Darius Leonard Thoughts

[Four2itus]

This thread is ridiculous, over-emotional blather.......topped off with predictable finger pointing.....served over a bed of unsatisfied fandom.

[Chrisaaron1023]

Lol I was gonna say... Darius Leonard, needs to stop throwing his left glove into the stands after the game! 

[Yoshinator]

39 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

This thread is ridiculous, over-emotional blather.......topped off with predictable finger pointing.....served over a bed of unsatisfied fandom.

I haven't posted yet on this particular thread and just saw your post, but yes, there is unsatisfied fandom when you have 20 years of combined Manning and Luck and only win one SB. People are still ticked off and take it out in other ways. I don't personally blame them. Manning goes to the Broncos and basically accomplishes what he accomplishes here in 14 years in 4 years on the Broncos. Then Luck retires and we are depending on one-year stopgaps such as Rivers with an unknown future.

 

Literally the only great thing about this team is Ballard, and unless we get a franchise QB, all the work he did the last 4 years will be useless because of Luck. If you were a fan since 98 like me, then the team has underperformed and has gotten weak results based on the quality of Manning and Luck as QBs. No two ways about it.

[jbaron04]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

Thats why extending him ASAP is crucial. I feel like his potential contract numbers are only gonna go up as the entire D improves.

 

He's a legit player but ultimately could end up costing the Colts 18 to 20m  if they play the waiting game. 

 

I like Leonard a lot but I'm not sure how I feel paying an inconsistent player that much if it comes down to it.

I think all good players have up and down stretches, but hey we paying Jacob more than 18m to play back up qb. But I agree the longer we wait it might cost us more but Ballard has been on the winning side of give contract extension so far on who to extend and who not to 

[danlhart87]

40 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

I think all good players have up and down stretches, but hey we paying Jacob more than 18m to play back up qb. But I agree the longer we wait it might cost us more but Ballard has been on the winning side of give contract extension so far on who to extend and who not to 

Ballard is usually good at extending his own players before hand so I have faith he will geta deal done and it will be a good one

[danlhart87]

There's nothing wrong with discussing Leonard's future. I like Leonard but its not a guarantee he's even be here past 22'

 

The only untouchables are Nelson and Buckner IMO.

[Moosejawcolt]

22 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

Let me start by saying that I support Darius Leonard. I cant overlook his inconsistent play this year though.

 

The Colts D in general needs to be more consistent and that starts with Leonard. 

 

I love that Leonard is the vocal leader but his play needs to back it up. 

 

If Leonard's inconsistent play continues til 22' I have no problem letting him walk. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blasphemy. How dare u? Leonard 2 time all pro. I have been one of the few that believe  he is over rated. Against balanced offences, you dont tend to hear his name much. Against one dimensional offences, he makes plays. Dont believe me. Go back and watch the games. I am not a hater. Honestly when he demands his 20 million a year. Im like c yeah. Okereke at middle and Walker at Will.  I would love Speed to develop, as I like his physical play.

[danlhart87]

3 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Blasphemy. How dare u? Leonard 2 time all pro. I have been one of the few that believe  he is over rated. Against balanced offences, you dont tend to hear his name much. Against one dimensional offences, he makes plays. Dont believe me. Go back and watch the games. I am not a hater. Honestly when he demands his 20 million a year. Im like c yeah. Okereke at middle and Walker at Will.  I would love Speed to develop, as I like his physical play.

He's a solid player but clearly doesn't deserve 20m. I wouldn't say he's overrated though. Maybe to some Colts fans...

[Moosejawcolt]

19 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

Nelson isn’t playing as well as last year either so I assume you will let him walk too? 
getting rid of your best players is not how you build a team.  

Well, I definitely would look at offers. I hear that Nelson is so valuable to the Oine. I dont see it this year. The Oline is not playing well. People have said that we can put any LT in the game and Neslon will cover up the warts. How did that look last week??

[NewColtsFan]

14 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Well, I definitely would look at offers. I hear that Nelson is so valuable to the Oine. I dont see it this year. The Oline is not playing well. People have said that we can put any LT in the game and Neslon will cover up the warts. How did that look last week??

News flash:  the O-line isn’t playing well as a run blocking unit.   It’s still a top 3-5 pass blocking unit.  Or doesn’t that matter anymore?

 

By all means blame our left tackle problems on Nelson.   Please do.   The more you try to explain yourself, the worse you look.   Carry on!

[danlhart87]

32 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Well, I definitely would look at offers. I hear that Nelson is so valuable to the Oine. I dont see it this year. The Oline is not playing well. People have said that we can put any LT in the game and Neslon will cover up the warts. How did that look last week??

Nelson is valuable. The OL despite flaws this year in run protection has been stellar in pass.

 

I cant imagine this line without Q which is exactly why you pay him.

[jvan1973]

46 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Well, I definitely would look at offers. I hear that Nelson is so valuable to the Oine. I dont see it this year. The Oline is not playing well. People have said that we can put any LT in the game and Neslon will cover up the warts. How did that look last week??

Nelson will be all pro again.   

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Rivers has never bee very sacked do few times in his career. We May give up less sacks then 2018. It’s starting to look like the run game is getting better as Taylor is getting better and seeing things better. The oline hasn’t been bad.

[danlhart87]

5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Rivers has never bee very sacked do few times in his career. We May give up less sacks then 2018. It’s starting to look like the run game is getting better as Taylor is getting better and seeing things better. The oline hasn’t been bad.

Don't tell @Moosejawcoltthat

[Moosejawcolt]

53 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Don't tell @Moosejawcoltthat

And near the bottom in yards per carry  Remember 3 1st rounders and a high 2nd rounder on thst elite...cough cough Oline.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Nelson will be all pro again.   

We shall c

[w87r]

Just now, Moosejawcolt said:

And near the bottom in yards per carry  Remember 3 1st rounders and a high 2nd rounder on thst elite...cough cough Oline.

What do you know, your typical appearance of the site. Trashing the team.

 

Seriously I'm not sure why you even "root" for the Colts. I use that term very, very loosely, as I don't think you do at all, except to root for them to lose. All you do is trash them and complain about everything. Talk about how other franchises are ran better. At what point does it stop? Is there an end game for you?

 

Another boring weekend, huh?

 

 

[danlhart87]

The top 3 YPC teamscurrently aren't even in the playoffs so despite those flaws you care to go on and on about it rarely effects the W L column.

 

Football is a team sport. Its funny too that you rarely credit the pass protection but are quick to trash the run protection anytime you get .

 

Back on track though I am hoping Leonard comes out blazin against Raiders. 

[IinD]

I gotta check my book, might still have Cato June's phone number somewhere.

 

 

[NFLfan]

2 hours ago, w87r said:

What do you know, your typical appearance of the site. Trashing the team.

 

Seriously I'm not sure why you even "root" for the Colts. I use that term very, very loosely, as I don't think you do at all, except to root for them to lose. All you do is trash them and complain about everything. Talk about how other franchises are ran better. At what point does it stop? Is there an end game for you?

 

Another boring weekend, huh?

 

He is not a Colts fan. He is obviously trolling. Not one of his comments is supportive of the team. 

 

[braveheartcolt]

Definitely let him go. Only being a very very good player is not good enough for us. Only HOF type ability is what we need.

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Well, I definitely would look at offers. I hear that Nelson is so valuable to the Oine. I dont see it this year. The Oline is not playing well. People have said that we can put any LT in the game and Neslon will cover up the warts. How did that look last week??

Do you like anyone on the team?

[Jdubu]

On 12/12/2020 at 12:00 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We will see how he plays in 2021, he set the bar so high for himself in 2018 and 2019 that now at times he just looks like normal good LB. He still has been good this year IMO. Take him off our defense and we are not the same, JMO.

The odd thing I see, and it looks like others have also touched on this too. With Buckner playing, I would have expected an All Pro player to really pop on the stat sheets because now he finally has another equal star creating in front of him. I would expect others like Turay and even Banagu to have seen some immediate success. What is it that Leonard isn’t doing well this season vs last? Is he getting stuffed on blitzes? Is he getting lost in coverage routes? Are they trying to have Leonard cover wr’s instead of backs or TE’s coming into his area? Is he playing more man or more zone than previous year? I mean, where is his biggest liability that is shinning on him right now with a legit top 3 DT making a huge difference in front of him that he didn’t have last two seasons? You would just think that given a better product to protect in front of you, his production would at the very least stay level with much more likely to elevate more but it doesn’t appear that’s the case for DL. Maybe he has an injury that’s not disclosed and he is not at 100%. You can’t pay a guy top 2 lb money if he shows drop off with a super star in front of him, but again, you have to know why he isn’t an improved product this season vs prior to know it’s ok to pay the big money or have to pause and ask what’s going on. CB will know the answer to this question and act accordingly.
 

GM’s should pay based on prior years of action because your not likely to see all pro level at its highest play as the guy gets older. You can project what the player can become in growth and pay for that imho. If CB were to think we’ve seen the ceiling now and DL could start his plateau or a decline (should be at peak point next contract) then CB makes his price point. Hopefully DL stays and is paid well but not team crippling money. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

 

The odd thing I see, and it looks like others have also touched on this too. With Buckner playing, I would have expected an All Pro player to really pop on the stat sheets because now he finally has another equal star creating in front of him. I would expect others like Turay and even Banagu to have seen some immediate success. What is it that Leonard isn’t doing well this season vs last? Is he getting stuffed on blitzes? Is he getting lost in coverage routes? Are they trying to have Leonard cover wr’s instead of backs or TE’s coming into his area? Is he playing more man or more zone than previous year? I mean, where is his biggest liability that is shinning on him right now with a legit top 3 DT making a huge difference in front of him that he didn’t have last two seasons? You would just think that given a better product to protect in front of you, his production would at the very least stay level with much more likely to elevate more but it doesn’t appear that’s the case for DL. Maybe he has an injury that’s not disclosed and he is not at 100%. You can’t pay a guy top 2 lb money if he shows drop off with a super star in front of him, but again, you have to know why he isn’t an improved product this season vs prior to know it’s ok to pay the big money or have to pause and ask what’s going on. CB will know the answer to this question and act accordingly.
 

GM’s should pay based on prior years of action because your not likely to see all pro level at its highest play as the guy gets older. You can project what the player can become in growth and pay for that imho. If CB were to think we’ve seen the ceiling now and DL could start his plateau or a decline (should be at peak point next contract) then CB makes his price point. Hopefully DL stays and is paid well but not team crippling money. 

I am not sure why he isn't playing like he did in 2018 and 2019, he may be a little banged up, hard telling. He still has played good just not like the prior 2 years.

[Jdubu]

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not sure why he isn't playing like he did in 2018 and 2019, he may be a little banged up, hard telling. He still has played good just not like the prior 2 years.

I haven’t watched the games this year (call it my ratings protest against their kneeling protest). Where is he not better in his game mainly? Is it coverage or run defense? Do you see him loafing any or making poor reads? Is he trying to be more of a freelancer now in an attempt to make bigger plays while having DB in front of him now and he just isn’t making that flash play? I guess I’m wondering, is he still playing inside the scheme of his defense as a team member or trying to do a bit more outside of the team concept in an attempt for the highlight tapes? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

I haven’t watched the games this year (call it my ratings protest against their kneeling protest). Where is he not better in his game mainly? Is it coverage or run defense? Do you see him loafing any or making poor reads? Is he trying to be more of a freelancer now in an attempt to make bigger plays while having DB in front of him now and he just isn’t making that flash play? I guess I’m wondering, is he still playing inside the scheme of his defense as a team member or trying to do a bit more outside of the team concept in an attempt for the highlight tapes? 

His pass coverage is much worse this season and that has hurt the team. He has still made plays here and there but in pass coverage he hasn't been the same. He isn't loafing IMO but just not making his usual big plays. 

[Jdubu]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

His pass coverage is much worse this season and that has hurt the team. He has still made plays here and there but in pass coverage he hasn't been the same. He isn't loafing IMO but just not making his usual big plays. 

That’s certainly odd. Sheer logic makes one think that having an all pro DT quality person playing in front of you now makes you have to be a little less focused on stopping both the run and the pass and be able to focus more on the passing game. Weird that he is struggling there. Honestly, I would have expected just the opposite to where he misses on the run because Buckner is there to clog the lanes and if one or two slips through, it catches DL more off guard than his passing target to come into his area. Be interesting to see someone really dive into his play on the year and spit out an analysis of it. I’m sure the team is as it will be a factor in his next contract negotiations. We just may never hear the teams true assessment of his game breakdowns. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

That’s certainly odd. Sheer logic makes one think that having an all pro DT quality person playing in front of you now makes you have to be a little less focused on stopping both the run and the pass and be able to focus more on the passing game. Weird that he is struggling there. Honestly, I would have expected just the opposite to where he misses on the run because Buckner is there to clog the lanes and if one or two slips through, it catches DL more off guard than his passing target to come into his area. Be interesting to see someone really dive into his play on the year and spit out an analysis of it. I’m sure the team is as it will be a factor in his next contract negotiations. We just may never hear the teams true assessment of his game breakdowns. 

Yeah @EastStreetposted a stat earlier in the thread about our LB pass coverage and we are giving up over a 100 passer rating as a LB unit compared to 63 last year and Leonard's isn't near as good. It is a bit odd because with Buck you would think our LB's as a whole would be better against pass coverage.

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah @EastStreetposted a stat earlier in the thread about our LB pass coverage and we are giving up over a 100 passer rating as a LB unit compared to 63 last year and Leonard's isn't near as good. It is a bit odd because with Buck you would think our LB's as a whole would be better against pass coverage.

 

I'm really starting to believe more an more we're playing more rip/liz this year (we started playing a bit more late last year). In short, it requires the LBs to have more hand off responsibility, instead of the simpler straight C2. Could be totally wrong though, but something is off, and it's hard for me to believe everyone is regressing. I've asked Walker in the mailbag, but it's a question that requires input from the position coaches I think, which he only gets access too once a month.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I'm really starting to believe more an more we're playing more rip/liz this year (we started playing a bit more late last year). In short, it requires the LBs to have more hand off responsibility, instead of the simpler straight C2. Could be totally wrong though, but something is off, and it's hard for me to believe everyone is regressing. I've asked Walker in the mailbag, but it's a question that requires input from the position coaches I think, which he only gets access too once a month.

I just hope Carr doesn't tear us up, he loves the short quick pass over the middle. Our LB's need to bring their A game today.

[NannyMcafee]

On 12/11/2020 at 10:59 PM, danlhart87 said:

The absence of a good quality LB in the past 20+ years has most of you giving Leonard the benefit of the doubt.

 

I never said he was a bad LB but I am wanting to see more dominant performances before Ballard throws a huge contract his way.

 

Perhaps he will take discount to stay but I doubt that.

 

BTW Ballard has preached for years about the trenches. He obviously will want to keep both Leonard and Nelson but if given the choice he will choose Nelson 10 times out of 10.

 

I have to disagree here. Leonard isn't making mistakes. He's doing his job pretty well... the only difference this year compared to last is hes not forcing as many turn overs. As many sacks. As many tackles. 

 

Another point I must make, his first 2 years he and Kenny Moore were the only 2 playmakers on this defense. 

 

Now you have Buckner making plays. 

Blackmon. 

Okereke. 

Along side Kenny and Darius. 

 

Can he make all the plays when other guys get there first? 

 

I think your perspective is skewed and you fail to see how many more plays are being made by other guys. 

 

An honorable mention... Rhoades is also making plays. 

 

What say you to that? 

 

The Colts are also hardly blitzing at all unlike his first 2 years. 

 

Hes not superman and I think thats what you want. Youre acting like he has regressed when in fact the entire defense has progressed resulting in a lack of opportunity for Darius. 

 

I think he will get an extension. And it will be reasonable. 

[NannyMcafee]

20 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I haven't posted yet on this particular thread and just saw your post, but yes, there is unsatisfied fandom when you have 20 years of combined Manning and Luck and only win one SB. People are still ticked off and take it out in other ways. I don't personally blame them. Manning goes to the Broncos and basically accomplishes what he accomplishes here in 14 years in 4 years on the Broncos. Then Luck retires and we are depending on one-year stopgaps such as Rivers with an unknown future.

 

Literally the only great thing about this team is Ballard, and unless we get a franchise QB, all the work he did the last 4 years will be useless because of Luck. If you were a fan since 98 like me, then the team has underperformed and has gotten weak results based on the quality of Manning and Luck as QBs. No two ways about it.

 

What you say really honestly brings up the question. 

 

Did Bill Pollan ruin Peytons career here in Indy? Look what he did with a defense. WhT he could have done here. This team could have been a dynasty behind the likes of Peyton who carried this team more often than not. 

 

Oh how I wish we had Ballard back then. 

 

 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I just hope Carr doesn't tear us up, he loves the short quick pass over the middle. Our LB's need to bring their A game today.

I feel ya. My fear as well. I'm worried about more that the LBs though. Gruden is pretty good at attacking weaknesses. I'm sure he's watched the film and attack us in the seam, and on the perimeter a lot if we're playing back. Waller is a monster, and I can see him being a problem for the LBs, Willis, and Moore. Ruggs and his 4.27 40 time is scary too. I can see them attacking Blackmon and RYS over the top. Renfro is solid as heck in the slot. And Agholor isn't slow (4.4). Hope the DL gets home a lot.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I feel ya. My fear as well. I'm worried about more that the LBs though. Gruden is pretty good at attacking weaknesses. I'm sure he's watched the film and attack us in the seam, and on the perimeter a lot if we're playing back. Waller is a monster, and I can see him being a problem for the LBs, Willis, and Moore. Ruggs and his 4.27 40 time is scary too. I can see them attacking Blackmon and RYS over the top. Renfro is solid as heck in the slot. And Agholor isn't slow (4.4). Hope the DL gets home a lot.

Maybe Carr will have a day like he had in Atlanta but they stopped the run, if we can shut the run down that will be huge. If not it opens up a lot for Carr.

[w87r]

16 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

I think your perspective is skewed and you fail to see how many more plays are being made by other guys. 

This is something I think is a big contributor, especially in the tackles dept.

 

Buckner is just a beast down there, not as many plays ard making it to the 2nd level becausd of his presence. Then couple that with the staff realizong that fact and letting Leonard roam back a little more than supplying additional run support. DL has still made many big plays.

 

He was hamstrung(literally) for a few weeks to and probably wasn't able to play up to full abilities. Up to that point I think he was playing just fine. We definitely missed his presence in that Browns game

 

 

I think he is fine and hope he doesn't go anywhere.

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Maybe Carr will have a day like he had in Atlanta but they stopped the run, if we can shut the run down that will be huge. If not it opens up a lot for Carr.

Atlanta is more aggressive on D than we are. They don't blitz as much as a team like Pitt or Balt, but they blitz a lot more than us. They are also ranked top 10 in pressure %, ahead of us. I need to go back an look at their stats for the last two games.

[DougDew]

Back to Leonard, I think he is a great player.  But I don't know what the price should be on a great player that plays a position that's not the highest valued positions.  If its about coverage, I think a hybrid SS could probably cover better.  I think tackles in the run game have a lot to do with the quality of the dline.

 

We also have a great player in Nelson.  Same dilemma, he's a G.

 

I'm always for paying great players to stick around, and nothing wrong with it if they play a lowered valued position.  The problem comes in when you also have to pay for a #1WR and a LT, and QB, and a corner.  And if Blackmon at S is a playmaker, he cost dollars too.  Some things will be staggered, but they will each cost a lot every year despite contract language.  Not so sure that off ball LBs can't be replaced by hybrid SSs in todays NFL, and in the direction the game is trending.

 

To defend these crossing routes, I'd like to look into those hybrid SS players at some point.  I suppose Willis is our best S at that now.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I have to disagree here. Leonard isn't making mistakes. He's doing his job pretty well... the only difference this year compared to last is hes not forcing as many turn overs. As many sacks. As many tackles. 

 

Another point I must make, his first 2 years he and Kenny Moore were the only 2 playmakers on this defense. 

 

Now you have Buckner making plays. 

Blackmon. 

Okereke. 

Along side Kenny and Darius. 

 

Can he make all the plays when other guys get there first? 

 

I think your perspective is skewed and you fail to see how many more plays are being made by other guys. 

 

An honorable mention... Rhoades is also making plays. 

 

What say you to that? 

 

The Colts are also hardly blitzing at all unlike his first 2 years. 

 

Hes not superman and I think thats what you want. Youre acting like he has regressed when in fact the entire defense has progressed resulting in a lack of opportunity for Darius. 

 

I think he will get an extension. And it will be reasonable. 

Leonard will be re-signed...but I will play devils advocate on your argument. Yes the Colts have other playmakers...but the Colts are actually pacing to finish with less sacks and TOs than last year. They could end up with more INTs though...if they get at least 3 over the final 4.

So would hope that those other plays would be in addition to Leonard...not in lieu of. 

I think big plays have huge variance anyways...and I am sure tackles are getting more distributed. But his individual pass coverage this year is a noticeable difference.

[Jaredfor3]

I wish the Colts would blitz Leonard more often. 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

22 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I haven't posted yet on this particular thread and just saw your post, but yes, there is unsatisfied fandom when you have 20 years of combined Manning and Luck and only win one SB. People are still ticked off and take it out in other ways. I don't personally blame them. Manning goes to the Broncos and basically accomplishes what he accomplishes here in 14 years in 4 years on the Broncos. Then Luck retires and we are depending on one-year stopgaps such as Rivers with an unknown future.

 

Literally the only great thing about this team is Ballard, and unless we get a franchise QB, all the work he did the last 4 years will be useless because of Luck. If you were a fan since 98 like me, then the team has underperformed and has gotten weak results based on the quality of Manning and Luck as QBs. No two ways about it.

 

I've seen you post this kind of stuff before.  And I used to agree with you to a point.  As a Colts fan, I wanted/expected more success when we had Manning.

 

But I have to remind myself, and so I'm reminding you as well:  This is the NFL.  The league of Parity.  There is more parity in the NFL than any other professional sports league.  And that's what makes it so special.

 

An Aaron Rodgers-led Packers team can be in the NFCCG one year, and miss the playoffs the next.  A Tom Brady-less Pats team can beat a team 45-0 one week, and get beat 24-3 the next.  Teams can go from worst-to-first or vice-versa every year.  Entire divisions can go from being the best division in the league to the worst.  Just look at the NFC East this year.  The teams with the best records in the NFC East have the same record as the worst teams in the NFC West AND North.

 

I can look back at the Manning years with hindsight and perspective and realize that what the Colts accomplished during that time, with the amazing competition in the AFC at that time (the Pats, Steelers, Ravens, and Chargers were all contenders almost every year with multiple HoFers on each of those teams), and I can say that I'm satisfied with the success the Colts were able to achieve.  Besides the Pats and Steelers, the Colts were the MOST successful team of that era, and let's be honest, the Pats success is unprecedented, involved cheating, and will go unmatched for all time outside of my Madden Colts Franchise .

 

"Weak results" is an absolute insult to everyone that was part of that success, and you should be ashamed to have that opinion.