Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results

[Archer]

 

 

Poppycock? Read the Wells report yourself. All 11 Patriots balls were measured TWICE and their measurements logged from each gauge. Then they measured the Colts balls and ran out of time. They say it themselves.

 

 

It does say so in the Wells Report itself.  It says they set up in the officials room where both sets of balls were on a chair.  They measured the Pat balls, and then they measured the Colts' balls.  But to believe one set was warming and the other wasn't is incorrect - they were in the same location.  One guage showed that the Pats' first five balls had the exact same average measurement (to the hundredth) as the last five balls.  This debunks the theory that rapidly warming balls is the reason for the Pats much higher percentage of deflation.  We should have seen the measurements getting noticeably higher as refs progressed through the Pats' balls if that theory was correct...

[HOZER]

Here's an interesting read, come to find out one of the AEI Authors is a Greenfield Massachusetts native and the other a Harvard grad...interesting.

http://www.atlredline.com/hacks-desperately-try-to-disprove-deflategate-1711426528

[Bad Morty]

It does say so in the Wells Report itself.  It says they set up in the officials room where both sets of balls were on a chair.  They measured the Pat balls, and then they measured the Colts' balls.  But to believe one set was warming and the other wasn't is incorrect.  One guage showed that the Pats' first five balls had the exact same average measurement (to the hundredth) as the last five balls.  This debunks the theory that rapidly warming balls is the reason for the Pats much higher percentage of deflation.  We should have seen the measurements getting noticeably higher as refs progressed through the Pats' balls if that theory was correct...

Hmm...let's see...torn here...do I go with the analysis of a renowned think-tank, or do I go with "some guy on the internet who doesn't like the fact that the Wells report is getting shredded"? Tough call....

[Bad Morty]

Here's an interesting read, come to find out one of the AEI Authors is a Greenfield Massachusetts native and the other a Harvard grad...interesting.

http://www.atlredline.com/hacks-desperately-try-to-disprove-deflategate-1711426528

lol...yeah that's interesting alright. I think you figured it out! Clearly, this individual has decided to put his entire life's work on the line to release an analysis filled with lies because he's mad that a football player got suspended. That makes a TON of sense! Nice detective work there.

[lollygagger8]

This is hilarious. 

 

 

For a large lump some of cash, I'll disprove it right now as well. 

[HOZER]

lol...yeah that's interesting alright. I think you figured it out! Clearly, this individual has decided to put his entire life's work on the line to release an analysis filled with lies because he's mad that a football player got suspended. That makes a TON of sense! Nice detective work there.

About the same as certain individuals putting thier "legacies " on the line over a couple psi of air or some illegally obtained video, huh? Maybe there's something in the water over there?

[Archer]

Hmm...let's see...torn here...do I go with the analysis of a renowned think-tank, or do I go with "some guy on the internet who doesn't like the fact that the Wells report is getting shredded"? Tough call....

 

Ahhhh, I see you have no logical answer to the fact than the Pat measurements didn't get higher as your crackpot theory would suggest, so you use the logical fallacy of attacking the messenger.  Kind of what I expected... 

[dw49]

Hmm...let's see...torn here...do I go with the analysis of a renowned think-tank, or do I go with "some guy on the internet who doesn't like the fact that the Wells report is getting shredded"? Tough call....

 

 

Very nice side step Morty. What I asked before and will ask again. When did they start measuring the ball pressure and when did they stop measuring it. How long does it take to measure the pressure. This needs to be answered before this "amazing discovery" has the least bit of credibility. It could be that they didn't start measuring the PSI when half time started and it could be they stopped before half time was over. It does take a while to get in to the locker room and back out before the second half starts. You would also need to note the pressures of the last couple NE readings to the first couple Colt readings. To say that the Colts balls warmed for 10 minutes after the readings were completed on the NE balls is simply ridiculous. 

[Bad Morty]

Ahhhh, I see you have no logical answer to the fact than the Pat measurements didn't get higher as your crackpot theory would suggest, so you use the logical fallacy of attacking the messenger.  Kind of what I expected... 

no not really...I'm just tired of re-stating the actual findings of the AEI report for people who obviously aren't really interested in what's being said because it goes against the narrative they've chosen to believe.

[lollygagger8]

Keep reaching pats* fans, keep reaching. 

[Archer]

no not really...I'm just tired of re-stating the actual findings of the AEI report for people who obviously aren't really interested in what's being said because it goes against the narrative they've chosen to believe.

 

That's pretty funny, because you don't seem to be interested in the fact that the AEI report's findings don't make any sense, since it's against the narrative YOU choose to believe.

[Bad Morty]

Very nice side step Morty. What I asked before and will ask again. When did they start measuring the ball pressure and when did they stop measuring it. How long does it take to measure the pressure. This needs to be answered before this "amazing discovery" has the least bit of credibility. It could be that they didn't start measuring the PSI when half time started and it could be they stopped before half time was over. It does take a while to get in to the locker room and back out before the second half starts. You would also need to note the pressures of the last couple NE readings to the first couple Colt readings. To say that the Colts balls warmed for 10 minutes after the readings were completed on the NE balls is simply ridiculous. 

ah...so as you circle around the point here, look at exactly what you are saying...i.e. the measurements at half time were not exactly done in anything close to resembling a controlled scientific environment. In fact, you are correct in pointing out (as the AEI report did) that we have NO DATA on exactly when the tests were done on the balls, which makes drawing conclusions using the measurements pretty shaky...So let's recap...

 

1) We don't know for sure what gauge was used to measure the balls pre-game. Given the 2 possible gauges measured 0.4PSI differently, that's an unfortunate missing data point

2) We have no record of the timing of the ball measurements, in an environment were the ball pressure is changing by the minute

 

Those are the two most critical pieces of information we should have in order to do real solid scientific analysis!! And we don't have either of those things. Do you agree that if Anderson only had one gauge with him and all the balls were measured outside in a constant environment that we would have MUCH more conclusive data to go on when determining what happened? Let's see how honest you can be in answering that question.

 

If you are honest and you agree, then I'm sure you will understand that the variables that were introduced by having a possibility of a second gauge and a testing environment that wasn't stable makes drawing conclusions from the data open to much more assumption...

[Archer]

Very nice side step Morty. What I asked before and will ask again. When did they start measuring the ball pressure and when did they stop measuring it. How long does it take to measure the pressure. This needs to be answered before this "amazing discovery" has the least bit of credibility. It could be that they didn't start measuring the PSI when half time started and it could be they stopped before half time was over. It does take a while to get in to the locker room and back out before the second half starts. You would also need to note the pressures of the last couple NE readings to the first couple Colt readings. To say that the Colts balls warmed for 10 minutes after the readings were completed on the NE balls is simply ridiculous. 

 

Very good, D-Dub.  I did some averages on the two guages, and the low guage shows that the Pats' first five balls have the exact same average reading as the last five balls measured (to the hundredth).  The other guage shows the last five balls have a 0.10 higher average than the first five balls.  That shows that there was no significant warming affect during the measurement of the Pat balls.  To believe this think tank's theory, you have to believe that the warming affect kicked in at the exact moment the officials kicked over to the Colts' balls!  Ridiculous, especially since the Wells Report seems to suggest they measured the Colts' balls immediately after the Pat's balls...

[Bad Morty]

That's pretty funny, because you don't seem to be interested in the fact that the AEI report's findings don't make any sense, since it's against the narrative YOU choose to believe.

Well...I can tell  you that Paul Tagliabue found their research into Bountygate compelling enough to lift ALL of the suspensions that were handed out to players...so you can stew on that a bit.

[SilentHill]

Besides the fact that they have already been verified as a reliable outside source by the former NFL commissioner himself?

 

Former NFL commissioner? OK, why should I care what he thinks?

[Bad Morty]

Very good, D-Dub.  I did some averages on the two guages, and the low guage shows that the Pats' first five balls have the exact same average reading as the last five balls measured (to the hundredth).  The other guage shows the last five balls have a 0.10 higher average than the first five balls.  That shows that there was no significant warming affect during the measurement of the Pat balls.  To believe this think tank's theory, you have to believe that the warming affect kicked in at the exact moment the officials kicked over to the Colts' balls!  Ridiculous, especially since the Wells Report seems to suggest they measured the Colts' balls immediately after the Pat's balls...

Sorry, but no

 

The problem here is that ideally, measurements would have been taken simultaneously for all balls, outdoors, at the end of the half, and with the same gauge that was used before the game. Instead, the balls were taken inside and measured there, but not measured simultaneously. The pressure was checked twice for the Patriots balls (once with each gauge), after which the Patriots balls were reinflated and the Colts ball pressure was measured. Only 4 of the Colts balls (instead of all 12) were measured because halftime ended and the officials ran out of time. The fact that the officials ran out of time is highly material: it implies that the Colts balls were inside a warm room for almost the entire halftime before they were measured and thus had a chance to warm up.

 

I.e. Sequence of events at halftime:

 

1) Pats balls gauged and logged

2) Pats balls gauged and logged again

3) Pats balls reinflated

4) Colts balls gauged - time runs out after 4

[dynasty13]

Former NFL commissioner? OK, why should I care what he thinks?

 

Maybe because he was the independent arbitrator in that case...so, you know....his opinion was kind of relevant.

[Shane Bond]

Please explain why Goodell and the NFL would want to tarnish the current Superbowl champions.

Can't WAIT to hear this

You wont hear. He will disappear for weeks.

 

Will comeback, post few more crap and disappear.

[dw49]

ah...so as you circle around the point here, look at exactly what you are saying...i.e. the measurements at half time were not exactly done in anything close to resembling a controlled scientific environment. In fact, you are correct in pointing out (as the AEI report did) that we have NO DATA on exactly when the tests were done on the balls, which makes drawing conclusions using the measurements pretty shaky...So let's recap...

 

1) We don't know for sure what gauge was used to measure the balls pre-game. Given the 2 possible gauges measured 0.4PSI differently, that's an unfortunate missing data point

2) We have no record of the timing of the ball measurements, in an environment were the ball pressure is changing by the minute

 

Those are the two most critical pieces of information we should have in order to do real solid scientific analysis!! And we don't have either of those things. Do you agree that if Anderson only had one gauge with him and all the balls were measured outside in a constant environment that we would have MUCH more conclusive data to go on when determining what happened? Let's see how honest you can be in answering that question.

 

If you are honest and you agree, then I'm sure you will understand that the variables that were introduced by having a possibility of a second gauge and a testing environment that wasn't stable makes drawing conclusions from the data open to much more assumption...

 

 

No doubt there was not anything that resembled perfect protocol for measuring the PSI . Problem NE and Brady have is all the other damming evidence and the non compliance that the Wells commission found. The text messages , the trip to the pee room and Brady not letting his attorney look at his phone. That with the less than perfect work by guys that are not scientist is enough for most reasonable people to form an opinion that differs from yours. 

[Bad Morty]

You wont hear. He will disappear for weeks.

 

Will comeback, post few more crap and disappear.

The answer should be pretty obvious...When was the last time you heard someone talk about how badly Goodell bungled the Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson situations? The guy was barely treading water...I recall a Sunday Night Football game late in the season where Al Michaels came back from a break and basically read a script telling us what a great job Goodell was doing. It was embarrassing, and the guy had never felt so much heat in his entire life. And now *poof*! It's all gone! Like magic...funny how that worked out, eh?

[dynasty13]

You wont hear. He will disappear for weeks.

 

Will comeback, post few more crap and disappear.

 

I answered this already...Post 511

 

Not to mention...for someone that runs away with his tail tucked between his legs himself every time he is called out or proven wrong, you sure have a lot to say all of a sudden accusing people of 'hiding'.

[Bad Morty]

No doubt there was not anything that resembled perfect protocol for measuring the PSI . Problem NE and Brady have is all the other damming evidence and the non compliance that the Wells commission found. The text messages , the trip to the pee room and Brady not letting his attorney look at his phone. That with the less than perfect work by guys that are not scientist is enough for most reasonable people to form an opinion that differs from yours. 

if you bothered to read (objectively) what my opinion actually is, you'd find that all we disagree on is whether or not balls were being deflated pre-game in violation of the rules to gain an advantage, or being gauged pre game in violation of the rules to make sure the refs set the pressures correctly. My theory is supported by the science. Yours is not.

[dw49]

if you bothered to read (objectively) what my opinion actually is, you'd find that all we disagree on is whether or not balls were being deflated pre-game in violation of the rules to gain an advantage, or being gauged pre game in violation of the rules to make sure the refs set the pressures correctly. My theory is supported by the science. Yours is not.

 

 

I've read your nonsense that infers that Brady is innocent . It is not backed up by any science.

[Bad Morty]

I've read your nonsense that infers that Brady is innocent . It is not backed up by any science.

lol. Of course it is. Take the worst case Wells assumption that the non-logo gauge was used. Go look at the Pats halftime measurements on that gauge compared to the expected Ideal Gas Law bottom range of 11.3....I'll help you out - 3 of the balls were over 11.3, 6 more were within 0.2 - 0.3 of that number, 1 was within 0.4, and 1 was within 0.5. That's 10 of 11 balls within the range of error of Anderson's 2 gauges. So please don't insult your own intelligence by pretending that this data (which by the way, is questionable) shows evidence of any plan to gain an advantage by setting balls below the legal limit. that's utter nonsense. If they were gaming the system that way, the balls would be unequivocally and significantly lower than the ideal gas law would predict. It's disingenuous and betrays your obvious agenda to suggest otherwise. I'm the guy who is acknowledging that wrong-doing happened. You are making up stories.

[Cynjin]

I answered this already...Post 511

 

Not to mention...for someone that runs away with his tail tucked between his legs himself every time he is called out or proven wrong, you sure have a lot to say all of a sudden accusing people of 'hiding'.

Post 511?

That was a very lame explanation, filled with supposition, that only Pats fans would buy into.

[Shane Bond]

My stalker is alive and living large.

[dynasty13]

Post 511?

That was a very lame explanation, filled with supposition, that only Pats fans would buy into.

 

Agreeing that the NFL didn't want to tarnish the current Superbowl Champions, but saying that had to do something, is supposition that only a Pats fan would buy into?

 

The whole Wells Report is supposition, and every one of you clearly bought into every piece of that...

[Shane Bond]

Stop your pages of non sense until any one of you give a clear logical answer as to why those 2 employees were suspended. NFL didn't suspend them nor did they ask Pats to.

 

No one here will take you guys seriously. You guys are just a doormat for entertainment.

[dw49]

lol. Of course it is. Take the worst case Wells assumption that the non-logo gauge was used. Go look at the Pats halftime measurements on that gauge compared to the expected Ideal Gas Law bottom range of 11.3....I'll help you out - 3 of the balls were over 11.3, 6 more were within 0.2 - 0.3 of that number, 1 was within 0.4, and 1 was within 0.5. That's 10 of 11 balls within the range of error of Anderson's 2 gauges. So please don't insult your own intelligence by pretending that this data (which by the way, is questionable) shows evidence of any plan to gain an advantage by setting balls below the legal limit. that's utter nonsense. If they were gaming the system that way, the balls would be unequivocally and significantly lower than the ideal gas law would predict. It's disingenuous and betrays your obvious agenda to suggest otherwise. I'm the guy who is acknowledging that wrong-doing happened. You are making up stories.

 

How perfectly ridiculous. How about you PM Virdulant and talk about both your contentions that the Colts would be exposed for framing the Pats. 

[dw49]

Agreeing that the NFL didn't want to tarnish the current Superbowl Champions, but saying that had to do something, is supposition that only a Pats fan would buy into?

 

The whole Wells Report is supposition, and every one of you clearly bought into every piece of that...

 

 

You guys are hilarious. 

[dynasty13]

Stop your pages of non sense until any one of you give a clear logical answer as to why those 2 employees were suspended. NFL didn't suspend them nor did they ask Pats to.

 

No one here will take you guys seriously. You guys are just a doormat for entertainment.

 

You clearly can't read or you just repeatedly choose to ignore responses that directly answer your questions. Multiple times it has been said that it is entirely plausible that the Patriots suspended them after the text messages came to light and they were talking bad about Brady. If your boss heard you and another employee speaking about him the way McNally and Jastremsky were, you'd probably get suspended or fired too.

 

There's nothing illogical about that idea.

[Shane Bond]

Comic continues....

 

Mods - Please don't lock this thread. I am NOT missing David Letterman at all.

[Bad Morty]

How perfectly ridiculous. How about you PM Virdulant and talk about both your contentions that the Colts would be exposed for framing the Pats. 

Can you elaborate on why you find it ridiculous given the measurements of the balls don't support the notion that balls were deflated? Do you want to have an honest discussion or not? Tell me what leads you to believe that balls were deflated when they were measured at halftime and didn't show any conclusive evidence that they were deflated? Science is pretty cut and dry about this stuff. You make a claim, then you test the claim with measurements. If the measurements back up your claim, then your claim is accurate. If the measurements don't back up your claim, then your claim was false. I gave you the readings...so tell me what you find "ridiculous"? 

 

Oh and Shane-o...I've already acknowledged that I believe the 2 employees violated the rules by gauging balls pre-game. So that's why I think they were suspended.

[Bad Morty]

You clearly can't read or you just repeatedly choose to ignore responses that directly answer your questions. Multiple times it has been said that it is entirely plausible that the Patriots suspended them after the text messages came to light and they were talking bad about Brady. If your boss heard you and another employee speaking about him the way McNally and Jastremsky were, you'd probably get suspended or fired too.

 

There's nothing illogical about that idea.

yeah, but why did they suspend those guys?? Why won't you answer the question??

[Shane Bond]

Oh and Shane-o...I've already acknowledged that I believe the 2 employees violated the rules by gauging balls pre-game. So that's why I think they were suspended.

So you admit there is a violation. What is that you don't agree or like then?.

[Crush22]

Who knows...all I know is no balls were ever deflated. Sorry.

Your owner thinks otherwise.

[dynasty13]

So you admit there is a violation. What is that you don't agree or like then?.

Ok now I'm convinced you're just screwing with us. What have you been reading??? If this is the first post you've seen when Morty has admitted it then what are we even talking about here?

[dw49]

Can you elaborate on why you find it ridiculous given the measurements of the balls don't support the notion that balls were deflated? Do you want to have an honest discussion or not? Tell me what leads you to believe that balls were deflated when they were measured at halftime and didn't show any conclusive evidence that they were deflated? Science is pretty cut and dry about this stuff. You make a claim, then you test the claim with measurements. If the measurements back up your claim, then your claim is accurate. If the measurements don't back up your claim, then your claim was false. I gave you the readings...so tell me what you find "ridiculous"? 

 

Oh and Shane-o...I've already acknowledged that I believe the 2 employees violated the rules by gauging balls pre-game. So that's why I think they were suspended.

 

I don't pretend to be a scientist like some on this board. Can I prove my beliefs by scientific evidence.. no more than you can.

[Shane Bond]

Can you elaborate on why you find it ridiculous given the measurements of the balls don't support the notion that balls were deflated? Do you want to have an honest discussion or not? Tell me what leads you to believe that balls were deflated when they were measured at halftime and didn't show any conclusive evidence that they were deflated? Science is pretty cut and dry about this stuff. You make a claim, then you test the claim with measurements. If the measurements back up your claim, then your claim is accurate. If the measurements don't back up your claim, then your claim was false. I gave you the readings...so tell me what you find "ridiculous"? 

 

Oh and Shane-o...I've already acknowledged that I believe the 2 employees violated the rules by gauging balls pre-game. So that's why I think they were suspended.

Morty - Read post 552 and 549. Both are your comments.

 

One says balls were never deflated and another says it was pre game. What is the latest from you now?.

[dynasty13]

I don't pretend to be a scientist like some on this board. Can I prove my beliefs by scientific evidence.. no more than you can.

 

You can at least admit that the science allows for another explanation though...

 

We get it, you think all are guilty and that's fine. But refusing to even acknowledge another idea, one that science seems to prove is at least possible, is more akin to a child holding his hands over his ears and stomping his feet. It wont undermine your stance to say "Yes, I suppose that is possible"...