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Manning, Irsay & Kravitz Saga (Mega Merge)

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WSO Walk On

WSO

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I agree. I have not posted on a Colts forum in ages now actually but I have been lurking. Things have been a mess right?

IMO it's time to move on. Sorry but it is. This team was lucky to win 2 games after years of poor drafting and horrible coaching. Personally I think Luck is a stud and will be but maybe not right away. However, I don't understand for the life of me why people seem to think this team will have Peyton jump back on it and we are contenders again. This team is rebuilding unless I am totally missing out on all the signs here?

I also am one who was high on the Texans chances as soon as they hired Wade. With a healthy Schaub that was my AFC SB pick for this current season. They might be pretty scary for a few years or more. It is possibly their time with an elite D developing and a balanced elite offense with Schaub.

I think the writing has been on the wall for Peyton and I am fine with it. I appreciate all he has done in Indy but the future has to be taken into account here as well.

I have not seen you post in a very long time! I recall back on the old colts forum you had a ton of posts! Glad to see you are back and just in time for the drama :)

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WSO Walk On

WSO

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I am likely a minority of 1 here on this issue but here goes

I have lost respect for Manning as a result of this. The reason is this

Manning never ever ever talks to the media and yet, he chooses now to come out and talk about how hurt he is. For me, that smacks of publicist motivated behavior.

Irsay has been balancing multiple huge things in order to steer this franchise, hiring a GM, hiring a coach, talking to the media.........and BTW, the superbowl is in town, something that he spearheaded

For Irsay to be crucified by fans and the media for indicating he is dismayed by Peytons public statement ...... is wrong

During the time that Irsay has been steering this franchise, what has Manning been doing?.......rehabbing.........and apparently lifting his media black out.

I am sure it is difficult for him right now..........losing friends. But lets not forget for the past multiple years.........staffing was all geared around continuity for Peyton.

that was fine and that was right........but the time for that has unfortunately past.

Finally, I am sure it is hard to lose friends..........but I doubt that it as hard as being the one to fire them

Rant OFF

great post

Irsay has done everything right this offseason. From firing the Polians, hiring a new and a good GM, hiring a great, emotional coach, getting rid of most of the talentless coordinators. I have no idea how you can blame Irsay in this situation. Peyton went out and talked to Kravitz first. Peyton could have just sat down with Irsay and talked but he went to the media from what I have seen.

Irsay has done a great job since the Colts season ended and is putting the right pieces in the right places. He is doing what he can to protect the Colts and he is also showing that no player is above the Colts.

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pedrazla1 Walk On

pedrazla1

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I thought you only had to tell young children this but apparently Jim Irsay needs to hear this too...If you post something online (like this comment) then it goes out to the world and you can't take it back.

Tweeting and commenting to a reporter about keeping things in the family are NOT keeping it in the family.

Irsay needs to drop this "Jerry Jones of the Midwest" identity and handle this more professionally as the OWNER of the Colts.

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manningstheman Walk On

manningstheman

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The deal wasn't only for tax money to fund it. In 2004, the Colts and the City of Indianapolis agreed to construct the new stadium for the team (and Indiana Convention Center). It's being financed with funds raised jointly by the State of Indiana and the City of Indianapolis, with the Indianapolis Colts providing 100M. Marion County has raised taxes for food and beverage sales, auto excise taxes, innkeeper's taxes and admission taxes for its share of the costs. Meanwhile, a small increase in food and beverage taxes in the six "doughnut' counties around Marion and the sale of Colts license plates completes the total.

Keep in mind the Colts don't own the stadium or the Indiana Convention Center, which will be there for years to come, and the State/City use the facilites more than the Colts do. Also keep in mind during the first ten years the stadium and convention center are open they'll gross 2.5B. The Colts pay $250,000 annual rent there to the Capital Improvement Board (CIB).

Here's a partial list of events:


  • The Capital Improvement Board gets $250,000 in annual rent from the Colts.



  • The Colts are required to play all home games in the new stadium until 2034.


  • The Colts are forbidden from playing home games elsewhere or negotiating relocation.
  • Expansion of the Indiana Convention Center
  • Adds as many as 28 major conventions and trade shows
  • Creates 2,700 additional jobs
  • Produces as much as $165 million in new sales and economic activity per year
  • New Multi-Purpose Stadium
  • 40 year deal with the NCAA allowing for the hosting of the Men's and Women's Final Four, regional games, and 1st and 2nd round games
  • Major collegiate athletic events such as the Circle City Classic and IHSAA state football championship games
  • Makes Indianapolis eligible to bid for the chance to host a Super Bowl (potential economic impact of $286,000,000)
  • Like the existing RCA Dome, the Indiana Stadium will be an integral part of the Indiana Convention Center
  • Nearly 10,000 jobs created from both projects
  • 4,200 permanent jobs
  • 4,900 construction jobs
  • Estimated $2,250,000,000 added to the state and regional economy during the first 10 years both facilities are up and running
  • Keeps Indianapolis as one of the top convention and tradeshow destinations in America

Annual events

  • DCI World Championships
  • Bands of America Grand National Championships
  • Home games for the Indianapolis Colts
  • Circle City Classic
  • IHSAA Indiana State football championships
  • ISSMA band state finals

Notable Past events

  • NCAA Men's Basketball Regional Finals (April 2009)
  • NCAA Men's Basketball Final Four (April 2010)

Notable Future events

Big Ten Football Championship Game (2011)

  • Super Bowl XLVI (February 5, 2012)
  • NCAA Men's Basketball Final Four (April 2015)
  • NCAA Women's Basketball Final Four (2016)

The first games ever to be played at Lucas Oil Stadium occurred on August 22, 2008 and were part of the PeyBack Classic, featuring Indiana High School Football games played between Noblesville High School and Fishers High School in Game 1, followed by New Palestine High School and Whiteland Community High School in Game 2.

Lucas Oil Stadium and the city of Indianapolis made a bid to host Super Bowl XLVI in 2012. On May 20, 2008, the bid was successful, defeating Houston, Texas and Glendale, Arizona for that right. The stadium is also host to the annual NFL Scouting Combine in February.

In addition to professional football games, the stadium hosted the semifinal and final rounds of the Men's Final Four in 2010. Historically, Indianapolis has been a popular choice for the Final Four. The NCAA has their headquarters there, and the event comes on a five-year rotation. The Big Ten Conference will also play the inaugural Big Ten Football Championship Game at Lucas Oil Stadium on December 3, 2011.

The Indiana Marching Band State Finals was a major events for the city in Marching Band competitions, and the Circle City Classic that is an annual American football game featuring two historically black colleges/universities (HBCUs) that is held in October.

On September 13, 2008, country music singer Kenny Chesney held the first public concert at the stadium.

_________________

All of this ^ adds up to a sound investment. It ain't cheap to do this kind of business but it does pay.

Construction of LOS and the expansion of the Indiana Convention Center were handled as one project, so financing was lumped together. The budget for the stadium was 675M, and the convention center 275M, for a total of 950M. Financing and interest bring the total cost to about 1.8B. The debt is expected to be paid off in 2040.

Thanks for the back ground info on LOS. Its all gravy it sounds like.

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18Manning Walk On

18Manning

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I understand and accept the fact Peyton may not be back with Indianapolis. If you look at it logically, it doesn't make sense without some serious modification to his pay. But, I would expect someone within the organization (preferably Jim) would at least keep in touch with Peyton to some minimal degree. No specifics need to be discussed, just keep in touch. Peyton deserves some communication.

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JCPatriot Walk On

JCPatriot

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Peyton manning isn't perfect. He shouldn't of talked to a reporter instead of Irsay. Take ur prob to ur boss not to outsiders.

I don't know. I get the sense that a big part of what is bugging Manning is that he is not being treated like he is part of the team anymore. I don't think he is used to being on the outside looking in without any clue what is going on. How do you take the problem to your boss when you can't get your boss to talk to you. I think his interview was his way of saying to Irsay, "Hey, I'm still here. You wanna clue me in on what's going on?"

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vitoaf27 Walk On

vitoaf27

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Wrong. The Colts are forbidden to play their home games anywhere other than Indy or negotiate relocation through 2034. Period.

So tell me, if you're in Irsay's shoes and find out Manning is an unhealthy gamble on March 8th do you throw caution to the wind and spend tens of millions & mortgage the future while huge decades-long commitments hang in the balance? Or, do you make a smart business decision and part ways with Manning even though it's not what you wished for and not the way you'd have ever prefered things to go if you could author the story?

Of course there's the release Manning and resign him sometime between March 8th and the start of the season option if he truly wants to remain a Colt and also wants to keep the team's best interest in mind.

You've got me thinking.. what if they release him and sign him immediately after releasing him, but change his contract to resemble something like this: sign him to a vet min contract, with a ton of incentive bonuses. As in, pay him vet min but if he opens the season as the starting QB he gets $10 million and if he throws for 4000 yards and 25 TDs (which, if he's healthy, is what he would throw for in a normal season at least) he gets another $10 million.

Honestly, I think that's the best thing that could happen.

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FireJimCaldwell Walk On

FireJimCaldwell

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You've got me thinking.. what if they release him and sign him immediately after releasing him, but change his contract to resemble something like this: sign him to a vet min contract, with a ton of incentive bonuses. As in, pay him vet min but if he opens the season as the starting QB he gets $10 million and if he throws for 4000 yards and 25 TDs (which, if he's healthy, is what he would throw for in a normal season at least) he gets another $10 million.

Honestly, I think that's the best thing that could happen.

If he's released he will account for 10.4 million as a starting point.

Incentive deals are tricky. Some incentives are accounted for in the current cap #, while some are added after the fact, meaning after they are earned.

The Vet minimum would push his cap hit to 11.325. If your hypothetical were possible(and that is a big if), the two 10million additions would push it to 31.325, therefore it's not happening.

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PolkHigh33 Walk On

PolkHigh33

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I have lost respect for Manning as a result of this. The reason is this

Manning never ever ever talks to the media and yet, he chooses now to come out and talk about how hurt he is. For me, that smacks of publicist motivated behavior.

Irsay has been balancing multiple huge things in order to steer this franchise

Yeah, for example changing door locks. Maybe it really hurt Manning to see how the keys of the fired employees did not work anymore from the day of their firing. The thing with the keys is, of course, so much classier then someone who publicly says that he feels sorry for them and the way they were treated (yes, I know that some of you will say that this is business :scared: ). And, of course, it is much better to ask someone publicly to keep such kind of conversation in house...

I do like both Manning and Irsay. I just don't get it why they do not talk to each other personally - even if it is most likely clear to them that they can't decide anything right now (if Irsay said the truth with keeping a healthy Manning).

This has all developed in a direction that makes me feel sad :(

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vitoaf27 Walk On

vitoaf27

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If he's released he will account for 10.4 million as a starting point.

Incentive deals are tricky. Some incentives are accounted for in the current cap #, while some are added after the fact, meaning after they are earned.

The Vet minimum would push his cap hit to 11.325. If your hypothetical were possible(and that is a big if), the two 10million additions would push it to 31.325, therefore it's not happening.

If they were bonuses, which incentives are, couldn't they be prorated against the cap for the remainder of his contract, presumably a 4 year deal? That would make his cap hit in 2012 $16.325mil, which is totally manageable.

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WSO Walk On

WSO

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If they were bonuses, which incentives are, couldn't they be prorated against the cap for the remainder of his contract, presumably a 4 year deal? That would make his cap hit in 2012 $16.325mil, which is totally manageable.

Isnt his cap hit already pretty much 16m-17M? And how is that exactly manageable for 2012?

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Hoosier Walk On

Hoosier

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Phil Wilson has a great comment in an article on the situation this morning.

Until March 8, I hope Irsay and Manning settle their differences inside the Horseshoe. It means less for us to write about, but keeping this situation private means not tearing out the hearts of fans. The fans have been through enough already with the 2-14 season and the uncertainty of Manning’s future.

I couldn't agree more.

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Dan Walk On

Dan

Posted
Posted

JOINT STATEMENT FROM PEYTON MANNING AND JIM IRSAY*

We would like to dispel any misperception that there might be any hard feelings between us.

Since 1998, we have enjoyed a great relationship, based upon mutual respect and trust. We have always been able to talk and address matters we’ve faced over the years, not just as owner and player, but as friends. We had a long talk today and we want to assure Colts fans everywhere that we are both committed to maintaining our close relationship and to working together through any challenges the future may bring.

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Restored Practice Squad

Restored

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Posted

JOINT STATEMENT FROM PEYTON MANNING AND JIM IRSAY*

We would like to dispel any misperception that there might be any hard feelings between us.

Since 1998, we have enjoyed a great relationship, based upon mutual respect and trust. We have always been able to talk and address matters we’ve faced over the years, not just as owner and player, but as friends. We had a long talk today and we want to assure Colts fans everywhere that we are both committed to maintaining our close relationship and to working together through any challenges the future may bring.

Source?

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torgodog Walk On

torgodog

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Okay, I guess I'll add my two cents. This is just my speculation.

Kravitz, can write how the best owner and the best QB in NFL history need to make ammends. But everyone knows he's a little pot stirrer, loving this like a hog loves slop. But if Kravitz wasn't more concerned with annoiting himself the dire prophet of Manning's end, and getting ready for his next talking spot on ESPN, he might just stop and ask why all this drama now.

What I see is a tiff, a spat between close friends. Just Manning justifiably letting his disappointment known. I believe he feels responsible for so many close friends losing their jobs. He's a warrior, and he's probably told himself that if only he had been able to play part of the season then this would have been different. He could've still made it work. There was no reason for such deep changes.

This all started brewing with the firing of Jim Caldwell. I personally believe Peyton wanted to keep Caldwell and many of the staff, and I believe he had Irsay on his side. However, Grigson wasn't sold on Caldwell, but if Spags would have signed on as DC then Caldwell and others would have been spared. When Spags declined (after Irsay met with him personally) then Grigson dropped the hammer. I say this because my impression during the Caldwell press conference was that Grigson seemed to be talking to Irsay, still convincing him this was the right course of action. This would also explained the "missed message" and wringing hands gesture when asked about Manning. He knew Manning would be upset. Irsay was stuck between Manning and Grigson, and he sided with Grigson, though with great reluctance.

If the Ravens hadn't shanked that field goal then maybe Kravitz wouldn't have landed the Manning exclusive for another two weeks or so. Manning had to have been in the loop and known Pagano was the favored choice. And as someone who felt responsible and could have somehow done something to keep the jobs of those he liked, it was a way of letting his feelings known before Pagano brought in his own people.

But Irsay probably saw it as a veiled challenge to Grigson decision and that Irsay had taken Grigson's side.

I still believe Irsay and Manning are still best of bros. Like I said, it's just a tiff between dudes. I don't see this as a signal that this is the end of Manning's career as a Colt.

If two in the Colts organization need to sit down, it's Grigson who needs to call Manning and talk it out.

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cozy8 Walk On

cozy8

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That's ^ the biggest stretch since I saw Irsay compared to the late George Steinbrenner. What a joke.

So the team was largely built around Manning for over a decade and he's been paid at the top of his profession with enough money in the bank to secure his entire family 10,000 times over plus any charity work he wants to do. Now, with serious health concerns of one man bearing on the future of a commitment Jim Irsay has with the city of Indianapolis through 2034 together with thousands of dependant families and business owners.......not to mention fans everywhere.......you tell me what loyalty is.

Loyalty is not all about money. But you seem like the ilk that doesn't know that, unless it happens to you then you whine. Before PM, the Colts had hard time giving tickets away. Irsay didn't play one down and he made heck of lot more money than PM. How do you know PM's health status?! That's right you don't. I'm not your parent, look up the word in the dictionary, that way i won't have to tell you how loyalty is defined. IRSAY/JONES.

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mmcrazylikeafox Walk On

mmcrazylikeafox

Posted
Posted · Hidden by Coltssouth, January 27, 2012 - Insulting another member
Hidden by Coltssouth, January 27, 2012 - Insulting another member

Would you care to explain this post? I don't understand. As far as I know Mp Nation is a Colts fan. I have seen nothing to idicate any different.

Only because MPN is so argumentative towards anyone that is in favor of PM staying with the Colts. He responds in a confrontational way and seems in favor of ousting PM regardless of what he has done for Indianapolis, the Colts, and the fans not to mention Mr. Irsay himself! And I am not the only person who responded to MPN in this very forum. Also people are just giving their views on how they feel about losing PM and he tries to push his opposing views on anyone that he don't agree with. I like to state my views not reply negatively on everyone elses but don't appreciate when someone else forces their opinion on others. I am usually not confrontational but don't like bullies. Give your opinion just don't shove them down my throat, so to speak.
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mmcrazylikeafox Walk On

mmcrazylikeafox

Posted
Posted · Hidden by Coltssouth, January 27, 2012 - Personal argument
Hidden by Coltssouth, January 27, 2012 - Personal argument

Would you care to explain this post? I don't understand. As far as I know Mp Nation is a Colts fan. I have seen nothing to idicate any different.

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Sent Today, 09:41 AM

Listen man just because I don't agree with your Peyton manning oh I'm such a hardcore fan the sky is blue bull^chiz^ doesn't mean I'm not a fan. I've been a fan before and will be after. Get over yourself. Don't run your mouth over the Internet u look like a tool.

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everybodysgotone Walk On

everybodysgotone

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Posted

Loyalty is not all about money. But you seem like the ilk that doesn't know that, unless it happens to you then you whine. Before PM, the Colts had hard time giving tickets away. Irsay didn't play one down and he made heck of lot more money than PM. How do you know PM's health status?! That's right you don't. I'm not your parent, look up the word in the dictionary, that way i won't have to tell you how loyalty is defined. IRSAY/JONES.

I don't need any lessons, but thanks. My life experience including a decade in litigation, marriage, raising children, owning/operating a business, civic organizations, etc., has been quite enough. Have a nice day.

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everybodysgotone Walk On

everybodysgotone

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the back ground info on LOS. Its all gravy it sounds like.

No worries. I'd love to be out in Indy for the games, etc. I lived outside Baltimore as a kid though & know what it's like first hand....plus other sports events in other cities. Teams are always a great focal point for the communities.

You've got me thinking.. what if they release him and sign him immediately after releasing him, but change his contract to resemble something like this: sign him to a vet min contract, with a ton of incentive bonuses. As in, pay him vet min but if he opens the season as the starting QB he gets $10 million and if he throws for 4000 yards and 25 TDs (which, if he's healthy, is what he would throw for in a normal season at least) he gets another $10 million.

Honestly, I think that's the best thing that could happen.

Yep, that idea has been forwarded many times & similar ones in connection with Bob Sanders in the past. Not sure if it would be doable or not. Health issues are health issues......but if Manning were to heal up more between March 8th (if the report then is bad) and the start of the season could possibly make a difference. We'll see. It's all about timing and the circumstances. I honestly don't expect to see him play for the Colts in 2012, but let's hope I'm wrong and he can make a healthy return.

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LightninMax Walk On

LightninMax

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Owners are forced to pay a high minimum now according to the CBA. That's a pretty big plot hole in that story. But it does give the GM room to install a new team. Its possible but I think Pagano what's to try to utilize most of these FAs and Grigs is probably going to oblige.

I think 1 reason Pagano was hired is because he's very personable and Irsay wants a defensive schemer that could win over the vets that remain.

Yeah, the missing ingrediant for the simple fan like myself is the cap, contract, & cba info. Without that knowledge, I speculate as to the possibilties and always recognize the back drop is fitting into those parameters. I give some credence to there being some players later in their careers with winning a bigger personal priority than just money. Then again...

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cozy8 Walk On

cozy8

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Posted

I don't need any lessons, but thanks. My life experience including a decade in litigation, marriage, raising children, owning/operating a business, civic organizations, etc., has been quite enough. Have a nice day.

I never attempted to give you lessons. I said look it up! A decade of litigation says it all. My days are usually good.

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braveheartcolt Practice Squad

braveheartcolt

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Posted

I understand and accept the fact Peyton may not be back with Indianapolis. If you look at it logically, it doesn't make sense without some serious modification to his pay. But, I would expect someone within the organization (preferably Jim) would at least keep in touch with Peyton to some minimal degree. No specifics need to be discussed, just keep in touch. Peyton deserves some communication.

Communication is a two-way thing......

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i am yoda Walk On

i am yoda

Posted
Posted

Ripping? I don't agree it was anywhere near that. Not even close

Which part was ripping?

"He's a politician." Calling Peyton's personal integrity into question.

"There have been plenty of egg shells around this building scattered by him with his competitive desires to win. If someone's in the circle they have to go and all those sorts of things." Calling his personal integrity into question.

"There's not any sort of bad situation around here for healing or anything like that. That's not a correct perspective." He's not telling the truth.

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Nadine Ring of Honor

Nadine

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Posted

"He's a politician." Calling Peyton's personal integrity into question.

"There have been plenty of egg shells around this building scattered by him with his competitive desires to win. If someone's in the circle they have to go and all those sorts of things." Calling his personal integrity into question.

"There's not any sort of bad situation around here for healing or anything like that. That's not a correct perspective." He's not telling the truth.

I don't see that as ripping at all. Particularly not when you watch the video when he said that.

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