Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results

[Hoosier]

What I find entertaining is how voices that knew with absolute certitude that Robert Kraft was going to bring the league to its knees fell deathly silent when Kraft announced he would not appeal.

Now that the sting from that has worn off, there is absolute certitude that the Wells Report is going to be destroyed in court.

[Bad Morty]

What I find entertaining is how voices that knew with absolute certitude that Robert Kraft was going to bring the league to its knees fell deathly silent when Kraft announced he would not appeal.

Now that the sting from that has worn off, there is absolute certitude that the Wells Report is going to be destroyed in court.

It's been destroyed outside of court...

[21isSuperman]

The entire Wells Report is an example of what COULD have happened...yet you are all treating it as saying it DID happen.

 

Again...as long as another explanation is at all possible, that shows that nothing was proven. Like you said...COULD happen and DID happen are NOT the same thing...but somehow you all seem to know?

Could and could not.  The Wells report showed that they couldn't find any reasonable combination of environmental factors (eg. how long it took them to measure the pressure at halftime) that would provide an explanation for the pressure in the Pats' balls.  It's impossible to recreate the situation exactly, but from what I saw, they did a pretty good job controlling for the different factors

[Lawrence Owen]

It's been destroyed outside of court...

opinion by some pats fans.  But then again...those same pats fans have been saying the same thing over and over since it came out.  And other "faithful" fans have came right out and acknowledged the shame of what the team did and Brady in particular, and apologized to the world.  

If/when nothings changes after the appeal, and it becomes evident that Brady will not take it to a judicial court, you and others like you will still be crying foul. 

[Shane Bond]

It typically happens when comic relief turns into insanity.

You want to talk about argument?. Like how you were "guessing" why those employees were suspended?.

There he disappears again

[21isSuperman]

It's been destroyed outside of court...

Can you explain to me exactly what part of the Wells report you have a problem with?

[Bad Morty]

Can you explain to me exactly what part of the Wells report you have a problem with?

 

Sure...the biggest issue to me starts with the fact that they discounted Anderson's recollection that he used the logo gauge, a point which, if true, would exonerate the Pats completely based on the measurements they got at halftime. As the AEI report clearly points out, if you are going to objectively analyze data without knowing which of 2 possible gauges were used, then you need to run the regression models on 4 possible scenarios, each of which is equally likely (given that you are dismissing the information provided by the ref regarding which gauge was used) and you need to weight the outcomes of those 4 scenarios equally. The Wells report says it considered "all permutations"...it did not. There is no evidence or data provided that verifies this claim. So right off the bat, they are using incomplete data to rule out a scenario that didn't fit the narrative that balls were tampered with.

 

Additionally, though the Wells report claims (almost in passing) that it "considered" the effect of warming of the Colts balls during halftime on the readings of their balls, again no details are provided on what assumptions they used (and we know they HAD to use assumptions as the refs didn't indicate how long the balls sat in the room before measuring them) or on what impact their assumptions led to.

 

The essential claim of the Wells report is that A) The logo gauge was not the gauge that was used, and B) even if the logo gauge WAS used, it doesn't explain the relative difference between the Colts pressure change and the Pats pressure change, therefore it doesn't matter which gauge was used.

 

Their methods for arriving at that conclusion are not complete at best, dishonest at worst.

[southwest1]

The whole basis on which the Wells report came to the scientific conclusion that the balls had to have been artificially deflated hinged on the measurement of the Colts balls, which didn't show anywhere near the drop. I.e the logic was "The Pats balls read lower than the 12.5 they started at. Depending on which gauge was used, that reduction may be explainable by the ideal gas law (if you use the logo gauge that the ref says he used) or it may not be (if you use the other gauge). BUT, we don't think the gauge issue matters BECAUSE the Colts balls (4 of them that were measured) didn't deflate by anywhere near the same amount. Therefore, the Pats more probably than not tampered with the balls"

 

What this new report is saying is "hold on a sec...it's clear that the Colts balls that were used for comparison sat in a warm room for 15 minutes before they took the halftime measurements..now here is science that proves that those balls would have re-inflated significantly in that time frame, so you can't make the claim that the different rates of deflation is valid evidence"

Just what exactly was "The Deflator" doing in the bathroom with no operating urinal in there? Do you always question the integrity of zebras or just when PSI results don't suit your liking? 

 

Except this never happened.

Seriously, do people here ever look at primary evidence? Or do you just listen to what the media feeds you?

None of you read the report .

None of you have read the NY Times article that tore the Wells Report apart.

Mine have read the Pete number of national articles that have poked thousands of holes in the Wells Report.

Not sure why I returned, because my prediction on how people here would take the article came 100% true. No willingness to be objective, swallow BSPN hook , line, and sinker, etc.

 

I read every single word thank you very much VL including NE's rebuttal to the Wells Report. Are NE SB rings being taken away? No, come back to me when you have a legitimate grievance. Thank you. 

I love how Colt fans ignore two FACTS:

The Colts apparently cheated as well, as their balls were also below the legal limit.

Secondly, a Colts employee illegally used a needle on the ball on the sideline. That's a violation of the rule .

But hey, witch hunts are more fun.

No, the real question is: What's more harmful admitting that a minor violation was broken or trying to discredit the Wells Report on the same level as the Warren Commission & JFK's assassination? Translation: What's the real harm in acknowledging that Brady knew his footballs were deflated? Nothing in the longrun. Honestly, this has reached the level of absurdity now because Brady's still a 4 time SB Champion & he's still getting suspended in some capacity. Even if you prove your thesis about under inflated Colts footballs, it's a hallow victory. All Tom Brady has to say is I make a mistake & this scandal fades away into the moonlight VL. 

 

Someone else who doesn't understand facts. Awesome .

Did the witch float?

There are literally dozens of articles ripping the Wells Report apart. Scientists from various credible institutions, etc.

Versus a company that says that cigarettes don't contribute to lung cancer.

Yet all we have are Colt fans sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming "LA LA LA!"

Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe just maybe your QB is fallible & doesn't walk on water either? 

[BullsColtsFan1]

Just what exactly was "The Deflator" doing in the bathroom with no operating urinal in there? Do you always question the integrity of zebras or just when PSI results don't suit your liking? 

 

 

I read every single word thank you very much VL including NE's rebuttal to the Wells Report. Are NE SB rings being taken away? No, come back to me when you have a legitimate grievance. Thank you. 

No, the real question is: What's more harmful admitting that a minor violation was broken or trying to discredit the Wells Report on the same level as the Warren Commission & JFK's assassination? Translation: What's the real harm in acknowledging that Brady knew his footballs were deflated? Nothing in the longrun. Honestly, this has reached the level of absurdity now because Brady's still a 4 time SB Champion & he's still getting suspended in some capacity. Even if you prove your thesis about under inflated Colts footballs, it's a hallow victory. All Tom Brady has to say is I make a mistake & this scandal fades away into the moonlight VL. 

 

Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe just maybe your QB is fallible & doesn't walk on water either? 

Nice work on all your responses in your last post! I wouldn't have wasted that much time out of my life to respond to all that!  I respect you for that

[Yehoodi]

the reason Criminal cases are dealt with differently is because the U.S. Judicial system hands out the real punishment.  The Judicial system does not hand out punishments on NFL cases that involve how the game is played (unless someone murders another player on the field during a game...>.<) So the NFL has to be MORE strict with those type of offenses because they are the only ones handing out any punishment for them.

 

you mean like the warning only they gave to the Vikings. . .

[Bad Morty]

Just what exactly was "The Deflator" doing in the bathroom with no operating urinal in there? Do you always question the integrity of zebras or just when PSI results don't suit your liking? 

 

 

 

Let me ask you this...is it possible that the deflator went into the bathroom with a gauge, pinned the balls to make sure they were 12.5...maybe even let a little air out of a couple that were a bit high to get them down to 12.5, then brought the balls to the field? That's a violation and it should be penalized. But it would also explain why the science isn't showing conclusive evidence of the balls being deflated below legal limits. Just a thought.

[Yehoodi]

Could and could not.  The Wells report showed that they couldn't find any reasonable combination of environmental factors (eg. how long it took them to measure the pressure at halftime) that would provide an explanation for the pressure in the Pats' balls.  It's impossible to recreate the situation exactly, but from what I saw, they did a pretty good job controlling for the different factors

 

To fair 21isSuperman, if the Wells report found everything Anderson's said as credible, as one would expect from an independent eye, brings about 16 of the 22 pats balls measured within the explanation of the Idea Gas law and 10 out of 11 balls measured by Prioleau within the Ideal Gas Law.

[Lawrence Owen]

you mean like the warning only they gave to the Vikings. . .

Absolutely, The players nor Brass did not lie about it, there was no Failure to cooperate, Nor were any of the Brass or Players found to have ANY knowledge of it,...Video showed hand warmers being used by attendants, and the Vikings corrected the situation themselves. So the NFL warned them.

[southwest1]

Sure...the biggest issue to me starts with the fact that they discounted Anderson's recollection that he used the logo gauge, a point which, if true, would exonerate the Pats completely based on the measurements they got at halftime. As the AEI report clearly points out, if you are going to objectively analyze data without knowing which of 2 possible gauges were used, then you need to run the regression models on 4 possible scenarios, each of which is equally likely (given that you are dismissing the information provided by the ref regarding which gauge was used) and you need to weight the outcomes of those 4 scenarios equally. The Wells report says it considered "all permutations"...it did not. There is no evidence or data provided that verifies this claim. So right off the bat, they are using incomplete data to rule out a scenario that didn't fit the narrative that balls were tampered with.

 

Additionally, though the Wells report claims (almost in passing) that it "considered" the effect of warming of the Colts balls during halftime on the readings of their balls, again no details are provided on what assumptions they used (and we know they HAD to use assumptions as the refs didn't indicate how long the balls sat in the room before measuring them) or on what impact their assumptions led to.

 

The essential claim of the Wells report is that A) The logo gauge was not the gauge that was used, and B) even if the logo gauge WAS used, it doesn't explain the relative difference between the Colts pressure change and the Pats pressure change, therefore it doesn't matter which gauge was used.

 

Their methods for arriving at that conclusion are not complete at best, dishonest at worst.

Actually, in my opinion, the biggest argument in NE favor about a discrepancy between NE & INDY PSI measurements is that Walt Anderson or a member of his officiating crew never wrote down the numbers for record keeping purposes which makes the zebras look hasty, incompetent, & sloppy. I have a huge problem with that. Always document what you do in writing for chain of custody purposes & to protect yourself if an action gets called into question later. 

 

I respect NFL referees but that decision to not chronicle the results in a tangible form was really, really stupid. Learn from this incident Walt & never duplicate it again. Thank you. 

[csmopar]

Why is this not locked yet....this whole thread is full of ....win

[southwest1]

Nice work on all your responses in your last post! I wouldn't have wasted that much time out of my life to respond to all that!  I respect you for that

Thank you BCF1. All my NE friends are smart, funny, & reasonable people. [You know who you are & how much I respect all of you.] 

 

I get it. They're just defending their HOF QB. If the roles were reserved & my QB was under attack, I'd be doing the same darn thing. Brady's a cool guy & 1 hades of a gunslinger. I just would hope that Andrew Luck would say "You nailed me, what's my punishment, & move on." All this we've got your back Brady rhetoric can only be carried so far before people go "Okay, enough's enough. Take your medicine & get this over with already." 

 

Nice new ring BTW Tommy. Man, they seem to get bigger & bigger at every award ceremony don't they? LOL! 

 

[HOZER]

you mean like the warning only they gave to the Vikings. . .

This will save me some typing, Because Im one of those "lazy" fans.....

http://www.catscratchreader.com/2015/5/10/8581671/was-panthers-vikings-ball-warming-at-bad-as-deflate-gate

Not to mention, neither of those teams were repeat offenders.

[southwest1]

You know what I'd find refreshing? If a diehard NE fan would say this: "Brady's awareness of PSI air pressure is not a priority to me 1 way or another. I'm just really looking forward in seeing what we've got in Jimmy & if he shows signs of taking over the Foxboro mantle when Tom is done." 

 

I like this kid Garoppolo. Tell him to adopt a nickname please because I'm tired of having to google his last name that I cannot for the life of me spell correctly. Thanks Pats fans I appreciate it. 

[Yehoodi]

Absolutely, The players nor Brass did not lie about it, there was no Failure to cooperate, Nor were any of the Brass or Players found to have ANY knowledge of it,...Video showed hand warmers being used by attendants, and the Vikings corrected the situation themselves. So the NFL warned them.

 

Correction.  The team staff were warming balls by the heaters not hand warmers.  They did not stopped until told to do so by NFL officials.  It was the NFL officials who put a stop to the actions not the teams themselves.

 

As there was no investigation they was nothing to talk about, lie about or fail to cooperate.  They were caught in the act and told to stop and the NFL left it at that without going any further.  

 

Upon the finding of balls underinflated at halftime had the NFL simply warned the pats and inflated the balls, there too would of been no "lying", "failure" to cooperate, and so on.    

[Yehoodi]

This will save me some typing, Because Im one of those "lazy" fans.....

http://www.catscratchreader.com/2015/5/10/8581671/was-panthers-vikings-ball-warming-at-bad-as-deflate-gate

Not to mention, neither of those teams were repeat offenders.

 

Thanks for the poll of 3500 or so people.

 

I am sorry have the pats been found deflating balls before?   Please send me a link to that violation.

[Shane Bond]

Just what exactly was "The Deflator" doing in the bathroom with no operating urinal in there? Do you always question the integrity of zebras or just when PSI results don't suit your liking? 

 

 

I read every single word thank you very much VL including NE's rebuttal to the Wells Report. Are NE SB rings being taken away? No, come back to me when you have a legitimate grievance. Thank you. 

No, the real question is: What's more harmful admitting that a minor violation was broken or trying to discredit the Wells Report on the same level as the Warren Commission & JFK's assassination? Translation: What's the real harm in acknowledging that Brady knew his footballs were deflated? Nothing in the longrun. Honestly, this has reached the level of absurdity now because Brady's still a 4 time SB Champion & he's still getting suspended in some capacity. Even if you prove your thesis about under inflated Colts footballs, it's a hallow victory. All Tom Brady has to say is I make a mistake & this scandal fades away into the moonlight VL. 

 

Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe just maybe your QB is fallible & doesn't walk on water either? 

Once you talk logic, they disappear.

[Shane Bond]

Thank you BCF1. All my NE friends are smart, funny, & reasonable people. [You know who you are & how much I respect all of you.] 

 

Don't tell me you meant the bolded

[amfootball]

Thank you BCF1. All my NE friends are smart, funny, & reasonable people. [You know who you are & how much I respect all of you.] 

 

I get it. They're just defending their HOF QB. If the roles were reserved & my QB was under attack, I'd be doing the same darn thing. Brady's a cool guy & 1 hades of a gunslinger. I just would hope that Andrew Luck would say "You nailed me, what's my punishment, & move on." All this we've got your back Brady rhetoric can only be carried so far before people go "Okay, enough's enough. Take your medicine & get this over with already." 

 

Nice new ring BTW Tommy. Man, they seem to get bigger & bigger at every award ceremony don't they? LOL! 

 

Yeah SW those rings were major bling. They have been reported to be worth ~$90k, The ceremony seemed like a blast. Kraft spared no expense.

[southwest1]

Yeah SW those rings were major bling. They have been reported to be worth ~$90k, The ceremony seemed like a blast. Kraft spared no expense.

Robert Kraft is a darn nice guy. I applaud him immensely for agreeing to the league's loss of draft picks & the fine itself. Here's an honorable man that I will never viciously slam ever. Bob does take good care of his players & coaching staff. I'm happy for his franchise's decade plus long success. Like I always say, SW1 doesn't hate any team except those dreaded god forsaken Dallas Cowboys. 

 

I think they should rename the award ceremony the brass knuckles celebration since that's what they have become now a weapon as opposed to elegant jewelry. It's a nice ring but gargantuan in size & circumference. On the plus side, if your light burns out at your front door as you fumble around for your keys at night, you can still see though. Nice. 

 

Only joking! NE had an incredible year & they earned it. Just keep in mind 1 thing though: Chewbacca & the Colts are coming for some bling of our very own too.

 

Yeah I know, INDY has work to do & we need to verify that we can hang with your club at least. Touche. 

[HOZER]

Thanks for the poll of 3500 or so people.

I am sorry have the pats been found deflating balls before? Please send me a link to that violation.

Was posting for the article not the poll, but nice attempt to deflect. Coincidentally......that's 3,350 more people then showed up for the "free Brady" rally.

To answer your question, spygate. And save your reasoning for it being a different offense, not buying it. Both violated league rules, as well as the integrity of the game.

[ViriLudant]

Thank you BCF1. All my NE friends are smart, funny, & reasonable people. [You know who you are & how much I respect all of you.]

I get it. They're just defending their HOF QB. If the roles were reserved & my QB was under attack, I'd be doing the same darn thing. Brady's a cool guy & 1 hades of a gunslinger. I just would hope that Andrew Luck would say "You nailed me, what's my punishment, & move on." All this we've got your back Brady rhetoric can only be carried so far before people go "Okay, enough's enough. Take your medicine & get this over with already."

Nice new ring BTW Tommy. Man, they seem to get bigger & bigger at every award ceremony don't they? LOL!

So let me understand your logic.

Anderson didn't write anything down.

The Wells Report went by a DIFFERENT gauge than what Andrrson used.

But somehow the Patriots are guilty.

Wow.

[southwest1]

So let me understand your logic.

Anderson didn't write anything down.

The Wells Report went by a DIFFERENT gauge than what Andrrson used.

But somehow the Patriots are guilty.

Wow.

This "guilt" or non guilt you speak so incessantly about frankly doesn't rise to the level of either "a witch hunt" or some sort of symbolic spanish inquisition VL. Let's get real. 

 

Why are you so driven to exonerate Tom Brady over an air pressure violation? Is Tom Brady still a HOF QB? Yes. I fail to see why you are getting so worked about a minor infraction that your QB could clear up in under 2 minutes with another press conference. It's Goodell's fault, It's Colts GM Ryan Grigson's fault, it's referee Walt Anderson's fault...Do you see how crazy this line of thinking sounds? 

 

Even if Walt failed to write down the gauge readings for both team balls, I'm sure he had other refs there as witnesses to confirm what was done & what the PSI results were on the night of the AFC Championship Game. We don't drop an investigation & pardon the accused simply because protocol was not followed to the letter. Please...

[ViriLudant]

This "guilt" or non guilt you speak so incessantly about frankly doesn't rise to the level of either "a witch hunt" or some sort of symbolic spanish inquisition VL. Let's get real.

Why are you so driven to exonerate Tom Brady over an air pressure violation? Is Tom Brady still a HOF QB? Yes. I fail to see why you are getting so worked about a minor infraction that your QB could clear up in under 2 minutes with another press conference. It's Goodell's fault, It's Colts GM Ryan Grigson's fault, it's referee Walt Anderson's fault...Do you see how crazy this line of thinking sounds?

Even if Walt failed to write down the gauge readings for both team balls, I'm sure he had other refs there as witnesses to confirm what was done & what the PSI results were on the night of the AFC Championship Game. We don't drop an investigation & pardon the accused simply because protocol was not followed to the letter. Please...

Yet you're willing to convict despite the shredding of the Wells Report by MULTIPLE sources.

Because you're a Colts fan.

[Lawrence Owen]

Robert Kraft is a darn nice guy. I applaud him immensely for agreeing to the league's loss of draft picks & the fine itself. Here's an honorable man that I will never viciously slam ever. Bob does take good care of his players & coaching staff. I'm happy for his franchise's decade plus long success. Like I always say, SW1 doesn't hate any team except those dreaded god forsaken Dallas Cowboys. 

 

I think they should rename the award ceremony the brass knuckles celebration since that's what they have become now a weapon as opposed to elegant jewelry. It's a nice ring but gargantuan in size & circumference. On the plus side, if your light burns out at your front door as you fumble around for your keys at night, you can still see though. Nice. 

 

Only joking! NE had an incredible year & they earned it. Just keep in mind 1 thing though: Chewbacca & the Colts are coming for some bling of our very own too.

 

Yeah I know, INDY has work to do & we need to verify that we can hang with your club at least. Touche. 

I am going to agree here that Kraft though disagree's with the punishment and has voiced it, he has taken responsibility, and accepted the punishment.  And I have respect for that.

Also, yes i believe the past few years the Pats have owned the Colts, (deflategate or no) and have done so convincingly.  I am under the hopes this year will provide more of a game and I believe Indy has taken steps on both sides of the ball to do so. Week 6 is going to be a fun game to watch, because both teams have fire in them over it, and the entire world is going to tune into it.

[southwest1]

Yet you're willing to convict despite the shredding of the Wells Report by MULTIPLE sources.

Because you're a Colts fan.

Could I not just as easily say that you're willing to pardon Tommy because you're a Foxboro fan VL? 

 

Here's my real issue: Why is it so beyond the realm of possibility to think that Brady lied about air pressure? The longer this plausible deniability continues the dumber & more pathetic it becomes for all parties involved. Is it worth defending your QB's honor if we both agree that RB LeGarrette Blount kicked our caboose & demolished us fair & square? 

 

What's easier take the punishment & have this story disappear or keep making excuses & have deflate gate live in infamy? 

 

Also, I defend your organization a lot so let's not pretend I'm tar & feathering Mr. Brady alright. I deserve that much. It's like arguing over a ticket. You can request a reduced fine, but eventually just pay the piper & be done with it. 2 games in the end in my estimation really isn't that catastrophic to me. 

[21isSuperman]

Sure...the biggest issue to me starts with the fact that they discounted Anderson's recollection that he used the logo gauge, a point which, if true, would exonerate the Pats completely based on the measurements they got at halftime. As the AEI report clearly points out, if you are going to objectively analyze data without knowing which of 2 possible gauges were used, then you need to run the regression models on 4 possible scenarios, each of which is equally likely (given that you are dismissing the information provided by the ref regarding which gauge was used) and you need to weight the outcomes of those 4 scenarios equally. The Wells report says it considered "all permutations"...it did not. There is no evidence or data provided that verifies this claim. So right off the bat, they are using incomplete data to rule out a scenario that didn't fit the narrative that balls were tampered with.

 

Additionally, though the Wells report claims (almost in passing) that it "considered" the effect of warming of the Colts balls during halftime on the readings of their balls, again no details are provided on what assumptions they used (and we know they HAD to use assumptions as the refs didn't indicate how long the balls sat in the room before measuring them) or on what impact their assumptions led to.

 

The essential claim of the Wells report is that A) The logo gauge was not the gauge that was used, and B) even if the logo gauge WAS used, it doesn't explain the relative difference between the Colts pressure change and the Pats pressure change, therefore it doesn't matter which gauge was used.

 

Their methods for arriving at that conclusion are not complete at best, dishonest at worst.

Page 204 of the Wells report addresses the possibility of using the wrong gauge:

 

it has been shown that the Logo Gauge consistently reads higher than all other gauges analyzed in this investigation. As a result, it is very unlikely that the Logo Gauge would have read similarly to the gauges used by each team. Therefore, it is most likely that the gauge used by Walt Anderson prior to the game was the Non-Logo Gauge, which read similarly to the Master Gauge and other gauges tested during the investigation.

 

Of course, you can't say it for certain since Anderson doesn't remember and no one else can verify with 100% accuracy.  But given the parameters of their test and the results they found, it's most likely that the non-logo gauge was used, even if Anderson thinks he used the logo gauge.

 

If you read the section on Transient Analysis in the appendix of the Wells report, you will see that they did actually account for the time it would have taken for the refs to measure the balls and how temperature would have affected the readings.

 

From the appendix of the Wells report:

That there is a strong time dependence of the pressure inside the footballs upon return to the simulated locker room is of significant impact in the present investigation. it suggests the possibility that the lower pressures observed in the measurements of the Patriots footballs recorded at halftime could simply be due to the Patriots footballs being measured first, and that the higher pressures seen in the Colts footballs could be a result of being measured at a later time. Therefore, the main focus of the transient experiments was to determine if variation in measurement timing was sufficient to explain the variation in the observed differences in the average pressure drops between the teams, given the ranges of likely environmental factors present on Game Day and the realistic timing of measurements given the sequencing and duration of the various events known to have occurred at halftime

 

They are essentially saying what you're saying: the time at which the Colts balls were measured may have resulted in a different measurement.  Their conclusion?

 

Based on the above conclusions, although the relative “explainability” of the results from Game Day are dependent on which gauge was used by Walt Anderson prior to the game, given the most likely timing of events during halftime, the Patriots halftime measurements do not appear to be explained by the environmental factors tested, regardless of the gauge used

 

Once again, you can't say things for certain.  But given their testing, it doesn't look like the environment (eg. temperature of the room, time it took to measure Colts balls, etc.) doesn't have a significant effect.

 

To fair 21isSuperman, if the Wells report found everything Anderson's said as credible, as one would expect from an independent eye, brings about 16 of the 22 pats balls measured within the explanation of the Idea Gas law and 10 out of 11 balls measured by Prioleau within the Ideal Gas Law.

Actually, they didn't find that.

 

Page 224:

Based on information regarding actual conditions on the day of the AFC Championship Game, however, the application of the Ideal Gas Law (assuming equilibrium conditions) cannot account entirely for the pressure drops observed in the Patriots halftime measurements.  Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law.

[Yehoodi]

Was posting for the article not the poll, but nice attempt to deflect. Coincidentally......that's 3,350 more people then showed up for the "free Brady" rally.

To answer your question, spygate. And save your reasoning for it being a different offense, not buying it. Both violated league rules, as well as the integrity of the game.

 

So if two players from the pats next year are found to use PEDs would that be a third offense?

[HOZER]

So if two players from the pats next year are found to use PEDs would that be a third offense?

If there is a deliberate attempt to cover it up by player/staff members/team then yes of course.

[Yehoodi]

If there is a deliberate attempt to cover it up by player/staff members/team then yes of course.

 

So you are talking about a cover up?  The pats never covered up Spygate, they gave the NFL everything it asked, it just came down to a different of understanding if the rule meant just in game usage or not.  So how is a repeat offense? 

[Shane Bond]

So you are talking about a cover up? The pats never covered up Spygate, they gave the NFL everything it asked, it just came down to a different of understanding if the rule meant just in game usage or not. So how is a repeat offense?

Difference of understanding?. May be your team should have reached out to NFL to get a better understanding?.

Either way, difference of understanding doesn't mean it was not a violation. It was a violation and hence it is a repeat offense.

You are better than this. What is happening?.

[Flying Elvis]

Difference of understanding?. May be your team should have reached out to NFL to get a better understanding?.

Either way, difference of understanding doesn't mean it was not a violation. It was a violation and hence it is a repeat offense.

You are better than this. What is happening?.

Players get 32 games to wipe the slate clean. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/30/32-games-with-no-violations-helped-save-suh-from-suspension/

Spygate happened 8 years ago.The NFL is a joke.

[HOZER]

So you are talking about a cover up? The pats never covered up Spygate, they gave the NFL everything it asked, it just came down to a different of understanding if the rule meant just in game usage or not. So how is a repeat offense?

repeat offender (repeat offenders plural )A repeat offender is someone who commits the same sort of crime more than once. n-count

The same sort of crime being breaking league rules in order to gain an unfair advantage over the opponent. I can use "habitual offender" if that would make you feel better?

[ViriLudant]

Could I not just as easily say that you're willing to pardon Tommy because you're a Foxboro fan VL?

Here's my real issue: Why is it so beyond the realm of possibility to think that Brady lied about air pressure? The longer this plausible deniability continues the dumber & more pathetic it becomes for all parties involved. Is it worth defending your QB's honor if we both agree that RB LeGarrette Blount kicked our caboose & demolished us fair & square?

What's easier take the punishment & have this story disappear or keep making excuses & have deflate gate live in infamy?

Also, I defend your organization a lot so let's not pretend I'm tar & feathering Mr. Brady alright. I deserve that much. It's like arguing over a ticket. You can request a reduced fine, but eventually just pay the piper & be done with it. 2 games in the end in my estimation really isn't that catastrophic to me.

So what you're telling me is that I should ignore Brady's 15 years of being a stellar human being, a man who has always been completely honest with his peers and fans

Right.

Yep, I should believe that he lied, despite the ludicrous nature of the Wells Report.

[Yehoodi]

Page 204 of the Wells report addresses the possibility of using the wrong gauge:

 

it has been shown that the Logo Gauge consistently reads higher than all other gauges analyzed in this investigation. As a result, it is very unlikely that the Logo Gauge would have read similarly to the gauges used by each team. Therefore, it is most likely that the gauge used by Walt Anderson prior to the game was the Non-Logo Gauge, which read similarly to the Master Gauge and other gauges tested during the investigation.

 

 

Page 224:

Based on information regarding actual conditions on the day of the AFC Championship Game, however, the application of the Ideal Gas Law (assuming equilibrium conditions) cannot account entirely for the pressure drops observed in the Patriots halftime measurements.  Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law.

 

There is an inherent problem with your first paragraph.  It is my understanding that only Walt Anderson tested the balls at the start of the game, and therefore there is only one reading, specifically his readings.  As such, that gauge could be right on, off by a 1 psig in either direction and it does not matter what else was done later in the day or two months afterwards.  What his reading ended up as are what his readings ended up as when he tested the balls.  period.

 

If the balls were truly say 13.0 psig . . .

 

And his gauge was high by say .30, he would of say all the balls were 13.30 psig

If his gauge was low by say .4, he would of said that all of the balls were 12.6 psig

If his gauge was right on he would of said all of the balls were 13.0 psig

  

period.  Nothing done 2 minutes after his testing, two football quarters after his testing, or 4 months after his testing is going to change what gauge he used or what numbers he read, and most critically what the psig starting point was for all of the balls.  Once we find out which gauge he used, calibrate it to see how accurate it is and than take his readings, we can then get a starting point, which again, is NOT effected by anything that happened afterwards regardless of what someone wants to spin.  You can not change a starting point when it was actual act in history, and most specifically is an actual point in history - the amount of air in the balls in question at the start of the game.

 

We then take his recollections of the readings say 12.5 psig

 

If a gauge he used was right on then our starting point is 12.5 psig

If a gauge he used read low by say .3 then the starting point is 12.8 psig

if a gauge he used read high by 0.40 then the starting point is then 12.1 psig

 

We then do the same for the two refs at halftime, taking their readings and adjusting for gauge error, if any, for the gauges they used and we have the true reading of all of the balls.  So we end up with three sets of true readings, Anderson's, Blakeman's and Prioleau's, and those readings ONLY have to due with what numbers they can up with and which gauge they use and has nothing to with anything else.

 

Based on the Wells report numbers one would expect the pressure at 12.5 psig and 70 degrees to drop about 1.13 psig when the temp drops to 48 degrees.  If we start at 12.1 psig that number drops to about 1.09 psig.  So therefore if the pats balls were truly 12.1 psig (that is Walt used a gauge that read .4 high and he said he got 12.5) in the refs locker room pregame, then based on the Ideal Gas Law the pressure of those balls would be at around 11.01 psig. (12.1 - 1.09= 11.01) at 48 degrees game time temp.

 

Once we know that the 11.01 psig is the expected result we then look to the half time measurements and take into considerations the same adjustments, if any, for the gauges used by the respective refs.  If one of them used a gauge that read true then we can use what they record as being the true value of the psig of the balls.   With said if either of the ref at halftime used a true gauge then 10 of 11 Prioleau's readings are at or above this point (with one at 11.00) and 6 of 11 Blakeman's balls are above this point. 

 

And we can not change the above regardless of how one might want to spin it pro or anti patriot.

 

In the end of the day what gauges were used were the gauges used and what was in the balls for air was in the balls for air, and that does not change regardless of how you and I want to spin things.

[Yehoodi]

Difference of understanding?. May be your team should have reached out to NFL to get a better understanding?.

Either way, difference of understanding doesn't mean it was not a violation. It was a violation and hence it is a repeat offense.

You are better than this. What is happening?.

 

That has always been the issue.  And if you are not violating the rule in your mind why do you need to ask for an explanation?