The "PAINFUL" truth....

[bluephantom87]

The bottom didn't just fall from under the Colts but have been brewing for a few seasons now. The "mirage" started from the appearance in the AFCCG a few years ago in which the Colts were destroyed by the Pats and didn't look like they belonged on the same field or even in the same league as the Pats BUT the Colts looked outclassed ALL season that year with huge blowout looses against the TOP tier teams. Instead of addressing the issues they drank their own Kool-aide and went ALL in signing a bunch of washed up has been players past their prime. What followed were two back to back 8-8 seasons that further added to the "mirage" in which the narrative was that Chuck never had a losing season. Bare in mind that BOTH seasons they entered the final game at 7-9 at home against a 3 win division foe only to ESCAPE with a late victory.

 

Many mistakes have been made lately by Irsay in allowing the franchise to fall to this level. One reason the Colts USED to be right up there with the Pats in the Manning era was because Irsay had a PROVEN experienced future HOF gm making football decisions. I'm ok with giving first timers a shot but the leash would be short considering the fact of not wanting to waste a potentially great qb like Luck. Too many excuses for this team now. I pray that Ballard is the answer at gm but so far I'm not impressed. Yes he turned the roster over with a lot of BODIES but how many are impact players? I know it will take time but Grigs (who I was not a fan of) ALSO turned over a roster post Manning and flipped a 2-14 team to a 11-5 team while winning the EOY award. My thought is that if Ballard was so good why did it take so long for him to get a gm job?

 

The o-line is STILL beyond bad, there is STILL no pass rush, the opposing bad teams as of late are STILL dropping big pts on that defense (and that's taking away the 2 pick sixes), Scott Tolzien is STILL on the roster and Chuck along with his pitiful "buddies" as a staff is STILL the hc. This team has a LONG way to go even with a healthy Luck onboard. 

[Gyworks]

Change of GM didn't help, the same production remained on the field even with an overhauled roster. The answer is way too obvious: change the coaching staff. I mean why not right now? We could get into the record books by firing the HC right after the first game 

[Corndog]

4 minutes ago, Gyworks said:

Change of GM didn't help, the same production remained on the field even with an overhauled roster. The answer is way too obvious: change the coaching staff. I mean why not right now? We could get into the record books by firing the HC right after the first game 

I think most of us just expect Pagano to be fired at the end of the season.  But I will say, if Pagano completely losses the team to the point where they just stop playing, it will be necessary even though the replacement would be in house and the future HC won't be here until next season.  

[bluephantom87]

Irsay dropped the ball when he gave both Grigson and Pagano an extension. He made matters WORSE when he decided to KEEP Pagano after releasing Grigson. Ballard should have been able to pick his own hc. If Ballard is all about the best players then Tolzien should be RELEASED today and Morris brought back to sit behind Brissett.

[OLD FAN MAN]

6 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

The bottom didn't just fall from under the Colts but have been brewing for a few seasons now. The "mirage" started from the appearance in the AFCCG a few years ago in which the Colts were destroyed by the Pats and didn't look like they belonged on the same field or even in the same league as the Pats BUT the Colts looked outclassed ALL season that year with huge blowout looses against the TOP tier teams. Instead of addressing the issues they drank their own Kool-aide and went ALL in signing a bunch of washed up has been players past their prime. What followed were two back to back 8-8 seasons that further added to the "mirage" in which the narrative was that Chuck never had a losing season. Bare in mind that BOTH seasons they entered the final game at 7-9 at home against a 3 win division foe only to ESCAPE with a late victory.

 

Many mistakes have been made lately by Irsay in allowing the franchise to fall to this level. One reason the Colts USED to be right up there with the Pats in the Manning era was because Irsay had a PROVEN experienced future HOF gm making football decisions. I'm ok with giving first timers a shot but the leash would be short considering the fact of not wanting to waste a potentially great qb like Luck. Too many excuses for this team now. I pray that Ballard is the answer at gm but so far I'm not impressed. Yes he turned the roster over with a lot of BODIES but how many are impact players? I know it will take time but Grigs (who I was not a fan of) ALSO turned over a roster post Manning and flipped a 2-14 team to a 11-5 team while winning the EOY award. My thought is that if Ballard was so good why did it take so long for him to get a gm job?

 

The o-line is STILL beyond bad, there is STILL no pass rush, the opposing bad teams as of late are STILL dropping big pts on that defense (and that's taking away the 2 pick sixes), Scott Tolzien is STILL on the roster and Chuck along with his pitiful "buddies" as a staff is STILL the hc. This team has a LONG way to go even with a healthy Luck onboard. 

i concur

[BR-549]

5 hours ago, Corndog said:

I think most of us just expect Pagano to be fired at the end of the season.  But I will say, if Pagano completely losses the team to the point where they just stop playing, it will be necessary even though the replacement would be in house and the future HC won't be here until next season.  

I haven't had a corndog in a while.... your avatar makes me hungry for one.  I like to dip my corndog in mustard and ketchup not squirt it along the dog.  I can eat like 5 at one sitting if I am hungry..

 

 

[CoachLite]

6 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

The bottom didn't just fall from under the Colts but have been brewing for a few seasons now. The "mirage" started from the appearance in the AFCCG a few years ago in which the Colts were destroyed by the Pats and didn't look like they belonged on the same field or even in the same league as the Pats BUT the Colts looked outclassed ALL season that year with huge blowout looses against the TOP tier teams. Instead of addressing the issues they drank their own Kool-aide and went ALL in signing a bunch of washed up has been players past their prime. What followed were two back to back 8-8 seasons that further added to the "mirage" in which the narrative was that Chuck never had a losing season. Bare in mind that BOTH seasons they entered the final game at 7-9 at home against a 3 win division foe only to ESCAPE with a late victory.

 

Many mistakes have been made lately by Irsay in allowing the franchise to fall to this level. One reason the Colts USED to be right up there with the Pats in the Manning era was because Irsay had a PROVEN experienced future HOF gm making football decisions. I'm ok with giving first timers a shot but the leash would be short considering the fact of not wanting to waste a potentially great qb like Luck. Too many excuses for this team now. I pray that Ballard is the answer at gm but so far I'm not impressed. Yes he turned the roster over with a lot of BODIES but how many are impact players? I know it will take time but Grigs (who I was not a fan of) ALSO turned over a roster post Manning and flipped a 2-14 team to a 11-5 team while winning the EOY award. My thought is that if Ballard was so good why did it take so long for him to get a gm job?

 

The o-line is STILL beyond bad, there is STILL no pass rush, the opposing bad teams as of late are STILL dropping big pts on that defense (and that's taking away the 2 pick sixes), Scott Tolzien is STILL on the roster and Chuck along with his pitiful "buddies" as a staff is STILL the hc. This team has a LONG way to go even with a healthy Luck onboard. 

 

The Colts are much larger than merely Ballard. Ballard may potentially be the best GM in history, and yet fail because the Colts as a team (from FO, staff, coaches, trainers, players and beyond) won't align as a team to accomplish what needs to be accomplished. I have thought that the player talent was always sufficient to perform. Yes, it could be (could have been) better. And yet, they continually grossly underperform. Imagine how frustrating that is. Altogether as a team, they are clueless.  We could have all #1 draft picks and not win many games (seems the Redskins tried this once).

 

For whatever reasons, the coaching staff isn't getting the job done, and after this length of time probably never will. Worse, they (and here I refer to the coaches) are damaging the "brand" of the Colts, almost to the point of no repair, at least for Andrew Luck's career. It would take several years to correct the culture ... if ever. Who in their right mind would want to risk that possibility with their career? See, for example, the Jets, Browns and Bengals.

[BlueRedZone]

39 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

Irsay dropped the ball when he gave both Grigson and Pagano an extension. He made matters WORSE when he decided to KEEP Pagano after releasing Grigson. Ballard should have been able to pick his own hc. If Ballard is all about the best players then Tolzien should be RELEASED today and Morris brought back to sit behind Brissett.

Morris should start with Brissett as the backup. Morris knows the offense well. Would be less handicapped with him. But yes release Tolzien right away.  

[indyagent17]

Seems to me that Pagano was retained because Irsay could not find the coach he wanted but mark my words Irsay is looking right now to see which which former solid head coach wants to come here (Cohwer, Saban, Meyer or for heavens sake Parcell at age 76)

[Blueblood23]

The offensive line was terrible.

 

No pass rush!

 

The coaching staff is not NFL caliber.

[bluephantom87]

1 hour ago, BlueRedZone said:

Morris should start with Brissett as the backup. Morris knows the offense well. Would be less handicapped with him. But yes release Tolzien right away.  

 

I agree with you. I just stated it the other way around because for whatever reason they simply don't like Morris. You would think after Tolzien's pitiful play yesterday and the national backlash questioning if he should even be on a NFL roster you would think Morris would be on speed dial. At this point Tolzien shouldn't even be an option especially should Brissett get hurt. Leave it to Chuck when asked today if Brissett would start the next game and he said it will be evaluated between the two to see who gives the team the BEST chance to win.... What?!!! This is now the state of Colt nation! Chuck is now being exposed as the VERY subpar hc that he is without having Grigs to point the finger at or by piling up easy wins in a once putrid division that has gotten better. Gone are the days of Chuck hiding behind Luck to carry a bad team and coaching staff as his injuries mount due to the punishment taken from years of neglect in addressing the laughable o-line. My hope is that Ballard IS all about football and if a mistake is made on a player that he continues to address the problem by upgrading that spot and it starts with Scott Tolzien.

[Bluesmith]

I think one of the things that doomed this team was going 11-5 in the first season.  I think Irsay, Pagano, Grigson etc fully expected a full blown rebuild and blowup of the roster spanning the course of three years.  Instead in years 2 and 3 they found themselves in a position they didn't expect, 11-5 and advancing in the playoffs each year.  

 

They were obligated to try and go with what they had and spend money on free agents instead of purging everyone and growing the roster from youth.

 

The result?  3 years of 8-8, an old, slow ineffective roster, and regression in several key units most notably offensive line.  While I don't agree with every move Ballard has made, I agree with the direction.  An unapologetic roster reset.  I can see over half of our OL being jettisoned next offseason (if they are going to suck, might as well be young and suck)

[Malakai432]

9 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

The bottom didn't just fall from under the Colts but have been brewing for a few seasons now. The "mirage" started from the appearance in the AFCCG a few years ago in which the Colts were destroyed by the Pats and didn't look like they belonged on the same field or even in the same league as the Pats BUT the Colts looked outclassed ALL season that year with huge blowout looses against the TOP tier teams. Instead of addressing the issues they drank their own Kool-aide and went ALL in signing a bunch of washed up has been players past their prime. What followed were two back to back 8-8 seasons that further added to the "mirage" in which the narrative was that Chuck never had a losing season. Bare in mind that BOTH seasons they entered the final game at 7-9 at home against a 3 win division foe only to ESCAPE with a late victory.

 

Many mistakes have been made lately by Irsay in allowing the franchise to fall to this level. One reason the Colts USED to be right up there with the Pats in the Manning era was because Irsay had a PROVEN experienced future HOF gm making football decisions. I'm ok with giving first timers a shot but the leash would be short considering the fact of not wanting to waste a potentially great qb like Luck. Too many excuses for this team now. I pray that Ballard is the answer at gm but so far I'm not impressed. Yes he turned the roster over with a lot of BODIES but how many are impact players? I know it will take time but Grigs (who I was not a fan of) ALSO turned over a roster post Manning and flipped a 2-14 team to a 11-5 team while winning the EOY award. My thought is that if Ballard was so good why did it take so long for him to get a gm job?

 

The o-line is STILL beyond bad, there is STILL no pass rush, the opposing bad teams as of late are STILL dropping big pts on that defense (and that's taking away the 2 pick sixes), Scott Tolzien is STILL on the roster and Chuck along with his pitiful "buddies" as a staff is STILL the hc. This team has a LONG way to go even with a healthy Luck onboard. 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I am not sure what the Coaching staff ever seen in Tolzein? I have always thought Morris was better since last season.

[BlueRedZone]

45 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

I agree with you. I just stated it the other way around because for whatever reason they simply don't like Morris. You would think after Tolzien's pitiful play yesterday and the national backlash questioning if he should even be on a NFL roster you would think Morris would be on speed dial. At this point Tolzien shouldn't even be an option especially should Brissett get hurt. Leave it to Chuck when asked today if Brissett would start the next game and he said it will be evaluated between the two to see who gives the team the BEST chance to win.... What?!!! This is now the state of Colt nation! Chuck is now being exposed as the VERY subpar hc that he is without having Grigs to point the finger at or by piling up easy wins in a once putrid division that has gotten better. Gone are the days of Chuck hiding behind Luck to carry a bad team and coaching staff as his injuries mount due to the punishment taken from years of neglect in addressing the laughable o-line. My hope is that Ballard IS all about football and if a mistake is made on a player that he continues to address the problem by upgrading that spot and it starts with Scott Tolzien.

The frustration for me lies with what I thought the colts were going to do was have competition at each position.  That seems to be the case except for the qb position.  Morris far outplayed Tolzien in the preseason.  If they know scott is not a backup then don't let him be your backup/starter. 

 

i agree with your assessment 

[AZColt11]

Agreed OP.  The writing has been on the wall for a while now.  Luck just covered up a LOT of issues.  Now we are getting to see how many issues the Colts really have.  And it's about everything.

 

I still think Ballard can clean this up, but this is WAY beyond a 1 season rebuild.  This is a few years MINIMUM.

[braveheartcolt]

Ballard certainly does need to do something pretty drastic. But how wonderfully hindsightful some people are.....

[HungarianColtsFan]

10 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

Seems to me that Pagano was retained because Irsay could not find the coach he wanted but mark my words Irsay is looking right now to see which which former solid head coach wants to come here (Cohwer, Saban, Meyer or for heavens sake Parcell at age 76)

 

I second that. I've seen a tweet weeks ago what stated, Irsay quietly approached possible HC candidates past two years. 

 

I think it is safe to say that 2017 is Pagano's last season here, the only real question is weather Pagano makes it till Black Monday or will he be fired earlier. 

[Smitto]

I think we gotta remember Ballard didn't want pagano so this really isn't his fault... This loss is all on pagano and not preparing his players 

[HungarianColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, Smitto said:

I think we gotta remember Ballard didn't want pagano so this really isn't his fault... This loss is all on pagano and not preparing his players 

 

Pagano prepares his resume and not players.

[DougDew]

Some history here. When Grigson was hired, the roster was bare, however, the players he had were very good.  There was Reggie, Mathis, Castonzo was a rookie, Bethea.  He traded for a young healthy Vontae, and signed Redding who was a contributor.  During Grigson's early years, TY was productive his rookie year, and even Donnie Avery made some plays. The Oline was average, but they were all FA signed veterans who were competent enough to stick on NFL rosters.

 

I don't see any players on the roster who compare to any of those great players that Grigson inherited or the decent players he signed in his first year (without much cap room).  We still haven't found a competent replacement for Reggie or Mathis, and Vontae is becoming less reliable.  I don't know if the rookies are going to contribute much.

 

TY, Reggie, and Donnie Avery as a group was probably the best trio of WRs the Colts have had since the Marvin Harrison years.

[Defjamz26]

What I find the most hilarious is that people defend Pagano by saying he won 33 games his first 4 years. But Luck carried the team and masked a lot of flaws. But no one wants to hear that.

 

then when we go 8-8 without Luck, it's because we didn't have him for half the season. Then they go 8-8 with Luck missing 1 game. This team constantly gets exposed when he's out, and it really shows you that he's Manning in 2011. Colts are THAT bad without him.

[Dingus McGirt]

6 hours ago, HungarianColtsFan said:

 

I second that. I've seen a tweet weeks ago what stated, Irsay quietly approached possible HC candidates past two years. 

 

I think it is safe to say that 2017 is Pagano's last season here, the only real question is weather Pagano makes it till Black Monday or will he be fired earlier. 

Nope.  Pagano will be on the Colt's sidelines in 2018.  Irsay is a nice guy...an enabler...but, a nice guy.

 

[The Fish]

How'd Ballard end up in this?

 

 

[HungarianColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Nope.  Pagano will be on the Colt's sidelines in 2018.  Irsay is a nice guy...an enabler...but, a nice guy.

 

 

 

I don't know Irsay personally, he might be a nice guy, but he isn't fool (fools can't run such organization with success).

 

Grigson was said to be a friend to Irsay-family, and where is he now?

[NewColtsFan]

11 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

What I find the most hilarious is that people defend Pagano by saying he won 33 games his first 4 years. But Luck carried the team and masked a lot of flaws. But no one wants to hear that.

 

then when we go 8-8 without Luck, it's because we didn't have him for half the season. Then they go 8-8 with Luck missing 1 game. This team constantly gets exposed when he's out, and it really shows you that he's Manning in 2011. Colts are THAT bad without him.

 

Actually,  the Pagano won 33 games in his first 3 years,  not his first 4.      11 wins in each of his first 3 seasons.

 

No one disputes that Luck carried the team.

 

The Colts won 8 games in 15 when Luck missed 9 games.     A masterful job by Pagano and Chud and yet you chose to ignore it, or downplay it.

 

The Colts won 8 games in 16 with one of the worst defenses in the NFL (supported by NFL stats) and you either want to ignore it, or downplay it because it again undercuts your anti-Pagano argument.

 

Facts are facts.

 

Opinions are opinions.      I don't mind them,  I have some of my own,  but when opinons fly in the face of facts,  I try to see the truth.

 

[King Colt]

Now add this to the stew.There are rumblings true or not true, that Luck is unhappy with the Colts. Herm Edwards on Mike & Mike this morning could not verify either way but if is true then that is a huge card the Colts will have to play.

[Defjamz26]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Actually,  the Pagano won 33 games in his first 3 years,  not his first 4.      11 wins in each of his first 3 seasons.

 

No one disputes that Luck carried the team.

 

The Colts won 8 games in 15 when Luck missed 9 games.     A masterful job by Pagano and Chud and yet you chose to ignore it, or downplay it.

 

The Colts won 8 games in 16 with one of the worst defenses in the NFL (supported by NFL stats) and you either want to ignore it, or downplay it because it again undercuts your anti-Pagano argument.

 

Facts are facts.

 

Opinions are opinions.      I don't mind them,  I have some of my own,  but when opinons fly in the face of facts,  I try to see the truth.

 

Bringing up the bad defense just further supports my point. Not a lot of people like to admit that Luck is the saving grace of the team. They won't give him the credit for the winning seasons, which is fine, but then to defend Pagano they try and say that the first 8-8 was because they didn't have Luck. That's a fair argument. But that point is null when the very next season the Colts have Luck 15/16 of the games and STILL go 8-8.  If the numbers I'm looking at our correct they gave up about 30 more points and averages 40 more YPG given up in 2016 than in 2014. The D  was almost as bad In 2012 as it was in 2016. 

 

So what Im trying to figure is if you really think that the Colts just aren't a poorly coached team and Luck is what makes them even look decent.

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Bringing up the bad defense just further supports my point. Not a lot of people like to admit that Luck is the saving grace of the team. They won't give him the credit for the winning seasons, which is fine, but then to defend Pagano they try and say that the first 8-8 was because they didn't have Luck. That's a fair argument. But that point is null when the very next season the Colts have Luck 15/16 of the games and STILL go 8-8.  If the numbers I'm looking at our correct they gave up about 30 more points and averages 40 more YPG given up in 2016 than in 2014. The D  was almost as bad In 2012 as it was in 2016. 

 

So what Im trying to figure is if you really think that the Colts just aren't a poorly coached team and Luck is what makes them even look decent.

 

How did you do that?

 

I speciifcally write that the 2016 team had the 30th ranked defense.    I think we were bottom-5 in most every major defensive category.    And the proof of how bad we were is that Ballard got rid of almost the entire defense and roughly of those guys are not in the NFL anymore and the half that are,  are back-ups.

 

And yet you chose to ignore it.      As if it didn't happen.

 

What happened last year was mostly a defensive problem.      And it's not exactly a secret.    But you ignore because you're Hell bent on blaming Pagano for everything,  even things that are not his fault.     There's plenty to blame Chuck for.     I just chose not to blame him for things that are out of his control.

 

 

 

[Mister P]

Mr. Pagano and his staff are 80% of the problem (talent being the other 20%).  He'll be gone at seasons end.  Don't expect a favorable replacement.  Harbaugh will not be coming.  Just not many good options available.  However, anyone will be an improvement.

Roll, BLUE!!

[GoColts8818]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

How did you do that?

 

I speciifcally write that the 2016 team had the 30th ranked defense.    I think we were bottom-5 in most every major defensive category.    And the proof of how bad we were is that Ballard got rid of almost the entire defense and roughly of those guys are not in the NFL anymore and the half that are,  are back-ups.

 

And yet you chose to ignore it.      As if it didn't happen.

 

What happened last year was mostly a defensive problem.      And it's not exactly a secret.    But you ignore because you're Hell bent on blaming Pagano for everything,  even things that are not his fault.     There's plenty to blame Chuck for.     I just chose not to blame him for things that are out of his control.

 

 

 

People want a simple solution.  Fire one guy and all the problems go away.  As you clearly know it's not that simple.  I am in the fire Chuck camp but like you I realize the Colts have other issues beyond the head coach.  This is a major rebuild, something frankly most Colts fans aren't used too.  The last rebuild had one down season the last one before that had two and that goes all the way back to the middle 90's.  This going to take time to fix.  In the mean time the Colts are going to take some lumps.  I know people don't want to hear that but this isn't a quick fix.