colts fans.  But just the comparison right or wrong scares a lot of people. 

 

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Do u think we could be shocked on draft day and say Carolina gets their guy and Houston and Colts take BPA and that isn't a qb?

Some will be, but a good portion of us won't be if that happens. I've said it a few times but man if we somehow got Maye or Williams for '24? I'd be pretty darn happy with that. 

[RollerColt]

10 minutes ago, Nevbot said:

 

This just posted in another thread. Levis before his pro day which is happening right now. Do you want a guy who gets frazzled and doesn't show up to the most important night of his life because of the risk of "sliding to the second round"?!  A guy that is confident in his abilities and in the evaluation of his skills would NOT say that in a completely genuine way, since there is not scenario where he would think he slides out of the top 5. 
I always liked Levis, and have always thought there was a good chance that he would be the pick. That was before I did MY research and let the daft experts go to town.  After the combine I was worried, and it seems to be getting worse.  I am starting to have a LOT more concerns about his character the further down the evaluation wormhole we get.  He reminds me of a combination of Wentz and Zach Wilson, and not in any of the good ways.  

Like the Guru John Hansen said on his Sirius XM show this week, Levis has some of the worst body language of any QB coming out that he has ever seen, period. He is cocky at the wrong times instead of meticulously confident like Young. He seemed almost bored and disengaged when answering questions at the combine, and his answers seemed heavily scripted. Hanson ripped Levis for not going to the Senior Bowl (which we KNOW Ballard values heavily in his evaluation).  He criticized Levis for having a tight and mechanical throwing motion, his accuracy on a throw to throw basis, how he misses the layups and is FAR from a rhythm passer who quite frankly is not very comfortable in his drops.  He then went on to compare him to a slower Kaepernick, but I think mainly referring to Levis' throwing motion. 

Bottom line is- we need to be VERY careful if we are considering Levis at 4.  He could be the QB that does slide to the teens if we don't take him. Maybe that is Ballard's plan all along- trade down because you inherently believe that Levis and AR could be there 8-10.  At that time, maybe you make the move since its less of a gamble and you have acquired some premium capital. 

No problem with having that feeling about him. And history is on your side to be apprehensive because let's face it even in the 1st round, only 50% of the picks end up being successful. 

 

We'll just have to see what happens. 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Do u think we could be shocked on draft day and say Carolina gets their guy and Houston and Colts take BPA and that isn't a qb?

No.  I don't think Ballard can survive the idea of not finding a QB in this draft...when he is sitting there in the rare times a team has a pick to get a QB.

 

He might make the wrong choice, but I think he pretty much has to select a QB, and I think he'll go semi-safe with Levis.  Young's size is just too big of a risk to overcome and Richardson has more Jamarcus Russell potential than Levis, IMO. 

 

Levis is the second safest QB pick after Stroud, IMO.

 

We just signed an EDGE to play significant time at RDE (salary and term suggest that).  Pick 4 for Anderson (or anybody that high) means an every down player.   So Ballard's signing of that edge probably means he's all-out on Anderson but might take another rotational EDGE later.

[Boondoggle]

3 hours ago, Nevbot said:

This just posted in another thread. Levis before his pro day which is happening right now. Do you want a guy who gets frazzled and doesn't show up to the most important night of his life because of the risk of "sliding to the second round"?!  A guy that is confident in his abilities and in the evaluation of his skills would NOT say that in a completely genuine way, since there is not scenario where he would think he slides out of the top 5. 

The way the players work and approach the game is something we don't get to see.  NFL teams know a lot more than us.  They probably have pages of testimonies from people in and around the team in Kentucky that paint a picture of who he is.  This is part of the reason why fans get crazy about draft picks, because we don't see all that other stuff that affects where these guys get placed on draft boards.

 

That said Marino dropped famously due to his partyboy tendencies.  Rodgers was always a weird dude and teams were put off by him too.  Both ended up being exactly what you'd expect them to be, though, if you simply watched the film of their games in college.  So clearly that stuff can be overplayed.  It is possible to overprocess things to the point where you kill your own vision of what is important.

 

Re: Levis this will be interesting.  From just the film and the things that occurred to cause his struggles last season (Loss of OL elements and his OC) I see him as the best bet in this QB class.  But if he slides out of the top 5 then clearly it will be due to things like you allude to.  I'll just caution all that by saying in the end it's about having the talent and skills and desire and he seems to have those things.  So it would suck to see the Colts pass on him due to some group perception of his identity only to watch him kill it in another team's colors.

[Solid84]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Agreed.  Ballard seems to be ignoring the hype, partly, because his QB is being excluded from the hype.

 

I say if Levis is still available after HOU picks, trade up and secure him because I'll bet there are other teams ignoring the hype on Richardson and will want to sneak ahead of Ballard to take Levis.  I think Ballard is smart enough to know this.

I actually think the Colts are in a good spot at 4 to grab Levis. The Cardinals won’t want to miss out on Anderson and trading back further than 4 jeopardizes that. 

[Boondoggle]

I still think Levis goes 1 overall.  Though I am not as certain of that now.  Teams seem all over the map right now to include being wowed by Richardson's workout still.  Which to be perfectly honest amazes me.  I don't get it.  But we'll see here soon because once those top boards get set we'll have leaks and the media types will start with their "risers and fallers" nonsense as they find out their boards are wrong.

[Moosejawcolt]

6 hours ago, DougDew said:

I'd trade up to 3 to secure Levis.   I would not draft Young or Richardson at all.

 Go to NFL.com and Derek Carr breaks down his proday. He does come across as being in command of things. He crushes those 15 yard passes. He has a howlitzer

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Boondoggle said:

I still think Levis goes 1 overall. 

It would not surprise me at all.

 

What makes me less certain is CAR trade up, which I think would be for Stroud.  I see the very accurate pocket passer as a better fit for Frank, who might see too much Wentz or Eason in Levis.

[AKB]

Yeah, I'd like Richardson or Levis at this point.

 

give me either, and im happy. 

 

but honestly, this is a decent year to be top 4 and need a QB, because arguable there are 4-5 guys that are seen as at least capable. 

 

Stroud

Young

Levis

Richardson

Hooker

 

 

-- big gap

 

Bennett, Dugan

 

I'd really be happier than most of the previous 5 years we've tried to slot some other guy in. 

 

Minshew and a Rookie? Yeah, I'll take it. 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

It would not surprise me at all.

 

What makes me less certain is CAR trade up, which I think would be for Stroud.  I see the very accurate pocket passer as a better fit for Frank, who might see too much Wentz or Eason in Levis.

 What i do love about Levi is his movement in the pocket. He has Mahonnes like abilities in throwing on the run and his speed in the pocket is tremendous

[PRnum1]

Ballard already told you what he's going to do.

 

He telegraphs every season who he's going to draft but fans don't want to listen.

 

He said "at 4 we're going to get the best player in the draft"

 

Jalen Carter is the best player in the draft bar none. All charges have been settled and he has paid his debt to society. 

 

Ballard will take Carter at 4 and try to get hooker in the second. This will allow Ballard to trade Buckner.

 

If he misses on Hooker, Stetson Bennett will be a Colt.

 

So it is written and so it shall come to pass....

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

It would not surprise me at all.

 

What makes me less certain is CAR trade up, which I think would be for Stroud.  I see the very accurate pocket passer as a better fit for Frank, who might see too much Wentz or Eason in Levis.

Here is what i think about Levi. If he is the guy, I think he has been for months now. The Colts have more than enough intel on him because i believe, if i read correctly,  that they have ex Colts coaching staff with Kentucky.  I believe Stroud is gone by 1 or 2. Young is just to small to be  Ballard guy and I don't think Steichen would like him much as he calls for his qbs to run if he brings that Philly offence with him. To me it is probably between Richardson and Levi. Richardson has all world talent and Levi is not far behind. To me the question for the Colts is which one of these guys can put it together. If I had to bet , i would put it on Levi. Levi actually sat down with Peyton. I have gone on record as saying Levi came across as arrogant but his teammates love him so that is enough for me. The 2 comments   Richardson made  about his receivers killed it for me about his accuracy and slightly throwing his players under the bus. I heard one GM say that it is the kiss of death when a player makes excuses for his deficiencies  especially a qb. Levi does seem to have a presence. 

[AKB]

3 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Ballard already told you what he's going to do.

 

He telegraphs every season who he's going to draft but fans don't want to listen.

 

He said "at 4 we're going to get the best player in the draft"

 

Jalen Carter is the best player in the draft bar none. All charges have been settled and he has paid his debt to society. 

 

Ballard will take Carter at 4 and try to get hooker in the second. This will allow Ballard to trade Buckner.

 

If he misses on Hooker, Stetson Bennett will be a Colt.

 

So it is written and so it shall come to pass....

interesting. makes sense. I could see something like this happening. 

 

also is it possible one of these 4 "main guys" falls a little? IDK

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Ballard already told you what he's going to do.

 

He telegraphs every season who he's going to draft but fans don't want to listen.

 

He said "at 4 we're going to get the best player in the draft"

 

Jalen Carter is the best player in the draft bar none. All charges have been settled and he has paid his debt to society. 

 

Ballard will take Carter at 4 and try to get hooker in the second. This will allow Ballard to trade Buckner.

 

If he misses on Hooker, Stetson Bennett will be a Colt.

 

So it is written and so it shall come to pass....

With Ballard’s super premium he puts on character you think he’s going to take Carter?    I don’t see it.  
 

I don’t doubt that Carter is a great player.  But he’s the type of kid that NFL execs FEAR because he’s going to get a signing bonus of roughly $15-20 mill and he’s going to be out on his own for the first time in his life and those players are the ones execs lose sleep over.  
 

I think it would be an un-Ballard-like move. 
 

 

[Stephen]

On 3/20/2023 at 11:35 PM, Stoney said:

Might as well say 26 because that's what he'll be when the season starts. I don't get it either

he will be 25 during the season his birthday is in jan  13th so wont turn 26 til then

[krunk]

If the Texans take Levis instead of Young I feel like Ballard should make the exception and take Young. I have few doubts he can do it on this level. And like Saban said, the same guys you play in the SEC are the same guys you have to play in the NFL. I think Bryce will be able to do it