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If we pretend Ballard would seriously consider a WR in the 2d round...who do you like


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I feel extremely sure he won't, but let's say he has a change of heart (or Irsay has a heart to heart with him ;) ) who among the realistically might be available WRs do you like? My thoughts

 

Moore - you'd like him to be a little bigger and/or faster, and he's only played small school-level talent, but worth the risk.

Pickens - ACL issues, but that aside, immature head case. No thank you.

Austin - super fast but super tiny. I'd love him as WR3, but WR1? Isn't happening. 

Watson - has the measurables but also has the dropsies. If you can live with that occasional drop, could be a viable choice.

Bell - doesn't have the speed you want, but has everything else. Seem like another Pittman to me. I wouldn't mind him in the 2d despite the lack of speed, but that is a concern. (PS he's from Indy)

Ross - injury concerns and another slower WR.

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11 minutes ago, jonjon said:

Moore - you'd like him to be a little bigger and/or faster, and he's only played small school-level talent, but worth the risk.

 

He ran faster than I thought he would, and I like him.

 

Also not sure why you're writing off Ballard drafting a WR in the second. I'm thinking that's the plan.

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47 minutes ago, jonjon said:

I feel extremely sure he won't, but let's say he has a change of heart (or Irsay has a heart to heart with him ;) ) who among the realistically might be available WRs do you like? My thoughts

 

Moore - you'd like him to be a little bigger and/or faster, and he's only played small school-level talent, but worth the risk.

Pickens - ACL issues, but that aside, immature head case. No thank you.

Austin - super fast but super tiny. I'd love him as WR3, but WR1? Isn't happening. 

Watson - has the measurables but also has the dropsies. If you can live with that occasional drop, could be a viable choice.

Bell - doesn't have the speed you want, but has everything else. Seem like another Pittman to me. I wouldn't mind him in the 2d despite the lack of speed, but that is a concern. (PS he's from Indy)

Ross - injury concerns and another slower WR.


Ballard drafted Michael Pittman in the 2nd round.   And he also drafted Parris Campbell in the 2nd round.   He did that in back to back drafts, 2019, and 2020. 
 

This doesn’t guarantee that he’ll do it again this year, though I personally hope he does.  I’m just saying that your premise that Ballard is not likely to do this has already proven to be false. 

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I don't have to pretend that Ballard would consider a WR in the 2nd round.  He picked Pittman with pick 37 in 2020.

 

I came into the offseason with Jalen Tolbert as my favorite receiver for the Colts.  After the combine and more written analysis, he's still my favorite.  Good speed, hands, routes, and he's 6'1".

 

Even better, other guys had even better combines, launching them above Tolbert (if you believe the pundits).

 

After the Wentz trade and the move up to 42, I'd like to see a small trade back to the early 50s and take Tolbert there.

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jalen-tolbert/3200544f-4c14-8914-de91-cd54d59de2a2

 

 

 

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I'd actually like for Ballard to trade back a little in the 2nd and maybe get an additional late 3rd (dreaming I know) or 4th round pick.

 

In the 2nd I'm hoping for Tolbert or Watson. Hoping for Kerby Joseph (S) and Kellen Diesch (T) for our following picks.

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1 hour ago, jonjon said:

I feel extremely sure he won't, but let's say he has a change of heart (or Irsay has a heart to heart with him ;) ) who among the realistically might be available WRs do you like? My thoughts

 

Moore - you'd like him to be a little bigger and/or faster, and he's only played small school-level talent, but worth the risk.

Pickens - ACL issues, but that aside, immature head case. No thank you.

Austin - super fast but super tiny. I'd love him as WR3, but WR1? Isn't happening. 

Watson - has the measurables but also has the dropsies. If you can live with that occasional drop, could be a viable choice.

Bell - doesn't have the speed you want, but has everything else. Seem like another Pittman to me. I wouldn't mind him in the 2d despite the lack of speed, but that is a concern. (PS he's from Indy)

Ross - injury concerns and another slower WR.

He has drafted Campbell and Pittman in the 2nd

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If Christian Watson is there at 42, I would pick him in a nano-second. Great hands; great speed; great size, and an athletic freak. 
 

I do love Bell, but not until the 3rd round. 

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2 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I'd actually like for Ballard to trade back a little in the 2nd and maybe get an additional late 3rd (dreaming I know) or 4th round pick.

 

In the 2nd I'm hoping for Tolbert or Watson. Hoping for Kerby Joseph (S) and Kellen Diesch (T) for our following picks.

Colts value is 480 at the 42/10th pick in the second round. They could trade down to say, the 57/25th pick in the second, and receive a (150 value) 88/24th in the third round. That said, it might be a bit higher....if the other team asks for the trade. If the Colts ask for it, it would be lower. Just a guess.....

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9 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Colts value is 480 at the 42/10th pick in the second round. They could trade down to say, the 57/25th pick in the second, and receive a (150 value) 88/24th in the third round. That said, it might be a bit higher....if the other team asks for the trade. If the Colts ask for it, it would be lower. Just a guess.....

I could end up being wrong but I don’t think Ballard traded up to trade back down.  Then again the draft makes for odd things.

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7 hours ago, jonjon said:

I feel extremely sure he won't, but let's say he has a change of heart (or Irsay has a heart to heart with him ;) ) who among the realistically might be available WRs do you like? My thoughts

 

Moore - you'd like him to be a little bigger and/or faster, and he's only played small school-level talent, but worth the risk.

Pickens - ACL issues, but that aside, immature head case. No thank you.

Austin - super fast but super tiny. I'd love him as WR3, but WR1? Isn't happening. 

Watson - has the measurables but also has the dropsies. If you can live with that occasional drop, could be a viable choice.

Bell - doesn't have the speed you want, but has everything else. Seem like another Pittman to me. I wouldn't mind him in the 2d despite the lack of speed, but that is a concern. (PS he's from Indy)

Ross - injury concerns and another slower WR.

Pretend?  

 

Pittman and Parris were both recent picks in rd 2....

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3 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I could end up being wrong but I don’t think Ballard traded up to trade back down.  Then again the draft makes for odd things.

 

It wasn't really a trade up though was it. It was more like finding a small amount of additional value in the Wentz trade. I could definitely see him parlay the value he got there into even more value by trading back. Doing so would recoup as much of the lost value from Wentz as possible. 

 

I certainly don't think it's a lock that Ballard moves back but he did mention it in his presser and I don't think you can really define the move from 47 to 42 as a 'trade up' exactly.

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The fact that Ballard picked Pittman and Campbell in Round 2 means nothing about this year. He knew we badly needed WR help then. He's made it very clear he doesn't feel that way at all now. Those of you expecting a WR with that 2d round pick will likely be disappointed. 

 

Anyway, yeah Bell seems to be the best match of could be available and would be a good pick. Moore would be my fallback choice. Although at that point one of the top TEs might be the way to go.

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1 hour ago, jonjon said:

The fact that Ballard picked Pittman and Campbell in Round 2 means nothing about this year. He knew we badly needed WR help then. He's made it very clear he doesn't feel that way at all now. Those of you expecting a WR with that 2d round pick will likely be disappointed. 

 

Anyway, yeah Bell seems to be the best match of could be available and would be a good pick. Moore would be my fallback choice. Although at that point one of the top TEs might be the way to go.

Hasn't his comments regarding WR and not being desperate at that position mainly been in regard to forking out 15 to 20 mill on a FA vet? I would assume a lot of teams are looking at a deep WR class rather than pay the big money and then see where the land lies with FA afterwards. I'm not saying he'll go WR in round 2 coz Ballard is pretty much a BPA guy but if that happens to be a WR he'll take then I would assume 

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1 hour ago, jonjon said:

No, his comments have been about how he feels the WRs we have are enough. Which IMO is ridiculous.

 

Good article on this here IMO: https://www.wibc.com/colts-coverage/colts-sticking-by-unproven-wide-receiver-talent/

I've long thought (accurately or not) that CB's foundational philosophy (seemingly that

you win in the trenches, by running the ball and playing great D) was locked-in during

his 2001-10 stint in Chicago. He was there when that 2006/7 squad went to the SB with 

the following starters:

 

QB - Grossman, WR- Bernard Berrian and Mushin Muhammad and TE- Desmond Clark.

 

Those are hardly household names. Other than Muhammad for a couple years, they 

are average NFL players.

 

Does that experience still heavily influence his stance on the importance of those

 spots in the position valuation, pecking order ?

 

I suspect that it does.

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2 hours ago, jonjon said:

No, his comments have been about how he feels the WRs we have are enough. Which IMO is ridiculous.

 

Good article on this here IMO: https://www.wibc.com/colts-coverage/colts-sticking-by-unproven-wide-receiver-talent/

 

  Who is being Ridiculous?
   It is NOT TRUE what you say as it is right there to read.
  He said he will add to the WR room, PLAIN & for the Simple.

   "Is this the right approach when comparing the Colts wideouts to others around the league?" 

  We had a 9-3 stretch and were right at the top of the league in scoring with TY and Pascal contributing not a lot.
  One would require a very narrow mind to fail to believe that we are not stronger in the passing game TODAY, than last season. And with more help on the way.
 You people Fantasize snapping YOUR fingers and us being SB contenders when it Could Not Be More OBVIOUS that we are regrouping on defense, and still developing, and must add more young talent ACROSS THE ROSTER. SOOOORY!  We are where we are.      Wake Up!!! Chill out!

  Don't be Ridiculous!  Look FORWARD to the final roster with Frank, Ryan, and Reggie getting our WR GROUP synched up to do THEIR JOBS.
 And getting our $$$ worth out of Hines in the slot should excite the wise of you. He absolutely should be excellent attacking the middle.

 You know like poor old Doyle did so well last season.   :funny:
   

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55 minutes ago, indykmj said:

I've long thought (accurately or not) that CB's foundational philosophy (seemingly that

you win in the trenches, by running the ball and playing great D) was locked-in during

his 2001-10 stint in Chicago. He was there when that 2006/7 squad went to the SB with 

the following starters:

 

QB - Grossman, WR- Bernard Berrian and Mushin Muhammad and TE- Desmond Clark.

 

Those are hardly household names. Other than Muhammad for a couple years, they 

are average NFL players.

 

Does that experience still heavily influence his stance on the importance of those

 spots in the position valuation, pecking order ?

 

I suspect that it does.

 

  Uh, protect the QB, and having a sound running game helps do that!

  And Don't let your opponent run all over you. It is really demoralizing!
 YIP, it's safe to say CB picked up on the tried and true.
   Unfortunately Rosters change about 80% over any four year period so CB and his staff MUST consistently find good prospects. And the kind that never get injuries. Yeah, draft those kind! 

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12 hours ago, jonjon said:

I feel extremely sure he won't, but let's say he has a change of heart (or Irsay has a heart to heart with him ;) ) who among the realistically might be available WRs do you like? My thoughts

 

Moore - you'd like him to be a little bigger and/or faster, and he's only played small school-level talent, but worth the risk.

Pickens - ACL issues, but that aside, immature head case. No thank you.

Austin - super fast but super tiny. I'd love him as WR3, but WR1? Isn't happening. 

Watson - has the measurables but also has the dropsies. If you can live with that occasional drop, could be a viable choice.

Bell - doesn't have the speed you want, but has everything else. Seem like another Pittman to me. I wouldn't mind him in the 2d despite the lack of speed, but that is a concern. (PS he's from Indy)

Ross - injury concerns and another slower WR.

I’ll bite. Why do you think Ballard wouldn’t take a 2nd round WR? He’s done it before

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3 hours ago, jonjon said:

No, his comments have been about how he feels the WRs we have are enough. Which IMO is ridiculous.

 

Good article on this here IMO: https://www.wibc.com/colts-coverage/colts-sticking-by-unproven-wide-receiver-talent/

What did you expect him to do? Blast and insult all the WRs we do currently have?! Or for him to come out and say “WR is our target with our second pick?” 

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2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Who is being Ridiculous?
   It is NOT TRUE what you say as it is right there to read.
  He said he will add to the WR room, PLAIN & for the Simple.

   "Is this the right approach when comparing the Colts wideouts to others around the league?" 

  We had a 9-3 stretch and were right at the top of the league in scoring with TY and Pascal contributing not a lot.
  One would require a very narrow mind to fail to believe that we are not stronger in the passing game TODAY, than last season. And with more help on the way.
 You people Fantasize snapping YOUR fingers and us being SB contenders when it Could Not Be More OBVIOUS that we are regrouping on defense, and still developing, and must add more young talent ACROSS THE ROSTER. SOOOORY!  We are where we are.      Wake Up!!! Chill out!

  Don't be Ridiculous!  Look FORWARD to the final roster with Frank, Ryan, and Reggie getting our WR GROUP synched up to do THEIR JOBS.
 And getting our $$$ worth out of Hines in the slot should excite the wise of you. He absolutely should be excellent attacking the middle.

 You know like poor old Doyle did so well last season.   :funny:
   

preach brother preach!!

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5 hours ago, jonjon said:

No, his comments have been about how he feels the WRs we have are enough. Which IMO is ridiculous.

 

Good article on this here IMO: https://www.wibc.com/colts-coverage/colts-sticking-by-unproven-wide-receiver-talent/

I believe he said he liked the group not that they were enough.  You can like something and still add to it. Ballard said just this week that they need to add to the WR room.  Now does that mean it will be the 2nd round pick?  That all depends on whose there. Say a first round grade left tackle slips to them he’s probably going to draft him than any WR on the board.   However the same would be true if a first round grade WR slips. We just don’t know but to answer your question yes I think he would seriously consider it if the right guy is there.

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33 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I believe he said he liked the group not that they were enough.  You can like something and still add to it. Ballard said just this week that they need to add to the WR room.  Now does that mean it will be the 2nd round pick?  That all depends on whose there. Say a first round grade left tackle slips to them he’s probably going to draft him than any WR on the board.   However the same would be true if a first round grade WR slips. We just don’t know but to answer your question yes I think he would seriously consider it if the right guy is there.

 

  IF, the Bengals had drafted an o-lineman rather than one of those WR they might be SB Champs. 
  When your QB can read a D, throw accurately, and on time, and throws to 8+ people regularly, you can win a SB with that. Belichek
  But not without a solid o-line and a sound running game.
  And not without the ability to stiffle their run game, and not without good pressure on the QB, and not without having a pretty good back seven.

  

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14 minutes ago, runtelldat said:

My guess is they will go WR, WR, TE... I think they are looking to this draft for the weapons and hoping they hit on those picks.

This is the angle I would go, I would do everything in my power to get Landry, re-sign TY on a cheap deal for like 6 Mill for 1 year - he can still give you 4 or 5 really good games. Start Mo at TE. Then I would take a LT and a CB with my 2 and 3 picks. If we draft a WR, it will probably take them 2 or 3 years before they become good. That is the norm. Pittman was better last year and should be good in year 3 for example. It took Reggie Wayne 3 years before he became good.

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19 hours ago, jonjon said:

I feel extremely sure he won't, but let's say he has a change of heart (or Irsay has a heart to heart with him ;) ) who among the realistically might be available WRs do you like? My thoughts

 

Moore - you'd like him to be a little bigger and/or faster, and he's only played small school-level talent, but worth the risk.

Yes please! I like Moore. I really like him. Probably my favorite from the players that can reasonably be there for us to pick.

19 hours ago, jonjon said:

Pickens - ACL issues, but that aside, immature head case. No thank you.

I hear you about his issues. Pickens still is one of the most talented receivers in this draft. I think he's one of the few who can actually end up being a top 5 WR in the league if things click for him. 

 

19 hours ago, jonjon said:

Austin - super fast but super tiny. I'd love him as WR3, but WR1? Isn't happening. 

I am a bit split on him, I like him as theoretical player. I am just not sure it looks as good on a field as it sounds in theory. 

 

19 hours ago, jonjon said:

Watson - has the measurables but also has the dropsies. If you can live with that occasional drop, could be a viable choice.

I think he's super raw. He's the WR version of Malik Willis. When you watch him and see how he moves and how he explodes with ball in his hands, you can't help but dream about him potentially being a versatile weapon you can line up literally anywhere around the LOS... even as RB/wildcat. I'm not sure the technical part of playing the position are great with him at this point. Still worth taking a shot at probably. 

19 hours ago, jonjon said:

Bell - doesn't have the speed you want, but has everything else. Seem like another Pittman to me. I wouldn't mind him in the 2d despite the lack of speed, but that is a concern. (PS he's from Indy)

I think I would pass on him. I may regret that but I just don't see him as a game changer in the league. He looks like a possession receiver in the league to me. 

19 hours ago, jonjon said:

Ross - injury concerns and another slower WR.

Yeah, a lot will depend on his medicals. 

 

My personal favorites

- Chris Olave - love him, incredibly technically sound receiver. + he has some speed... The only thing I wish he would do better is play more physical at the catch point. He's probably not falling to us though... 

- John Metchie - another very solid route runner with expansive route tree. Very crisp. Negatives - not explosive and ACL injury late in the year. 

- Jahan Dotson - fast and quick, threat at all 3 levels, wonder if he falls to the second?

- Jalen Tolbert - another potential X receiver I like. 

- Wan'Dale Robinson - probably translates best as a quick slot, but has some potential to be outside Z too IMO. Has speed, can be a gadget player, good after the catch... 

- Khalil Shakir - probably my newest favorite WR to watch. He will probably be a slot in the NFL... so no idea where you want to draft a slot receiver... but he's the best slot in this draft IMO. He looks incredibly refined and deliberate after the catch. Makes people miss... and looks like he's planning every miss in advance. Also, catches everything... including some wild acrobatic catches. 

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12 hours ago, jonjon said:

The fact that Ballard picked Pittman and Campbell in Round 2 means nothing about this year. He knew we badly needed WR help then. He's made it very clear he doesn't feel that way at all now. Those of you expecting a WR with that 2d round pick will likely be disappointed. 

 

Anyway, yeah Bell seems to be the best match of could be available and would be a good pick. Moore would be my fallback choice. Although at that point one of the top TEs might be the way to go.

I mean, if we are going to go that route, your opinion of being "extremely sure" Ballard wouldn't, thus necessitating the request that we suspend disbelief in order to somehow conjure up the remotest possibility of him drafting a WR in round two.... Is substantially less an indicator than his past behavior actually drafting WR in round two is.  Just sayin'

 

That said, I agree it isn't likely a priority with the first pick as of April 1....  

 

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5 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  IF, the Bengals had drafted an o-lineman rather than one of those WR they might be SB Champs. 
  When your QB can read a D, throw accurately, and on time, and throws to 8+ people regularly, you can win a SB with that. Belichek
  But not without a solid o-line and a sound running game.
  And not without the ability to stiffle their run game, and not without good pressure on the QB, and not without having a pretty good back seven.

  

Now who's being ridiculous? If the Bengals had drafted an OL instead of Jamarr Chase, they likely wouldn't have even sniffed the SB. He was a HUGE part of why they were there (PS full disclosure: I did think at the time they should have drafted OL too. You just never know...)

 

Sound running game? You mean like the Rams last year? Or the Bucs the previous year? Fournette had his moments, but was hot and cold, esp given all the talent around him; not sure how sound I'd call that, but with their passing game, it didn't much matter. The Chiefs didn't have much of a running game the year before that but obviously they didn't need it. etc. By and large, you win (or lose) through the air. 

 

I don't know what Ballard will do on draft day, but based on what I have seen and heard, including his near-total inactivity in free agency, I think he seems quite content to go into the season with the WRs we have. IMO not drafting one high would be a mistake, though I realize we have other needs of course, and if a good enough player at another position like OL falls, you have to weigh all the factors. Of course if we had filled more of those holes in free agency with someone even competent, it would have given us a better and clearer course of action in the draft.

 

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20 hours ago, Hoose said:

If Christian Watson is there at 42, I would pick him in a nano-second. Great hands; great speed; great size, and an athletic freak.  

Agree with everything except great hands. He's known to have drop issues and catch with his body/chest vs his hands. 

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22 hours ago, jonjon said:

I feel extremely sure he won't, but let's say he has a change of heart (or Irsay has a heart to heart with him ;) ) who among the realistically might be available WRs do you like? My thoughts

 

Moore - you'd like him to be a little bigger and/or faster, and he's only played small school-level talent, but worth the risk.

Pickens - ACL issues, but that aside, immature head case. No thank you.

Austin - super fast but super tiny. I'd love him as WR3, but WR1? Isn't happening. 

Watson - has the measurables but also has the dropsies. If you can live with that occasional drop, could be a viable choice.

Bell - doesn't have the speed you want, but has everything else. Seem like another Pittman to me. I wouldn't mind him in the 2d despite the lack of speed, but that is a concern. (PS he's from Indy)

Ross - injury concerns and another slower WR.

Ballard is only going to take a WR with our first pick in the second round IF.  He is the highest player available on their draft board 

8 Needs:    If they have one of those players in those 8 needs ranked higher.  That will be the pick 

 

Unless its a QB.   It would be suicide for any GM to reach for a lower ranked position over any other position. 

 

It is aways BPA  and if its close or relatively close.  You go for need 

 

Never reach for need 

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23 hours ago, DougDew said:

I don't have to pretend that Ballard would consider a WR in the 2nd round.  He picked Pittman with pick 37 in 2020.

 

I came into the offseason with Jalen Tolbert as my favorite receiver for the Colts.  After the combine and more written analysis, he's still my favorite.  Good speed, hands, routes, and he's 6'1".

 

Even better, other guys had even better combines, launching them above Tolbert (if you believe the pundits).

 

After the Wentz trade and the move up to 42, I'd like to see a small trade back to the early 50s and take Tolbert there.

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jalen-tolbert/3200544f-4c14-8914-de91-cd54d59de2a2

 

 

 

I agree 

 

Tolbert will be best WR from the class 

 

 

You are on the money 

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I’d like to add an outside guy that has speed to stretch the field and a slot guy.  For outside I’d really like Alex Pierce, George Pickens or Jalen Tolbert. For slot I’d like Khalil Shakir, Calvin Austin, or Kyle Phillips….  I’d be thrilled with any combination but I’d probably go with Pierce and Shakir if I had to pick based on my limited knowledge.  Add a LT prospect that can compete and develop, a fast safety like Joseph or Cross, and maybe a TE that can play fill the Doyle role like maybe Ruckert and I’m tickled.  I think if we can trade back a little in the 2nd and pick up a 3rd it might be possible to get all those roles filled without reaching if the board falls right. Either way I’m excited and am expecting us to draft almost no one I’m targeting in mock drafts lol. 

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8 minutes ago, Alex22 said:

I agree 

 

Tolbert will be best WR from the class 

 

 

You are on the money 

Well, to be accurate, I think there are guys who will go in the first round who will be better. 

 

But for WRs who are reasonable gets where we draft, I think he is the best long term fit.  Zeurlein's write up about his current polish with traits for improving his all around game is very intriguing.  Have seen the same in other analyses.

 

I like Skye Moore too.  

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I think Ballard is praying that 6’3” cornerback Tariq Woolen is still there when we pick in the 2nd.  He’s a converted receiver and could maybe play the Richard Sherman role in Bradley’s defense.  Sherman was a converted receiver too.
 

Then we draft David Bell in the 3rd.  If Woolen is gone and there isn’t a sure fire receiver, like Jameson Williams dropping to us, I think Ballard trades back and tries to stockpile some picks and still get Bell in the 3rd.  
 

He’s gonna give Campbell one more chance to prove himself (he looked great in that 1st game with Rivers).  With a similarly accurate and quick processing QB like Ryan, Campbell may finally break out or “break” for the last time.  
 

Also, we should expect Hines to supplement the passing game with a lot of work from the slot.  He and Taylor need to be on the field together more often anyway.  So many creative things we could do with those two.

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