Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results

[aaron11]

He is being suspended for non cooperation.

this ^.  why show him any love on an appeal, when all he did was turn his nose at the process that was trying to get the report right the first time?  4 games is more than fair.

[aaron11]

It would be nice if you actually read any of those articles absolutely shredding Deflategate.

 

how are those reports more credible than the wells report? 

[southwest1]

So he's guilty because of a press conference .

You've got to be kidding me.

Remind me never to hire you as my lawyer.

1. I never claimed to practice law or even dream of pursuing of criminal law so you attempt to dis me fell on deaf ears. 2. My position on Brady's press conference has always been why is so casually indifferent about being accused of cheating? I never said this strange response meant that Tom should be banished forever from football & made to feel like a black sheep. He lied VL. It's not the crime of the century no, but it's like some asking what color is the sky & you go on endlessly about the texture of grass. Translation: Evasion vs directness leads to scrutiny & scrutiny leads to problems. 3. You are free to disagree with my POV & you are entitled to your own position, but not your own cherry picked facts. 

[Cynjin]

eh..if you thought about for a second and removed your bias,

Lol, again thanks for the laugh BM.

[Cynjin]

how are those reports more credible than the wells report?

Because they are Pro Patriots. Which means they have much more credibility than the Wells report.

[aaron11]

 

2) Science that doesn't really provide conclusive proof that a crime took place

 

that type of proof is not required for the nfl to make a suspension ruling.

[southwest1]

Yet your only evidence , apparently , is a press conference.

ROFL

It would be nice if you actually read any of those articles absolutely shredding Deflategate.

But you won't, because ignorance is bliss.

If I was your boss & I accused you of cheating at your job, would you smile & say "Gee boss, I don't think so?" I highly doubt that. I imagine you'd say something like with all due respect sir/Miss, this is a bunch of bull crap. How dare you assume I would do anything shady or illegal!

 

Why do so many Pats fans blindly ignore asking Brady what the hades kind of response was that?! What do you mean I don't think so?! Are you bleeping kidding me? I love how Pats fan come after Colts forum members instead of the guy who actually said it. It's a bait & switch technique to divert blame & re-define the debate topic. Translation: It means you have no counter argument to the original question asked & you're simply frustrated. Not at me, but your QB because if the blame falls squarely on Tom Brady all your convenient scapegoats disappear now. 

 

I find it fascinating VL how everyone else is blissfully ignorant except of course you. It's like that old joke about a senile old driver who yells frantically at the fast moving traffic when he's the one driving the wrong way not all the other drivers who are actually following the rules of the road & driving responsibly. 

[Shane Bond]

If I was your boss & I accused you of cheating at your job, would you smile & say "Gee boss, I don't think so?" I highly doubt that. I imagine you'd say something like with all due respect sir/Miss, this is a bunch of bull crap. How dare you assume I would do any shady or illegal!

 

Why do so many Pats fans blindly ignore asking Brady what the hades kind of response was that?! What do you mean I don't think so?! Are you bleeping kidding me? I love how Pats fan come after Colts forum members instead of the guy who actually said it. It's a bait & switch technique to divert blame & re-define the debate topic. Translation: It means you have no counter argument to the original question asked & you're simply frustrated. Not at me, but your QB because if the blame falls squarely on Tom Brady all your convenient scapegoats disappear now. 

 

I find it fascinating VL how everyone else is blissfully ignorant except of course you. It's like that old joke about a senile old driver who yells frantically at the fast moving traffic when he's the one driving the wrong way not all the other drivers who are actually following the rules of the road & driving responsibly. 

Are you still sticking with the "all of them are reasonable people" line SW1? ;)

[HOZER]

Remind me never to hire you as my lawyer.

Right......because if I was looking for a lawyer, I would troll sports forums to find one.......

[southwest1]

Are you still sticking with the "all of them are reasonable people" line SW1? ;)

You've got it Shane. I was clearly wrong here & you were right. You see what I did there VL. I admitted I made a mistake & was wrong. You see how easy & painless that was? Try it sometime.

 

It takes a lot of pressure off one's shoulders. Plus, lies have a way of multiplying or growing in intensity whereas the truth is like a breathe of fresh air which allows everyone to move on. 

[21isSuperman]

I like detective stories, so I'm really just trying to find a logical/plausible story line that ties together 2 things:

 

1) The deceptive behavior of McNally/the texts/other circumstantial evidence surrounding this that paints an incriminating picture

2) Science that doesn't really provide conclusive proof that a crime took place

 

My version of that is that McNally was armed with his own gauge (we know these guys have them since the Colts guy had one at the ready to gauge the intercepted ball). He gets the balls from the ref...we know in hindsight that Anderson set the balls to 12.5, but we also know there was apparently a history of the refs inflating balls above the specs that the Pats gave them (i.e. the Jets game incident).

 

So does it not make sense that McNally felt as though his "job" was to not take the ref's word for it that the balls were inflated to 12.5? Last time he took their word for it, Brady got over-inflated footballs and McNally got his butt chewed out the next day...soooo....to prevent an episode like that, you take the balls behind close doors, you quickly gauge them all...maybe you let air out if they are over 12.5...then you get them to Brady. In that scenario, McNally is still violating a rule that he felt the need to lie about, but at the end of the day the balls are getting in to the game at the 12.5 level they are supposed to be at which is why the halftime measurements don't really conclusively prove that anything happened.

While what you said is technically possible, it would still be a violation of the rules, as you said.  Plus, he can't just take air out of the balls, claim it's at 12.5 by his gauge, and hand the balls to Brady.  He would probably need ref/league approval for something like that.  But even if that were the case, why would Brady be so unwilling to co-operate?  Why wouldn't the Patriots simply say that's what happened? 

[HOZER]

The WP came out today with another article shredding Deflategate.

Didn't quite "shred" it, simply regurgitated the same slanted AEI garbage.

[HOZER]

What did The NFL/Goodell stand to benefit from a frame job? This whole debacle has been an embarrassment to the league and I can GUARANTEE that if they could have avoided this mess then they would have. If the Patriots didn't think they needed to once again cheat to win then this whole thing would have never happened and the golden boys rep wouldn't be FOREVER tarnished.

[21isSuperman]

Without a transcript of the discussion though, how can we assume that he was any less confident in his recollection of the gauge he used? It sounds to me like he was pretty darn confident and accurate when describing all the details

 

It's entirely plausible that the discussion went like this:

 

Wells: And which gauge did you use when measuring the Patriots' footballs before the game?

Anderson: My best recollection is that I used the logo-gauge.

Wells: Is it possible that you used the non-logo gauge?

Anderson: It's certainly possible.

 

That doesn't sound like a lack of confidence...and it certainly sounds like Anderson believes that it was 'more probable than not' that he used the logo gauge. It's just odd that Wells went out of his way to credit Anderson's ability to remember every other detail so well, but then just decided that Anderson was wrong about this one memory when he was apparently dead on about all the others. 

That lacks confidence, in my opinion.

 

What gauge did you use?

I believe I used the non-logo gauge.

Is it possible you used the other one?

It's certainly possible (because I didn't check)

 

On the other hand, something like

 

What was the pressure of the ball when you measured it?

12.1 PSI

Then what happened?

We inflated them to overshoot 12.5, then I deflated the balls to 12.5

Is it possible you misread the gauge?

No

 

By giving a definitive answer, Anderson shows confidence.  When he says it's possible he used a different gauge, he isn't very confident because he isn't sure.  Not only that, but what Anderson said fit what the rest of the officials said, so he probably isn't making stuff up

[Gramz]

And by the way, McNally may not have taken ANY air out of the balls. It's completely logical to think that having been burned once by the refs in the Jets game he was basically double checking to make sure the refs did what he asked them to do. Again - he's not allowed to do that, which is why he was deceptive when asked.

Now, how do we know that they were burned by the refs in a Jets game?  Because that was part of the conversation between McNally and Jastremski.  

 

Yet, the Patriots have answered to some of the other content of those texts and have said that the texts were "jocular" and "attempts at humor and exaggeration".  

 

And, for the most part, Patriot fans have jumped on that explanation.

 

So, my question is:

 

How can Patriot fans take the texts talking about being burnt by the refs as truth from two guys who were being "humorous and exaggerating" about everything else?

[dynasty13]

how are those reports more credible than the wells report?

They may not be...but it is certainly AS credible.

And here's been the problem since the beginning. The first report is the one people have clung to, regardless of anything that may come out later. When it was reported that the Patriots balls were all 2 lbs under, everyone threw their hands up and yelled 'Cheaters!!!'. Even though that information was wrong, the verdict was in. Then comes the Wells Report, and no matter how b.s the science was and therefor the conclusions assumed were, it came out first and that's what everyone took and ran with. Now we have reports debunking all that shoddy science, and people refuse to acknowledge it because again, minds were made up because the first thing they read helped form the narrative.

The whole thing reeks and it has since the beginning. Put us up there with the 9/11 conspiracy theorists if you want, but come on, even the harshest critic can admit that there is a 'leg to stand on' here for Patriots fans

[Hoosier]

Would Brady push this through court, something that he doesn't have to do, if he were guilty?

Would a person fight in court...to get out of trouble...if they were guilty..................

[Bad Morty]

While what you said is technically possible, it would still be a violation of the rules, as you said.  Plus, he can't just take air out of the balls, claim it's at 12.5 by his gauge, and hand the balls to Brady.  He would probably need ref/league approval for something like that.  But even if that were the case, why would Brady be so unwilling to co-operate?  Why wouldn't the Patriots simply say that's what happened? 

 

I don't disagree with any of this. Believe it or not, I actually find it not very plausible that a guy took a bag of footballs into a bathroom and then provided 3 different stories as to why he did that...so I'm pretty sure some violation took place. What DOESN'T make sense to me is that all of this was done to end up with 3 balls that measured above where the ideal gas law would predict and 6 others that are within 0.3 psi of that level, which is what you get in the WORST case scenario Wells lays out, and even that conclusion seems to have a lot of questions surrounding it. To me, if the end goal was "deflate those balls below the limit and get us an advantage", we aren't going to be sitting here today exchanging thousands of words about whose science to believe...the measurements at halftime are going to be unequivocal. So what really happened? And the thing that makes the most sense to me is that the guy was gauging balls to make sure the ref didn't over inflate them as happened in the Jets game, and perhaps letting some air out if the balls were reading high. At the end of the day, if their gauge is off from the official gauge, it's not going to be by a significant enough difference that anyone would notice. Heck - the ref himself brought 2 different gauges to the game that gave readings 0.4PSI different from one another.

[Shane Bond]

You've got it Shane. I was clearly wrong here & you were right. You see what I did there VL. I admitted I made a mistake & was wrong. You see how easy & painless that was? Try it sometime.

It takes a lot of pressure off one's shoulders. Plus, lies have a way of multiplying or growing in intensity whereas the truth is like a breathe of fresh air which allows everyone to move on.

You are a class act as always bro.

[Bad Morty]

 

Now, how do we know that they were burned by the refs in a Jets game?  Because that was part of the conversation between McNally and Jastremski.  

 

Yet, the Patriots have answered to some of the other content of those texts and have said that the texts were "jocular" and "attempts at humor and exaggeration".  

 

And, for the most part, Patriot fans have jumped on that explanation.

 

So, my question is:

 

How can Patriot fans take the texts talking about being burnt by the refs as truth from two guys who were being "humorous and exaggerating" about everything else?

 

I don't dismiss the text messages. Live I've now said many times, I think those guys violated a league rule. I just don't think they were doing what you believe they were doing. I'd need to see ball measurements that leave no doubt that there was a scheme to deflate balls to gain an advantage in order to believe that theory. You are telling me they did that, Wells is providing measurements of the balls at halftime that refute that.

[ViriLudant]

how are those reports more credible than the wells report?

Because they disprove the pseudo science of the Wells Report.

[ViriLudant]

Didn't quite "shred" it, simply regurgitated the same slanted AEI garbage.

Please explain why AEI or the WP would have a Pro Patriot slant.

Please, explain why they would want to defend New England.

Can't WAIT to hear this.

[jvan1973]

Please explain why AEI or the WP would have a Pro Patriot slant.

Please, explain why they would want to defend New England.

Can't WAIT to hear this.

Please explain why Goodell and the NFL would want to tarnish the current Superbowl champions.

Can't WAIT to hear this

[HOZER]

Please explain why AEI or the WP would have a Pro Patriot slant.

Please, explain why they would want to defend New England.

Can't WAIT to hear this.

AEI.....Read ruksaks post on page 11, it very accurately details AEI and their TARNISHED history.

WASHINTON POST........lets look at the writer of the article, Sally Jenkins. She seems to have a thing for sticking up for cheaters, found this gem on her wiki....

Lance Armstrong.........She responded to the demise of the American cyclist and subject of two of her books with a column entitled "Why I’m not angry at Lance Armstrong". A passage reads: "And I’m confused as to why using cortisone as an anti-inflammatory in a 2,000-mile race is cheating, and I wonder why putting your own blood back into your body is the crime of the century."[5] The books she wrote with Armstrong contain passionate doping denials which turned out to be lies in light of the USADA investigation.[4]

Can't wait for her to write a book about Brady....."I'm confused as to why directing people to deflate footballs is considered cheating?"

[HOZER]

Who got paid for exactly what, I'm not sure if any of this was mentioned. 

 

What I do know is that AEI has been caught trying to bribe "experts" to participate in certain studies in order to come to a desired conclusion. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute#Controversies

 

"According to the Guardian article, the AEI received $1.6 million in funding from ExxonMobil. The article further notes that former ExxonMobil CEO Lee R. Raymond is the vice-chairman of AEI's board of trustees."

 

"AEI had sent letters to scientists offering $10,000 plus travel expenses and additional payments, asking them to critique the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report."

 

I stand by my earlier statement. Research institutes are always looking for donations and grants, often from highly contentious lobbyists looking to dump some money on "experts" in order to champion their cause. 

 

AEI is a well known conservative group often taking money from conservative lobbyists looking to support conservative platforms. In short; They operate with a political agenda and this is problematic toward their bona fides as objective in regard to any case.

Here you go, save you some scrolling.

[21isSuperman]

I don't disagree with any of this. Believe it or not, I actually find it not very plausible that a guy took a bag of footballs into a bathroom and then provided 3 different stories as to why he did that...so I'm pretty sure some violation took place. What DOESN'T make sense to me is that all of this was done to end up with 3 balls that measured above where the ideal gas law would predict and 6 others that are within 0.3 psi of that level, which is what you get in the WORST case scenario Wells lays out, and even that conclusion seems to have a lot of questions surrounding it. To me, if the end goal was "deflate those balls below the limit and get us an advantage", we aren't going to be sitting here today exchanging thousands of words about whose science to believe...the measurements at halftime are going to be unequivocal. So what really happened? And the thing that makes the most sense to me is that the guy was gauging balls to make sure the ref didn't over inflate them as happened in the Jets game, and perhaps letting some air out if the balls were reading high. At the end of the day, if their gauge is off from the official gauge, it's not going to be by a significant enough difference that anyone would notice. Heck - the ref himself brought 2 different gauges to the game that gave readings 0.4PSI different from one another.

If that were the case, it would make sense.  But if the Pats were just making sure the refs didn't overinflate the balls, why wouldn't they just say that and be done with it?

 

Because they disprove the pseudo science of the Wells Report.

Pseudoscience?  Did you even read the Wells report?  What part of it is pseudoscience?

[ColtsBlueFL]

you must not have read the AEI report, the Washington Post article, or numerous other scientific critiques. Repeating "only Patriots Fans think this was a set-up" doesn't make it reality.

 

The report from AEI.... this AEI?

 

"In February 2007, The Guardian (UK) reported that AEI was offering scientists and economists $10,000 each, "to undermine a major climate change report" from the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). AEI asked for "articles that emphasise the shortcomings" of the IPCC report, which "is widely regarded as the most comprehensive review yet of climate change science." AEI visiting scholar Kenneth Green made the $10,000 offer "to scientists in Britain, the US and elsewhere," in a letter describing the IPCC as "resistant to reasonable criticism and dissent."^[19]"

 

Yeah, real trustworthy group.  So their science rebuttal will have real teeth...  Oh there's more...

 

"

The Guardian reported further that AEI "has received more than $1.6m from ExxonMobil, and more than 20 of its staff have worked as consultants to the Bush administration. Lee Raymond, a former head of ExxonMobil, is the vice-chairman of AEI's board of trustees," added The Guardian.^[19]

Since the time of that report, AEI has continued to receive money from Exxon Mobil — a total of at least $1,520,000.^[20]

 

AEI and the head of its energy studies department, Benjamin Zycher, have faced criticism for distorting scientific findings on global warming from Jeffrey Sachs, a leading environmental studies scholar, Columbia University professor, economist, and UN advisor. Zycher had once criticized Sachs for misconstruing the IPCC conclusions on global warming; however, Sachs responded, "It is Zycher who distorts, misrepresents, or simply ignores the IPCC conclusions."^[21]

Sachs went on to write:

"It is time for Zycher and, indeed, the American Enterprise Institute, to come clean. The AEI, despite its roster of distinguished academics, has failed to be constructive in the climate debate. It's time that the AEI puts forward a strategy to achieve the globally agreed objective of avoiding dangerous anthropogenic interference with the climate system."^[21]" "            

 

And there is this-

 

"In 1980, AEI for the sum of $25,000 produced a study in support of the tobacco industry titled, Cost-Benefit Analysis of Regulation: Consumer Products. The study was designed to counteract "social cost" arguments against smoking by broadening the social cost issue to include other consumer products such as alcohol and saccharin. The social cost arguments against smoking hold that smoking burdens society with additional costs from on-the-job absenteeism, medical costs, cleaning costs and fires.^[24] The report was part of the global tobacco industry's 1980s Social Costs/Social Values Project, carried out to refute emerging social cost arguments against smoking."

 

There's more but I digress...

[Bad Morty]

If that were the case, it would make sense.  But if the Pats were just making sure the refs didn't overinflate the balls, why wouldn't they just say that and be done with it?

 

There's a couple of reasons...

 

1) It being Superbowl week, they didn't want to risk the possible penalties that might come from admitting a violation

2) It's very possible that Brady had no idea they were doing this, if this is what they were doing. There's NO possibility that Brady wouldn't have been aware of a scheme to set those balls below the legal limit to get an advantage.

 

That's another reason why this idea of deflating balls to gain an advantage seems unrealistic. Let's say Brady really like the balls deflated by 2 lbs. But we know that they don't have access to the balls during road games. It just doesn't seem likely to me that he'd want to play half his games with a low-pressure ball and the other half with fully inflated ones. I would think it's far more likely that he'd want to use balls that were consistent from week to week. When you step back and really look at what the accusations are here versus the evidence, it doesn't really add up.

[amfootball]

Please explain why Goodell and the NFL would want to tarnish the current Superbowl champions.

Can't WAIT to hear this

Here is maybe the best explanation on this I have read:

 

When Wells was defending his report and findings that Tom Brady was at least “generally aware” of wrongdoing in a May conference call, he said, “All of this discussion that people in the league office wanted to put some type of hit on the most iconic player of the league, the real face of the league, doesn’t make any sense.” But here’s the counterpoint to Wells: It makes sense if the alternative was that the league would look like it didn’t know what it was doing in the first place by calling for a full-scale, $5 million investigation on something easily explained by science. So essentially it was bury Brady or bury themselves. Which brings me back to my original point from early May: “I’ve digested the 243-page Wells report multiple times, and with its bias and lack of fairness in certain areas, I truly can’t believe what the commissioner has done to the legacy and reputation of one of the greatest quarterbacks and ambassadors in the history of the game -- all over air pressure in a football and without definitive proof he had anything to do with it.” 

[Gramz]

I don't dismiss the text messages. Live I've now said many times, I think those guys violated a league rule. I just don't think they were doing what you believe they were doing. I'd need to see ball measurements that leave no doubt that there was a scheme to deflate balls to gain an advantage in order to believe that theory. You are telling me they did that, Wells is providing measurements of the balls at halftime that refute that.

So, if you don't dismiss the text messages; does that mean that you think the Patriots were full of snot with their rebuttals such as the "Deflator" referring to weight loss?

 

Also, it sounds to me like you think McNally and Jastremski were guilty of doing something . . . such as checking the footballs after inspection to be sure that they hadn't been inflated past Tom's preference.

 

If that's the case, why wouldn't the Patriots have found this out themselves when they talked to those employees?  A simple admission of what they had done would have gone a long way in putting all this to rest.

 

Or, do you think that McNally and Jastremski lied when questioned and that the Patriots bought their story?  If so, then many Patriot fans are directing their venom at the wrong targets.  

[Swan Ronson]

It seems like the only people who aren't biased are the Patriots fans. Perhaps they should have carried out the investigation.

[ColtsBlueFL]

False.

The research organization for the Wells Report was paid to slant their research, just as they did when they claimed that cigarettes do not contribute to lung cancer.

AEI was not paid by ANYONE.

 

AEI denied climate change and Global Warming, and offered payments to scientists to distort/refute science already publicized-

 

AEI also defended Big Tobacco and their Social Costs/Social Values project with their Cost-Benefit Analysis of Regulation: Consumer Products.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2007/feb/02/frontpagenews.climatechange

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Social_Costs/Social_Values_Project

 

AEI is supported by Koch brothers and donors for Big Business interests.

 

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/American_Enterprise_Institute

[ColtsBlueFL]

It seems like the only people who aren't biased are the Patriots fans. Perhaps they should have carried out the investigation.

 

They have. Patriot Fans Conclusions?  -

 

Brady is totally innocent.

Irsay is guilty of leaking and coaxing a Sting.

Mike Adams lied

Colts Equipment manager illegal released air from intercepted Patriots Ball to make it illegal

Colts overinflated their balls to make the Patriots balls appear to be illegal when they weren't

Ex Jets NFL Official want to bury the Patriots and willingly ran with Colts sting...

Walt Anderson used one gauge on Colts balls, other gauge on the Patriots balls

NFL should have known low temps were going to make it look like the Patriots balls were tampered with, but not the overinflated Colts balls.

McNally has to take a leak like everyone else.  The fact he stopped in to relieve himself with the game balls means nothing.

Ball boys take the game balls from the officials locker room without Ref's OK and take them to the field all of the time unattended. No big deal.

Colts framed the Pats and it's the Colts that deserve stiff punishment.

 

I'm surprised the AEI hasn't come out in Full support of the Pats Fan report---

 

[Archer]

You are missing quite a few things I think

 

1) The AEI report wasn't suggesting that the Colts balls were "overinflated", i.e. that they were suddenly over the legal limit...they are saying that they measured at levels which would far exceed their expected measurements having been out in the cold for the first half...that is because they were measured after they had warmed up in the room.

 

I didn't miss that point at all - it is exactly what I said.  And my counterpoint was that the Colts' balls were certainly measured immediately after the Pats' balls.  The average measurement times of the two teams' balls is maybe 5 minutes apart.  This notion that the Colt balls were measured at the end of halftime, whereas the Pat balls were measured at the beginning is poppycock.  The notion that the additional time the Colts' balls sat before measuring is the reason for the different inflation levels is only valid if that extra five minutes of warming can make a significant difference in air pressure.  I honestly don't know the answer to that, but I would guess that it takes longer than a 12-minute halftime for the balls to significantly warm in the locker room.  Kind of supported by the fact that there's not much difference between the 1st five Pat balls and the last five Pat balls to be measured (exact same average for Blakeman's guage and .10 higher average for the last five balls on other guage).

[dynasty13]

Please explain why Goodell and the NFL would want to tarnish the current Superbowl champions.

Can't WAIT to hear this

 

They didn't want to...but remember back to when the story first broke, there was a barrage of misinformation being leaked and opinions were being formed before any real information was even known. The court of public opinion ruled almost immediately and for the league to do nothing at a time when everyone was watching because they were still reeling from their handling of other scandals that season, it would have led to an uprising. I don't think the league was 'out to get' the Patriots from the start, but once all this went down the way it did, they had to do something and I do think Wells 'needed' to find something. 

 

Too many things just don't add up in the report, so of course Patriots fans are going to question. That's a natural reaction for the accused and we're not crazy for wanting things explained. You all may think some things are obvious and that there's 'something in the water up here', but the truth is your bias against the Patriots is just as strong as our bias for them. There is obviously still room for other possibilities, otherwise report after report and article after article would not still be coming out talking about the holes in the Wells Report. We have an appeal hearing coming up and until then we can continue to go back and forth as we have since January, but at this point Patriots' fans concerns are no less credible than your opinions....that's what happens when we are all looking for answers but an official report provides no proof one way or the other. 

[Bad Morty]

 

I didn't miss that point at all - it is exactly what I said.  And my counterpoint was that the Colts' balls were certainly measured immediately after the Pats' balls.  The average measurement times of the two teams' balls is maybe 5 minutes apart.  This notion that the Colt balls were measured at the end of halftime, whereas the Pat balls were measured at the beginning is poppycock.  The notion that the additional time the Colts' balls sat before measuring is the reason for the different inflation levels is only valid if that extra five minutes of warming can make a significant difference in air pressure.  I honestly don't know the answer to that, but I would guess that it takes longer than a 12-minute halftime for the balls to significantly warm in the locker room.  Kind of supported by the fact that there's not much difference between the 1st five Pat balls and the last five Pat balls to be measured (exact same average for Blakeman's guage and .10 higher average for the last five balls on other guage).

Poppycock? Read the Wells report yourself. All 11 Patriots balls were measured TWICE and their measurements logged from each gauge. Then they measured the Colts balls and ran out of time. They say it themselves.

[HOZER]

Here is maybe the best explanation on this I have read:

When Wells was defending his report and findings that Tom Brady was at least “generally aware” of wrongdoing in a May conference call, he said, “All of this discussion that people in the league office wanted to put some type of hit on the most iconic player of the league, the real face of the league, doesn’t make any sense.” But here’s the counterpoint to Wells: It makes sense if the alternative was that the league would look like it didn’t know what it was doing in the first place by calling for a full-scale, $5 million investigation on something easily explained by science. So essentially it was bury Brady or bury themselves. Which brings me back to my original point from early May: “I’ve digested the 243-page Wells report multiple times, and with its bias and lack of fairness in certain areas, I truly can’t believe what the commissioner has done to the legacy and reputation of one of the greatest quarterbacks and ambassadors in the history of the game -- all over air pressure in a football and without definitive proof he had anything to do with it.”

Still doesn't explain why the "sting operation" started.

[Bad Morty]

 

So, if you don't dismiss the text messages; does that mean that you think the Patriots were full of snot with their rebuttals such as the "Deflator" referring to weight loss?

 

Also, it sounds to me like you think McNally and Jastremski were guilty of doing something . . . such as checking the footballs after inspection to be sure that they hadn't been inflated past Tom's preference.

 

If that's the case, why wouldn't the Patriots have found this out themselves when they talked to those employees?  A simple admission of what they had done would have gone a long way in putting all this to rest.

 

Or, do you think that McNally and Jastremski lied when questioned and that the Patriots bought their story?  If so, then many Patriot fans are directing their venom at the wrong targets.  

 

I think it was a mistake for the Patriots to try to explain away the text messages. I think they should have just stuck with hammering the inconclusive science. Believe me - I don't at all disagree with the notion that the Patriots haven't helped themselves much in the way they've handled it. But two wrongs don't make a right either. I am convinced that the league saw halftime measurements of Patriots balls in the 11's and thought "A HA!! WE CAUGHT THEM RED HANDED!" without having one iota of a clue about the natural deflation rates of footballs in the cold. Had they gone into this knowing to expect readings of over a pound below the pre-game starting point based on the conditions, they would have seen the measurements, realized that whatever they thought happened didn't really happen and they (the league) would have simply come out and told us all about the ideal gas law, pointed out that both teams balls were tested at halftime, both teams balls were lower than where they started the game, and scientists confirmed that balls deflate naturally when moving from warm air to cold. Then it's over.

[dw49]

They have. Patriot Fans Conclusions?  -

 

Brady is totally innocent.

Irsay is guilty of leaking and coaxing a Sting.

Mike Adams lied

Colts Equipment manager illegal released air from intercepted Patriots Ball to make it illegal

Colts overinflated their balls to make the Patriots balls appear to be illegal when they weren't

Ex Jets NFL Official want to bury the Patriots and willingly ran with Colts sting...

Walt Anderson used one gauge on Colts balls, other gauge on the Patriots balls

NFL should have known low temps were going to make it look like the Patriots balls were tampered with, but not the overinflated Colts balls.

McNally has to take a leak like everyone else.  The fact he stopped in to relieve himself with the game balls means nothing.

Ball boys take the game balls from the officials locker room without Ref's OK and take them to the field all of the time unattended. No big deal.

Colts framed the Pats and it's the Colts that deserve stiff punishment.

 

I'm surprised the AEI hasn't come out in Full support of the Pats Fan report---

 

 

 

There's a poster that claimed at least 70% of the above was true in his various posts. He left for a while and now is back calling all Colt fans biased *s. This is why we have about 150 pages on this subject. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

They didn't want to...but remember back to when the story first broke, there was a barrage of misinformation being leaked and opinions were being formed before any real information was even known. The court of public opinion ruled almost immediately and for the league to do nothing at a time when everyone was watching because they were still reeling from their handling of other scandals that season, it would have led to an uprising. I don't think the league was 'out to get' the Patriots from the start, but once all this went down the way it did, they had to do something and I do think Wells 'needed' to find something. 

 

 

True. and you know what finding was expected and would have fulfilled the 'needed to find' part?  Two rogue ball boys possibly performed a deflation on their own accord.  Brady was not generally aware, and the organization not aware at all.

 

Most everyone in the world 'expected' just that.  That is why the Les Airington YouTube video came out 1/23/2015; well before Ted Well's report. So you think 'the angry mob out there (outside New England) forced Goodell to distort results so they could pretend to protect the integrity of the game.  Jolly good show.  pfffftttt.

 

Les Airington- ( NSFW!! )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF3TZrvkKvc