Rob Ryan?

[UKColt13]

Good lord no.

[Synthetic]

Media report turned out to be false.

 

 

Yahoo is trash. They've always been trash for news. 

 

 

But I'm delighted at the idea Colts fans wouldn't mind having him. You'd love him, trust me. You can also have Jarius Byrd too, knowing this forum goes nuts for him, even though he's been a bust for us ever since we signed him. 

[buccolts]

My vote goes for no Ryans, ever.

[krunk]

Well its official he is fired now according to NFL.com

[NewEra]

No

[jet1968]

I think Rex Ryan needs to hire Rob  Ryan

[indyspeed13]

/BBBBAAARRRRFFFFF

[jvan1973]

I would rather have buddy ryan, or even Nolan ryan

[cranium cramp]

Manusky hasn't been anything more than average at best for the Colts, but then again Grigson has put WAY more emphasis on building a powerhouse offense instead of defense.  Similar to NO, they pay their franchise players top dollars and let the defense hang out to dry.  Besides Cameron Jordan, who else does the Saints have on defense?  Byrd was a bad investment from the start, IMO so I wouldn't even consider him as a great player.

 

Why does Manusky continue to be let off the hook then?  Why isn't people calling for his job?  There is much more to analyzing than looking at the stat sheet.  Even though our defense doesn't look good on paper, doesn't mean it is all their fault.  Given the defenses stat sheet, there is no reason to keep him.  Personally I like GM but we could do better, not saying Rob would be better though, however we do need to change some things.

different issue for a different thread. This ain't about Manusky.

My vote would be no. Unless he wore one of Griff's actual game jerseys, that's the only way I want him as DC. That alone would keep the opposing team's QBs eyes off an entire side of the field.

[NewColtsFan]

Manusky hasn't been anything more than average at best for the Colts, but then again Grigson has put WAY more emphasis on building a powerhouse offense instead of defense.  Similar to NO, they pay their franchise players top dollars and let the defense hang out to dry.  Besides Cameron Jordan, who else does the Saints have on defense?  Byrd was a bad investment from the start, IMO so I wouldn't even consider him as a great player.

 

Why does Manusky continue to be let off the hook then?  Why isn't people calling for his job?  There is much more to analyzing than looking at the stat sheet.  Even though our defense doesn't look good on paper, doesn't mean it is all their fault.  Given the defenses stat sheet, there is no reason to keep him.  Personally I like GM but we could do better, not saying Rob would be better though, however we do need to change some things.

 

Because the people who understand football know that Manusky hasn't had much to work with in his 4-years here.

 

You yourself noted how Grigson has put more of his assets into offense and many of the assets that he's put to defense haven't worked out as hoped for.

 

Manusky may not be great,  but he's far better than average (as one poster here suggested...)    He's been making chicken salad out of chicken S.......       It's mostly smoke and mirrors.

 

Can your hire a better DC than Munusky?     Sure.     But not a lot.     He's been solid for the Colts.

[Gavin]

No, Get more talent on defense, Am I happy about everything I have seen Manusky try to do? No but many of the things he has tried to do has worked with other teams that run a similar scheme(such as putting a linebacker out on a Corner I always complain about....Why don't it work much? Linebacker is not heady or talented enough to bump the wr or get his hand in the passing lane..Not because of bad scheme alone)...Because of more talent

[Gavin]

Also no to Rob Ryan

[akcolt]

If we are trying to get better on D we should stay far away from Rob Ryan. He's not a very good DC. If he wants to coach linebackers again...no not even then

[teganslaw]

"No" to Rob Ryan coming to the Colts. Besides, Fleener doesn't need anymore competition in the hair department.

[throwing BBZ]

Kicked out of New Orleans! I remember when he got the boot from Dallas the forum wanted him could he find a home in Indy the 27th ranked defense in the league? I like to think a lot of New Orleans issues defensively were personnel related no one jumps out at you or scare teams to make them game plan. 

 

 Garbage idea

[aaron11]

people there is nothing wrong with the defense. stop looking at stats and actually watch the game

 

that is going a little too far.  the pass rush hasn't been good enough, starting corners get burned repeatadly, linebackers can't cover

[GwinnettColt]

Big issues for the D (in my opinion and I'm clearly no expert):

 

1) little to no pass rush

 

2) DB's play too loose and lose track of the WR, creating too much space.

 

3) those ....third downs.  D cannot get off the field, or so it seems.

[Superman]

Big issues for the D (in my opinion and I'm clearly no expert):

 

1) little to no pass rush

 

2) DB's play too loose and lose track of the WR, creating too much space.

 

3) those ....third downs.  D cannot get off the field, or so it seems.

 

We're not as bad as you'd think on third down. 38%, right about average, tied for 15th. The Lions and Ravens are at 44% and 45% respectively, which is near the worst in the league. Houston is all of a sudden at 27%, best in the league. Panthers, Bengals, Cardinals and Jets are all at 36%. 

 

Last year we finished at 33%, tied with the Bills for league best. It's obviously important, but it doesn't mean you have a good defense.

[Jason_]

Because the people who understand football know that Manusky hasn't had much to work with in his 4-years here.

 

You yourself noted how Grigson has put more of his assets into offense and many of the assets that he's put to defense haven't worked out as hoped for.

 

Manusky may not be great,  but he's far better than average (as one poster here suggested...)    He's been making chicken salad out of chicken S.......       It's mostly smoke and mirrors.

 

Can your hire a better DC than Munusky?     Sure.     But not a lot.     He's been solid for the Colts.

 

That and we also understand that the offense and special teams have been putting the defense in bad situations all season up until the Broncos game.  I agree with you about Manusky.  I don't think he needs to be replaced, but I do think he could be replaced.  So question for you....with Wisenhunt getting fired and the potential that they could have an entirely new coaching staff next year, would you consider replacing Manusky with Ray Horton, or keep Manusky?

[NewColtsFan]

That and we also understand that the offense and special teams have been putting the defense in bad situations all season up until the Broncos game.  I agree with you about Manusky.  I don't think he needs to be replaced, but I do think he could be replaced.  So question for you....with Wisenhunt getting fired and the potential that they could have an entirely new coaching staff next year, would you consider replacing Manusky with Ray Horton, or keep Manusky?

 

I like Horton and know he has a good reputation....     but, I'd have to do more homework.

 

Thinking out loud,  let me ask you this....   if we go shopping for a new DC,  do you want someone who can work with the personnel we have,  or do you want someone who might -- for example -- want to run a more traditional 4/3 and perhaps we have to go shopping for some different lineman and linebackers?

 

It might depend on which DC we're talking about....      but I'm asking.....  

 

Your thoughts?

[Jason_]

I like Horton and know he has a good reputation....     but, I'd have to do more homework.

 

Thinking out loud,  let me ask you this....   if we go shopping for a new DC,  do you want someone who can work with the personnel we have,  or do you want someone who might -- for example -- want to run a more traditional 4/3 and perhaps we have to go shopping for some different lineman and linebackers?

 

It might depend on which DC we're talking about....      but I'm asking.....  

 

Your thoughts?

 

I'd personally prefer to find someone who would run a similar 1-gap 3-4 scheme, or a 4-3 scheme that's similar enough that it could use the same personnel (like Cincinnati, Denver the past few years prior to Wade, etc).  I'd hate to see them have to start rebuilding the defense again.  Plus, I would prefer to find a coach who would adapt the scheme to fit the strength of the players.  that was an early concern of mine with Pagano.  When he got here, he began installing his hybrid 3-4 from the get go, even though the majority of the personnel was better suited for a 4-3 cover 2.   However, seeing the changes in the defense from last year to this year, going from using more 2 gap the past couple of years to using primarily 1 gap now due to different personnel make me believe that Pagano can and will adjust the scheme based on his personnel.  

 

 In regards to current personnel, I think Horton would be a very good fit as I believe he also runs a similar 1-gap 3-4 scheme.  I couldn't say for sure though whether he leans more towards man or zone coverage.  

[RockThatBlue]

Manusky >>> Rob Ryan.

And I'm not even a huge fan of Manusky. But he's way better than Rob Ryan.

[shakedownstreet]

but... but... rob ryan has SUCH flair!

 

[ColtStronger]

The Colts have more money spent on the defense than the offense.

That's only because the 2012 draft class isn't all resigned.  Add Luck's 25 Mil and Allen/Fleener's deal to the table then you will see what I mean.  Colt's recently have gotten offensive weapons in the draft which have a lower salary as a result.  However, they overpay ALOT of defensive players compared to their output!  One reason why Grigson needs to go, things are just not balanced!

[ColtStronger]

Lol...

 

You really went for it huh?  

I'm not necessarily saying we should go get Rob Ryan, but I don't think Manusky is who we need either.  Perhaps he would be better is all I'm really saying.  I think I previously said I'm sure there are more qualified candidates than both of them out there this off season.  Regardless, I don't think it would hurt to bring him in to fill Chud's old role in the meantime.  Really, what could it hurt?

[ColtStronger]

Because the people who understand football know that Manusky hasn't had much to work with in his 4-years here.

 

You yourself noted how Grigson has put more of his assets into offense and many of the assets that he's put to defense haven't worked out as hoped for.

 

Manusky may not be great,  but he's far better than average (as one poster here suggested...)    He's been making chicken salad out of chicken S.......       It's mostly smoke and mirrors.

 

Can your hire a better DC than Munusky?     Sure.     But not a lot.     He's been solid for the Colts.

I can respect that answer!  However same thing with Ryan as he hasn't had an all-star personnel to work with on defense.  I think the main problem is with Grigson, who controls who is brought in, how much money, and perhaps defensive personnel as well.  I guess it isn't fair to Manusky to show him the door unless he gets better players as a whole unit.  However, I'm saying bring in somebody (perhaps Ryan, or perhaps not), but somebody to fill Chud's old role to have a head start in the offseason, if the house is cleaned.  It's not gonna hurt

[crazycolt1]

I'm not necessarily saying we should go get Rob Ryan, but I don't think Manusky is who we need either.  Perhaps he would be better is all I'm really saying.  I think I previously said I'm sure there are more qualified candidates than both of them out there this off season.  Regardless, I don't think it would hurt to bring him in to fill Chud's old role in the meantime.  Really, what could it hurt?

What could it hurt? That's easy, It's Rob Ryan. He has been living in his fathers limelight his whole career. The Raider, Browns, Cowboys and now the Saints have all fired him. He has not lasted more than 2 years with the last three teams he has been with. How do you know that Manusky is not who the Colts need? That's your judgment after one game? He just had the Colts play their best game of the season yet you think he is not the one we need? He had a fantastic game plan against the top rated defense in the league.

[crazycolt1]

That's only because the 2012 draft class isn't all resigned.  Add Luck's 25 Mil and Allen/Fleener's deal to the table then you will see what I mean.  Colt's recently have gotten offensive weapons in the draft which have a lower salary as a result.  However, they overpay ALOT of defensive players compared to their output!  One reason why Grigson needs to go, things are just not balanced!

So Grigson's management of the cap has not been good? He started out with 38 million in dead cap money. He has signed team friendly contracts. You may complain about a lot of Grigson does or don't do but working the cap is not one of them.

[ColtStronger]

So Grigson's management of the cap has not been good? He started out with 38 million in dead cap money. He has signed team friendly contracts. You may complain about a lot of Grigson does or don't do but working the cap is not one of them.

Signing Cherilus and Landry were just 2 of his worst (every big name WR the last 4 years in FA),.  Not only did they under perform, but they're so bad that they're gone now and added to the dead cap.  Among other terrible #1 picks.  I don't care how many good things he's done, this alone is enough to get a GM fired!!  Plus their is more.

[crazycolt1]

Signing Cherilus and Landry were just 2 of his worst (every big name WR the last 4 years in FA),.  Not only did they under perform, but they're so bad that they're gone now and added to the dead cap.  Among other terrible #1 picks.  I don't care how many good things he's done, this alone is enough to get a GM fired!!  Plus their is more.

Nonsense. Every GM has hits and misses in free agents and draft picks. The Colts did not go three 11-5 seasons by Grigson being a bad GM. If you want to overlook that, that's on you. You don't care how many good things he's done? Really? I guess you think good GM's grow on trees?

[Dustin]

Much like Wade Phillips, Rob's defenses tend to be very good at the start and then steadily decline.

[Jason_]

We're not as bad as you'd think on third down. 38%, right about average, tied for 15th. The Lions and Ravens are at 44% and 45% respectively, which is near the worst in the league. Houston is all of a sudden at 27%, best in the league. Panthers, Bengals, Cardinals and Jets are all at 36%. 

 

Last year we finished at 33%, tied with the Bills for league best. It's obviously important, but it doesn't mean you have a good defense.

 

Just curious, what are your thoughts vis-a-vis Ray Horton?  Would you pursue him in the offseason if he became available, or stick with Manusky for now?

[Jason_]

Signing Cherilus and Landry were just 2 of his worst (every big name WR the last 4 years in FA),.  Not only did they under perform, but they're so bad that they're gone now and added to the dead cap.  Among other terrible #1 picks.  I don't care how many good things he's done, this alone is enough to get a GM fired!!  Plus their is more.

 

Landry was a bad signing, but to be fair, he'd had a pretty good year the year prior to being signed by the Colts.  Cherilus was overpaid, granted, but he was also rated as the best RT available that year.  Grigson went for what he believed to be the best player and did everything it took to get him here.  Isn't that what people WANT Grigson to do?  Now, regarding the injuries Cherilus had, I don't know how much information there was prior to him signing there that could have or should have led Grigson and co. to be concerned.

 

As for the other FA signings that were "so bad that they're gone now"...the majority of them were signed as stop-gap players that may or may not develop into something better...which incidentally Mike Adams, Erik Walden and Greg Toler (up until his struggles this year) DID actually work out.   But the bottom line is that Grigson had to put a defense on the field, and since pretty much all of the 2012 draft picks were spent on offense, he had to temporarily build the defense through Free Agency.  The only contracts that really hurt much at all were the Cherilus and Landry signings.  The other contracts were drawn up to be very team friendly with very minimal dead cap space.

 

You mentioned "every big name WR the last 4 years in FA" and to that I say, who freaking cares?  The only one of them that got big money was AJ.  Avery, DHB and Nicks didn't set the world on fire, but they were also each signed only to a 1 year contract and they weren't re-signed.  No dead cap.

 

"Among other terrible #1 picks."...Werner was a bad pick, but that's easy to say in hindsight.  Leading up to the draft, he was the most productive pass rusher available in the entire draft, and he was definitely the best pass rusher left on the board, based on the information they had at the time, when the Colts came up to pick.  I get that a lot of people wanted Rhodes...I liked Rhodes too.  But the only way to definitively say that Werner was a bad pick is with the benefit of hindsight.  Aside from that though, what other "terrible #1 picks"?  The only others are Luck and Dorsett.  Trading for Richardson was a poor use of a first round pick, I'll grant you that...but keep in mind that trade does not happen without Irsay's approvel...possibly even Irsay's encouragement.

[Superman]

Just curious, what are your thoughts vis-a-vis Ray Horton?  Would you pursue him in the offseason if he became available, or stick with Manusky for now?

 

I'm assuming he will be available, and I definitely wouldn't mind having him instead of Manusky. That being said, the defense hasn't had very good personnel, and that needs to change no matter who the coordinator is.

[Jason_]

I'm assuming he will be available, and I definitely wouldn't mind having him instead of Manusky. That being said, the defense hasn't had very good personnel, and that needs to change no matter who the coordinator is.

 

True, personnel definitely needs to continue getting better.  The biggest question would be, if we wanted to pursue Horton, how to go about it?  They can't really talk to Horton without having the position available, so they'd have to fire Manusky first.  But if they fire Manusky first, they're not guaranteed that they'll be able to land Horton.  They could offer Horton a positional coaching job, or even something like they did with Chud as far as an "Assistant to the HC" or something  like that with the understanding that he would be the next DC *wink*IF*wink* something were to happen with Manusky...and then once he's signed they could fire Manusky.  That'd be shady as hell though.  They could just be upfront with Greg..."hey, we kinda like what you've been doing, but we don't love it.  We'd like to go after Horton, but if we can't land him then we want you back."  Not sure that would fly though. lol

[Superman]

Now, regarding the injuries Cherilus had, I don't know how much information there was prior to him signing there that could have or should have led Grigson and co. to be concerned.

 

There was plenty of reason to be worried about Cherilus' knee. The operation he had typically indicates a degenerative knee condition, which is worse for a 300 pound athlete. And they gave him $15.5m guaranteed with a somewhat wacky structure. I don't think anyone expected Cherilus to break down in Year 2, but it was always hard to imagine him lasting the full five years. As it stands, the cap pain was spread out over four years, so it's not really hurting the team (we're about $9m under the 2015 cap). But it was still a bad investment, and I was uneasy about the long term implications from the beginning.

 

As a rule, anyone complaining about Colts contracts under Grigson and Bleum is off the mark. Colts contracts are very well structured and the value holds up well with comparable players. The Cherilus' structure is an outlier, even without the injury consideration. (It's also interesting how many people were eager to see the Colts spend $10m on Jairus Byrd, but will complain because Cherilus was 'the highest paid RT in history!!!!')

 

The Werner pick is about scouting, and when you think carefully about it, it might uncover a major foundational issue with Grigson and the entire staff. There wasn't any evidence that Werner was going to be an explosive pass rusher in the NFL. Yes, he had college production, but he didn't have the athletic traits that are typical of NFL pass rushers. And the film shows a player that had no refined pass rush skills. If they can look at a player like Werner and make him a first rounder, there might be a significant scouting issue. Everyone misses picks, including first rounders, so I'm not acting like the Werner pick means that Grigson and Co. simply can't scout. But, in a vacuum, that pick is a red flag, IMO. 

[Superman]

True, personnel definitely needs to continue getting better.  The biggest question would be, if we wanted to pursue Horton, how to go about it?  They can't really talk to Horton without having the position available, so they'd have to fire Manusky first.  But if they fire Manusky first, they're not guaranteed that they'll be able to land Horton.  They could offer Horton a positional coaching job, or even something like they did with Chud as far as an "Assistant to the HC" or something  like that with the understanding that he would be the next DC *wink*IF*wink* something were to happen with Manusky...and then once he's signed they could fire Manusky.  That'd be shady as hell though.  They could just be upfront with Greg..."hey, we kinda like what you've been doing, but we don't love it.  We'd like to go after Horton, but if we can't land him then we want you back."  Not sure that would fly though. lol

 

If Horton is released from his contract in the offseason, they can flirt with him undercover. That's dangerous, for obvious reasons, but that only matters if you don't close with him. I don't see why they wouldn't be able to get him, though. He was Chud's defensive coordinator in Cleveland, by the way. I'm sure they know some of the same people... winkwink

[Dustin]

(It's also interesting how many people were eager to see the Colts spend $10m on Jairus Byrd, but will complain because Cherilus was 'the highest paid RT in history!!!!')

You won't @ me tho

[Superman]

You won't @ me tho

 

We've done this dance a hundred times, sir.

 

But notice I said 'many people.' Wasn't really referring to anyone in particular. And I forgive you for wanting Jairus Byrd for $10m.

[chrisfarley]

Funny how the announcers during our Saints debacle were putting him up on a pedestal because of how he was engineering a masterpiece of a defensive game.  PPPPPFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTT !!!!!!!   Saints are terrible, and it was horrible listening to Pagano repeat over and over how great a team they were coming in and going out.  Lamey said the same thing as well as other coaches.