Jabaal Sheard visiting Colts (Merged)

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, Rackeen305 said:

Ok, So besides a Khalil Mack or Von Miller. The point is that we need  difference makers. You guys have to stop getting hungUp or Salty because posters drop big names on the board. The names are used as a simile ( a figure of speech involving the comparison of one thing with another thing of a different kind, used to make a description more emphatic or vivid )

 

 

 

do you think there's anyone on this board that doesn't know that?

 

Quote

I think a 2 year old knows that AP, or Julio Jones, or Von Millers' arent laying around. But to disregard the quality of player the aforementioned players are, and not trading to get one if they're there is small minded and silly.  

 

what Von Miller -esque pass rusher is currently on the trade block?  Teams don't generally trade away those type of players, and when they do it gets REALLY expensive REALLY fast. 

[Rackeen305]

12 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

do you think there's anyone on this board that doesn't know that?

 

 

what Von Miller -esque pass rusher is currently on the trade block?  Teams don't generally trade away those type of players, and when they do it gets REALLY expensive REALLY fast. 

 

21 minutes ago, dgambill said:

 

You realize there is NOBODY in free agency like that....not a single guy...and only 1 in the draft....who will go in the first. Unless we have a top pick in the draft and even some years with that your not going to come away with players like that. It aint happening...and if we land Sheard to go along with Simon they will be our day 1 starters unless we have an injury God forbid.

 

23 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

 

 

Let's hope we grab someone in the draft that meets your lofty expectations or we might as well get rid of Ballard too huh?  Von Miller or bust!

Hi lol, My point was to select top caliber players (Von Millers) in the draft, not in free agency.

 

If you think a standout guy cant be found in the draft. Let me * you all off by mentioning a guy who wasn't drafted in the top 3-5 nor the 1st through 5 rounds. TOM MF BRADY!

 

my point again is to get top players, even if it means trading up like we did with TY. The worst thing is when you make a point and someone tells you something that you didnt even say. Where they get their ideas from. no one knows.

[cbear]

Sign him.  I'll leave the free lansing part to Pags to deal with.  His strength afterall is relationship with players.

[SteelCityColt]

5 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

 

Hi lol, My point was to select top caliber players (Von Millers) in the draft, not in free agency.

 

If you think a standout guy cant be found in the draft. Let me * you all off by mentioning a guy who wasn't drafted in the top 3-5 nor the 1st through 5 rounds. TOM MF BRADY!

 

my point again is to get top players, even if it means trading up like we did with TY. The worst thing is when you make a point and someone tells you something that you didnt even say. Where they get their ideas from. no one knows.

 

Citing Tom Brady is very much calling the exception not the rule.

 

I don't think it's unfair to say on the whole pass rushers of the talent you're crying out about are only available within the top 20 (let's be generous) of the draft and even that can be hit and miss. They certainly aren't all that likely to hit FA unless they're on the down swing of their career. 

 

A better player to make your point with would have been Justin Houston or even our very own Robert Mathis. 

 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I cool with kicking the tire with this guy, he does have some skill. Is he a knuckle head? Also I see lots of people thinking hes a LB I believe he is a 3/4 rush end? Am I wrong?

[Rackeen305]

7 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Citing Tom Brady is very much calling the exception not the rule.

 

I don't think it's unfair to say on the whole pass rushers of the talent you're crying out about are only available within the top 20 (let's be generous) of the draft and even that can be hit and miss. They certainly aren't all that likely to hit FA unless they're on the down swing of their career. 

 

A better player to make your point with would have been Justin Houston or even our very own Robert Mathis. 

 

Look, there are gems found all through the draft. Just because I mentioned someone that you dont like me to reference doesnt discredit my point. Here's another late rounder. Jason Taylor.

[DaColts85]

14 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

 

Hi lol, My point was to select top caliber players (Von Millers) in the draft, not in free agency.

 

If you think a standout guy cant be found in the draft. Let me * you all off by mentioning a guy who wasn't drafted in the top 3-5 nor the 1st through 5 rounds. TOM MF BRADY!

 

my point again is to get top players, even if it means trading up like we did with TY. The worst thing is when you make a point and someone tells you something that you didnt even say. Where they get their ideas from. no one knows.

I see what your saying and I agree.  We could always try and move up in a later round and grab someone who hopefully pans out.  It is always possible to grab someone late and they become a stud but the odds are against you.  The draft is also something that is somewhat of a guessing game.  You mention Brady but that is definitely an over statement.  For every Brady there is 100's of 6th rounders not in the league anymore.  The 1st round also produces a guessing game.  Werner, Mingo (who we just signed), the list goes on...

[SteelCityColt]

3 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Look, there are gems found all through the draft. Just because I mentioned someone that you dont like me to reference doesnt discredit my point. Here's another late rounder. Jason Taylor.

 

Of course there are, just as some UDFAs can come out of nowhere to be stars. Just because it can happen doesn't make it likely to happen...

 

The Brady comparison was bad because you're citing an elite QB, not too many of those are found even in the first round let alone later on. Pass Rushers at least you can take a punt on the guy with the physicals if not the polish. 

[dgambill]

34 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

You realize I said we could get a big time talent like that in the draft???? But we need to sign or trade for the best possible player. And no they both WILL NOT be starting. Our 1st rounder will be starting whether it be Takk/Williams/Charlton or even Harris. A rookie stud next to one of those 2.

None of those guys are comparable to any of the superstars you mentioned....none have the ability that Von Miller and the others display. I'm even skeptical we take an edge rusher in the first just to be honest.

[Rackeen305]

Just now, SteelCityColt said:

 

Of course there are, just as some UDFAs can come out of nowhere to be stars. Just because it can happen doesn't make it likely to happen...

the HOODIE would find them. just kidding BROS! listen, Only If Jim Irsey had fans in the negotiation rooms. At least he knows his fan base is loyal to the SHOE!

 

We Want WINNERS, NOW! 

[DaColts85]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

None of those guys are comparable to any of the superstars you mentioned....none have the ability that Von Miller and the others display. I'm even skeptical we take an edge rusher in the first just to be honest.

I see what you are saying but I disagree completely with that statement.  You have guys in this years draft outside of Garrett that can easily become a stud.  You also have the possibility for them all to be mediocre.  It is a guessing game with the draft.  The combine showed Clowney as a phenom but to be #1 overall I would not put him and Von Miller in the same league.  You can't compare them until they have some NFL stats behind their name.  Taco could become the next Justin Houston.

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I see what you are saying but I disagree completely with that statement.  You have guys in this years draft outside of Garrett that can easily become a stud.  You also have the possibility for them all to be mediocre.  It is a guessing game with the draft.  The combine showed Clowney as a phenom but to be #1 overall I would not put him and Von Miller in the same league.  You can't compare them until they have some NFL stats behind their name.  Taco could become the next Justin Houston.

Of course...but the guys he mentioned had already shown signs in college that they would project as phenoms...that is why they were all top picks in the draft. There isn't another guy in the draft outside of Myles that even projects close to them. Sure one of those guys could...but then again there are guys that could be drafted in the middle rounds that have as much potential arguably. I'm saying to KNOW your getting a stud pass rusher in the draft....there is only 1 guy that projects to that. Heck he could wash out too but those other guys you can't say with the certainty that you can for Myles...so they are on a whole different level. Those are second tier talents in this draft that share more similarities with a 2nd and 3rd day player than with Myles honestly. All that said I don't think any of the guys he has mentioned are going to step in and start. They need a lot of polish and work. Thus guys like Simon and maybe Sheard are going to have to start for us and we develop their replacement. It's very hard to land a Von Miller in the draft unless you have high draft picks. Not impossible though and that is where we will have to invest in developing one....but guys like Simon and Sheard are possibly the best case scenarios for us in FA....you just aren't going to find a FA of elite quality landing on our door step.

[dgambill]

39 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

 

Hi lol, My point was to select top caliber players (Von Millers) in the draft, not in free agency.

 

If you think a standout guy cant be found in the draft. Let me * you all off by mentioning a guy who wasn't drafted in the top 3-5 nor the 1st through 5 rounds. TOM MF BRADY!

 

my point again is to get top players, even if it means trading up like we did with TY. The worst thing is when you make a point and someone tells you something that you didnt even say. Where they get their ideas from. no one knows.

What we are saying is the chance that a guy like that is out there in this draft that will be the next Von Miller is very slim outside Myles Garrett. Else every year we would see Von Miller players show up on every team every year. They just don't exist. He is a singularity....once in every 4 or 5 years basically. Tom Brady is the same way. In all the drafts in the past 20 years why haven't their been more Tom Brady's??? You act as if there is one in every draft....there just isn't. If that was the case we should trade all our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rd picks to just load up on 5th and 6th rd guys...I mean if we have like 20 picks in those rounds we should be all certain we will find the next Tom Brady this year correct? Let's be real here.....if we were to take a bet in this draft that I could have Myles Garrett and I give you the whole field of EDGE rushers....which would have the best career I would still take Garrett and give you every single pass rusher in this draft. I like my chances to win that bet. Sure Garrett could wash out or get hurt but the odds are that his career will be better than any single other rusher in this draft based on everything we know about him and the rest of these guys. Now to take him vs every single rusher in the next 3 or 4...yeah there will probably be a guy that goes later that exceeds expectation and explodes onto the scene...but guys like Von Miller are rare and not often found outside the top 10....and when they are its probably more by accident than anything.

[PeterBowman]

any news on this?

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

any news on this?

was just coming back to ask the same thing.  Great minds

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

any news on this?

 

Just now, csmopar said:

was just coming back to ask the same thing.  Great minds

No.

[RockThatBlue]

I hope we get him. Hes a very solid player.

[rock8591]

I remember briefly, PFF grading of all edge rushers in 2015 season, he was at #8 with a 88.xx grade...this past year at 79.xx grade.

 

I take those heavily with a grain of salt, but to even be considered top 10 by position in the same sentence should say something. Should have signed him in 2015, instead of Trent Cole.

[dgambill]

10 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

any news on this?

I didn't see when he is to arrive? I haven't seen any info but hopefully we can get him signed shortly after.

[James Sturgill]

Any word yet on how the visit is going?

[DaColts85]

27 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Of course...but the guys he mentioned had already shown signs in college that they would project as phenoms...that is why they were all top picks in the draft. There isn't another guy in the draft outside of Myles that even projects close to them. Sure one of those guys could...but then again there are guys that could be drafted in the middle rounds that have as much potential arguably. I'm saying to KNOW your getting a stud pass rusher in the draft....there is only 1 guy that projects to that. Heck he could wash out too but those other guys you can't say with the certainty that you can for Myles...so they are on a whole different level. Those are second tier talents in this draft that share more similarities with a 2nd and 3rd day player than with Myles honestly. All that said I don't think any of the guys he has mentioned are going to step in and start. They need a lot of polish and work. Thus guys like Simon and maybe Sheard are going to have to start for us and we develop their replacement. It's very hard to land a Von Miller in the draft unless you have high draft picks. Not impossible though and that is where we will have to invest in developing one....but guys like Simon and Sheard are possibly the best case scenarios for us in FA....you just aren't going to find a FA of elite quality landing on our door step.

All very good and valid points.  I completely agree!

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, cbear said:

Sign him.  I'll leave the free lansing part to Pags to deal with.  His strength afterall is relationship with players.

 

Would Pagano deal with it though? Or would he just clap his hands and tell him "nice try?"

[COLTS449]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

None of those guys are comparable to any of the superstars you mentioned....none have the ability that Von Miller and the others display. I'm even skeptical we take an edge rusher in the first just to be honest.

 

Tim Williams can be Von Miller esk. I think he's gonna be that good at getting after the QB

 

Taco Charlton can be a combo of Chandler Jones and JPP

 

Takk McKinley can be Tamba Hali meets Demarcus Ware

 

So yes they do.

[CheezyColt]

3 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Tim Williams can be Von Miller esk. I think he's gonna be that good at getting after the QB

 

Taco Charlton can be a combo of Chandler Jones and JPP

 

Takk McKinley can be Tamba Hali meets Demarcus Ware

 

So yes they do.

On the flip side:  They can just as easily be Werner, Mingo, and Dion Jordan....

 

Let's trust Ballard to follow his vision instead of saying he "better" draft my favorite players.  It'll make for a much smoother draft experience, lol.

[cbear]

19 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Would Pagano deal with it though? Or would he just clap his hands and tell him "nice try?"

 

I wouldn't take what you see on TV as indicative for what happens behind closed doors.

[Valpo2004]

2 hours ago, CheezyColt said:

Khalil Mack's and Von Miller's aren't just sitting at a bus stop waiting to be picked up.  No one in this free agent class was a Khalil Mack or Von Miller.  I want a dominant pass rusher too but people come here every year saying that we need to "at least" sign 3 of the top 4 free agents that year or we aren't trying hard enough and the front office just doesn't get it.  Silly.

 

Khalil Mack's and Von Miller's don't even make it to free agency usually.  Their current team usually backs up a Brink's truck to their house before they can make it to free agency.

 

And I agree with you on the signing of the top FA's.  Few fans look for value signings, they just look at their needs and say we need to sign the top 1 or 2 guys at those positions.  You know the same guys who will cost between 10M and 15M APY.  

 

Plus it ignores that you need to get the majority of your stars through the draft.  Buildling through FA just doesn't work.  

[Valpo2004]

59 minutes ago, dgambill said:

What we are saying is the chance that a guy like that is out there in this draft that will be the next Von Miller is very slim outside Myles Garrett. Else every year we would see Von Miller players show up on every team every year. They just don't exist. He is a singularity....once in every 4 or 5 years basically. Tom Brady is the same way. In all the drafts in the past 20 years why haven't their been more Tom Brady's??? You act as if there is one in every draft....there just isn't. If that was the case we should trade all our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rd picks to just load up on 5th and 6th rd guys...I mean if we have like 20 picks in those rounds we should be all certain we will find the next Tom Brady this year correct? Let's be real here.....if we were to take a bet in this draft that I could have Myles Garrett and I give you the whole field of EDGE rushers....which would have the best career I would still take Garrett and give you every single pass rusher in this draft. I like my chances to win that bet. Sure Garrett could wash out or get hurt but the odds are that his career will be better than any single other rusher in this draft based on everything we know about him and the rest of these guys. Now to take him vs every single rusher in the next 3 or 4...yeah there will probably be a guy that goes later that exceeds expectation and explodes onto the scene...but guys like Von Miller are rare and not often found outside the top 10....and when they are its probably more by accident than anything.

 

Russell Wilson in 2012

 

Dak Prescott in 2016

 

Also I will note that Mack has won 0 superbowls.

 

Von Miller has won 1 superbowl.  

 

You can find star pass rushers who can get the job done and you can win a title without finding "best in the NFL" pass rushers.  We do need a star on defense.  He doesn't need to be the best pass rusher in the NFL. 

[Rackeen305]

4 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Russell Wilson in 2012

 

Dak Prescott in 2016

 

Also I will note that Mack has won 0 superbowls.

 

Von Miller has won 1 superbowl.  

 

You can find star pass rushers who can get the job done and you can win a title without finding "best in the NFL" pass rushers.  We do need a star on defense.  He doesn't need to be the best pass rusher in the NFL. 

But I want a "best in the NFL" pass rusher. and so does 31 other teams. That's how you negate great passing offense. Weather its your front 4, front 7 or just 1 guy. that is how you dictate the game. 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Russell Wilson in 2012

 

Dak Prescott in 2016

 

Also I will note that Mack has won 0 superbowls.

 

Von Miller has won 1 superbowl.  

 

You can find star pass rushers who can get the job done and you can win a title without finding "best in the NFL" pass rushers.  We do need a star on defense.  He doesn't need to be the best pass rusher in the NFL. 

Those two guys are far and away NOT Tom Brady. Not even close. They are nice surprises and have been great so far but not Tom Brady. We are talking a once in a lifetime player here. Russell and Dak aren't that kind of special yet.

 

I agree with the second part. No one guy wins a SB...its a team...and Von had a great team around him...but certainly he was instrumental as Mack has been in getting Oakland to the playoffs. We don't have to have the best in the NFL pass rushers. We can do just fine if we can find some starting quality players. Most of the guys we've had starting wouldn't even make many other teams. If we can add some nice pieces we can be back in the playoffs with as good as our offense is. I think Chris is building this the right way. I'm excited.

[csmopar]

14 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

But I want a "best in the NFL" pass rusher. and so does 31 other teams. That's how you negate great passing offense. Weather its your front 4, front 7 or just 1 guy. that is how you dictate the game. 

just stop...  you're not finding one of those in FA, not this year.

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

But I want a "best in the NFL" pass rusher. and so does 31 other teams. That's how you negate great passing offense. Weather its your front 4, front 7 or just 1 guy. that is how you dictate the game. 

Of course everyone wants that. Fact is there are only a select few guys that are able to do it so not every team is going to have that type of player....there may only be 10-12 in the league period....so teams if they aren't fortunate to draft early when one comes into the league have to work hard to develop a guy...or hope to get lucky...but basically you have to scheme your defense to a championship. Look at NE last year...they had no premier pass rusher but in the SB when the time came they schemed a blitz and a sack fumble that turned the game around. I hope we find a great one ....but I'm pretty sure we will have to develop and scheme our way to qb pressure.

[Coltfreak]

1 hour ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Tim Williams can be Von Miller esk. I think he's gonna be that good at getting after the QB

 

Taco Charlton can be a combo of Chandler Jones and JPP

 

Takk McKinley can be Tamba Hali meets Demarcus Ware

 

So yes they do.

Guaranteed????

[NorthernBlue]

21 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Guaranteed????

OT but your sig is hilarious  

[Coltfreak]

Just now, NorthernBlue said:

OT but your sig is hilarious  

And true. HA!

[richard pallo]

He must be a tough negotiator.   Could he have attended Trump University?

[AustexColt]

The problem was Grigson overpaid and they underperformed. Let's hope Ballard does not overpay and the coaches are jumping up and down with the signing.

[csmopar]

8 minutes ago, AustexColt said:

The problem was Grigson overpaid and they underperformed. Let's hope Ballard does not overpay and the coaches are jumping up and down with the signing.

with what signing?

[BR-549]

where is this headed?

 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

5 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

where is this headed?

 

 

[csmopar]

7 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

where is this headed?

 

no clue