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Dontari Poe scheduled to visit

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Does it really matter what the final numbers are? especially to us Fans.

 

As long as the deal wont hancuff us to sign others and our own.

The most important thing is what kind of production he gives us AND if his health will allow him to play at a high level.

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1 minute ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

Does it really matter what the final numbers are? especially to us Fans.

 

As long as the deal wont hancuff us to sign others and our own.

The most important thing is what kind of production he gives us AND if his health will allow him to play at a high level.

 

for cap nerds like me it does become a factor as to how its structured and what are the long term repercussions 

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If it's a big $ deal people are going to freak out and complain. If he is great on the field no one will care about how much $ he makes. Wait and see how he performs before you lose your minds people.

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1 minute ago, corgi said:

If it's a big $ deal people are going to freak out and complain. If he is great on the field no one will care about how much $ he makes. Wait and see how he performs before you lose your minds people.

Nicely Put

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8 minutes ago, riftastic28 said:

Why he's 26 

 

Several reasons....    he'll be 27 when the season starts and he already has back back.

 

Operated on in the summer of 2015.    He's had at least one (2016) if not two (15) sub-par years.

 

Age means little when you have a bad back.    That's why teams have been reluctant to give Poe a good 5 year contract.   Poe has reportedly been asking for a 1-year "make good" contract so he can reestablish his worth.

 

That should tell you he doesn't like the offers he's been getting.     It all goes back to the back.

 

 

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How long does this process take? It was tweeted that he arrived 3 hours ago. So allowing for him to get comfortable, have a look around the facilitates, meet the staff, have a meal (a big meal for him) and eventually get down to discussions with his agent we could be waiting for maybe another 2 hours or more?

 

..or not.

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15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If he has a great year and plans to opt out, you still have a month between the end of the season and the start of free agency to sign him to a new deal. If he plays poorly and you cut him, it's just the same as cutting any player after a bad year.

 

And of course, there's the in between -- he plays pretty well, good enough to keep him, not good enough for him to go back to free agency -- and you have a second year with him. The conclusion of that second year gets treated like the end of any free agent deal, and the team would still have tag rights and still be in line for a comp pick if he leaves. 

The problem for me with this type of deal is that if he has good enough year to keep him, he will probably be incentivized enough to go into free agency because otherwise he will be free agent at 29 in 2019, when it will be harder for him to cash in on a big deal. In this case as long as he's worth keeping(doesn't even have to he great), he will opt out and test free agency trying to strike a long-term deal. I guess what I'm trying to say is - I don't think there will be a happy medium really. He will sacrifice 1-2M in the first year if he knew he can get say... 4x9 in FA.

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Just now, Colt Overseas said:

How long does this process take? It was tweeted that he arrived 3 hours ago. So allowing for him to get comfortable, have a look around the facilitates, meet the staff, have a meal (a big meal for him) and eventually get down to discussions with his agent we could be waiting for maybe another 2 hours or more?

 

..or not.

It depends on several factors

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10 minutes ago, stitches said:

The problem for me with this type of deal is that if he has good enough year to keep him, he will probably be incentivized enough to go into free agency because otherwise he will be free agent at 29 in 2019, when it will be harder for him to cash in on a big deal. In this case as long as he's worth keeping(doesn't even have to he great), he will opt out and test free agency trying to strike a long-term deal. I guess what I'm trying to say is - I don't think there will be a happy medium really. He will sacrifice 1-2M in the first year if he knew he can get say... 4x9 in FA.

 

 So you are currently unhappy either way!  Thanks for your input.

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Here a slightly interesting question a family member (Giants fan who just likes to watch the whole FA process league-wide) asked me. Would Grigson made any of the moves Ballard has made in the last week ?

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15 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 So you are currently unhappy either way!  Thanks for your input.

What? What way is either way? And how did you decide I'm unhappy with it? I'd be OK with pretty much any deal they give him with the exception of the overpaying for long time type of deal(the type people were suggesting earlier - 70M for 5 years. That I will be unhappy with).

 

For this post, I'm just pointing out that this type of deal that @Supermanis suggesting probably won't work the way he's imagining it - the middle ground he's imagining probably sends him into free agency in the deal he's suggesting. i still will be OK with it, but I think the Colts won't really benefit much from the addition of that second year in the contract.

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18 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

for cap nerds like me it does become a factor as to how its structured and what are the long term repercussions 

 

Do you plan on letting Vontae and Mewhort walk as part of Your Cap factoring?
How about Moncrief? What are your plans for him?  :spit:

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2 minutes ago, HOF19 said:

Here a slightly interesting question a family member (Giants fan who just likes to watch the whole FA process league-wide) asked me. Would Grigson made any of the moves Ballard has made in the last week ?

 

I think Grigson would've made ALL the moves except maybe trading Allen.

 

But the FA moves are very Grigson-like so far.     Inexpensive to mid-priced free agents.     So far,  nothing huge or super expensive.     It used to drive people here crazy,   they HATED that.

 

Now that Ballard is doing it,  so far it is GENIUS!!

 

 

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Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think Grigson would've made ALL the moves except maybe trading Allen.

 

But the FA moves are very Grigson-like so far.     Inexpensive to mid-priced free agents.     So far,  nothing huge or super expensive.     It used to drive people here crazy,   they HATED that.

 

Now that Ballard is doing it,  so far it is GENIUS!!

 

 

So true

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33 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

Does it really matter what the final numbers are? especially to us Fans.

 

As long as the deal wont hancuff us to sign others and our own.

The most important thing is what kind of production he gives us AND if his health will allow him to play at a high level.

It sounds like you answered your question in the opposite way that the tone of your question implied.

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25 minutes ago, stitches said:

The problem for me with this type of deal is that if he has good enough year to keep him, he will probably be incentivized enough to go into free agency because otherwise he will be free agent at 29 in 2019, when it will be harder for him to cash in on a big deal. In this case as long as he's worth keeping(doesn't even have to he great), he will opt out and test free agency trying to strike a long-term deal. I guess what I'm trying to say is - I don't think there will be a happy medium really. He will sacrifice 1-2M in the first year if he knew he can get say... 4x9 in FA.

 

There's a cost in free agency. He evidently wants the freedom to hit free agency again next year. So it's either a straight one year deal -- which is fine -- or a two year deal with a wrinkle that offers both sides a little more flexibility. Either one is a one year deal, realistically speaking. 

 

If Poe wasn't asking for a one year deal, I'd say we should be looking at 2-3 years anyways, but with team flexibility either way. We're probably not going to guarantee anything beyond Year 1. 

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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think Grigson would've made ALL the moves except maybe trading Allen.

 

But the FA moves are very Grigson-like so far.     Inexpensive to mid-priced free agents.     So far,  nothing huge or super expensive.     It used to drive people here crazy,   they HATED that.

 

Now that Ballard is doing it,  so far it is GENIUS!!

 

 

Signing Simon and Sheard is fine, just as signing Jean-Francois and Walden were fine......

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3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think Grigson would've made ALL the moves except maybe trading Allen.

 

But the FA moves are very Grigson-like so far.     Inexpensive to mid-priced free agents.     So far,  nothing huge or super expensive.     It used to drive people here crazy,   they HATED that.

 

Now that Ballard is doing it,  so far it is GENIUS!!

 

 

That was the case in the first few years. Later, I feel he tended to sign the 30+ guys. That clearly is something Ballard isn't doing.

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1 minute ago, Shafty138 said:

Signing Simon and Sheard is fine, just as signing Jean-Francois and Walden were fine......

I forgot about RJF

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Just now, backshoulderfade said:

That was the case in the first few years. Later, I feel he tended to sign the 30+ guys. That clearly is something Ballard isn't doing.

 

True....   he did that in 2015 to make a SB run in Luck's last year of his rookie contract.

 

But again,  none of those deals were super expensive.    Mostly mid-priced.    Turns out even some of those were still over-priced.

 

And I'm glad Ballard is not signing the 30-somethings.    Clearly,  with Irsay's approval,  we're heading in a new direction.

 

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6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think Grigson would've made ALL the moves except maybe trading Allen.

 

But the FA moves are very Grigson-like so far.     Inexpensive to mid-priced free agents.     So far,  nothing huge or super expensive.     It used to drive people here crazy,   they HATED that.

 

Now that Ballard is doing it,  so far it is GENIUS!!

 

 

Yes and no. I've not seen a 30+ yr old FA brought in just yet....

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Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

True....   he did that in 2015 to make a SB run in Luck's last year of his rookie contract.

 

But again,  none of those deals were super expensive.    Mostly mid-priced.    Turns out even some of those were still over-priced.

 

And I'm glad Ballard is not signing the 30-somethings.    Clearly,  with Irsay's approval,  we're heading in a new direction.

 

That said, I do agree that the extreme praise of Ballard is premature and ridiculous at the point we are at.

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9 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

Signing Simon and Sheard is fine, just as signing Jean-Francois and Walden were fine......

 

 RJF was a backup that got at the time a hefty $5M to prove himself and Walden had stunk at GB.
 We didn`t get our $$ worth on either.
 

 DQ would probably still be here, he definitely would not have cut P Robinson, and would have signed tendered/Kerr.
 And with the pressure on, he would have likely signed whatever high $$ FA he could get to come here. JMO of course.

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8 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Yes and no. I've not seen a 30+ yr old FA brought in just yet....

 

Yes....  and I have noted that in another post.

 

But that was mostly done to win during Luck's rookie contract and done at the urging of Jim Irsay.    The owner certainly signed off on all those deals....

 

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9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think Grigson would've made ALL the moves except maybe trading Allen.

 

But the FA moves are very Grigson-like so far.     Inexpensive to mid-priced free agents.     So far,  nothing huge or super expensive.     It used to drive people here crazy,   they HATED that.

 

Now that Ballard is doing it,  so far it is GENIUS!!

 

 

 

Hard to say how Grigson would be spending this money. Are you saying Grigson would have signed the same guys or are you saying that neither guy had a propensity to blow their brains on a 12 million guard ? There are only m

19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think Grigson would've made ALL the moves except maybe trading Allen.

 

But the FA moves are very Grigson-like so far.     Inexpensive to mid-priced free agents.     So far,  nothing huge or super expensive.     It used to drive people here crazy,   they HATED that.

 

Now that Ballard is doing it,  so far it is GENIUS!!

 

 

 

Lets compare the results a year from now and then judge ? You kind of infer that Grigson would have made the same moves .. I don't think you mean to do that. 

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28 minutes ago, HOF19 said:

Here a slightly interesting question a family member (Giants fan who just likes to watch the whole FA process league-wide) asked me. Would Grigson made any of the moves Ballard has made in the last week ?

At practically every Grigson free agent signing, people were scratching their heads.  Why Cole?  Why Cherilus?  You gave RJF what?  And in nearly every case, they were right.  

 

It's in my nature to be a critic, but this feels completely different.  You can sense a plan.  You can sense competency. If Poe signs, I have a feeling all three of these signings might turn out to be better than practically any move Grigson made.

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2 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

Hard to say how Grigson would be spending this money. Are you saying Grigson would have signed the same guys or are you saying that neither guy had a propensity to blow their brains on a 12 million guard ? There are only m

 

Lets compare the results a year from now and then judge ? You kind of infer that Grigson would have made the same moves .. I don't think you mean to do that. 

 

There's no way for me or anyone else to know exactly who Grigson would've signed.

 

But if he was looking to sign two OLB's,  I suspect both would've been under consideration and I suspect he'd rule out the guys who went for 10 Mill +...

 

So if he didn't sign Sheard and Simon he'd have found two other guys.....    but roughly in the same mid-price range...

 

The moves are Grigson-like...

 

And the reason to bring it up now,  is that I was responding to another poster who brought it up now.     I was simply answering a generic question put to all of us.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

There's no way for me or anyone else to know exactly who Grigson would've signed.

 

But if he was looking to sign two OLB's,  I suspect both would've been under consideration and I suspect he'd rule out the guys who went for 10 Mill +...

 

So if he didn't sign Sheard and Simon he'd have found two other guys.....    but roughly in the same mid-price range...

 

The moves are Grigson-like...

 

 

I disagree. Grigson was more about tying to find a diamond in the rough and taking risks on players with little history. Granted that worked in the case of Freeman but struck out in most other cases

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