Has anyone considered Lamar Jackson? (merge)

[Smonroe]

4 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Imagine if the 49ers traded for Lamar. My god just give them the Lombardi 

 

Then they'd have four QBs on IR by the playoffs.

 

Why do people think we'd get a guy that he was three years ago?  Wentz, Ryan... haven't we learned?

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Is that accurate?     Wow. if so.  

Yes, according to the NFL site that records such things.  If someone wants to question that, be my guess.

[richard pallo]

3 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

And running QBs just don't last in the NFL.  Plus, they don't usually get faster (or less injured) as they get older.

 

I hope Irsay isn't seriously thinking about sacrificing the future for him.

The vast majority of Colts fans want him.  Stampede Blue did a poll and 70% want to bring him in.  Irsay is seeing the excitement.  Hard to see him not proposing a trade.

[CR91]

6 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Then they'd have four QBs on IR by the playoffs.

 

Why do people think we'd get a guy that he was three years ago?  Wentz, Ryan... haven't we learned?

 

But come on that would be the most overpacked offense I can remember. 

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

And running QBs just don't last in the NFL.  Plus, they don't usually get faster (or less injured) as they get older.

 

I hope Irsay isn't seriously thinking about sacrificing the future for him.

People are getting this idea that because Steichen had success with Hurts for on year, now Ballard and Irsay want to have the Philly offense.  LOL.

 

Which BTW, would start by totally revamping the oline, WRs, and especially dumping JT for two more versatile/shifty RBs before plugging in the QB later.  And Hurts success as a runner comes from power...not quicks/speed so much.  Power is one thing Lamar does not have....so he isn't even the same kind of QB that Hurts is.

 

Starting the new Philly offense with a veteran Lamar Jackson makes no sense at all.

[Indyfan4life]

1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

 

Then they'd have four QBs on IR by the playoffs.

 

Why do people think we'd get a guy that he was three years ago?  Wentz, Ryan... haven't we learned?

Because the difference in Jackson/Ryan/Wentz isn’t even a question. I’m not saying that I want Jackson, but if I had the choice between those three? It isn’t not a difficult one to make. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Sacrificing the future for a guy that’s been injured and only won one playoff game would be right up there with the dumbest moves of all time. If your going to do that move  to one and have the pick of any QB.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Indeee said:

I'm not so sure the bolded just wasn't conjecture without results as Frank was a QB once. Steichen actually has had proven factual success with Rivers, Herbert, and Hurts. Frank had not. The one year with Wentz seemed to be a fluke

All Frank had success with was Luck in 18, Brissett in 19,  Rivers in 20,  Wentz in 21.  
 

But, by all means,  tell me to think about things first before I use a confusion emoji.

 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Lamar hasnt had many 300 yard passing games in his career and his playoff record leaves alot to be desired. Ravens didnt do him no favors wr wise and our current wrs would be the best he has had. Plus he could turn our tes into super stars. Also he shouldnt have to run as often with better wrswhich should keep him healthy, but how coach we fit that huge contract without gutting the team

 

Peyton had 7 one-and-dones with the Colts, was 3-6 with 4 one-and-dones before his first run en route to his first SB in 9 years to make it 7-6 after the 2006 season. Plus Peyton had all that first round talent in Harrison, Wayne and Clark included in that record.

 

Lamar's 1-3 record doesn't scare me as it is typically a team record. Give Lamar some weapons and watch him go. If we go that route, I am truly not worried. It is the monetary aspect and the guarantees in light of his recent injuries that the Colts and most of us fans worry about. We will have 2 guys, JT and Lamar, once you get one of them to the second level, will be nightmares for Ds to handle and Lamar has shown recently that he can beat 1-on-1s well. In the past we could play only 1 style of game with Frank - get a 2 TD lead and control tempo to win games, at best. Rarely did we win shootouts or comebacks, not since the days of Luck and Peyton. We did win the occasional ones with Rivers but a small sample space.

 

Lamar will allow us to get back to playing different styles. When you have taller pass catchers like we do, Lamar can definitely hit them within their catch radius.

 

Some of the forum posters' lame excuses for not wanting Lamar falls mighty flat on so many fronts. The money is the ONLY issue, I have no doubts about his abilities.

[Indeee]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Really?   You think I don’t think about things?    Congratulations.   You might be the first poster to make that claim against me in nearly 11 years here.   
 

And to use your words…..   you might want to think about things before you simply write a small paragraph about how easy it would be to fix the Colts quarterback situation.   This is the National Football League.    Rarely is anything easy.   That’s a fans point of view.  

Yo, it's an idea/point of view. NEWSFLASH!! Coming from a fan.

 

I could give zero effs if you agree with it or if it's viewed as easy. You have a habit to throw emojis and act like you have inside knowledge of what this organization is going to do when you have zero 1st hand knowledge, yet it comes off as it's money in the bank.

 

Rarely that easy? Last I looked, you were just some "device or implement, especially one held in the hand, used to carry out a particular function" in a cesspool state typing on a fan forum. We should all be so lucky that we have someone with so much knowledge and incite because it's rarely that easy finding someone as informed as you to enlighten us common fans.  By accepting and acknowledging the confusion emoji clearly means I have fallen into "the fan point of view". My bad daddy, I'll be better next time

 

Telling us about small markets and the monies not there. Even if it falls into a pattern of certain history doesn't mean its solid. Anything is possible or we would have no need for the "where there's a will there's a way" catch phrase. You have zero idea of what you are talking about past your own speculation yet is always there to criticize the rest with your stupid little confusion. 

 

Here's what you should be puzzled by; the amount of time I will be put into timeout once I'm tattled on for being a bully. 

 

I'm guessing, NONE

 

Stop throwing emojis at glass houses my friend, sometimes that glass is going to shatter and cut you...

 

Carry on...

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

The vast majority of Colts fans want him.  Stampede Blue did a poll and 70% want to bring him in.  Irsay is seeing the excitement.  Hard to see him not proposing a trade.

You think Irsay is going to make a $250m decision based on a fan poll on Stampede Blue?    Seriously? 
 

On that website that likely means 70 out of 100.   That doesn’t even move the needle a bit.     

 

[Indeee]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

All Frank had success with was Luck in 18, Brissett in 19,  Rivers in 20,  Wentz in 21.  
 

But, by all means,  tell me to think about things first before I use a confusion emoji.

 

You think Brissett was a success? 

 

The Rivers era here the entire team played over their head

 

Go take a nap

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

The vast majority of Colts fans want him.  Stampede Blue did a poll and 70% want to bring him in.  Irsay is seeing the excitement.  Hard to see him not proposing a trade.

I've been a Colts fan for 25 years and I don't even know what Stampede Blue is.   A lot of Colts fans never answered the poll.

[Fluke_33]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

There are QBs who are products of the system and those who transcend systems.  Very few QBs can take their talents and hit the road with another team and have the same success.  For the Peyton Mannings and Tom Brady's of the world, there are the Matt Cassells etc. 

 

We don't even know if Russell Wilson can be a good QB without Pete Carroll.  Did Favre elevate the Jets?  Maybe Rodgers will have some ability to do that....probably not.

 

And people all over football are thinking that these guys can just go from team to team and the same things will happen with their new team as with their old...just plug 'em in and the same things happen, just wearing different colors. 

 

It rarely works that way.

 

As far as Steichen, I'm reading little things on here like the guy is some sort of QB guru...you know...like Frank.  He hasn't even coached his first professional game yet, and was an OC for just a short time.  We'll see what happens.

 

You can't make a point with a sentence that includes manning, brady, and by comparison  Matt cassell.  That guy didn't even start in college!

 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you but that is a terrible way to get your argument across.  

[Indyfan4life]

9 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Sacrificing the future for a guy that’s been injured and only won one playoff game would be right up there with the dumbest moves of all time. If your going to do that move  to one and have the pick of any QB.

As @chad72 said, "Peyton had 7 one-and-dones with the Colts, was 3-6 with 4 one-and-dones before his first run en route to his first SB in 9 years to make it 7-6 after the 2006 season. Plus, Peyton had all that first round talent in Harrison, Wayne and Clark included in that record."

 

Harbaugh going for 2 pt conversions instead of taking PAT cost the Ravens more times than not.

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Yo, it's an idea/point of view. NEWSFLASH!! Coming from a fan.

 

I could give zero effs if you agree with it or if it's viewed as easy. You have a habit to throw emojis and act like you have inside knowledge of what this organization is going to do when you have zero 1st hand knowledge, yet it comes off as it's money in the bank.

 

Rarely that easy? Last I looked, you were just some "device or implement, especially one held in the hand, used to carry out a particular function" in a cesspool state typing on a fan forum. We should all be so lucky that we have someone with so much knowledge and incite because it's rarely that easy finding someone as informed as you to enlighten us common fans.  By accepting and acknowledging the confusion emoji clearly means I have fallen into "the fan point of view". My bad daddy, I'll be better next time

 

Telling us about small markets and the monies not there. Even if it falls into a pattern of certain history doesn't mean its solid. Anything is possible or we would have no need for the "where there's a will there's a way" catch phrase. You have zero idea of what you are talking about past your own speculation yet is always there to criticize the rest with your stupid little confusion. 

 

Here's what you should be puzzled by; the amount of time I will be put into timeout once I'm tattled on for being a bully. 

 

I'm guessing, NONE

 

Stop throwing emojis at glass houses my friend, sometimes that glass is going to shatter and cut you...

 

Carry on...

Wow…..    all that over one confusion emoji?!?    The password is thin skinned.  I’m so glad you got all that off your chest.  
 

You might as well put me on ignore.   You’re free to hate me with the others.  That doesn’t change my point of view.   You make a strange post and it’s likely an emoji you won’t like is coming your way.   So ignore me.   You’ll enjoy the website more if you don’t have to deal with that poster from the “cesspool state.”

[Stephen]

The thing I like the most about lamar jackson or richardson to the colts is how defenses would have to play us. They would need an extra man in the box to stop the run which will open up the pass game 

[Stephen]

I will go as far as to say if lamar jackson or anthony richardson sign with the colts that jonathan taylor breaks eric dickerson rushing record.

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, Indeee said:

You think Brissett was a success? 

 

The Rivers era here the entire team played over their head

 

Go take a nap

Not that you noticed, but Frank got a good season out of Brissett right up until he got hurt.   
 

And not that you noticed, but Frank helped Rivers to one of his best seasons in a year hit hard by Covid.   And that was after Rivers came off the worst year of his career, so bad, he had little FA interest.  
 

Funny how you didn’t know any of that. 
 

Even when I’m napping I know so much more about the Colts and the NFL than you could possibly imagine.   So, AGAIN, put me on ignore.   Carry on!    

[Smonroe]

16 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

Because the difference in Jackson/Ryan/Wentz isn’t even a question. I’m not saying that I want Jackson, but if I had the choice between those three? It isn’t not a difficult one to make. 

 

I think you missed my point.  When we got Wentz, we wanted him to be the QB he was three years before that.  When we got Ryan, we wanted him to be the QB he was three years before that.

 

If we get Lamar, we don't want him to be the QB he was in 21 or 22 when he missed the last 5 games of the season due to injury.  But we definitely wouldn't be getting the guy he was his MVP year.  Guys don't get faster or less injuries as they get older.  Plus, I think most D's have figured out his game by now.

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I think you missed my point.  When we got Wentz, we wanted him to be the QB he was three years before that.  When we got Ryan, we wanted him to be the QB he was three years before that.

 

If we get Lamar, we don't want him to be the QB he was in 21 or 22 when he missed the last 5 games of the season due to injury.  But we definitely wouldn't be getting the guy he was his MVP year.  Guys don't get faster or less injuries as they get older.  Plus, I think most D's have figured out his game by now.

 

Why do you think Greg Roman was let go? Teams had figured their O by now, he wasn't creative like the Andy Reid, Zac Taylor, Doug Pederson, Sean McVays, or Shane Steichens of the world. NFL DCs are too smart to not catch on. Just my opinion. 

 

The 2019 year, the Ravens' style of O with Lamar and Ingram running worked because their FB and OL were overpowering folks. Then Marshall Yanda retired and they have had issues with Ronnie Stanley's injury midway in 2020. Then 2021, again Stanley had a setback. 2022 they bounced back because of Stanley's health but then Lamar had gotten injured early enough, so the Ravens limped into the playoffs.

[Smonroe]

20 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

But come on that would be the most overpacked offense I can remember. 

 

Sure, but you're cherry picking what Lamar they'd have.  If we had Wentz or Ryan from their (Wentz's near) MVP years we would have won it all in 21.  

[Smonroe]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

Why do you think Greg Roman was let go? Teams had figured their O by now, he wasn't creative like the Andy Reid, Zac Taylor, Doug Pederson, Sean McVays, or Shane Steichens of the world. NFL DCs are too smart to not catch on. Just my opinion. 

 

 

I think I agree with you.  Unless you're saying a more creative coach could make Lamar work better than they did in Baltimore?

 

He still has the same traits - mainly a run first QB with questionable accuracy.

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I think I agree with you.  Unless you're saying a more creative coach could make Lamar work better than they did in Baltimore?

 

He still has the same traits - mainly a run first QB with questionable accuracy.

 

His accuracy hovers around the 62-63% mark, not the Mahomes like 66-67% or Burrow like 68%, but plenty enough to win. He is NOT Anthony Richardson or Cam Newton, much more accurate than Newton over his career. That is plenty good enough to win in the NFL. Good luck defending us in the red zone with both Lamar and JT if we get our OL straightened out. His abilities aren't much in question to me. 

 

The money and cost to acquire him is.

[CR91]

9 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Sure, but you're cherry picking what Lamar they'd have.  If we had Wentz or Ryan from their (Wentz's near) MVP years we would have won it all in 21.  

 

I don't know why you're comparing Wentz to Lamar. Their two completely different players with completely different baggage 

[DougDew]

20 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

You can't make a point with a sentence that includes manning, brady, and by comparison  Matt cassell.  That guy didn't even start in college!

 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you but that is a terrible way to get your argument across.  

A simple way of saying it is that it seems the QBs who change teams never have quite the success as they had with their old teams.  Only PM, Brady, and Rivers for that matter, and they were obviously in the waning years of their viability.

 

Especially a niche QB like a Lamar.  You don't just plug him into a new team and expect it to go the same way as it did with BAl.

 

Besides, in the years BAL actually won games, their offense was not the reason, it was the defense.  So why anybody wants Lamar at a huge cost and expect the Colts to then be a playoff contender just doesn't seem reasonable to me.

[ChuggaBeer]

40 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes, according to the NFL site that records such things.  If someone wants to question that, be my guess.

WOW

[DougDew]

Just now, ChuggaBeer said:

WOW

At 49mph, you can objectively think that Lamar has less arm talent than Sam Ehlinger. 

 

You can think it, but you're not supposed to say that out loud.

[ChuggaBeer]

35 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Sacrificing the future for a guy that’s been injured and only won one playoff game would be right up there with the dumbest moves of all time. If your going to do that move  to one and have the pick of any QB.

I am finding it hard to understand why you hate this idea so much.  LJ has the MOST SWAG of any of the QB's available outside of Rogers 

[Fluke_33]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

A simple way of saying it is that it seems the QBs who change teams never have quite the success as they had with their old teams.  Only PM, Brady, and Rivers for that matter, and they were obviously in the waning years of their viability.

 

Especially a niche QB like a Lamar.  You don't just plug him into a new team and expect it to go the same way as it did with BAl.

 

Besides, in the years BAL actually won games, their offense was not the reason, it was the defense.  So why anybody wants Lamar at a huge cost and expect the Colts to then be a playoff contender just doesn't seem reasonable to me.

 

 

Now that is a much better argument.   just don't bring in how bubby brister or billy joe hobert didn't pan out with new teams!  lol.

 

 

[chad72]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

A simple way of saying it is that it seems the QBs who change teams never have quite the success as they had with their old teams.  Only PM, Brady, and Rivers for that matter, and they were obviously in the waning years of their viability.

 

Especially a niche QB like a Lamar.  You don't just plug him into a new team and expect it to go the same way as it did with BAl.

 

Besides, in the years BAL actually won games, their offense was not the reason, it was the defense.  So why anybody wants Lamar at a huge cost and expect the Colts to then be a playoff contender just doesn't seem reasonable to me.

 

I know conversations with you go several pages and I don't have the bandwidth to go the distance now, so I will just say this.

 

No one is advocating for Lamar because he is a transcendent talent, no he is not. Also, the above bolded is a statement from someone who hasn't followed Ravens' games enough with Lamar at QB, clearly. Just because the Bengals' D or Ravens' D make opportune plays to finish games or provide game changing plays, doesn't mean Burrow or Lamar aren't a big part of their success in the ultimate complementary sport.

 

Plus, we do have an OC/HC that has a history of working with niche talent and/or limitations, as you put it. So your glass three quarters empty is at least glass half full for me when it comes to Lamar.

[Smonroe]

8 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

I don't know why you're comparing Wentz to Lamar. Their two completely different players with completely different baggage 

 

No, the point I was trying to make was that Lamar isn't the same player he was three years ago.  There's no disputing that he's had season ending injuries the last two seasons.

 

The same was true of both Wentz and Ryan when we got them.  They weren't the same players they were three years previously.

[CR91]

3 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

No, the point I was trying to make was that Lamar isn't the same player he was three years ago.  There's no disputing that he's had season ending injuries the last two seasons.

 

The same was true of both Wentz and Ryan when we got them.  They weren't the same players they were three years previously.

 

Ok, but we're not talking about an old QB or a QB that couldn't play. Lamar I'll add the when healthy is still a top 10 arguably top 5 QB. Look at his win record in the regular season and that's throwing to basically Mark Andrews

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I know conversations with you go several pages and I don't have the bandwidth to go the distance now, so I will just say this.

 

No one is advocating for Lamar because he is a transcendent talent, no he is not. Also, the above bolded is a statement from someone who hasn't followed Ravens' games enough with Lamar at QB, clearly. Just because the Bengals' D or Ravens' D make opportune plays to finish games or provide game changing plays, doesn't mean Burrow or Lamar aren't a big part of their success in the ultimate complementary sport.

 

Plus, we do have an OC/HC that has a history of working with niche talent, as you put it. So your glass three quarters empty is at least glass half full for me when it comes to Lamar.

The guy is holding out, basically, for about a $200M fully guaranteed contract after a team trades almost two first rounders just to have an opportunity to offer him that contract.

 

I would think that proof that he was a transcendental QB was already baked into the convo. 

 

If we could do a $25M per year for 4 years with 50% guaranteed after giving BAL two 4th rounders, I'd be more positive about his niche-ness and might be willing to sacrifice Levis' 5 year rookie deal.

[stitches]

I've made the point that the Colts have assembled a coaching staff as if they are preparing to coach/run offense with Anthony RIchardsonn... but Lamar Jackson actually fits that mold too. I get people's apprehension towards getting such a peculiar style QB, but that was one of Steichen's selling points - he can build an offense around his QB's strengths and he's done it already... and now has built an offensive coaching staff that has a lot of experience with simialrly dynamic dual threat QBs... 

 

This is not an endorsement of the Colts making such a trade, just trying to think of some of the reasoning this type of trade might be attractive to the Colts FO and Irsay... 

[Smonroe]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Ok, but we're not talking about an old QB or a QB that couldn't play. Lamar I'll add the when healthy is still a top 10 arguably top 5 QB. Look at his win record in the regular season and that's throwing to basically Mark Andrews

 

I agree - he's a great QB.  And from what I understand, he's great in the community and in the locker room.

 

Given all that being true - why won't the Ravens give him what he wants?  As we know, franchise QBs are unicorns.  When you get one you do everything you can to keep him.  Especially when he's in his prime, right?

 

The reason they won't give him what he wants (at least IMHO) is that they see the injuries each year, and with his game, it's not going to get better.

 

They know him better than any other team.  If they won't give him what he wants, why would the Colts?

 

Someone please explain this to me.

 

 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

 

Then they'd have four QBs on IR by the playoffs.

 

Why do people think we'd get a guy that he was three years ago?  Wentz, Ryan... haven't we learned?

Exactly Lamar is beat up, can’t stay healthy. Why the hell else would the Ravens let him go

[CR91]

5 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I agree - he's a great QB.  And from what I understand, he's great in the community and in the locker room.

 

Given all that being true - why won't the Ravens give him what he wants?  As we know, franchise QBs are unicorns.  When you get one you do everything you can to keep him.  Especially when he's in his prime, right?

 

The reason they won't give him what he wants (at least IMHO) is that they see the injuries each year, and with his game, it's not going to get better.

 

They know him better than any other team.  If they won't give him what he wants, why would the Colts?

 

Someone please explain this to me.

 

 

 

Honestly I have a different outlook to it. Lamar is his own agent which means every negative the agent normally hears and not the player, he's hearing. He's hearing the injuries, the inefficiencies as a passer, the "we won before you" stick and that stuff will effect you. Clearly he's hearing all these negative criticisms not from a business standpoint, but from a personal one and that's causing a rift.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

I've made the point that the Colts have assembled a coaching staff as if they are preparing to coach/run offense with Anthony RIchardsonn... but Lamar Jackson actually fits that mold too. I get people's apprehension towards getting such a peculiar style QB, but that was one of Steichen's selling points - he can build an offense around his QB's strengths and he's done it already... and now has built an offensive coaching staff that has a lot of experience with simialrly dynamic dual threat QBs... 

 

This is not an endorsement of the Colts making such a trade, just trying to think of some of the reasoning this type of trade might be attractive to the Colts FO and Irsay... 

I don’t think Hurts  is anything like Lamar.

[Indyfan4life]

7 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Exactly Lamar is beat up, can’t stay healthy. Why the hell else would the Ravens let him go

Call me crazy, but I don't think they've let him go.