Trade Deadline, who do you want....

[Coffeedrinker]

14 hours ago, Rally5 said:

JJ Watt looks like he needs a change of scenery.  That would be fun!

Oh man, A dline with Houston, Buckner, Stewart and Watt would be unbelievable.

 

Unfortunately, that is a pipe dream, but what a dream.

[chad72]

34 minutes ago, krunk said:

So what happens with Cox who is better than just about all of them except Ertz.

 

Mo can step into the Doyle or Burton role once one of them is let go after this year. Burton was signed just for 1 year, right? Isn't Doyle a free agent too after this year?

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Mo can step into the Doyle or Burton role once one of them is let go after this year. Burton was signed just for 1 year, right? Isn't Doyle a free agent too after this year?

No. Doyle in UC next year and till 2023. Mo and Burton will be FAs.

 

Mo is really unlike either TE. Actually, the 3 are very different individually. 

 

Mo - Prototypical TE size, detached and dynamic downfield threat. 

Burton - short for a TE (6-2), was a QB/HB/TE in college. More slot/HB than TE imo

Doyle - well rounded, Prototypical TE size with good hands, good routes, and good blocker.

[Fisticuffs111]

Has Ballard ever made an in season trade? I mean, after the preseason that is?

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Has Ballard ever made an in season trade? I mean, after the preseason that is?

Not while in Indy

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2020_trades.htm

[chad72]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

No. Doyle in UC next year and till 2023. Mo and Burton will be FAs.

 

Mo is really unlike either TE. Actually, the 3 are very different individually. 

 

Mo - Prototypical TE size, detached and dynamic downfield threat. 

Burton - short for a TE (6-2), was a QB/HB/TE in college. More slot/HB than TE imo

Doyle - well rounded, Prototypical TE size with good hands, good routes, and good blocker.

 

Mo's usage and snaps are puzzling then. They should use him like Doyle more because Mo is a good blocker too.

[EastStreet]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

Mo's usage and snaps are puzzling then. They should use him like Doyle more because Mo is a good blocker too.

Mo got heavy usage weeks 2 and 3, and more or less showcased in week 2 when Doyle was out (Burton was out too). That's the week he was 5/6 with 111 yards, and had those really nice vertical sail route catches. Doyle was back the next week, but he still had good snaps, just only 3 targets and 50 yards. In week 4 when Burton came back (we forced way too much to Burton), his snaps decreased again and only had one catch for 13 yards.

 

As far as use, not sure Mo is capable of the short routes that Doyle is so good at. Not saying he can't, but Doyle is just very good at short route running, and getting separation. Mo's biggest flashes were more vertical routes than short or cut routes.  

 

IMO, we have a very nice 3some of TEs, with very different skill sets. All are good at blocking. I'd just like to see more Mo on those vertical targets. That's why I'm not overly concerned about TE, or feel the need to grab an older guy like Ertz. I wouldn't complain mind you either, but just don't want to give up much capital. All about ROI, and I think we have a good 3, just need to vary their use better.

[Dogg63]

22 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

No. Doyle in UC next year and till 2023. Mo and Burton will be FAs.

More specifically:

Doyle will be UFA in 2023

Burton will be UFA in 2021 

Mo will be RFA in 2021

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

More specifically:

Doyle will be UFA in 2023

Burton will be UFA in 2021 

Mo will be RFA in 2021

Was really hoping they'd extend Mo going into the season. REALLY REALLY hoped they would after game 2 lol. I know he's restricted, and we can match, I just don't want to play around with him. He's obviously got untapped upside. Having two bigs like him, and Pittman, that can get vertical, is a nightmare mismatch for Ds.

 

Loved what Burton did last week, but hated what he did vs Chicago. He's a great slot type guy, just doesn't give us much more at TE given his 6-2 height. IMO, he'll be best used as a situational guy depending on Ds.

[csmopar]

My money is on us doing absolutely nothing, not getting anyone and not trading anyone(looking at you Brissett)

[Dark Superman]

Julio Jones.

[richard pallo]

 Walker for Gallup could help both teams. 

[danlhart87]

29 minutes ago, csmopar said:

My money is on us doing absolutely nothing, not getting anyone and not trading anyone(looking at you Brissett)

[danlhart87]

...

[krunk]

We need 1 more deep threat. I dont think thats Thielen game

[danlhart87]

Just now, krunk said:

We need 1 more deep threat. I dont think thats Thielen game

he's excellent in the red zone #1 in the league

[PeterBowman]

I'm wondering instead of trading FOR someone, that I bet the Colts would trade a player for picks. 

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

I'm wondering instead of trading FOR someone, that I bet the Colts would trade a player for picks. 

You mean like the 50000 post here that people think we will trade Brissett to Cowboys for pick?

[Nickster]

16 hours ago, Dunk said:

Sounds good to me, but doubt they are available, although Houston let Hopkins go, so I guess anything can happen.

Bill O Brien is not in the league anymore.  I don't think that kind of trade will happen again!

[chad72]

24 minutes ago, krunk said:

We need 1 more deep threat. I dont think thats Thielen game

 

That is why I suggested Curtis Samuel. He can fulfill a variety of roles. 

 

Another speedy guy off the top of my head is that Pringle guy from KC Chiefs - buried behind Hill, Watkins, Hardman and Robinson. When they had a ton of injuries a year ago, he performed well, IMO, running good routes. Right now, because of his speed and depth chart, he is used as KR occasionally and on special teams mainly.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

 

As far as use, not sure Mo is capable of the short routes that Doyle is so good at. Not saying he can't, but Doyle is just very good at short route running, and getting separation. Mo's biggest flashes were more vertical routes than short or cut routes.  

 

 

Frankly, I think TEs get pigeon holed into roles by coaches.  I'm sure Doyle doesn't go down the field as much because of speed, but if Mo is thought of as the vertical guy, I just don't think guys like him get many reps with the shorter patterns, but not because he can't do it.

[PeterBowman]

28 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

You mean like the 50000 post here that people think we will trade Brissett to Cowboys for pick?

Maybe not Brissett....but if something does happen that's what I'm thinking...that the Colts will trade away a player.

[Indyfan4life]

Yeah... I imagine we do nothing.

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Frankly, I think TEs get pigeon holed into roles by coaches.  I'm sure Doyle doesn't go down the field as much because of speed, but if Mo is thought of as the vertical guy, I just don't think guys like him get many reps with the shorter patterns, but not because he can't do it.

Just spit balling, but I think they see Doyle as the unquestioned #1 TE. I think they still see Mo as an unfinished project even though he's balled out when called upon. And I think Reich sees Burton as a multi-tool guy, not just a TE. Perhaps Mo's usage is also limited simply because Reich doesn't do a lot of vertical stuff.... Regardless, it was obvious that Rivers and Mo had good chemistry. I just hope it's not forgotten. 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Mo got heavy usage weeks 2 and 3, and more or less showcased in week 2 when Doyle was out (Burton was out too). That's the week he was 5/6 with 111 yards, and had those really nice vertical sail route catches. Doyle was back the next week, but he still had good snaps, just only 3 targets and 50 yards. In week 4 when Burton came back (we forced way too much to Burton), his snaps decreased again and only had one catch for 13 yards.

 

As far as use, not sure Mo is capable of the short routes that Doyle is so good at. Not saying he can't, but Doyle is just very good at short route running, and getting separation. Mo's biggest flashes were more vertical routes than short or cut routes.  

 

IMO, we have a very nice 3some of TEs, with very different skill sets. All are good at blocking. I'd just like to see more Mo on those vertical targets. That's why I'm not overly concerned about TE, or feel the need to grab an older guy like Ertz. I wouldn't complain mind you either, but just don't want to give up much capital. All about ROI, and I think we have a good 3, just need to vary their use better.

 

The sudden shift in snaps and (more importantly) targets from MAC was surprising. They definitely started forcing Burton into the game plan. I don't know if Reich was ever even asked about...I guess with MAC hurt...it doesn't really matter.

 

Burton had a nice game last week...but he's a dump off guy. CIN is (arguably) the worst team against TEs...pass coverage is optional for their Ss. I wish MAC could have played...would have been fun to watch. Hopefully he gets back soon.

[stitches]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Mo's usage and snaps are puzzling then. They should use him like Doyle more because Mo is a good blocker too.

I don't have access to the all-22 tape so I can't say what the reason is, but it's possible there is a reason outside of Reich and/or Rivers. For example, I am not sure how well he runs routes and how often he actually beats man coverage one on one. Rivers has never had trouble targeting TEs... in fact he loves targeting TEs. This was the same with Luck and Mo wasn't getting tons of targets with Luck either. 

 

No idea... I'd love for someone with access to all-22 to break down if there is something specific to Mo himself that's stopping him from taking the next step as a receiver. 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

That is why I suggested Curtis Samuel. He can fulfill a variety of roles. 

 

Another speedy guy off the top of my head is that Pringle guy from KC Chiefs - buried behind Hill, Watkins, Hardman and Robinson. When they had a ton of injuries a year ago, he performed well, IMO, running good routes. Right now, because of his speed and depth chart, he is used as KR occasionally and on special teams mainly.

 

Samuel seems pretty similar to Campbell in a lot of ways. I am leery of OSU players though.

[stitches]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

I doubt they do it with Turay coming back. Ballard usually stands pat at the trade deadline. The Mike Evans thing is interesting though.

Are we sure Turay is going to come back and if he does that he will be in good enough football shape to play meaningful snaps? This injury has been quite bad it seems... it's more than a year already and it seems like he's still not quite ready. This is not a knock on him... just unfortunate circumstances, but it's possible we might not get much from him this year... or ever...  

[shasta519]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

I don't have access to the all-22 tape so I can't say what the reason is, but it's possible there is a reason outside of Reich and/or Rivers. For example, I am not sure how well he runs routes and how often he actually beats man coverage one on one. Rivers has never had trouble targeting TEs... in fact he loves targeting TEs. This was the same with Luck and Mo wasn't getting tons of targets with Luck either. 

 

No idea... I'd love for someone with access to all-22 to break down if there is something specific to Mo himself that's stopping him from taking the next step as a receiver. 

 

He was wide open in that MIN game...at least 2-3 times. But with his size and massive hands...I am not even sure it matters if he is separating well. Doyle and Burton are both running 2x as many routes as him per game. Part of that is due to snap discrepancy...but even when he's on the field...it seems like he is blocking more than running routes. 

 

The only thing I can think of is that he got banged up at some point after that MIN game...and his usage decreased. Otherwise...it's pretty questionable. He is much more efficient than Doyle and (especially) Burton. And he's an RFA after this year...so you would think they would like to expand his role further to see what they have.

[shasta519]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

Are we sure Turay is going to come back and if he does that he will be in good enough football shape to play meaningful snaps? This injury has been quite bad it seems... it's more than a year already and it seems like he's still not quite ready. This is not a knock on him... just unfortunate circumstances, but it's possible we might not get much from him this year... or ever...  

 

Depending on Turay seems like a dubious proposition. He has to get healthy...AND stay healthy. The most recent news I heard was that he could be activated off PUP but would still be a few weeks away.

[stitches]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

My money is on us doing absolutely nothing, not getting anyone and not trading anyone(looking at you Brissett)

Yep, if I had to bet, I'd bet on that one... 

[EastStreet]

49 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

The sudden shift in snaps and (more importantly) targets from MAC was surprising. They definitely started forcing Burton into the game plan. I don't know if Reich was ever even asked about...I guess with MAC hurt...it doesn't really matter.

 

Burton had a nice game last week...but he's a dump off guy. CIN is (arguably) the worst team against TEs...pass coverage is optional for their Ss. I wish MAC could have played...would have been fun to watch. Hopefully he gets back soon.

I agree on all of the above. I also feel perhaps Reich may feel that he needs to show Burton was a good addition, as it was likely him that pushed for the pick up. And yes, the Chicago forcing to Burton was a bad look, especially after the first few attempts looked really bad. Cinci was much easier. I think Burton will be great situationally, I just hope we don't try to force feed him every game.

[EastStreet]

53 minutes ago, stitches said:

I don't have access to the all-22 tape so I can't say what the reason is, but it's possible there is a reason outside of Reich and/or Rivers. For example, I am not sure how well he runs routes and how often he actually beats man coverage one on one. Rivers has never had trouble targeting TEs... in fact he loves targeting TEs. This was the same with Luck and Mo wasn't getting tons of targets with Luck either. 

 

No idea... I'd love for someone with access to all-22 to break down if there is something specific to Mo himself that's stopping him from taking the next step as a receiver. 

Mo was running really beautiful corner post routes.

 

I disagree that Luck didn't target Moe. It's more accurate to say that Ebron (who wasn't a good blocker), was the one running early read routes, and Mo was left blocking most of the time.  He only got substantial snaps in 6 games in 2018, and didn't play in 7 games at all.  It is true his catch % wasn't great that year, but his y/c was really nice for a TE (19y/c)

[TonyBungee]

Evans seems like he'd be a better fit with Rivers than with Brady, but it seems hard for a WR to switch teams mid-season and be productive.  At this point I'd say the most likely move is for depth on either line.  I could see Dallas reaching out about JB, but unless another team gets into a bidding war, I don't see anyone offering the Colts enough to let him go.  

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, TonyBungee said:

Evans seems like he'd be a better fit with Rivers than with Brady, but it seems hard for a WR to switch teams mid-season and be productive.  At this point I'd say the most likely move is for depth on either line.  I could see Dallas reaching out about JB, but unless another team gets into a bidding war, I don't see anyone offering the Colts enough to let him go.  

 

WRs and TEs both are typically tough to add mid season. Same with DB and LB. 

Best adds are DL, RBs, and other positions that can pin their ears back and just play. 

 

[dw49]

8 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

The last in-season trade we made was trading a future 1st for Trent Richardson in 2013...

 

Yes , the famous "rolling ball of butcher knives."  

[chad72]

Carlos Dunlap just traded to Seahawks.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/10/28/seahawks-trade-for-carlos-dunlap/

 

[danlhart87]

43 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Carlos Dunlap just traded to Seahawks.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/10/28/seahawks-trade-for-carlos-dunlap/

 

Great pickup for them

[Korey]

I don't see CB going after anyone IMO, seems to me he is either stubborn or too much ego to admit that his team can improve in season. A trade for either a DE or WR would help this team right away. 

[richard pallo]

Now that it looks like Dallas is starting to position itself for next year I think a phone call to discuss a trade for Sammy Watkins would make sense.  People have mentioned Julio Jones as a target but Watkins fits the need as well and Ballard knows him from his KC days.  I don't see Watkins having a big impact for Dallas this year and they have enough good young receivers to fill his spot.  I don't see him costing a 1st rd pick.  Worth throwing a line out in his direction IMO.