Colts can be 6th in the playoff race after this weekend (merge)

[Myles]

28 minutes ago, The Fish said:

It's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of common sense, a tie is better than a loss. 

 

I win is better than a tie.

[ThorstenDenmark]

I don't think the colts make the playoffs this year.

 

We finish 9-7, as we lose to texans away and to the cowboys.

 

sorry to spoil it

[Myles]

40 minutes ago, cbear said:

I thought it was a great call then and still do now.  I doubt motivation had anything to do with the decision.  He wanted to win the game.  Does his overall mindset affect the team?  Hard to think it doesn't. 

 

And if we're playing with the time machine, who's to say everything turns out the same and we end up 5-4-1 or 6-4?  I'll take the sure thing and am very happy where we are now. 

Yep.   A butterfly effect of sorts.  

To me, Reichs decisions have brought us to where we are now.  

[krunk]

11 minutes ago, ThorstenDenmark said:

I don't think the colts make the playoffs this year.

 

We finish 9-7, as we lose to texans away and to the cowboys.

 

sorry to spoil it

We won't lose to either one.

[shasta519]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

I defended Reich's 4th down decision against the Texans, and still understand why he did what he did, but it's worth noting that with a tie, we'd be in 6th place right now at 5-4-1.

 

They still have to take care of business though to stay there...which includes beating HOU and getting one game closer to the AFCS title. I doubt that tie even comes into play.

 

On the flip side, if they convert and win the game the Colts are 6-4 right now and in the driver's seat. I would make that call again...under those circumstances. 

[The Fish]

I guess I'll address the "going for the win" spin on this. 

That's fine, but from recollection, Lucks reaction to the whole thing was "WE LOVED IT", so it most certainly did rally the troops and it also defied common sense. Going for it on 4th on your side of the field? The down sides are obvious and were realized in that game.

And winning is better than a tie, but the circumstance didn't suggest that winning was just on the other side of that first down- a tie was. And with a punt? A tie. There was a way to lose though and that's what happened. 

I'll live with the move, but I didn't like it and I can't imagine it'll happen again, because (drumroll) a tie is better than a loss. Especially in division.

 

Now here's the middle of the road point. It matters less if they don't get punked by the Jets.

And let's see them take care of Miami.

[The Fish]

16 minutes ago, ThorstenDenmark said:

I don't think the colts make the playoffs this year.

 

We finish 9-7, as we lose to texans away and to the cowboys.

 

sorry to spoil it

Neither of those eliminate the Colts if other stuff bounces the Colts way.

 

[The Fish]

22 minutes ago, Myles said:

 

To me, Reichs decisions have brought us to where we are now.  

Uhh...

Why are we so excited about that loss? I guess we don't have to peel this back too much, but I clearly am missing something. 

 

I think Costanzo and Mack are a bigger reason why the Colts are here now than one boneheaded move made weeks ago by Reich, myself.

 

[braveheartcolt]

12 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I guess I'll address the "going for the win" spin on this. 

That's fine, but from recollection, Lucks reaction to the whole thing was "WE LOVED IT", so it most certainly did rally the troops and it also defied common sense. Going for it on 4th on your side of the field? The down sides are obvious and were realized in that game.

And winning is better than a tie, but the circumstance didn't suggest that winning was just on the other side of that first down- a tie was. And with a punt? A tie. There was a way to lose though and that's what happened. 

I'll live with the move, but I didn't like it and I can't imagine it'll happen again, because (drumroll) a tie is better than a loss. Especially in division.

 

Now here's the middle of the road point. It matters less if they don't get punked by the Jets.

And let's see them take care of Miami.

Surely we didn't get punked by the Jets? Not after the genius (losing) management decision the week before? No qualms with Frank, but all the nonsensical rhetoric about it changing the dressing room tone and making us a better team for it is just baloney. We have improved because of the changes to the Line, and a big improvement in our catching. If these very visible improvements are due to Frank having the guts to go for the win, then I'm a Bolivian chess player with a bad touch of gout.

[shasta519]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

We won't lose to either one.

 

I agree...but the DAL game is the only that somewhat scares me. Not only because of the team...but because of how it could play out.

 

I said weeks ago...I still think DAL wins that division...and the Alex Smith injury makes it very likely now.

 

Scenario 1

I think DAL will beat WAS to take back the tiebreaker and then somehow beat NO...setting up a huge game against PHI...who is still only one back after beating the NYG and WAS.

 

With PHI heading into a showdown with the LAR the following week...DAL can essentially bury them win a win and put themselves in the drivers seat for the division.

 

This makes the DAL/IND much less important...assuming PHI is going to lose to the LAR. And it allows DAL to lose AND then clinch at home the following weekend.

 

Scenario 2

But if PHI shows up and wins that DAL game and/or loses to NO...then that DAL/IND game becomes incredibly important because DAL can gain back that game if PHI loses to the LAR.

 

But on the flip side, it also means PHI will still be in and going all out against HOU the following week.

 

This will be fun to watch. The NFC East and AFC South could be on a collision course in the last quarter of the seasno.

 

It would probably be in the Colts best interest to have it play it out like Scenario 1...but they both could be beneficial. Colts just need to keep taking care of business...and maybe it won't matter.

[shasta519]

14 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Surely we didn't get punked by the Jets? Not after the genius (losing) management decision the week before? No qualms with Frank, but all the nonsensical rhetoric about it changing the dressing room tone and making us a better team for it is just baloney. We have improved because of the changes to the Line, and a big improvement in our catching. If these very visible improvements are due to Frank having the guts to go for the win, then I'm a Bolivian chess player with a bad touch of gout.

 

Yeah...I don't think there was some huge anciallary benefit to it...but I agree with trying to steal a win there. 

[Hoose]

25 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I agree...but the DAL game is the only that somewhat scares me. Not only because of the team...but because of how it could play out.

 

I said weeks ago...I still think DAL wins that division...and the Alex Smith injury makes it very likely now.

 

Scenario 1

I think DAL will beat WAS to take back the tiebreaker and then somehow beat NO...setting up a huge game against PHI...who is still only one back after beating the NYG and WAS.

 

With PHI heading into a showdown with the LAR the following week...DAL can essentially bury them win a win and put themselves in the drivers seat for the division.

 

This makes the DAL/IND much less important...assuming PHI is going to lose to the LAR. And it allows DAL to lose AND then clinch at home the following weekend.

 

Scenario 2

But if PHI shows up and wins that DAL game and/or loses to NO...then that DAL/IND game becomes incredibly important because DAL can gain back that game if PHI loses to the LAR.

 

But on the flip side, it also means PHI will still be in and going all out against HOU the following week.

 

This will be fun to watch. The NFC East and AFC South could be on a collision course in the last quarter of the seasno.

 

It would probably be in the Colts best interest to have it play it out like Scenario 1...but they both could be beneficial. Colts just need to keep taking care of business...and maybe it won't matter.

Dallas will not beat New Orleans. But I do agree that the Dallas-Colts game will be tight. The Cowboys have an improving Defense, one of the better in the league. It will be fun to watch. 

[ThorstenDenmark]

11 minutes ago, Hoose said:

Dallas will not beat New Orleans. But I do agree that the Dallas-Colts game will be tight. The Cowboys have an improving Defense, one of the better in the league. It will be fun to watch. 

Agreed

 

I also have the Giants game as a pretty big and tough one. ELI i playing for his career right now, and they have things going

[LJpalmbeacher2]

6 hours ago, Bluesmith said:

 

I don't understand this logic at all.  These are professional athletes, getting paid well to be motivated to play the game of football.  Why in the hell do they need to be galvanized by a boneheaded coaching decision?  They are expected and compensated to be professional football players.  

 

I love Reich and Ballard and the Colts, but I won't turn a blind eye to a boneheaded call when I see it.  And to suggest that the players are some kind of * millenials that need special gestures to motivate them to play is getting old.

 

 

Well said.

There's a difference of being aggressive or reckless.

[Crunked]

I don't know if the team needed the aggressive call in OT, but the fan base did....if we don't make the playoffs we have more than enough places to point to for the shoulda woulda coulda game....Philly, Cincy, Jets, Texans........and if we end up pointing, it means a loss we haven't had yet....., which dagger did the deed? At that point, its a death by a thousand cuts....

[2006Coltsbestever]

The 6th spot is very doable, I can see that happening especially if we do beat Miami like we should. Winning the Division will take alot of help from other teams to beat Houston.

[BOTT]

4 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

We had them on the ropes on our 1st OT drive, but punted on. 4th & 2. That's when Reich should have pulled the trigger...

I could be wrong, but the colts kicked a field goal on that drive.

[Four2itus]

I freaking LOVED the team going for that win. And I hope to hell they do it again in the same situation. Pointing to that event as a cause of making the payoffs or not is rubbish to me. Every year there is a team that probably shouldn't be there, and a team isn't there that should be. 

 

Funny how fans lauded Manning for waiving the ST unit back off the field and loved his strength of conviction by going for it....and use hindsight to see this years event as something else. Everyone has a right to their rules abiding opinion. Mine is that Frank did the right thing for the mental health of the locker room....record be damned. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

I freaking LOVED the team going for that win. And I hope to hell they do it again in the same situation. Pointing to that event as a cause of making the payoffs or not is rubbish to me. Every year there is a team that probably shouldn't be there, and a team isn't there that should be. 

 

Funny how fans lauded Manning for waiving the ST unit back off the field and loved his strength of conviction by going for it....and use hindsight to see this years event as something else. Everyone has a right to their rules abiding opinion. Mine is that Frank did the right thing for the mental health of the locker room....record be damned. 

I agree I loved the call then and still love it now. What Frank did was gain his players trust - that goes a long way. It may cost us the Division but I think as of now I would bet that we make the Playoffs anyway. As long as we make the Playoffs that is the key.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I don't bother with worrying about it.  We're in the thick of it, and 6 games to decide.  And one of our games is vs Texans.  That is where my focus is, and Colts are rolling along...

[BOTT]

Bad call if the colts had been 3-1, but they were 1-3.  

[Myles]

3 hours ago, The Fish said:

Uhh...

Why are we so excited about that loss? I guess we don't have to peel this back too much, but I clearly am missing something. 

 

I think Costanzo and Mack are a bigger reason why the Colts are here now than one boneheaded move made weeks ago by Reich, myself.

 

 Not excited.  Just supportive of the decision.  

[strt182]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The 6th spot is very doable, I can see that happening especially if we do beat Miami like we should. Winning the Division will take alot of help from other teams to beat Houston.

Well seeings how TN plays Houston this week. IF and its a big IF TN can beat Houston and we win the other divisonal games we will be in safely. If we win out we will be in I think no matter what happens with anybody else.   We really want TN to beat Houston this week. 

[strt182]

Man the end of the season is going to have alot of play on the playoffs in the AFC (thats all i worry about). There are alot of head to head matchups of playoff possible teams. But at the end of the day the Colts just need to worry about taking care of their business and if we can do that we are in the playoffs. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, strt182 said:

Well seeings how TN plays Houston this week. IF and its a big IF TN can beat Houston and we win the other divisonal games we will be in safely. If we win out we will be in I think no matter what happens with anybody else.   We really want TN to beat Houston this week. 

I am one of the bigger optimist in here and very positive but winning out is a long shot. Asking us to win 10 games in a row is a real long shot. We may have a hiccup or 2 along the way which 9-7 could very well get us in the Playoffs. Our schedule says we could win them all but winning 10 straight rarely happens with great teams in a season. I guess lets just take it 1 game at a time and see what happens 

[rockywoj]

11 hours ago, Superman said:

I defended Reich's 4th down decision against the Texans, and still understand why he did what he did, but it's worth noting that with a tie, we'd be in 6th place right now at 5-4-1.

I didn’t support it and the Colts current situation is exactly why.   Colts would currently be only one game back of the Texans and, all things being equal, beating the Texans in the next game would make the Colts division winners.   This is EXACTLY why I viewed his decision at the time as his first coaching blunder. Love him, but still really dislike that decision.

[braveheartcolt]

5 hours ago, BOTT said:

I could be wrong, but the colts kicked a field goal on that drive.

Yep. FG'S don't win it on the first possession however. If he wanted to show aggression, that was the time to do it. Just my opinion at the time, and I stand by it. In the long run I expect it won't make a diference.

[braveheartcolt]

4 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I don't bother with worrying about it.  We're in the thick of it, and 6 games to decide.  And one of our games is vs Texans.  That is where my focus is, and Colts are rolling along...

You can dispute and debate a decision without worrying about it. I certainly am not worried about it, I just thought it was a rare bad call by Frank. No more no less. But the notion that it galvanised the dressing room is ludicrous.

[Goatface Killah]

10 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Another way too look at it is it made us take a step back. Throwing away effectively a point vs our arch rivals, when we played so well and gave so much to get back into the game. To support this unpopular view, we potentially played our worst 2 games right after....

 

I just cannot see throwing away divisional impetus as a moral boosting and galvanising team elixir.

Frank didn't make a decision to "throw away" anything. He decided to go for a win in a crucial situation and we didnt get it. Nothing more. If Luck throws a good pass there, maybe we win that game and the situation is even better? Then, it is a genius decision. The line cant be that fine between genius and idiocy.

 

Has it hurt us in the standings? Yes 

 

Could it have helped? Yes

 

Its not about immediate results, or a single coaching decision. Its about setting the tone and creating a culture, very early in your coaching tenure.

 

 

[braveheartcolt]

45 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Frank didn't make a decision to "throw away" anything. He decided to go for a win in a crucial situation and we didnt get it. Nothing more. If Luck throws a good pass there, maybe we win that game and the situation is even better? Then, it is a genius decision. The line cant be that fine between genius and idiocy.

 

Has it hurt us in the standings? Yes 

 

Could it have helped? Yes

 

Its not about immediate results, or a single coaching decision. Its about setting the tone and creating a culture, very early in your coaching tenure.

 

 

So what is this tone exactly? By making this call, Leonard now makes these tackles he would have otherwised missed? When he sees a RB heading towards him, he thinks, 'Frank went for the win, I will make this tackle'? Adam thinks before he makes a game winning FG, 'I must make this, as Frank had the guts to go for the win'?

 

If a 'manager' has to make such decisions to set the tone for his team, it doesn't say much for his day to day leadership. This is all garbage. I don't mind him going for the win, what I do object to is this fake benefit we apparently got from it.

 

We see it differently, that is all. 

[Superman]

3 hours ago, rockywoj said:

I didn’t support it and the Colts current situation is exactly why.   Colts would currently be only one game back of the Texans and, all things being equal, beating the Texans in the next game would make the Colts division winners.   This is EXACTLY why I viewed his decision at the time as his first coaching blunder. Love him, but still really dislike that decision.

 

I wasn't worried about the standings in Week 4, and I wouldn't look back on that no matter how this season turns out. I think losing winnable games is the bigger issue, by far.

[braveheartcolt]

24 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I wasn't worried about the standings in Week 4, and I wouldn't look back on that no matter how this season turns out. I think losing winnable games is the bigger issue, by far.

Agreed. And losing a tie-able game is not great either. About 50% less bad I'd say.

[our_dbs_rock]

After years of Pagano playing it safe, I'm surprised anyone here is upset the call to go for the win than to play for the tie.

[Narcosys]

15 hours ago, The Fish said:

I'll piggy back on your thread to point out that the four letter network got the playoff machine out for this year. Good times.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playoffs/machine

 

I've got the Colts in. Oddly quite a lot of what's going to happen hinges on what happens when the Bolts play the Bengals. I also see Green Bay getting in, because you can't kill them.

 

I've got the colts in as well, but I think the Giants game in week 16 will be the deciding game to really watch. Houston still takes the division, but we get in at 6th or 5th, depending on the week 17 Chargers vs Broncos game.

 

I'm so glad the playoff machine is back.

[LockeDown]

Franks decision could absolutely galvanize a YOUNG professional team which we are and it did.  A mature team?  Maybe not.  I personally think it was for Andrew Lucks sake. Reich showed and shows supermen confidence in Luck and you can tell

[AwesomeAustin]

Should have, would have, could have.  Going for the win against Houston is just one on the list of things the Colts did wrong in the first 6 games.  We had several chances to win games and predictably like a young team, we failed to capitalize.  No use arguing bc I still think the colts will lose 2-3 games of the remaining 6. We can’t start 1-5 and point back to one call that cost the season.  We would still need to go 9-1 or 8-2 in the final 10 games  which is incredibly hard. We are not an elite team and to expect that is craziness. 

[Jdubu]

17 hours ago, Luck is Good said:

The decision by Reich was the right one. You play to win the game. I’m glad the Colts have a coach who plays to win the game

At 1-3, it was the right call to make for a young team with a quality QB and with the mindset of understanding you are a team trying to figure out who you are. We know now, we aren’t a passive Pagano team. If this team was 3-1, perhaps the tie was the right call to make but I had no problem with the call then and I still don’t. The situation the team was in made it acceptable then. We had to take a risk to steal that win and hope to catch fire. I have no regrets from that even though we may have had the tie and a game ahead of where we are with regards to Texans. Not many of us fans expected anything from this team for the playoffs anyway once the season started anyways so it’s reasonable to have expected next year was the start of playoff push. Anything we do this year towards a playoff push is just house money. 

[Luck is Good]

8 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

At 1-3, it was the right call to make for a young team with a quality QB and with the mindset of understanding you are a team trying to figure out who you are. We know now, we aren’t a passive Pagano team. If this team was 3-1, perhaps the tie was the right call to make but I had no problem with the call then and I still don’t. The situation the team was in made it acceptable then. We had to take a risk to steal that win and hope to catch fire. I have no regrets from that even though we may have had the tie and a game ahead of where we are with regards to Texans. Not many of us fans expected anything from this team for the playoffs anyway once the season started anyways so it’s reasonable to have expected next year was the start of playoff push. Anything we do this year towards a playoff push is just house money. 

Who’d have known the Texans were going to win seven straight games too. Ties in a professional football game shouldn’t even exist. My team and I could play 70 minutes of football and a winner not be decided. Absolutely not. I’d rather lose than tie. If my team and I didn’t play well enough to win, then we deserve to lose

[ColtsBlueFL]

7 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

You can dispute and debate a decision without worrying about it. I certainly am not worried about it, I just thought it was a rare bad call by Frank. No more no less.

{snip}

 

Reminds me of the story of a school teacher that put up 10 multiplication problems on the board.  The first had an incorrect answer, all of the following were correct.  The class was snickering .  The teacher then asked what the issue was?  The students say you got the first problem wrong.  The teacher said, Yes, I did it in purpose to demonstrate something. 

Often folks won't recognize the 9 things you did right and focus on the one thing you got wrong.

 

I get it, and it's a talking point.  What did it do for Frank is where I'd like to explore...

 

6 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

So what is this tone exactly?

 

Execute better?  Plays are devised, game planned, and practiced to succeed. (I'm fairly sure that play itself was practiced in the Thursday 3rd down and RedZone practice session). The coach believed they would succeed and called it.  They did not.  I'm certain Reich didn't have a mindset to lose the game and called it because he knew they would fail, but the opposite. I'll bet the players feel they let the coach(es) down and were motivated to find a way to continue to improve.

 

6 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

By making this call, Leonard now makes these tackles he would have otherwised missed? When he sees a RB heading towards him, he thinks, 'Frank went for the win, I will make this tackle'? Adam thinks before he makes a game winning FG, 'I must make this, as Frank had the guts to go for the win'?

 

No simpler.  It means they can play (their assignment) fast without overthinking it. Play to win, not play to 'not lose'.  Even if they sometimes still make a mistake. (and they will)

 

6 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

If a 'manager' has to make such decisions to set the tone for his team, it doesn't say much for his day to day leadership. This is all garbage. I don't mind him going for the win, what I do object to is this fake benefit we apparently got from it.

 

We see it differently, that is all. 

 

He didn't do it to set a tone, he was trying to go "Herm Edwards" on it, but missed -

 

 

BTW: At the time, I was wanting AV to kick the PAT and settle for the draw.

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

32 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Who’d have known the Texans were going to win seven straight games too.

 

Well, I felt they could unseat Jax for the division crown if Deshaun Watson returned to his form in 2017, where he was both an MVP and O-ROY candidate before getting injured. (taking over very early for Tom Savage)

 

32 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Ties in a professional football game shouldn’t even exist. My team and I could play 70 minutes of football and a winner not be decided. Absolutely not. I’d rather lose than tie. If my team and I didn’t play well enough to win, then we deserve to lose

 

I can appreciate that sentiment.  But since ties do happen in the NFL, there may be instances where settling for that might be prudent.